Septicaemia Orandas?

Oh great news! I like your plans
I do think it's all Costia and secondary infections afflicting your tanks, so Paraguard is your best med treatment for fish that are not too weak FYI.

I think so too.

Just noticed that the worse afflicted pearlscale appears to have dropsy. Kicking myself for not noticing earlier!

Just transferred her to the 20l with the epsom and the kanaplex/furan-2...


Hoping I catch a break soon...

 

it is so hard to tell if a pearlscale has dropsy.

 

it is so hard to tell if a pearlscale has dropsy.

I think she does. Too hard to take a pic but her scales appear individually swollen and filled with fluid. I compared her to my other pearlscale. I think she has dropsy

I can only think costia/fin rot led to ich which led to dropsy

 

Costia (ichtyobodo) is a parasite, just like is, ich(thyophthirius) is, you knew that right? Just wanted to make sure haha. It looked like you were classifying it as bacterial like fin rot for a minute. It does have a different lifestyle than ich(thyophthirius) though. It only takes 10-12 hours for the Costia parasite to complete it at a temp of 25°C. If your temperature is higher, it will complete faster, but will not survive temps higher than 30°C. Good to know. It can also remain dormant in very cold water (below 8°C) in a cyst state, and transform back to its normal state when it warms up, at which time it only has a short time to find a host (fish), again, temperature dependent. I have even read it can resist drying out in this cyst state, so nets, sponges, tubes ect have to be rinsed in hot water. A method to ensure...let's say, a planted tank...is safe, you would remove all fish and leave it fishless and treat the fish in QT. The latter is mostly a saltwater aquarist's method, but good to keep in mind. All fyI to help beat this

 

I think so too.

Just noticed that the worse afflicted pearlscale appears to have dropsy. Kicking myself for not noticing earlier!

Just transferred her to the 20l with the epsom and the kanaplex/furan-2...


Hoping I catch a break soon...

Be careful with Kanaplex as it is a heavy hitter and rather stressful on the kidneys which could actually worsen the effects of fluid retention. Epson salt will help draw out some of the fluid, but not much.

 

Costia (ichtyobodo) is a parasite, just like is, ich(thyophthirius) is, you knew that right? Just wanted to make sure haha. It looked like you were classifying it as bacterial like fin rot for a minute. It does have a different lifestyle than ich(thyophthirius) though. It only takes 10-12 hours for the Costia parasite to complete it at a temp of 25°C. If your temperature is higher, it will complete faster, but will not survive temps higher than 30°C. Good to know. It can also remain dormant in very cold water (below 8°C) in a cyst state, and transform back to its normal state when it warms up, at which time it only has a short time to find a host (fish), again, temperature dependent. I have even read it can resist drying out in this cyst state, so nets, sponges, tubes ect have to be rinsed in hot water. A method to ensure...let's say, a planted tank...is safe, you would remove all fish and leave it fishless and treat the fish in QT. The latter is mostly a saltwater aquarist's method, but good to keep in mind. All fyI to help beat this

Thank you so much for all your advice.

I have increased the temps of the 90g and 20 gallon plus the Qts to 30. Dosing paraguard and feeding medicated food on off to kill of any internal bacteria.

Yes I was lumping the costia with the other ailments my fish have.

I'm sad to say I lost my sickest pearlscale to dropsy. I think the ich /costia compromised her immune system and dropsy was able to take hold.

I did everything to try and help her but it was too late.

It seems my black oranda also has costia now coupled with ich and fin rot.

He has a milk shroud to him that looks like it's flaking. Quite lethargic but eats and swims occasionally. He is my favourite fish so I'm praying he hangs in there.


Focusing on beating this thing now.

Do you think a Uv steriliser might also help my situation?

Thank you for being patient and answering all my noobie questions

Be careful with Kanaplex as it is a heavy hitter and rather stressful on the kidneys which could actually worsen the effects of fluid retention. Epson salt will help draw out some of the fluid, but not much.

I will be

Only using kanaplex as a last resort for the sickest fish. I don't have any other effective antI internal med on me except the kanaplex.

Will not exceed recommend dose and keeping close eye on all fish.

 

I'm so sorry you lost your pearlscale You did and are doing what you can. The temperature is high though for goldfish, is it not? I know I said 30°C kills the parasite, but I meant it for a fishless tank. Hope the temp is ok short term then, i'm really not too familiar with treating goldfish in particular....At 25°C, it takes 10-12 days to complete it's lifecycle. In that time, you kill it with Paraguard.

Unfortunately, since you were moving fish between tanks, I think all your fish may have Costia, so I would treat everyone with Paraguard. And we will hope there are no more secondary infections but if there is, you can treat with MB baths which is not an antibiotic.

Agreed with Rivieraneo, it's important to keep in mind the cause of dropsy could be due to kidney failure/damage due to overuse of Kanaplex, and not actually a bacterial infection. In that case, all you can do hope to help the fish expel the excess fluid buildup while treating the original affliction.

I'm really not sure about a UV sterilizer, I don't have one, but I've been seriously considering one, especially if you have only one main tank. FYI, I know that the flow through the sterilizer shouldn't be too strong, less than 450gph and rating should be at a minimum of 3 watts/10 gallons to deal with ich.

Many of those filters with integrated UV sterilizers have too great of a flow rate for the UV to be effective against ich.

Be careful with Kanaplex as it is a heavy hitter and rather stressful on the kidneys which could actually worsen the effects of fluid retention. Epson salt will help draw out some of the fluid, but not much.

Do you know of anything else she can do for it?

Still following with you and hoping for the best!

 

I'm so sorry you lost your pearlscale You did and are doing what you can. The temperature is high though for goldfish, is it not? I know I said 30°C kills the parasite, but I meant it for a fishless tank. Hope the temp is ok short term then, i'm really not too familiar with treating goldfish in particular....At 25°C, it takes 10-12 days to complete it's lifecycle. In that time, you kill it with Paraguard.

Unfortunately, since you were moving fish between tanks, I think all your fish may have Costia, so I would treat everyone with Paraguard. And we will hope there are no more secondary infections but if there is, you can treat with MB baths which is not an antibiotic.

Agreed with Rivieraneo, it's important to keep in mind the cause of dropsy could be due to kidney failure/damage due to overuse of Kanaplex, and not actually a bacterial infection. In that case, all you can do hope to help the fish expel the excess fluid buildup while treating the original affliction.

I'm really not sure about a UV sterilizer, I don't have one, but I've been seriously considering one, especially if you have only one main tank. FYI, I know that the flow through the sterilizer shouldn't be too strong, less than 450gph and rating should be at a minimum of 3 watts/10 gallons to deal with ich.

Many of those filters with integrated UV sterilizers have too great of a flow rate for the UV to be effective against ich.



Do you know of anything else she can do for it?

Still following with you and hoping for the best!

In my experience goldfish can tolerate 26c and above provided they have enough airstones (and it's not for too long)

We had a crazy heat wave here in the UK this summer and my 90g was at 26, 28c for several weeks. Tried everything to cool it down but nothing worked. Fish were fine!

I'm monitoring for stress. Fish seem OK so far. Temp at about 24c.


Not quite sure how my ranchu developed dropsy. Came back from unI and I noticed he had the costia red rash thing quite badly and when I looked at him more I saw he was pineconed. He had been absolutely fine the previous night. He had not been exposed to kanaplex either.

I think the stress of the costia is making my more sensitive fish susceptible to dropsy.

I've treated dropsy successfully twice in the past by using a mix of furan-2, kanaplex Metroplex, heat and epsom so hoping it works for my ranchu. He's still pineconed but swimming otherwise.

I do have some good news. My telescope eye that was quite badly afflicted by the costia/red rash is a lot better. She has some mild fin rot but the red is mostly gone (pics included)

The surviving fish of the mblue tank have also made an improvement... 3 days later no sign of the severe ich, fin rot miles better, fish much perkier, no more clamped fins!


Did a big water change on the 20 gallon with Forrest. Since mblue worked so well on the ich/finrot infested fish I dosed it in the 20g. Kept the power heads running but moved most of the filter media to my 90g to preserve the bb. Nothing in the 20 gallon but the mblue.
Will do partial wc everyday to control ammonia.

Don't care about staining the tank so I thought I would give it a shot. Forrest seems to have perked up too.

Thanks again for your advice!

 

Awww I'm super stoked happy for you and your fish, thanks so much for the update It's very helpful to document how it's going for yourself for later reference and others. It sounds like you are finally getting a handle this, good to hear. That's impressive that you've saved a fish with Dropsy, I wasn't able to, but my 'fish patient' (haha) was old and I suspect it was a secondary thing from a gill fluke infestation! Gah, I've been thru so much! Anyways, absolutley my pleasure to help and so happy to read about the progress

Only one thought...I understand that you want to preserve BB, but beware that it could also transfer the parasite. Unless you cooked the media or something, but that would kill BB too...so no good. Bottom line, once I started medicating with Paraguard, I wouldn't share anything.

This is what I would do, or maybe going forward. I would get all the fish in one tank and treat them all for Costia with ParaGuard. OR treat all the fish together at the same time. I would make sure the parasite is gone, they should be taking a real hit in 10 hours, and a couple days of that with water changes to suck out larvae and the parasite should be eradicated. Then it's just the secondary issues to deal with. I would do MB baths for any fish that needs them, like a boost for healing, as an antibacterial.

I'm just thinking one tank is easier to deal with and easier, maybe dividers? OR I would at least treat all the fish for Costia at the same time. Maybe you are already.

The rest of the tanks, you can crank the temp and leave fishless for 24 hours to be sure Costia is gone. Just info to help you deal with all the tanks and what to do going forward.

 

Thank you so much for all your advice.

I have increased the temps of the 90g and 20 gallon plus the Qts to 30. Dosing paraguard and feeding medicated food on off to kill of any internal bacteria.

Yes I was lumping the costia with the other ailments my fish have.

I'm sad to say I lost my sickest pearlscale to dropsy. I think the ich /costia compromised her immune system and dropsy was able to take hold.

I did everything to try and help her but it was too late.

It seems my black oranda also has costia now coupled with ich and fin rot.

He has a milk shroud to him that looks like it's flaking. Quite lethargic but eats and swims occasionally. He is my favourite fish so I'm praying he hangs in there.


Focusing on beating this thing now.

Do you think a Uv steriliser might also help my situation?

Thank you for being patient and answering all my noobie questions

Sorry that I was gone for so long, I was at the AAAA (Atlanta area aquarium association) as today is their monthly meeting, the auction was three hours long!!! Anyways, it is sad to hear your first victI'm has now become your first casualty, I have read that a UV will cause swings in your BB and that is risky, especially right now when you have the Apocalypse in your fish tanks. the milky shroud may be the slime coat rotting off like fin rot does.

 

Awww I'm super stoked happy for you and your fish, thanks so much for the update It's very helpful to document how it's going for yourself for later reference and others. It sounds like you are finally getting a handle this, good to hear. That's impressive that you've saved a fish with Dropsy, I wasn't able to, but my 'fish patient' (haha) was old and I suspect it was a secondary thing from a gill fluke infestation! Gah, I've been thru so much! Anyways, absolutley my pleasure to help and so happy to read about the progress

Only one thought...I understand that you want to preserve BB, but beware that it could also transfer the parasite. Unless you cooked the media or something, but that would kill BB too...so no good. Bottom line, once I started medicating with Paraguard, I wouldn't share anything.

This is what I would do, or maybe going forward. I would get all the fish in one tank and treat them all for Costia with ParaGuard. OR treat all the fish together at the same time. I would make sure the parasite is gone, they should be taking a real hit in 10 hours, and a couple days of that with water changes to suck out larvae and the parasite should be eradicated. Then it's just the secondary issues to deal with. I would do MB baths for any fish that needs them, like a boost for healing, as an antibacterial.

I'm just thinking one tank is easier to deal with and easier, maybe dividers? OR I would at least treat all the fish for Costia at the same time. Maybe you are already.

The rest of the tanks, you can crank the temp and leave fishless for 24 hours to be sure Costia is gone. Just info to help you deal with all the tanks and what to do going forward.

So most of my fish are back on the 90g being treated with the paraguard for costia and some ich.

Pennywise and Grapefruit of the mblue 12l are back in the 90g.

90g Fish seem to have perked up . I have some stress induced fin rot but a lot of the redness is gone. More active as well. Not out of the woods yet but they sure look better.

Only Forrest in the 20 gallon and Behemoth the dropsied ranchu in the Qt are apart for now.
I'm dosing paraguard and the medicated food to Behemoth to try and tackle the costia and dropsy.

I've only so far dosed the mblue in Forest's tank but I have added some salt and increased the temp to take care of any costia. Hoping the mblue works on the fin rot and ich the way it did on Pennywise and Grapefruit


His swim bladder is still quite bad (possibly chronic/physical) so that's why he's in the 20g.



I used some of the cycled 90g water to replenish his water so there's probably traces of paraguard on there but didn't want to full dose the paraguard with the mblue.

I have noticed though that my orange oranda has developed these black blotches on his chin/fins.... Ammonia is fine, so healing spots from the costia? Or stress induced coloring? He was black originally

Sorry that I was gone for so long, I was at the AAAA (Atlanta area aquarium association) as today is their monthly meeting, the auction was three hours long!!! Anyways, it is sad to hear your first victI'm has now become your first casualty, I have read that a UV will cause swings in your BB and that is risky, especially right now when you have the Apocalypse in your fish tanks. the milky shroud may be the slime coat rotting off like fin rot does.

I think the peeling is the costia.

The aaaa sounds fun! Buy any fish?

Didn't know that about uv thanks.

Thank apocalypse is the way to describe it!

 

I think the black is normal coloring, especially if your oranda was black originally. MB should work for finrot and at least control Costia, but to ensure it's gone, I'd keep Forest separate for long enough until you know for sure it's gone.

So happy everything is calming down for you and you have a plan of action

 

I think the black is normal coloring, especially if your oranda was black originally. MB should work for finrot and at least control Costia, but to ensure it's gone, I'd keep Forest separate for long enough until you know for sure it's gone.

So happy everything is calming down for you and you have a plan of action

It seems to be... Hopefully it stays that way! Everyone's almost back to their old selves



I've noticed Forrest is head standing more but he's also swimming more.

Wondering if he's not a natural head stander because of his enormous wen?

I hate and love having the aquariums in my room... I delight in seeing them swim but start to worry when I see them act funny

Shall keep you posted

 

I think the peeling is the costia.

The aaaa sounds fun! Buy any fish?

Didn't know that about uv thanks.

Thank apocalypse is the way to describe it!

The AAAA was fun, but I did not buy anything (because there is nothing for sell), but I did auction for some things, I got two long-fined Philippine blue smokey angels, but unfortunately, the unexpected happened, and I woke up this morning to one of them that was a victI'm of my port acaras, they murdered him! they are very beautiful though, I did also get two silver angels, two (regular) smokey angels, and an anubias plant attached to a rock with a lot of green algae, and the anubias had to go into my one of my Tanganyika cichlids with plecos tank.

So most of my fish are back on the 90g being treated with the paraguard for costia and some ich.

Pennywise and Grapefruit of the mblue 12l are back in the 90g.

90g Fish seem to have perked up . I have some stress induced fin rot but a lot of the redness is gone. More active as well. Not out of the woods yet but they sure look better.

Only Forrest in the 20 gallon and Behemoth the dropsied ranchu in the Qt are apart for now.
I'm dosing paraguard and the medicated food to Behemoth to try and tackle the costia and dropsy.

I've only so far dosed the mblue in Forest's tank but I have added some salt and increased the temp to take care of any costia. Hoping the mblue works on the fin rot and ich the way it did on Pennywise and Grapefruit


His swim bladder is still quite bad (possibly chronic/physical) so that's why he's in the 20g.



I used some of the cycled 90g water to replenish his water so there's probably traces of paraguard on there but didn't want to full dose the paraguard with the mblue.

I have noticed though that my orange oranda has developed these black blotches on his chin/fins.... Ammonia is fine, so healing spots from the costia? Or stress induced coloring? He was black originally View attachment 493028

It seems to be... Hopefully it stays that way! Everyone's almost back to their old selves



I've noticed Forrest is head standing more but he's also swimming more.

Wondering if he's not a natural head stander because of his enormous wen?

I hate and love having the aquariums in my room... I delight in seeing them swim but start to worry when I see them act funny

Shall keep you posted

First, is the name Forest or Forrest? Second, unfortunately your pearlscale can't return to her old self like your other goldfish can, but at least the others still can. Third, did the pearlscale have a name like your others did? Fourth, do you have a cat or dog, go find him/her if you do have one (or more) and go give your pet a nice little petting session in a room that does not have an aquarium, and then when you are done with the petting session, take a deep breath, and come back to the room that has all of your fish tanks and be optimistic about the situation.

 

The AAAA was fun, but I did not buy anything (because there is nothing for sell), but I did auction for some things, I got two long-fined Philippine blue smokey angels, but unfortunately, the unexpected happened, and I woke up this morning to one of them that was a victI'm of my port acaras, they murdered him! they are very beautiful though, I did also get two silver angels, two (regular) smokey angels, and an anubias plant attached to a rock with a lot of green algae, and the anubias had to go into my one of my Tanganyika cichlids with plecos tank.


First, is the name Forest or Forrest? Second, unfortunately your pearlscale can't return to her old self like your other goldfish can, but at least the others still can. Third, did the pearlscale have a name like your others did? Fourth, do you have a cat or dog, go find him/her if you do have one (or more) and go give your pet a nice little petting session in a room that does not have an aquarium, and then when you are done with the petting session, take a deep breath, and come back to the room that has all of your fish tanks and be optimistic about the situation.

Blue Smokey angels are gorgeous! I've always planned on having a tropical tank filled only with blue fish and these would be the perfect centre piece....

Forrest, like Forrest Gump because of his swim problems.

The pearlscale I lost was called Golfball.

Been spending lots of time playing battlefield 1... With my dog on my lap

 

Golfball, Forrest, Pennywise, Grapefruit, and Behemoth, is that just randomly you naming the fish, or is that you naming your fish because you have a reason behind each name?

 

Golfball, Forrest, Pennywise, Grapefruit, and Behemoth, is that just randomly you naming the fish, or is that you naming your fish because you have a reason behind each name?

I usually try and have a reason. Usually if a fish reminds me of something or from whatever show or book I'm watching/reading at the moment

I do have some good and bad news.

I think the dropsied ranchu is getting better as he seems less pineconed.

My other fish also seem better and no longer so lethargic. I hope I managed to kill off most of the costia.

Unfortunately though I did lose my pleco.

The stress of treatment/temp change to kill off the costia has also made Forrest's swim bladder problem worse. He swims and rights himself but I do find him belly up at the surface. Hoping it's just stress or constipation! It's awful seeing him like this

Currently fasting him

 

So sorry you lost your pleco. That hurts So hard to treat plecos.

Did Forrest have a red spot on his belly at first? Was he a new fish for you?

Sorry, it was me who started "Forest". I have never named my fish!

 

So sorry you lost your pleco. That hurts So hard to treat plecos.

Did Forrest have a red spot on his belly at first? Was he a new fish for you?

Sorry, it was me who started "Forest". I have never named my fish!

Never had any red mark that I saw. He was my newest addition.

When I got him he did have boyuancy problems but never this bad. He would head stand a lot and I noticed that temperature fluctuations and stress would aggravate it.

I think the stress of being sick/temperature fluctuation has made his swim bladder problems worse. He still rights himself and swims but when he stops he tends to go belly up which began when I increased the temp to try and kill off the costia before it reaches his gills.

I've fed him a pea, dosed Epsom and fasting him to see if that corrects things.

My pleco became lethargic when my other fish did. He also became pale but I attributed that to stress.


I took a closer at him once he passed and noticed a red costia like blemish but that's about it

 

Never had any red mark that I saw. He was my newest addition.

When I got him he did have boyuancy problems but never this bad. He would head stand a lot and I noticed that temperature fluctuations and stress would aggravate it.

I think the stress of being sick/temperature fluctuation has made his swim bladder problems worse. He still rights himself and swims but when he stops he tends to go belly up which began when I increased the temp to try and kill off the costia before it reaches his gills.

I've fed him a pea, dosed Epsom and fasting him to see if that corrects things.

My pleco became lethargic when my other fish did. He also became pale but I attributed that to stress.


I took a closer at him once he passed and noticed a red costia like blemish but that's about it

When you come back to the glass tomorrow,your goldfish will be doing a circus act of cartwheeling and maybe even a pirouette for you. LOL the red could also be ammonia burn or ammonia poisoning.

 

When you come back to the glass tomorrow,your goldfish will be doing a circus act of cartwheeling and maybe even a pirouette for you. LOL the red could also be ammonia burn or ammonia poisoning.

Mostly belly up at the surface. Though he does swim and right himself.

Lowered the water level, dosed epsom and am fasting to see if that helps. Will medicate next.

The others are doing OK.

Poor guy!

 

My fish were sick with something but I think pH was causing most of my problems. I think something was leaching into my tank. I'm so used to Params never changing, especially pH, that I didn't think to measure pH sooner.

Lesson learned!

I know little about lake ecology but don't fertilisers and organic matter cause some nitrates?

Yes, nitrates leaking into lakes causes blue/green algae and excessive plant growth, which is good at first but when there is a drought and cloudy days the algae can die off in mass and kill the fish. However, nitrates are taken up by plants in nature, so a lake usually has 0-5 ppm nitrates.
Tap water can contain nitrates too.
The way to remove them is to have live plants, water changes, and another tip from me is there is such thing as "anerobic" bacteria, aka bacteria which live deep in the mulm/substrate that do not breathe oxygen, and these can absorb nitrates as well. Ideally you want to keep them below 20

All these problems with costia, have you just tried dosing your tanks with malachite green? Paraguard? That should work.

 

Mostly belly up at the surface. Though he does swim and right himself.

Lowered the water level, dosed epsom and am fasting to see if that helps. Will medicate next.

The others are doing OK.

Poor guy! View attachment 493957

the picture seem to appear that your fish is up right, but then when I read through what you typed, I saw the belly up part.

Yes, nitrates leaking into lakes causes blue/green algae and excessive plant growth, which is good at first but when there is a drought and cloudy days the algae can die off in mass and kill the fish. However, nitrates are taken up by plants in nature, so a lake usually has 0-5 ppm nitrates.
Tap water can contain nitrates too.
The way to remove them is to have live plants, water changes, and another tip from me is there is such thing as "anerobic" bacteria, aka bacteria which live deep in the mulm/substrate that do not breathe oxygen, and these can absorb nitrates as well. Ideally you want to keep them below 20

All these problems with costia, have you just tried dosing your tanks with malachite green? Paraguard? That should work.

I know it is a lot to read, but you should inform your self on what we have already discussed about, we already said to do the Paragaurd and to try a MB on the majority of her fish, but they are just not going to live if we repeat all of this stuff all over again, the fish will die of stress, just like a child who can't wait for Halloween trick or treating, but he has to do a who essay on a passage for ELA! that kid would be stressed because he wants the treats, not the homework, and the kid can't get the sweets without doing his homework (that is also called torture by the way)!

 

Wow this thread is just getting waay to long. Dont know what to say anymore, only my condolences.

 

Yes, nitrates leaking into lakes causes blue/green algae and excessive plant growth, which is good at first but when there is a drought and cloudy days the algae can die off in mass and kill the fish. However, nitrates are taken up by plants in nature, so a lake usually has 0-5 ppm nitrates.
Tap water can contain nitrates too.
The way to remove them is to have live plants, water changes, and another tip from me is there is such thing as "anerobic" bacteria, aka bacteria which live deep in the mulm/substrate that do not breathe oxygen, and these can absorb nitrates as well. Ideally you want to keep them below 20

All these problems with costia, have you just tried dosing your tanks with malachite green? Paraguard? That should work.

Dosed paraguard and gave mblue baths. Killed off most of the costia. Lost 2 fish but the rest are doing better.


Stress of treatment caused my Oranda, already prone to swim bladder problems, to become belly up. Doing my best to treat him

Wow this thread is just getting waay to long. Dont know what to say anymore, only my condolences.

I know!! It absolutely snowballed. Just been infection, after secondary infection...rest of fish are better. Have one fish with dropsy and one with sbd so I'm focussing on them rn.

Thanks for everyone's input and advice

 

the picture seem to appear that your fish is up right, but then when I read through what you typed, I saw the belly up part.
I know it is a lot to read, but you should inform your self on what we have already discussed about, we already said to do the Paragaurd and to try a MB on the majority of her fish, but they are just not going to live if we repeat all of this stuff all over again, the fish will die of stress, just like a child who can't wait for Halloween trick or treating, but he has to do a who essay on a passage for ELA! that kid would be stressed because he wants the treats, not the homework, and the kid can't get the sweets without doing his homework (that is also called torture by the way)!

Doing everything I can to minimise stress. Fish in 90g only being treated with paraguard at the moment as they have massively improved.

Only the 2 with dropsy/sbd I'm treating with more heavy stuff. Dropsied ranchu has massively improved on medicated food. Sbd fish I'm treating with furan-2, epsom and fasting to see if can treat the sbd. If you have any advice on treating sbd, I'd love to hear it. He still rights himself and manages to swim but only he tries very hard. I think increasing the temp to kill off the costia stressed him and he got sbd.....

 

I think putting them into a tank that was brand new and not fully cycled was the main problem, even tho you switched the filter, you can still have ammonia and nitrite spikes, especially nitrite since its a "minI cycle" Yes I do it, but I also shotgun dose prime daily or every other day for a couple weeks until the tank is out of the woods.

 

As far as I remember lol, OP's 90g params are on par now. 20 gallon QT has Methylene Blue (I think). Whatever the cause, the problem seems to be stabilizing, which is great! So it's the swim bladder and dropsy that still needs to be addressed.

Keeping the ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm and nitrates below 20ppm is the number priority. I think it is the best thing you can do for both of them atm. I'm happy to hear your ranchu is slowly recovering, when course of feeding meds is over, clean water and good nutrition is the best course of action for him imo.

But for your poor oranda with the SBD, I don't think I'd use the Furan2. It's an antibiotic that treats external infections. I think his issue is either an internal infection or some organ issue. I would honestly just continue the epsom salts for 10 days or so and keep the water conditions pristine. If the ES are not helping by 10 days, I don't think they'll do much for this (IMO). But to let you know, you can also feed epsom salts to fish by wetting their food with a water mixed solution. It's mostly used as a fish laxative and to treat protozoans like Hexamita, but if you know it can help with SBDs, than it could be an option for treatment without dosing the water. Either way ES are relatively safe anyway, not like an antibiotic, just wanted to let you know.

The mods would know best, but it might be helpful to start a new thread for your oranda and ranchu because this thread IS very long. I think you'd get better help with the SBD if more traffic was going thru.

Good luck, I give you my sincerest well wishes!

 

Minocycline can be a good antibiotic for internal problems and tail rot, but you would be best mixing it in food.

 

Minocycline can be a good antibiotic for internal problems and tail rot, but you would be best mixing it in food.

And also just to let you know, epsom salts can be mixed with most antibiotics in the food.

Your dropsy'd ranchu, was he ever treated with kanaplex? In the water or as a feed?

 

I think the fish are okay I think hat the op is not on, but I think that the OP has taken care of this and that hopefully no one else died...

 

I think putting them into a tank that was brand new and not fully cycled was the main problem, even tho you switched the filter, you can still have ammonia and nitrite spikes, especially nitrite since its a "minI cycle" Yes I do it, but I also shotgun dose prime daily or every other day for a couple weeks until the tank is out of the woods.

I put seeded filter media from my 90g into the 20 gallon filters to cycle it, plus added prime and stability. The tank was fine until I moved the females until I got the tank divider. Probably created a minicycle, that and some of the meds may very well have killed some of the bb.

Things mostly back to normal now

 

As far as I remember lol, OP's 90g params are on par now. 20 gallon QT has Methylene Blue (I think). Whatever the cause, the problem seems to be stabilizing, which is great! So it's the swim bladder and dropsy that still needs to be addressed.

Keeping the ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm and nitrates below 20ppm is the number priority. I think it is the best thing you can do for both of them atm. I'm happy to hear your ranchu is slowly recovering, when course of feeding meds is over, clean water and good nutrition is the best course of action for him imo.

But for your poor oranda with the SBD, I don't think I'd use the Furan2. It's an antibiotic that treats external infections. I think his issue is either an internal infection or some organ issue. I would honestly just continue the epsom salts for 10 days or so and keep the water conditions pristine. If the ES are not helping by 10 days, I don't think they'll do much for this (IMO). But to let you know, you can also feed epsom salts to fish by wetting their food with a water mixed solution. It's mostly used as a fish laxative and to treat protozoans like Hexamita, but if you know it can help with SBDs, than it could be an option for treatment without dosing the water. Either way ES are relatively safe anyway, not like an antibiotic, just wanted to let you know.

The mods would know best, but it might be helpful to start a new thread for your oranda and ranchu because this thread IS very long. I think you'd get better help with the SBD if more traffic was going thru.

Good luck, I give you my sincerest well wishes!

Well my ranchu with dropsy recovered and his pineconing totally disappeared and he was back to normal. I'm keeping at eye on him but I've put him back in the 90g for now.

My ryukin started harassing my ladies so I put the divider back up but apart from that everything in the 90g is back to normal

Only my fish Forrest is still sick

Did 3 days of the mblue and it cleared up all the ich and costia

After mblue he went belly up and has been for 7 days though he does right himself and swim. He's always had swimming issues but never this bad

Fed pea, fasted him, dosed epsom and saw no change.

One round of kanaplex and furan-2 also yielded no results.

I noticed his poo was white, thin and mucousy which makes me think its something internal.

Gave him break from meds and am dosing kanaplex and Metroplex and paraguard.

Hard to feed, he spits most food out.

His belly is slightly concave and his fins are split and frayed.

He's also covered in these tiny white, hair/fur like strands that give him a milky, velvety appearance. Wen, fins, tail, body.
I have no idea what they are!

I started a thread about his sbd and those weird white fur things on him. Only answer I got was that it could be dropsy which it isn't. I'll see about making a second one

Thanks for all your advice!

 

And also just to let you know, epsom salts can be mixed with most antibiotics in the food.

Your dropsy'd ranchu, was he ever treated with kanaplex? In the water or as a feed?

Treated with furan-2/Epsom in the water and fed medicated food with Metroplex and kanaplex.

I'll see about force feeding Forrest med food, like maybe with a pipette. He spits everything out and he swims off in a huff when I try and hand feed him or feed him with pincers.

 

Treated with furan-2/Epsom in the water and fed medicated food with Metroplex and kanaplex.

I'll see about force feeding Forrest med food, like maybe with a pipette. He spits everything out and he swims off in a huff when I try and hand feed him or feed him with pincers.

If it's infection, the kanaplex would do the job (if antibiotics would help) I'd stop with the antibiotics. Kanaplex is readily absorbed thru the skin, I asked about it to see if he was exposed to kanamycin already. I'd look into the white things more. It's not normal and may be a link to his SBD, you never know. It honestly looks like some kind of external parasite....keep boom separated for now and I'll search for an answer. Good clean water for now is my suggestion for him. Epsom salts are relatively safe, but the antibiotics not so.

Edit: There are so many parasites!
Introduction-to-Freshwater-Fish-Parasites.pdf
Have you treated Forrest with Paraguard already?

 

If it's infection, the kanaplex would do the job (if antibiotics would help) I'd stop with the antibiotics. Kanaplex is readily absorbed thru the skin, I asked about it to see if he was exposed to kanamycin already. I'd look into the white things more. It's not normal and may be a link to his SBD, you never know. It honestly looks like some kind of external parasite....keep boom separated for now and I'll search for an answer. Good clean water for now is my suggestion for him. Epsom salts are relatively safe, but the antibiotics not so.

Yes on the seachem website it says to do 6 rounds of kanaplex over 12 days then take a break so if I continue with this round it will be last for a while.

The white stringy mucousy poo made me think it was something internal along with the sbd. The sbd preceded the weird white hairs.

The white fur looks like it's external. Could be linked to the sbd.

Ive asked around several forums and I'm still stumped!

His sunken belly, shimmying, refusal to eat and laboured breathing indicates skin flukes but haven't found pics that look like what he has.

I am able to obtain cupramine or praziquantel if it is an external parasite

 

Me neither. I can't find anything that looks like that. I read he perked up and was swimming better after a water change. You've been testing his water? Can you change his water daily or every other day for a while?

From what I can see, most gf parasites are treated with formalin (ingredient in Paraguard). Have you treated him with Paraguard?

Stingy poop is usually a sign of internal parasites, but it could also be because he's not feeling well. I'd honestly concentrate on fresh water (cuz that made him perky) and maybe Paraguard, especially if you haven't treated him yet with it. He was already in Meth blue?

 

Been testing his water regularly. Params are as they should be. Put new seeded filter media from my 90g into my bigger filter after I finished off the furan-2 round. Added paraguard and salt to his tank as well.

He did a mblue treatment for approx 3 days. Killed off all the ich and costia.

Tempted to dose the mblue again if its flukes, much as I hate how it means I have to remove the filters!

The only pic I found which looks similar is this

:

 

Yeah, your pic was much clearer though. I do know PraziPro is very good against flukes, so you have access to it?

From what I can see, Paraguard doesn't treat flukes, so it's possible that's what it is.

Also, btw, I just saw that the medicated Wonder Shells have meth blue and small amounts of malachite green together. I remember saying I wasn't sure if they could be mixed.....

 

Yeah, your pic was much clearer though. I do know PraziPro is very good against flukes, so you have access to it?

From what I can see, Paraguard doesn't treat flukes, so it's possible that's what it is.

Also, btw, I just saw that the medicated Wonder Shells have meth blue and small amounts of malachite green together. I remember saying I wasn't sure if they could be mixed.....

I'm in the UK so I can't seem to find prazipro. However I can buy fluke solve which contains praziquantel.



I can get prazipro off American ebay but might take a while to ship.

Read mixed reviews re paraguard and flukes. It can be effective but not always.

Might give the fluke solve a go