Secondary bacterial infection update

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by annewaldron, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    30 gallon planted
    Espei rasboras
    Flame tetras
    Otos
    Furcata rainbowfish
    Amano shrimp
    Nerite snails

    My 30 gallon tank came down with Ich on 12/18 I started raising the temp on 12/19. On 12/26 I took forum advice and raised temp from 84-ish to 87/88 because Ich was still present. Unfortunately the tetras developed a secondary bacterial infection (whitish patches) by 12/30 and all the tetras immediately went into QT.

    At that time I only had Maracyn2 on hand, so I started with that in the QT. The following day I brought home Coppersafe and Maracyn1, but hesitated adding the Maracyn1 because I'd read so much about it being more likely to crash the cycle in the QT, and dealing with daily QT WCs and diseases in both tanks just seemed overwhelming to me. So I decided to just see how things went with the Maracyn2 and Coppersafe. The first 2 days I reduced the QT temp to 73/74, and I've slowly raised it to 77.

    So today I'm on Day 5 of Maracyn2 (just added 5th dose) and it's been 4 days since the addition of Coppersafe. I've done 2 small vacuums of bottom-dwelling detritus, removing no more than 30% of the water.

    I pulled over the light from the main tank this morning and observed the tetras in QT. At the beginning of this bacterial infection, there were at least 5 tetras with whitish patches, two seemed to be the worst affected, and one of those two had an additional bump on its side that was surrounded by the whitish stuff. Today, all but the worst two look good, and the worst two look significantly improved, with the whitish patches significantly diminished (but still present). The bump on the one is 1/3 of its original size (but still present).

    My questions are:
    1. Because of the WCs, do I need to add any additional Coppersafe?
    2. Should I be keeping the temp below 77?
    3. Since I have seen improvement in the last 4 days, should I assume the Maracyn2 is working according to schedule and that Maracyn1 is not needed?
    4. At what point should I consider re-dosing Maracyn2 if the patches don't disappear? (How long after first dose)
    5. If I do need to re-dose, should I add in the Maracyn2?
     
  2. AquariaUKValued MemberMember

    I'm no expert but that sounds like columnaris which gets worse with higher temps so 74 for the moment would be good. Do not stop the doses because the infection can come back VERY quickly. I might be corrected by someone else though so wait for another response.
     




  3. Tigress HillWell Known MemberMember

    Post a picture please. It definitely sounds like columnaris. Don't raise the temperature and continue with the daily water changes & meds in both tanks. This disease is EXTREMELY contagious.
     
  4. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Yes I learned all about columnaris some time ago. Pics now wouldn't show anything, but this is what they looked like at the beginning before putting in the QT:
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1357250027.228105.jpg
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1357250041.257445.jpg


    My questions are:
    1. Because of the WCs, do I need to add any additional Coppersafe?
    2. Should I lower the temp from 77 back to 74?
    3. Since I have seen improvement in the last 4 days, should I assume the Maracyn2 is working according to schedule and that Maracyn1 is not needed?
    4. At what point should I consider re-dosing Maracyn2 if the patches don't disappear? (How long after first dose)
    5. If I do need to re-dose, should I add in the Maracyn2?
     
  5. JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    1. All I know about coppersafe is that it kills inverts and can make keeping inverts in the tank later a challenge. Normally, when you do a water change you have to add more meds in to maintain the concentration, though I generally never do water changes while medicating, as most of the directions say not to. With meds, I follow the instructions.

    2. Yes, I would keep it at like 75. Most of the species we keep do not need to be kept in such warm water as people think. 80 is a standard, but that's unnecessarily high for many of the "tropical" fish in the trade. Since things were improving at the lower temp, I would keep it there till things are better. If it's working, leave it be :)

    3. Yes, since you've seen improvement I would continue with the 2 and not use the 1.

    4. If the fish are not better by the end of the treatment, you can give the fish a short reprieve before the next round. I think there should be instructions pertaining to successive treatments. If not, I would wait a couple days and do the next round.

    5. Isn't the maracyn 2 what you used to treat them that is making things better?
     
  6. CichlidnutFishlore VIPMember

    Coppersafe is bad for inverts. It's really good at killing external parasites. If you don't have inverts, it does a great job and is safer than using things like malachite green. I keep a bottle on hand.
     
  7. JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Then it sounds like you shouldn't have to continue treating with coppersafe.
     
  8. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    I meant "should I add Maracyn1" if I decide to re-treat. I am treating them now with Maracyn2- sorry about that- got the numbers mixed up!

    I get to worrying about ammonia building up which is why I've done a few mini-vacs. There gets to be a "collection of poo" in one area at the bottom. I'll just keep testing the water and stop doing the WCs. Day 5 dose went in this morning after the mini-vac, so I'll leave it be.

    The one small hope I have that it's not columnaris is that the temp is still up in the main tank and none of the other fish have any cottony anything on them. In fact, it's day 2 without Ich spots, so I think those guys may be coming out of the woods!
     
  9. JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    If the 2 is working, then stick with the 2. If round 2 with 2 doesn't help, then after another break I would try 1. I would wait maybe a week, if possible, before doing round 3 with 1.
     
  10. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Got it.

    I noticed something when I was observing the fish in QT with the aquarium light tonight. I'd placed a rock in there from the main tank, partially because I knew it had beneficial bacteria on it, and partially because I knew it would at least be something they could swim around in there (It's a big rock).

    Tonight I noticed the rock had patches of white fuzz on it in different areas. Now I could just attribute this to rotting food or poop, but it reminds me of an unfortunate happening in the QT five months ago with some new Harlequin Rasboras. They started getting that lip fungus that can be common with rasboras, and then one died, and then two days later when I came home from work, I found the entire tank filled with floating white fuzz and the rest had died or were failing fast. (I had tested the water daily, and ammonia tests had come back 0)

    I'm not sure if that was columnaris or if some kind of fungus invaded the tank, but looking at this rock tonight made me nervous. I pulled it out and scrubbed it off and gave it a quick soak in a mild bleach solution. I probably won't put it back in the QT.

    Is this kind of white fuzz on objects in the tank perhaps just due to rotting food? All ammonia tests are coming back 0. (This makes me want to vacuum again, but I'm going to hold off!)

    As for the fish, they're looking even better than they did yesterday. So that's good.
     
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