Secondary Filtration

Hello fish keepers!

Have a 60 gallon community freshwater, and currently running an Eheim 2215 canister.

I'd like to add an Aquaclear, but I'm stuck between the 70 and the 110.

OR, I can get a good deal on a new SUNSUN 303B Canister.

I'd like some input from others on what you think is better for my tank. I appreciate any input!

Info:
- 60 Gallon (48x16x16)
- Freshwater Community (Tetras, Gourami's, Danios, Cory's, ect)
- Lightly Planted (real plants)
- Eheim 2215 Canister (3xfoams, sub pro, floss)
- Will be adding more stock.....

 

CORRECTION: Tank is 48x20x16

 

Yes it looks like you are a little under filtered. You need about 480-600 gph and the 2215 is only 164 gph. I would suggest the Seachem Tidal filters, Tidal 75 (350 gph) or 110 (450 gph) for their advanced features no other HOB has.

The have these advantages over all other HOB filters.

1. A flow knob to control 80% of the water flow. Each notch is a 10% increase or decrease so you can manage your water flow to slow your water so it stays in contact with your media longer which is better for beneficial bacteria.

2. Draws water from three locations, top (skimmer), middle and bottom for better water filtering, not just the bottom.

3. Another knob to totally shut off the bottom intake if you only want to filter the middle and top of your tank only.

4. If the mechanical media at the lower portion of the media basket ever gets clogged it has a slightly higher bypass in the basket so the water will still be filtered through your media and continues to run efficiently.

5. Media basket locks in place so it will never rise up pushing the media cage up possibly causing an overflow and flooding your floor.

6. Removable no spill media basket comes out for easy just cleaning using the lid as a no spill carrying tray. No need to turn the filter off either just remove the basket.

7. Self priming w/submerged under water pump so it’s quiet and you never have to worry about it not starting recovering from maintenance or a power failure, especially if you are not home.

8. Includes the best media, Seachem Matrix, that handles 100 gallons that can harbor anaerobic bacteria needed to reduce Nitrates.

9. Self cleaning impeller. From Seachem Support: The self cleaning feature of the Tidal Filters can be explained by the structure and build of the impeller housing. There is a groove in the Tidal 55 that goes through the slot where the impeller stays and it will continuously clean the impeller of any debris or buildup. For Tidal 75 and 110, where the impeller goes that continuously flushes a little bit of water through the back to keep it cool and quite clean. The 75 and 110 have the same mechanism.

A canister at 370 gph will work too. Plenty on Amazon rated 4+ stars and above.

 

Welcome and nice tank !
I love aquaclears and don't think you can go wrong with either the 110 or 70 .

 

Welcome and nice tank !
I love aquaclears and don't think you can go wrong with either the 110 or 70 .

Thank you! I've used them for years, and never had a major problem. I appreciate the reply!

 

Yes it looks like you are a little under filtered. You need about 480-600 gph and the 2215 is only 164 gph. I would suggest the Seachem Tidal filters, Tidal 75 (350 gph) or 110 (450 gph) for their advanced features no other HOB has.

Thanks for the reply! Been through 2 Tidals. A 55 and a 75. Both were returned as they did not meet my standards. I tried to see the potential, but they failed compared to my AC filters.

Thanks very much for the reply!

 

Have a 60 gallon community freshwater, and currently running an Eheim 2215 canister.

I don't have a filter recommendation but I wanted say how much I like your retaining wall. I've not seen that before. Excellent idea.

Yes it looks like you are a little under filtered. You need about 480-600 gph and the 2215 is only 164 gph.

I've seen you mention the 10x thing a number of times and just want to verify something. You're saying the manufacturer claimed flow rate for the filter should be ten times the tank capacity, right? This compensates for the fact that these ratings are typically for an empty canister with zero lift, meaning that real world usage of the filter will probably see half the claimed flow.

 

I've seen you mention the 10x thing a number of times and just want to verify something. You're saying the manufacturer claimed flow rate for the filter should be ten times the tank capacity, right? This compensates for the fact that these ratings are typically for an empty canister with zero lift, meaning that real world usage of the filter will probably see half the claimed flow.

The general rule of thumb is your fish tank should turn over your water volume at least 4x per hour for best efficiency. All manufactures rate their pumps at the head level only. This means their ratings do not include head pump lift (canisters typically 3 feet), filter media baskets, filter media itself, tubing length, U bends from the input tube and output tubes or even the 90 degree bend for your spray bar. All this alone will reduce the flow by at least 25% right out of the box.

Now add all your media which is jam packed with course, medium, fine pads, bio ceramic rings, hard media like Matrix, Biohome or and now it gets dirty and clogged in weeks. This adds another 25% reduction. So now you have a 50% restriction in water flow. Which now leaves you at 2x your flow rate and you need 4x to run correctly. This is why you should get a filter with at least 8x-10x flow rate (manufactures spec) because of this 50% reduction will bring you to the 4x recommended flow. Canister filters hold more media than a HOB, they can have a little less flow if you want (5x-6x) but 8x will cover both types of filters. Always best to have slower water flow over your media than more, so the water stays in contact with the media longer to promote maximum bacteria growth and still keeps good water movement in your tank.

 

i'd go with the 110. it has a significantly larger media box.

 

This is why you should get a filter with at least 8x-10x flow rate (manufactures spec) because of this 50% reduction will bring you to the 4x recommended flow.

So, pretty much what I thought. If I may suggest, it might be a good idea to make clear you're talking manufacturer stated flow rates rather than actual flow rates. People might get the idea they need an actual 200 GPH in their 20 gallon tank and end up with highly disturbed fish and uprooted plants.

 

So, pretty much what I thought. If I may suggest, it might be a good idea to make clear you're talking manufacturer stated flow rates rather than actual flow rates. People might get the idea they need an actual 200 GPH in their 20 gallon tank and end up with highly disturbed fish and uprooted plants.

This is why you should get a filter with at least 8x-10x flow rate (manufactures spec) because of this 50% reduction will bring you to the 4x recommended flow.

Yeah, I do say that.

 

Side note, canisters don't have to deal with head height. Water seeks equilibrium. This only applies to systems where the intake is below the out take. Not a thing for canisters.

I would do the ac 110. You can slow the flow if necessary, but it provides an oxygen rich environment for your bb, not so much inside a canister.

 

Side note, canisters don't have to deal with head height. Water seeks equilibrium. This only applies to systems where the intake is below the out take. Not a thing for canisters.

You probably mean HOBs since the input and output are at the same height. In a canister once you add all your sponges (coarse, medium, fine), solid media and weeks of gunk to plug the filter it's tough for that little motor to push the water up due to gravity and keep flow. That's why just about all canisters have a max lift height of about 4.5 feet no matter how big the pump.

 

Aquaclear 110 wins the battle! LoL. I have owned Aquaclear filters for many years, but this is my first 110 model. Beautiful machine.

Thanks for all the help!

 

You probably mean HOBs since the input and output are at the same height. In a canister once you add all your sponges (coarse, medium, fine), solid media and weeks of gunk to plug the filter it's tough for that little motor to push the water up due to gravity and keep flow. That's why just about all canisters have a max lift height of about 4.5 feet no matter how big the pump.

I dis agree.
Turn off your canister and lower the return 2 inches below the tanks water level on the outside of your tank ..It will syphon out ! No power no head pressure..
Canisters suck ,just me but actually read a couple post here the other day saying the same from people who still have them ..
The sludge and that slows them down and not being able to know about it [easily] is the owners problem ! When my aquaclear is full of gunk it tells me ! And in the same fashion is easy to clean ..

 

I dis agree.
Turn off your canister and lower the return 2 inches below the tanks water level on the outside of your tank ..It will syphon out ! No power no head pressure..
Canisters suck ,just me but actually read a couple post here the other day saying the same from people who still have them ..
The sludge and that slows them down and not being able to know about it [easily] is the owners problem ! When my aquaclear is full of gunk it tells me ! And in the same fashion is easy to clean ..

Just saying that all canisters have a maximum head height lift. The Fluval FX6 is strong but it's maximum is 6.9 feet.

 

I do agree canisters tend to gunk up, but there is evidence that a lot of that gunk is actually beneficial to life, albeit not to the life of the pump, or its ability to do its job.

The syphon proves my point. It helps the pump since water seeks to equalize. Take a piece of clear hose and fill it 2/3s with water. No matter where you hold the hose, as long as there is a u shape and the water isn't hitting an obstacle, the water will remain level between each side of the U. The big thing these pumps are overcoming is friction in the hosing, and speed through it. You can see for yourself with a small pump. Put it in a bucket and attach same size tubing to each end of the pump and then prime it. Turn it on and note the flow. With the bucket full of water, disconnect the inlet tube. Notice the flow slow, or even stop. This is what I'm getting at in regards to head height when you have a siphon system like a canister. Sorry for the derail OP!

The other thing people forget about canisters, especially when talking about gunk, is they are either more gunky because they are outperforming the other filtration, or because we neglect them for 3 to 6 months at a time. A prefilter prevents a lot of this gunk, but requires frequent cleaning.

 

I do agree canisters tend to gunk up, but there is evidence that a lot of that gunk is actually beneficial to life, albeit not to the life of the pump, or its ability to do its job.

The syphon proves my point. It helps the pump since water seeks to equalize. Take a piece of clear hose and fill it 2/3s with water. No matter where you hold the hose, as long as there is a u shape and the water isn't hitting an obstacle, the water will remain level between each side of the U. The big thing these pumps are overcoming is friction in the hosing, and speed through it. You can see for yourself with a small pump. Put it in a bucket and attach same size tubing to each end of the pump and then prime it. Turn it on and note the flow. With the bucket full of water, disconnect the inlet tube. Notice the flow slow, or even stop. This is what I'm getting at in regards to head height when you have a siphon system like a canister. Sorry for the derail OP!

The other thing people forget about canisters, especially when talking about gunk, is they are either more gunky because they are outperforming the other filtration, or because we neglect them for 3 to 6 months at a time. A prefilter prevents a lot of this gunk, but requires frequent cleaning.

No problem. Click below and select the first search item for a good explanation Head Pressure and how 'Real World' Canister Flow rates...

Head Pressure in Aquarium and Pond Water Pumps/Filters

 

No problem. Click below and select the first search item for a good explanation Head Pressure and how 'Real World' Canister Flow rates...

Head Pressure in Aquarium and Pond Water Pumps/Filters

The link just went to Google but I used your keywords and think I got to the correct page. About halfway down, they mention what I'm talking about, and then trail off in vagueness adding uv filters, diffusers, etc. And then bring back head height. The article doesn't differentiate between the two. I get what they are saying and why they word it that way. Invariably, a pond pump is either drawing water from below and dumping it near its height, or the opposite. That explains why the lump it all together.

Near as I can tell from digging on civil engineering forums, a closed loop pump only has to overcome friction. While ours isn't completely closed, I believe the theories and laws still apply

 

The link just went to Google but I used your keywords and think I got to the correct page. About halfway down, they mention what I'm talking about, and then trail off in vagueness adding uv filters, diffusers, etc. And then bring back head height. The article doesn't differentiate between the two. I get what they are saying and why they word it that way. Invariably, a pond pump is either drawing water from below and dumping it near its height, or the opposite. That explains why the lump it all together.

Near as I can tell from digging on civil engineering forums, a closed loop pump only has to overcome friction. While ours isn't completely closed, I believe the theories and laws still apply

This is what is important for most users.

Here is an actual test using the Filstar S and timing its flow to fill a container.

• Level with the aquarium - 164.53 gph
• 24" below the aquarium - 153.00 gph (-7%)
  
• 52" below the aquarium - 142.87 gph (-13%)

These results were with a filter with NO resistance in the filter (all media was removed). The tubing was not cut, shortened or lengthened (as tubing length can also change results by adding more water resistance).

 

This is what is important for most users.

Here is an actual test using the Filstar S and timing its flow to fill a container.

• Level with the aquarium - 164.53 gph
• 24" below the aquarium - 153.00 gph (-7%)
  
• 52" below the aquarium - 142.87 gph (-13%)

These results were with a filter with NO resistance in the filter (all media was removed). The tubing was not cut, shortened or lengthened (as tubing length can also change results by adding more water resistance).

Thanks. I must have glossed over that somehow. I would argue the relatively slight flow loss is due to a canister not being completely closed, and now I'm curious as to why that has something to do with it. I'll hold my tongue a little bit whenever this comes up, but the small numbers in loss when compared to an open system like a sump nags at my brain.

 

Thanks. I must have glossed over that somehow. I would argue the relatively slight flow loss is due to a canister not being completely closed, and now I'm curious as to why that has something to do with it. I'll hold my tongue a little bit whenever this comes up, but the small numbers in loss when compared to an open system like a sump nags at my brain.

Remember... without media.

 

Remember... without media.

I get that. Also, interesting side tidbit. Canister height limits are to guarantee seals, not pressure or flow. You set that canister down too low, and there is going to be too much pressure on the seals from the siphon.

It seems head loss is attributed in our not quite a closed system due to momentum, differing heights of output usually being higher than inputs (although probably not in the case of the study you showed,) and the fact that pulling and pushing are not equal like they would be in a closed system. Interesting discussion and research. Thanks!

 

Yes it looks like you are a little under filtered. You need about 480-600 gph and the 2215 is only 164 gph.

Yeah, I do say that.

Perhaps sometimes, but not always. Most of the posts I've seen where you recommend the Tidal are just like the one above. "You need about 480-600 gph." No qualification about that referring to manufacturer's stated maximum flow rate as opposed to actual expected flow rate. I only mentioned this because I've seen it several times and was initially bewildered by the high flow rate recommendation. It was only after considering it for some time that I thought I understood.

Just a suggestion about perhaps improving your informative posts.

 

Perhaps sometimes, but not always. Most of the posts I've seen where you recommend the Tidal are just like the one above. "You need about 480-600 gph." No qualification about that referring to manufacturer's stated maximum flow rate as opposed to actual expected flow rate. I only mentioned this because I've seen it several times and was initially bewildered by the high flow rate recommendation. It was only after considering it for some time that I thought I understood.

Just a suggestion about perhaps improving your informative posts.

Well it kinda gets old posting the same information over and over. That's why I just paraphrase it when needed and expand on it when asked. Just like you.