29 Gallon Tank Seeding new tank query for 29g

Tropicalfella

If I were to shake my filter media and sponge in my newly setup tank’s water… would this do anything in terms of helping kick start the cycle or add some bacteria? As I can’t really seed the newer tank with any media from my established tank as it’s smaller. Established tank (10G). New tank (29G).
 

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Huckleberry77

You could try squeezing the established filter media right onto the new filter intake or the new filter media. What type is the new filter? And what is the old filter?
 

SparkyJones

doesn't matter if the new tank or the old tank is smaller or larger, it's in the filter media bacterial colony which is relatively close to the same regardless of size of tank or filter, we are talking about millions of bacteria in an established filter. you can colonize a sponge filter in a 20g for 5-10x 1 inch fish, or you can colonize it for 100x 1 inch fish. the size of the filter thing is more about circulation, water turn over and flow, not the biological it can hold, because it holds millions and millions in near no space really.
but if you had the biological filter space of say 4 cubic feet, you could get an even larger colony than in a 1/4 cubic foot with enough bioload to it to feed it, otherwise it's just spread out further over more area.a tiny spot could be killed off all at once, more surface area less chance of it all dying at once and dying in pockets instead and then the healthy sections repopulating the die off areas.

But you could move the filter and the stock from the 10g to the 29g and it should function exactly the same as long as you don't increase the stocking just yet. you might even get away with the biological that's in the 10g and substrate if the tank is 3+ months old or older stick in a new sponge and as long as its lightly stocked it could function on the 20% until it's had a couple days to multiply and recover and start setting up in the new filter media.

I mean worst case the 10gs filter media could size up to a full stock of the 29g in about 45-60 hours. but could immediately handle the 10gs bioload.
It's the early part of bacteria building that takes all the time, when it's millions or 10 of millions multiplying each time at the end of the cycle, it goes really quick so even undersized it will size up in short order.
 

Tropicalfella

doesn't matter if the new tank or the old tank is smaller or larger, it's in the filter media bacterial colony which is relatively close to the same regardless of size of tank or filter, we are talking about millions of bacteria in an established filter. you can colonize a sponge filter in a 20g for 5-10x 1 inch fish, or you can colonize it for 100x 1 inch fish. the size of the filter thing is more about circulation, water turn over and flow, not the biological it can hold, because it holds millions and millions in near no space really.
but if you had the biological filter space of say 4 cubic feet, you could get an even larger colony than in a 1/4 cubic foot with enough bioload to it to feed it, otherwise it's just spread out further over more area.a tiny spot could be killed off all at once, more surface area less chance of it all dying at once and dying in pockets instead and then the healthy sections repopulating the die off areas.

But you could move the filter and the stock from the 10g to the 29g and it should function exactly the same as long as you don't increase the stocking just yet. you might even get away with the biological that's in the 10g and substrate if the tank is 3+ months old or older stick in a new sponge and as long as its lightly stocked it could function on the 20% until it's had a couple days to multiply and recover and start setting up in the new filter media.

I mean worst case the 10gs filter media could size up to a full stock of the 29g in about 45-60 hours. but could immediately handle the 10gs bioload.
It's the early part of bacteria building that takes all the time, when it's millions or 10 of millions multiplying each time at the end of the cycle, it goes really quick so even undersized it will size up in short order.
Hi thanks for the reply!

see the thing is the stock I have in the 10G though I don’t want to move that over or any substrate or anything because I want a completely new stock in the new tank (29G). I’d prefer not to disturb the already established 10G. It is also a fluval flex so the filter is built into the back of it so I couldn’t move it over only media if I wished but the media I have in it is just enough to keep the tank in balance.
The filter is due a monthly maitenance soon and I was just wondering if I squeezed the filter sponges and media into the new tank would it be of any benefit?
Thank you.
 

WRWAquarium

Hi thanks for the reply!

see the thing is the stock I have in the 10G though I don’t want to move that over or any substrate or anything because I want a completely new stock in the new tank (29G). I’d prefer not to disturb the already established 10G. It is also a fluval flex so the filter is built into the back of it so I couldn’t move it over only media if I wished but the media I have in it is just enough to keep the tank in balance.
The filter is due a monthly maitenance soon and I was just wondering if I squeezed the filter sponges and media into the new tank would it be of any benefit?
Thank you.
Squeezing the gunk out of the dirty established media into the new filter media will introduce some of the good bacteria but not as much as the cycled media itself. Definately worth doing.

Assume your dosing ammonia?
 

SparkyJones

Hi thanks for the reply!

see the thing is the stock I have in the 10G though I don’t want to move that over or any substrate or anything because I want a completely new stock in the new tank (29G). I’d prefer not to disturb the already established 10G. It is also a fluval flex so the filter is built into the back of it so I couldn’t move it over only media if I wished but the media I have in it is just enough to keep the tank in balance.
The filter is due a monthly maitenance soon and I was just wondering if I squeezed the filter sponges and media into the new tank would it be of any benefit?
Thank you.
It's unlikely free floating bacteria will "take" to the new tank in any significant way to shorten the cycle much, unless it's handled the same way you'd use the biological booster products and redosed and redosed until it took.
I'd think it would function more like a bacteria booster doing it that way and squeezing out filters, which might shorten the cycle if the bacteria takes in a significant number. but I don't know how short it would be, if shortened at all. better than not doing it I suppose.

Beneficial bacteria multiples (doubles roughly every 15 -20 hours) once colonized and established a colony grows exponentially to meet the resources available.

You'd be surprised how much bacteria there really is in a small established filter, how fast it can reproduce and recovers. I mean you could technically cut your media in half,and top off with new media and the half left behind will double in a day or two back to 100%. while the half moved will double also to 100% in a similar time frame as long as neither were upended from their established colonizing sites.

I've grown fish fry by the hundreds, they start tiny, they eat and produce ammonia and grow. they will outgrow a small tank and it will become crowded and they will get stunted.
What they won't do though is outgrow the biological filter. the beneficial bacteria colony will grow along with them and their ammonia production, from near nothing, 1/2-1-2-3-4-5ppm in 24 hours processed all the way to nitrates, even off a single sponge filter. that's not to say there won't be a ton of poop, and a ton of uneaten food to clean up all the time, but it will just keep growing with the bioload like that.

You can absolutely overwhelm a biological filter by putting in more waste production than it can handle at once, and create an ammonia or nitrite spike, but even a small space can colonize to process a massive load of ammonia if allowed the time and ammonia/nitrites to do it.

For instance you can split your filter material in half and top off with new material, and the two halves will double in size, (barring a die off for some reason like forgetting to dechlorinate) in about a day, maybe 48 hours.
Don't look at it as the surface area of a filter, look at it as how tiny bacteria really is, 1-2 million can fit on the head of a pin, 2mm of space.
50% becomes 100%.
10% becomes 20% becomes 40%, becomes 80% becomes 160%
as long as the resources are there for it to multiply and not more than it can handle during that period, and you don't overwhelm it, it won't crash on you.
If you use prime it would also give you that safety net for the biological to catch up with the load in one or both tanks if you have concerns you reduced it by too much.

I'm suggesting to move half the filter material to the new tank and half the stock. dose both with a standard dose of prime as a safety net in case there is an ammonia rise, and it honestly should handle that load just fine, once you're sure of the cycle in both tanks, move those fish back to the 10g, and both tanks are cycled for at least HALF the stocking of the 10g immediately and then can be sized up from there with your new stocking, and can add your new fish quite soon, a couple days, maybe give it a week of testing to feel confident it worked if you like.

It should not skip a beat in either tank, water volume and ammonia doesn't change, colony is still sized for the load in both cases.
if the filter could handle the ammonia of all the fish in the 10g, half of that filter material can handle half of the fish in the 10g and the other half in the 29g. you can move them back and switch out for your new fish and size up the ammonia load and bigger colonies to handle it after you are sure both tanks have cycled. Which they will doing it that way, almost immediately.
 

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