Septicaemia Orandas?

I'm sorry to come off as rude if I did.
Have you been dosing the kanamycin in the M blue tank only?
How long are the baths?

I need to re-read like 4 pages of thread now

 

Did the stringy white poop stay away on the big oranda that had the buoyancy problem and started getting red streaks when it used to be all white fins?

Mostly I think? He was evacuating normally when red streaking started happening

 

Okay, I don't know what alkalinosis is, but that fish is huge and I would be worried too, you must have spent a fortune on him.

Don't feed anything.
I didn't catch the part about kanaplex, did you dose it in the main tank?

The fin rot = red streaks is aeromonas, needs a antibiotic.
If you put an antibiotic in the main tank, especially one that big, it will just waste,

Could you put him in a goldfish bowl or Q tank and do daily water changes and re-dose the antibiotics and M blue, like a 5 gallon tank with airstone?

The main thing is it does seem to have internal infection and some pressure on the Swim bladder, that bacteria needs to die.
That and not feeding a fish anything that is so bloated its doing barrel rolls in the tank should be your concerns

Small amounts of ammonia are noamal, you said you used the filter from another tank, that should be good as far as I'm concerned

The main thing is, that does cause ammonia/nitrites to rise to what we could call a "mini-cycle"

The main thing you could do, is go to a pet store and get "prime" or "amquel plus" and dose this daily for 2 weeks, it will "cover up" and detoxify the minI cycle. ...don't waste your time changing the water every day.

 

But as it detoxifies the ammonia and the nitrite, it also is stopping the BB from making it become nitrates, so that only wastes the prime and it dose not do any sort of "minI cycle" to your tank.

 

I'm sorry to come off as rude if I did.
Have you been dosing the kanamycin in the M blue tank only?
How long are the baths?

I need to re-read like 4 pages of thread now

No worries, just didn't want people to start arguing over my silly fish!

I can give you summary lol-- Naughty male fish injured my female fish, I moved the injured females to the 20 gallon that is the home of my black oranda. Each time I moved a female, the males would beat up another one so I'd end up with another refugee from the 90g.

Over this week, all the fish in the 20 gallon started to display different disease/stress symptoms, particularly my black oranda who was not the subject of bullying. I've been trying to figure out what's afflicting him and why.

Been lots of suggested diagnoses on here so I've been trying to keep up with everyone!

Dosing kanaplex and furan-2 in the 20 gallon tank to try and treat the fin rot.

I did a couple of mblue baths but thought the stress of moving in and out was probably aggravating his fin rot. I've had fish lose huge tail chunks from stress-induced fin rot so Ive stopped the baths for now. Gave him 2 30m baths this weekend.

Okay, I don't know what alkalinosis is, but that fish is huge and I would be worried too, you must have spent a fortune on him.

Don't feed anything.
I didn't catch the part about kanaplex, did you dose it in the main tank?

The fin rot = red streaks is aeromonas, needs a antibiotic.
If you put an antibiotic in the main tank, especially one that big, it will just waste,

Could you put him in a goldfish bowl or Q tank and do daily water changes and re-dose the antibiotics and M blue, like a 5 gallon tank with airstone?

The main thing is it does seem to have internal infection and some pressure on the Swim bladder, that bacteria needs to die.
That and not feeding a fish anything that is so bloated its doing barrel rolls in the tank should be your concerns

Small amounts of ammonia are noamal, you said you used the filter from another tank, that should be good as far as I'm concerned

The main thing is, that does cause ammonia/nitrites to rise to what we could call a "mini-cycle"

The main thing you could do, is go to a pet store and get "prime" or "amquel plus" and dose this daily for 2 weeks, it will "cover up" and detoxify the minI cycle. ...don't waste your time changing the water every day.

I have just read about alkalosis. When the pH gets too high, above 8.5 fish can develop white milky films on them, red streaks, fin fraying so a lot the symptoms Ive been seeing. Can also cause secondary infections. My 20 gallon pH was at 8.9 whereas in the 90g it always 8.2. Figured my problem was maybe because that? I added some h2o from my 90g, removed all the rocks and the ph is now 8.2. Fish seemed to perk up a bit too

He is a truly gorgeous and personable fish!


I've been dosing the 20 gallon tank with prime. Ammonia and nitrites 0. Replaced filters with new seeded filter media from my 90g as well.

he has head bobbed and barrel rolled since I got him. He's been very round since I got him too. He's doing the head standing a bit more now but he was always very 'clumsy' hence the name forrest



I do have a 5 gallon tank but last time I used it to treat sick fish, even with the a filter and prime the ammonia and nitrites were very hard to control. As he's already a bit weak, I figured even small spikes would be bad for him. I do have enough meds to treat the 20 gallon for now

But as it detoxifies the ammonia and the nitrite, it also is stopping the BB from making it become nitrates, so that only wastes the prime and it dose not do any sort of "minI cycle" to your tank.

From what I know it turns ammonia into the less toxic ammonium so the bb don't starve totally. Has been good at detoxifying my water but I'll keep that in mind about potential impact on the bb

 

I don't think smaller and smaller tanks [or bowls!?] will ever be the solution to disease. When you, op, gave the summary, it really sounds like the progressive overstocking of the 20 gallon as a sick-bay exceeded its avaiable cycle and led to continued stress and disease. At one time there was some talk of the meds breaking the cycle but the bump in bioload could have done it. Maintaining water quality is critical to their recovery, you said it's the top priority. How many female fancies ended up in this 20 now anyway? Please don't start using 5 gallon tanks.

 

Obviously not in the main tank!

Main tanks. I think the main is a 90g and the other was a 20 gallon? I meant no MB in either tank you seeded. MB treatment is best done in a plastic bin you don't care about staining. I bought my last 10 gallon clear bin for 8$.

 

But as it detoxifies the ammonia and the nitrite, it also is stopping the BB from making it become nitrates, so that only wastes the prime and it dose not do any sort of "minI cycle" to your tank.

Primes binding process is temporary, as ammonium converts back to ammonia after an estimated period of 24 hrs, it’s conversion process is staggered so that only smaller amounts of ammonia are present allowing for a smaller bacterial colony to oxidize and built itself to full bioload and less stress on tank inhabitants

 

I don't think smaller and smaller tanks [or bowls!?] will ever be the solution to disease. When you, op, gave the summary, it really sounds like the progressive overstocking of the 20 gallon as a sick-bay exceeded its avaiable cycle and led to continued stress and disease. At one time there was some talk of the meds breaking the cycle but the bump in bioload could have done it. Maintaining water quality is critical to their recovery, you said it's the top priority. How many female fancies ended up in this 20 now anyway? Please don't start using 5 gallon tanks.

Yes, that's exactly what happened. Everytime I went to uni, they ganged up on a female until most of my females were pretty battered forcing me to move them to the 20g. They were so injured I thought three of them were dead/dying!

About 4 small females and one bigger one. I had 2 internal eheim filter and I moved my eheim 600 to the 20 gallon to give it about 900 litres of filtration capacity. I thought that would be enough but the bump in bioload probably was enough to start my problems
That and the high pH.

I have enough meds to cover the 20 gallon so I'll dose that for now.

Main tanks. I think the main is a 90g and the other was a 20 gallon? I meant no MB in either tank you seeded. MB treatment is best done in a plastic bin you don't care about staining. I bought my last 10 gallon clear bin for 8$.

Yes my main is the 90g.

Tbh if I were to do a prolonged mblue treatment I'd probably use the 20g. I don't care about staining it and easier to keep Params OK. It's seeded but I could remove the filters to stop the bb dying or use my backup seeded media from the 90g.

I don't have the space in my room for a plastic tub, apart from the floor, but I don't trust my dog not to interfere with it.

 

I have just read about alkalosis. When the pH gets too high, above 8.5 fish can develop white milky films on them, red streaks, fin fraying so a lot the symptoms Ive been seeing. Can also cause secondary infections. My 20 gallon pH was at 8.9 whereas in the 90g it always 8.2. Figured my problem was maybe because that? I added some h2o from my 90g, removed all the rocks and the ph is now 8.2. Fish seemed to perk up a bit too

He is a truly gorgeous and personable fish!


I've been dosing the 20 gallon tank with prime. Ammonia and nitrites 0. Replaced filters with new seeded filter media from my 90g as well.

he has head bobbed and barrel rolled since I got him. He's been very round since I got him too. He's doing the head standing a bit more now but he was always very 'clumsy' hence the name forrest



I do have a 5 gallon tank but last time I used it to treat sick fish, even with the a filter and prime the ammonia and nitrites were very hard to control. As he's already a bit weak, I figured even small spikes would be bad for him. I do have enough meds to treat the 20 gallon for now

Do you have any drift wood? if not I would definitely add some, because the drift wood will help lower the pH by a little bit at a time, kind of like the stock market, a bear market is a steady decrease in price over a period of time, the drift wood will help lower your pH by just a little bit over a period of time. the driftwood is strong with the more you have, so if you don't want a whole lot of tannins, you can either put newly bought drift wood in the tank, or you could add newly bought drift wood and place it in a bucket of tap water to help function as a pH buffer for you water changes.

 

Do you have any drift wood? if not I would definitely add some, because the drift wood will help lower the pH by a little bit at a time, kind of like the stock market, a bear market is a steady decrease in price over a period of time, the drift wood will help lower your pH by just a little bit over a period of time. the driftwood is strong with the more you have, so if you don't want a whole lot of tannins, you can either put newly bought drift wood in the tank, or you could add newly bought drift wood and place it in a bucket of tap water to help function as a pH buffer for you water changes.

I have added nice chunck driftwood from my 90g.

PH hasn't fluctuated since yesterday. At about 8/8.2 rn.

 

when you do a waer change, I would test the ph afterwards, because I think the tap is getting a higher and higher pH and that makes your tank get a high and higher pH.

 

When I tested the tap it was actually a bit lower than my tank pH. Closer to the 7.8 reading than my tanks' 8ish ph.

 

that is strange, do you have any shells or crushed coral anywhere in the tank or in the filters, they buffer the pH like driftwood, but instead they don't rot or break off with time, they just dissolve, grow algae, and the up the pH instead of lowering it.

 

that is strange, do you have any shells or crushed coral anywhere in the tank or in the filters, they buffer the pH like driftwood, but instead they don't rot or break off with time, they just dissolve, grow algae, and the up the pH instead of lowering it.

I was thinking of buying some eheim torf balls. They have peat in them and lower pH naturally.

 

I do have a 5 gallon tank but last time I used it to treat sick fish, even with the a filter and prime the ammonia and nitrites were very hard to control. As he's already a bit weak, I figured even small spikes would be bad for him. I do have enough meds to treat the 20 gallon for now

Agreed, it would be hard to control conditions with a goldfish in a small space. Maybe you are on to something with the high pH. It's really hard on the fish to deal with water they are not meant to deal with. But FYI on Meth Blue, you don't need to keep it cycled. Just wait one hour after using water conditioner and an airstone. Change 1/3 of the water daily and replace MB to a 1tsp per 10 gallon concentration.

If he's doing better without meds, and just good tank conditions, continue with that. Good job! I'm glad to hear the situation is progressing for the better.

Depending on your carbonate hardness (kh), it may be very hard to lower the pH with DW or peat, but 8.2 shouldn't cause any issues like you've been seeing. Unless perhaps he is having a hard time acclimating. It's high, but as long as it's not climbing and steady, it should be ok. The nitrogen cycle naturally lowers the pH, so if it's climbing and your tank is not cycling (because pH bounces around during cycling) then it has to be the rocks or any shells ot coral like C4L said.

 

Agreed, it would be hard to control conditions with a goldfish in a small space. Maybe you are on to something with the high pH. It's really hard on the fish to deal with water they are not meant to deal with. But FYI on Meth Blue, you don't need to keep it cycled. Just wait one hour after using water conditioner and an airstone. Change 1/3 of the water daily and replace MB to a 1tsp per 10 gallon concentration.

If he's doing better without meds, and just good tank conditions, continue with that. Good job! I'm glad to hear the situation is progressing for the better.

I don't know a lot about alkalosis... But it may be what I'm dealing with. That would explain the mottled white film he has on him as well as the frayed fins.

He perked up immediately once the pH got back down to more levels and no longer hangs near the water surface. PH steady at 8.2 so I think the rocks I had in there were leaching something.

He seems to be getting a bit better. Still bottom sitting and his fins are in bad shape but he's swimming and scavenging a bit more.

Thanks, I will consider using the mblue!

Depending on your carbonate hardness (kh), it may be very hard to lower the pH with DW or peat, but 8.2 shouldn't cause any issues like you've been seeing. Unless perhaps he is having a hard time acclimating. It's high, but as long as it's not climbing and steady, it should be ok. The nitrogen cycle naturally lowers the pH, so if it's climbing and your tank is not cycling (because pH bounces around during cycling) then it has to be the rocks or any shells ot coral like C4L said.

I tested my water on Sunday and saw the pH was 8.8

. I think some of my rock was leaching stuff because once I removed them and replenished the water it was back at 8.2. Same reading as 90g. Water here is pretty hard and 8.2 has been the constant

 

I tested my water on Sunday and saw the pH was 8.8

. I think some of my rock was leaching stuff because once I removed them and replenished the water it was back at 8.2. Same reading as 90g. Water here is pretty hard and 8.2 has been the constant

Take some tap water, test it and then let it sit in a bucket for 24-48 hours and test again. As CO2 leaves the water column during aging and oxygen dissolves in, PH will rise.

 

Take some tap water, test it and then let it sit in a bucket for 24-48 hours and test again. As CO2 leaves the water column during aging and oxygen dissolves in, PH will rise.

Thanks I will do that!

Tap water is 7.6 rn but I'll leave to sit and test again.

 

But as it detoxifies the ammonia and the nitrite, it also is stopping the BB from making it become nitrates, so that only wastes the prime and it dose not do any sort of "minI cycle" to your tank.

I don't think this is ture

And Fawkes21, I'm glad to see your starting to pay attention to water quality, instead of chasing mystery diseases
A lake in nature has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and, 0 nitrates. And a lower ph of around usually 6
There is bacteria and parasites everywhere, yet the fish don't get sick. Consider this when dealing with diseases in the future, it will save a lot of fretting over nothing.

 

I don't think this is ture

And Fawkes21, I'm glad to see your starting to pay attention to water quality, instead of chasing mystery diseases
A lake in nature has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and, 0 nitrates. And a lower ph of around usually 6
There is bacteria and parasites everywhere, yet the fish don't get sick. Consider this when dealing with diseases in the future, it will save a lot of fretting over nothing.

My fish were sick with something but I think pH was causing most of my problems. I think something was leaching into my tank. I'm so used to Params never changing, especially pH, that I didn't think to measure pH sooner.

Lesson learned!

I know little about lake ecology but don't fertilisers and organic matter cause some nitrates?

 

I don't think this is ture

And Fawkes21, I'm glad to see your starting to pay attention to water quality, instead of chasing mystery diseases
A lake in nature has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and, 0 nitrates. And a lower ph of around usually 6
There is bacteria and parasites everywhere, yet the fish don't get sick. Consider this when dealing with diseases in the future, it will save a lot of fretting over nothing.

But in the fish keeping hobby, fish get stressed a lot, and their immune systems are weaker than they normally are in the wild, so we must consider that our fish may have a disease or parasite sometimes.

 

But in the fish keeping hobby, fish get stressed a lot, and their immune systems are weaker than they normally are in the wild, so we must consider that our fish may have a disease or parasite sometimes.

Also, an aquarium is a closed system with recycled water. Once the fish's immune is compromised, disease and parasites can outbreak. High nitrates, fluctuating temperature, lack of nutritious foods can all weaken the immune, making them susceptible to disease and/or parasites if they are present.

There were callamanus worms in my system for 3 years before I noticed an issue. If the params and conditions are kept pristine, the fish may never succumb to pathogens/parasites until their immune is weakened. It could be an older fish that succumbs when it doesn't while it was younger and stronger. Once there is an outbreak, it reproduces quickly and chances that it affects other fish rises. At least that's what happened with me. But I agree with a statement above (forget who said it), you can freak out and dump a bunch of meds in that only cause more problems and not fix the original. I'm glad to read you are concentrating on the conditions (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and not using meds longer than advised. It's also not a good idea to miss treatments and resume at a later date before finishing treatment with antibiotics. They have to be administered for the whole recommended duration and not used passed the recommended duration.

I feel like the 'MB Girl' here, cuz I keep bringing it up, but I want you to know how safe it is to use and it is not an antibiotic, so no worry of immunity. I used to be scared to use it, I haven't had to do a prolonged bath yet (luckily), but 30 minute baths didn't end well for my EB ram with popeye, and the next time I have to use it, I will be doing a 10 day bath.

It's effective against ich, velvet, gill flukes and other pathogens and parasites. It works by staining the infected cells and disabling their metabolism. It increases hemoglobin (oxygen carrying cells) and transforms methomoglobin(mia) which is nitrite poisoning.

Meth Blue facilitates oxygen absorption (over ammonia) for the fish and promotes healing. Thi

Also, I wanted to mention, one of my male angelfish beat up his female in a breeding tank. She was missing scales, and her analfin edges had developed fungus and were receding by the time I saw it. I did one MB paint, meaning I netted the fish, and while still in the net but out of the water, I painted her affected fins with a Q-tip soaked in MB. I laid the net on a disinfected glass pane, then almost immediately added her back into tank and let her out of the net. The dead cells turned blue at first, but a few hours later, the fin looked much better and is healing nicely today. Here's a pic when I first noticed it. It's not that great cuz I was actually just taking a pic of the whole tank.


A pic after the MB with blue fins


I know, she wasn't too happy when I first released her

Her pic two days later



And a happy pic 3 days later



Click on the pics for clarity cuz they are thumbnails

 

Also, an aquarium is a closed system with recycled water. Once the fish's immune is compromised, disease and parasites can outbreak. High nitrates, fluctuating temperature, lack of nutritious foods can all weaken the immune, making them susceptible to disease and/or parasites if they are present.

There were callamanus worms in my system for 3 years before I noticed an issue. If the params and conditions are kept pristine, the fish may never succumb to pathogens/parasites until their immune is weakened. It could be an older fish that succumbs when it doesn't while it was younger and stronger. Once there is an outbreak, it reproduces quickly and chances that it affects other fish rises. At least that's what happened with me. But I agree with a statement above (forget who said it), you can freak out and dump a bunch of meds in that only cause more problems and not fix the original. I'm glad to read you are concentrating on the conditions (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and not using meds longer than advised. It's also not a good idea to miss treatments and resume at a later date before finishing treatment with antibiotics. They have to be administered for the whole recommended duration and not used passed the recommended duration.

I feel like the 'MB Girl' here, cuz I keep bringing it up, but I want you to know how safe it is to use and it is not an antibiotic, so no worry of immunity. I used to be scared to use it, I haven't had to do a prolonged bath yet (luckily), but 30 minute baths didn't end well for my EB ram with popeye, and the next time I have to use it, I will be doing a 10 day bath.

It's effective against ich, velvet, gill flukes and other pathogens and parasites. It works by staining the dead cells and disabling their metabolism. It increases hemoglobin (oxygen carrying cells) and transforms methomoglobin(mia) which is nitrite poisoning.

Meth Blue facilitates oxygen absorption (over ammonia) for the fish and promotes healing.

your link did work.

 

Also, an aquarium is a closed system with recycled water. Once the fish's immune is compromised, disease and parasites can outbreak. High nitrates, fluctuating temperature, lack of nutritious foods can all weaken the immune, making them susceptible to disease and/or parasites if they are present.

There were callamanus worms in my system for 3 years before I noticed an issue. If the params and conditions are kept pristine, the fish may never succumb to pathogens/parasites until their immune is weakened. It could be an older fish that succumbs when it doesn't while it was younger and stronger. Once there is an outbreak, it reproduces quickly and chances that it affects other fish rises. At least that's what happened with me. But I agree with a statement above (forget who said it), you can freak out and dump a bunch of meds in that only cause more problems and not fix the original. I'm glad to read you are concentrating on the conditions (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and not using meds longer than advised. It's also not a good idea to miss treatments and resume at a later date before finishing treatment with antibiotics. They have to be administered for the whole recommended duration and not used passed the recommended duration.

I feel like the 'MB Girl' here, cuz I keep bringing it up, but I want you to know how safe it is to use and it is not an antibiotic, so no worry of immunity. I used to be scared to use it, I haven't had to do a prolonged bath yet (luckily), but 30 minute baths didn't end well for my EB ram with popeye, and the next time I have to use it, I will be doing a 10 day bath.

It's effective against ich, velvet, gill flukes and other pathogens and parasites. It works by staining the infected cells and disabling their metabolism. It increases hemoglobin (oxygen carrying cells) and transforms methomoglobin(mia) which is nitrite poisoning.

Meth Blue facilitates oxygen absorption (over ammonia) for the fish and promotes healing. This is a quote from my favorite med reference.

It talks about baths, but I believe what we consider baths to be dips. I can't post the link to the page for some reason, but you're welcome to copy and paste in browser if you want to look at it.
I'll try 1 more time to post this link here

K one more


Sorry, I don't know why I can't post this link here!

Also, I wanted to mention, one of my male angelfish beat up his female in a breeding tank. She was missing scales, abs her analfin edges had developed fungus and were receding by the time I saw it. I did one MB paint, meaning I netted the fish, added still in the net but out of the water, I painted her affected fins with a Q-tip soaked in MB. I almost immediately added her back into tank and let her back into the tank. The dead cells turned blue at first, but a few hours later, the fin looked much better and is healing nicely today. Here's a pic when I first noticed it. It's not that great cuz I was actually just taking a pic of the whole tank. View attachment 491311

A pic after the MB with blue fins
View attachment 491312
I know, she wasn't too happy when I first released her

And a happy pic 3 days later
View attachment 491318

Click on the pics for clarity cuz they are thumbnails

I agree with part of your statements but to a point. You stayed an aquarium is a closed system. There are many threads in the forum indicating fish with compromised immune systems, yet they show no signs of parasitic compromise. Most parasites require an intermediate host for survival, so they need to be introduced into a closed aquarium for them to be available to invade a host.

Regarding the assumption that ones fish has parasites, this can be counterproductive as using medications when not necessary will only cause for pathogens to become more resistant to these treatments

 

I agree with part of your statements but to a point. You stayed an aquarium is a closed system. There are many threads in the forum indicating fish with compromised immune systems, yet they show no signs of parasitic compromise. Most parasites require an intermediate host for survival, so they need to be introduced into a closed aquarium for them to be available to invade a host.

Regarding the assumption that ones fish has parasites, this can be counterproductive as using medications when not necessary will only cause for pathogens to become more resistant to these treatments

Ok np. Also agree with you. I'm not saying every fish with a compromised immune becomes ill. I had an intestinal nematode in my showtank, it was bought in by some adult angelfish from a fellow aquarist's tank which I did not QT because I took his word and got burned. I didn't lose any fish until 3 years later, and I lost all of them plus some of my own within a 6 month period after that. Not every fish perished and I don't believe every fish became infected, but I think half of them did within that 3 year period.

I as well believe parasites like ich have to be introduced into a closed aquarium. That's why I prophylactically treat new fish in QT for internal parasites. I don't really know how not to assume new fish have parasites, especially wild caught fish. I also would never use antibiotics as prophylaxis because that only causes immunity. Antibiotics are an absolute last resort for me for everything. But this is going off topic...

Regarding the OP's situation, I don't think it's parasitic, just mentioning that MB is effective against some of them since it was brought up. It's the antibacterial and healing properties that I think would helpful.

Sorry if i'm missing something

 

Also, an aquarium is a closed system with recycled water. Once the fish's immune is compromised, disease and parasites can outbreak. High nitrates, fluctuating temperature, lack of nutritious foods can all weaken the immune, making them susceptible to disease and/or parasites if they are present.

There were callamanus worms in my system for 3 years before I noticed an issue. If the params and conditions are kept pristine, the fish may never succumb to pathogens/parasites until their immune is weakened. It could be an older fish that succumbs when it doesn't while it was younger and stronger. Once there is an outbreak, it reproduces quickly and chances that it affects other fish rises. At least that's what happened with me. But I agree with a statement above (forget who said it), you can freak out and dump a bunch of meds in that only cause more problems and not fix the original. I'm glad to read you are concentrating on the conditions (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and not using meds longer than advised. It's also not a good idea to miss treatments and resume at a later date before finishing treatment with antibiotics. They have to be administered for the whole recommended duration and not used passed the recommended duration.

I feel like the 'MB Girl' here, cuz I keep bringing it up, but I want you to know how safe it is to use and it is not an antibiotic, so no worry of immunity. I used to be scared to use it, I haven't had to do a prolonged bath yet (luckily), but 30 minute baths didn't end well for my EB ram with popeye, and the next time I have to use it, I will be doing a 10 day bath.

It's effective against ich, velvet, gill flukes and other pathogens and parasites. It works by staining the infected cells and disabling their metabolism. It increases hemoglobin (oxygen carrying cells) and transforms methomoglobin(mia) which is nitrite poisoning.

Meth Blue facilitates oxygen absorption (over ammonia) for the fish and promotes healing. This is a quote from my favorite med reference.

It talks about baths, but I believe what we consider baths to be dips. I can't post the link to the page for some reason, but you're welcome to copy and paste in browser if you want to look at it.
I'll try 1 more time to post this link here

K one more


Sorry, I don't know why I can't post this link here!

Also, I wanted to mention, one of my male angelfish beat up his female in a breeding tank. She was missing scales, and her analfin edges had developed fungus and were receding by the time I saw it. I did one MB paint, meaning I netted the fish, and while still in the net but out of the water, I painted her affected fins with a Q-tip soaked in MB. I laid the net on a disinfected glass pane, then almost immediately added her back into tank and let her out of the net. The dead cells turned blue at first, but a few hours later, the fin looked much better and is healing nicely today. Here's a pic when I first noticed it. It's not that great cuz I was actually just taking a pic of the whole tank. View attachment 491311

A pic after the MB with blue fins
View attachment 491312
I know, she wasn't too happy when I first released her

Her pic two days later
View attachment 491332

And a happy pic 3 days later
View attachment 491318

Click on the pics for clarity cuz they are thumbnails

Yes I dosed one full round of furan-2 and kanaplex. I've found one round of treatment to be sufficient and I think here it did the trick. I know kanaplex can damage kidneys so I was very careful not to overdose or interrupt treatment.

I live the UK so getting kanaplex etc is hard and expensive. I only use antibiotics as a last resort like if I have to deal with dropsy or nasty internal bacteria.


His fins are still frayed but chunks aren't falling off anymore. he's a lot more active, swimming around scavenging for food.

Annoyingly he seems to have developed mild ich so I've added some salt to his tank. Perked up even more.

I'm glad my params are back to normal and that the culprit, pH identified. Still trying to work out what was leaching in my tank but I've removed everything apart from plants and the driftwood.

I will consider the mblue. 3 of my females in the 90g have developed pretty severe ich. One even has it inside her mouth!! So I was considering moving them to the my 5 gallon QT tank and adding mblue to try and help them breathe easier, plus target the ich. Plus treating the main tank with paraguard to prevent the others from getting sick too

 

Ok np. Also agree with you. I'm not saying every fish with a compromised immune becomes ill. I had an intestinal nematode in my showtank, it was bought in by some adult angelfish from a fellow aquarist's tank which I did not QT because I took his word and got burned. I didn't lose any fish until 3 years later, and I lost all of them plus some of my own within a 6 month period after that. Not every fish perished and I don't believe every fish became infected, but I think half of them did within that 3 year period.

I as well believe parasites like ich have to be introduced into a closed aquarium. That's why I prophylactically treat new fish in QT for internal parasites. I don't really know how not to assume new fish have parasites, especially wild caught fish. I also would never use antibiotics as prophylaxis because that only causes immunity. Antibiotics are an absolute last resort for me for everything. But this is going off topic...

Regarding the OP's situation, I don't think it's parasitic, just mentioning that MB is effective against some of them since it was brought up. It's the antibacterial and healing properties that I think would helpful.

Sorry if i'm missing something

Sorry to hear that happened to you! Callamnus worms sound disgusting

I did not introduce anything new plant or fish wise to my tank but it seems I have an ich outbreak in both. I assume the stress of everything?

Not a good pic but here's one of the affected fish. I'll try and get some better ones after uni.

Take some tap water, test it and then let it sit in a bucket for 24-48 hours and test again. As CO2 leaves the water column during aging and oxygen dissolves in, PH will rise.

Right, tap water pH is same as my tanks! Definitely something leaching in the 20g

 

I would gently and slowly raise the temp of your tank up to 86°F with the temp raising one degree (F) every one to two days, at 85°F the ich stops breeding, but at 86°F the ich dies, but you must keep the temp up at 86°F for about a week to kill the eggs that will hatch more ich. but if ot is not ich, but instead if it is velvet, you must turn off the tank light and you should stop raising the temp, and then you should put a blanket or towel on top of the tannk so theat no light can enter the tank, because velvet will feed on fish and on light for food.

 

I would gently and slowly raise the temp of your tank up to 86°F with the temp raising one degree (F) every one to two days, at 85°F the ich stops breeding, but at 86°F the ich dies, but you must keep the temp up at 86°F for about a week to kill the eggs that will hatch more ich. but if ot is not ich, but instead if it is velvet, you must turn off the tank light and you should stop raising the temp, and then you should put a blanket or towel on top of the tannk so theat no light can enter the tank, because velvet will feed on fish and on light for food.

Currently raising temp and dosing paraguard.

 

Ich pictures.

I think this is ich, albeit severe? It's not my aquarium sand coating them. Mainly affecting by divided ladies. Everything was fine, then... This

No new plants, fish etc have been introduced

Admins/mods let me know if I should make a separate thread for this

 

Omg i'm so sorry for all your troubles. Not trying to cause trouble, but I'm a bit perturbed with the 'reputable' sourced breeder that sent you these fish. I can't believe they were sending such large fish. I would never.

Here's some info for you, I'm not sure what's going on or what to suggest. Poor ladies. Could it be costia?
Note:

Costia can survive in temperatures greater than 86 degrees F.

What do you think?

If it is, Paraguard should help them.

 

Ich pictures.

I think this is ich, albeit severe? It's not my aquarium sand coating them. Mainly affecting by divided ladies. Everything was fine, then... This

No new plants, fish etc have been introduced

Admins/mods let me know if I should make a separate thread for this

View attachment 491548View attachment 491549View attachment 491550

ICH usually looks worse before it gets better, those poor water nuggets hang in there

 

Omg i'm so sorry for all your troubles. Not trying to cause trouble, but I'm a bit perturbed with the 'reputable' sourced breeder that sent you these fish. I can't believe they were sending such large fish. I would never.

Here's some info for you, I'm not sure what's going on or what to suggest. Poor ladies. Could it be costia?
Note:

What do you think?

If it is, Paraguard should help them.

My phone doesn't seem to want to open them.

Could be costia? Could explain the fin fraying

I haven't any problems with the ebay seller until now. My black oranda was from him and he definitely came with swim bladder problems. I noticed right away when he was in the transport bag.

The fish I wanted originally apparently died after spawning so the seller sold me this fish at a discount. Wondering if instead he palmed this problem fish? I mean I love the lil guy but what extra trouble for me!


I think the kanaplex and furan-2 seems to have sorted out the swd though. He's still a bit lethargic because of the fin rot but when he swims he's mostly normal.

To me it looks like severe ich coupled with fin rot. I can see it's coating they're gills and inside their mouths. They're pretty weak, mostly hide in my plants but they are still eating.

I'm slowly increasing the temp of the 90g, dosing paraguard and added a half dose of a salt (have a bn pleco in there).

Fingers crossed everything goes back to normal soon

 

ICH usually looks worse before it gets better, those poor water nuggets hang in there

I'm going to use water nuggets as term from from now on

They're still eating and they swim a bit though thy do look awful.

Dosing paraguard rn

 

that is not ich, that is velvet, immediately shutoff your tank lights and dose with paragaurd and put a towel on your tank because the velvet feeds on light and on fish and it has a higher death rate than ich does!

 

If the treatment for Ich doesn't work, it's most likely Costia. Ich responds to aldehyde, but Costia may need formaldehyde. I encourage you to look at Costia because it causes all if the symptoms like skin falling off, covered in white spots that look like ich, but different. I agree, it doesn't look like ich to me....frayed fins, if they get into gills, a hard time breathing. Also a common goldfish parasite. Can't figure out why the links won't work?

 

it is not ich but instead it is velvet.

 

it is not ich but instead it is velvet.

Not trying to argue, but velvet is harder to see and smaller dots, like gold dust. I had velvet on some platies at one time, I could hardly tell. Is it not?

 

this is velvet on one of my once living julie fry, I am still fighting the velvet, but the julidochromis died form it.