SeaChem Stability

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dfisherman

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Been using Stability for 6 days now on a 10 gal tank with 5 guppies. Ammonia still running 1.0 -2.0, no no2 or no3. I don't think it is doing anything. Would it be safe to do a 70-80% water change, wash out the filters and start over with Tetra Safe start? This tank has been running for 31 days. Don't know what to do.
 

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jetajockey

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the best way to get rid of the headache is to get some cycled filter material or substrate from someone or a trusted LFS. I'm up in the air with safestart, but i've seen really good reviews.
 

Prince Powder

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I'm honestly not sure what time frame Stability claims to work in so you may be right on track according to the product. Personally I do not believe that Stability contains the correct bacteria. I have used TSS to cycle two tanks with perfect success. If you feel that the Stability is not doing what it claims and would like to go a different route then I would recommend daily water changes of 50% to allow the bacteria in Stability time to die off so that when you add the TSS there is no competition for the food source. Keep in mind that even with TSS you may not see full results in only 6 days. Generally it takes 7-10 days to complete a cycle with TSS. Both my tanks took 10 days before cycling. If you decide to use TSS, remember that the directions on the bottle are rather incomplete. Check out the Q&A thread for complete directions and more specific suggestions.

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/
 
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ryanr

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What were your readings prior to adding Stability ?

From memory, Stability is a 10 day program.

What prompted the addition of Stability? (i.e. not cycling?)

I'm not 100% sure, but a pH of 6.4 could be affecting the take up of the bacteria. Temperature could also play a part.

I do know that people with cichlid tanks can have a real time of it cycling a tank due to the low pH levels required for their cichlids. If this is the cause, I don't know that TSS would be any better.
 
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dfisherman

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Reading were basically the same before stability, just wanted to speed up cycle. Maybe I'm just being to impatient.
 
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ryanr

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dfisherman said:
Maybe I'm just being to impatient.
LOL. Most likely.

Cycling can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few months depending on many things.

IMO - your pH is slowing things down. (I wouldn't go trying to change it, especially if this is where the tank is most likely to stay)

On the subject of water changes, yes I think you'd be fine to perform your changes. Continue with the Seachem process (you're already into it), I would also recommend dosing with Prime and conditioning change water with Prime too.

With ammonia at 1-2ppm, you're on your way, so patience and perserverance will be your best friends atm
 

jetajockey

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definitely don't change it, ph swings kill bacteria just like they kill fish. I don't think water changes will do much to the bacteria in stability, as they claI'm that it uses several different types, so it (some) likely won't be removed via water change alone. I've used stability on a few occasions and have nothing against it, it seems to help sometimes and others not, but in every instance it hasn't done anything to hinder the cycling process.


That being said, using seeded media is still your best and fastest option.
 
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dfisherman

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Thank you for your comments.
 

chunkdaddy

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Seachem Stability does not have the right kind of bacteria, I learned that the hard way. I think it can actually harm or even kill the good bacteria that you want.
 

catsma_97504

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You have 5 guppies in a 10 gallon tank? And, according to your profile, pepper cats are in this same tank. How many of them? Your tank is overstocked and it is trying to stabilize, not a good combination. Do you intend to keep these fish or are they throw-aways to you?
 
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dfisherman

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The pepper cats were given to a friend, so I do not believe I'm overstocked. NO FISH to me is a throw away!!!
 

Meenu

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chunkdaddy said:
Seachem Stability does not have the right kind of bacteria, I learned that the hard way. I think it can actually harm or even kill the good bacteria that you want.
+1. It's a nonaquatic form, and can die when you stop using the product, which will cause your tank to show toxins again. It competes with the natural beneficial bacteria your tank needs for its food source, ammonia,
 
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ryanr

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I disagree meenu.

Since Seachem won't disclose the exact bacteria they use, it's hard to make a conclusive statement without putting it the product under a microscope.

I have happily and successfully used Stability. With the exception of a little 'top up' dose when I added fish, I have not added any further Stability to my tank in 3 months.

My readings have not changed one iota, I change about 15% of my water every week to 10 days, and have not had a crash of any description. IMHO and IME the product works.

Just my 2c

for the op, here's an ongoing thread with some research about it:
 

catsma_97504

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dfisherman said:
The pepper cats were given to a friend, so I do not believe I'm overstocked. NO FISH to me is a throw away!!!
The recommendation is that Guppies need 4-5 gallon per fish. With 5, you should have them in at 20-30 gallon tank....not 10. I disagree and believe your tank is overstocked. But ultimately it is your tank to decide what it's inhabitants are.

I'm glad to hear that no fish is a throw away. I've seen many use guppies to help cycle a tank only. Wanted to make sure that wasn't your intent.
 

jetajockey

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Meenu said:
+1. It's a nonaquatic form, and can die when you stop using the product, which will cause your tank to show toxins again. It competes with the natural beneficial bacteria your tank needs for its food source, ammonia,
HI Meenu,

Do you have a source for this info? Stability reps claI'm to have reproducing bacteria. Even TSS recommends adding more at each water change. There's a lot of contradicting info on this subject between different forums, and obviously between different company reps.

I believe the concept behind the non-tss type products is that they use other more stable forms of bacteria that do the same job as the kind that naturally occurs in the tank, however the naturally occurring stuff is far more efficient at doing this, so it eventually takes over.

As to how effective or true this is, who knows. All that can be said is that TSS has very positive reviews in general, but then again so do some other products, like stability, or the refrigerator-only types like the former biospira.
 

Aquarist

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Good morning,

It's also my understanding that Stability doesn't contain the necessary bacteria in order to cycle your tank. The bacteria in Stability is said to be a terrestrial form of the bacteria, and cannot survive in an aquatic environment.

Since your tank has been running for 31 days, I highly recommend that you start with daily water changes of 30 to 50%. Add some Prime or Amquel + to detox the ammonia for 24 hours until it's time for the next water change. Keep up with the daily water changes until you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and under 20 nitrates.

31 days is wayyyy too long for your fish to be sitting in ammonia. They may not be showing signs of illness now but they can also suffer long term side effects down the road.

In your Aquarium Profile information you have your pH as 6.4. When cycling, and your pH is below 7.0 the ammonia turns into ammonium and can delay the cycling process. Ammonium is not as harmful as ammonia but it can still do harm to your fish.

Check the pH level from your tap. If it's higher than 6.4 then your pH will increase with water changes. If not then adding crushed coral into a mesh bag and placing it in your filter or tank will help to increase the pH levels naturally. Please do not add any chemicals to alter your pH as they are unstable and can lead to a pH crash resulting in fish loss.

By increasing your pH levels, this is going to turn the ammonium back into ammonia and be more harmful for your fish. You have to keep up with the daily water changes and Prime or Amquel + to keep your fish safe.

Best wishes!

Ken
 
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I did not know guppies need 5 gal per. I thought the rule was 1 inch of fish per gallon..I don't know what to do about the stability. Today is day 7, so I guess I will stop using do 50% water changes and hope the cycle starts, or starts over which ever it's going to do. I will never cycle a tank with fish in it again. I just started a fish less cycle on a 55 gal.
Thank you all for your comments.
Would it be beneficial to take the fish out, drain the tank wash out the filters, then let cycle start over, or use TSS?
 

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Good morning,

Personally I would forget about the bacterial additives to jump start your cycle and go with the daily water changes and doses of Prime or Amquel +.

No, do not drain your tank and wash everything out and start all over. At least I wouldn't. I think it would do more harm than good. If your dead set on using Tetra Safe Start (TSS) then I suggest a 75 % water change, add some Prime or Amquel + to detox any ammonia, wait 24 hours and then add the TSS. Do NOT add the TSS until after the 24 hours. (Check the link I mention below for exact directions)

Before using TSS I highly suggest that you read the information found in the link by PrincePowder in post #3. Follow those guide lines and don't stray from those guide lines

At this point I wouldn't be moving my fish around very often. They are probably stressed enough.

Good luck
Ken
 

jetajockey

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I'm not sure where the factual data is for stability starving off the natural bb, or that the stability formula 'drowns', or cannot survive in aquatic conditions. I've seen it in the form of conjecture alone so if anyone has the actual science behind this (unbiased, not via hovanek) it would really clear things up. These questions have been posted on stabilitys forum and they deny the allegations from what I've seen, and personally I've used the product and not had anything like that happen.

I've used both tss and stability and the results came out basically the same, mixed, lol.

Planning another fair test in the near future with my new tanks, will do a side by side comparison.
 
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dfisherman

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WOW I'm so confused. I do use prime with water changes, fish seen very happy. Todays readings PH 7.3, no2- 0, no3- 10. Ammonia 1.5. Like I said I'm confused.
 
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