Seachem prime added to water

Carolinebee

Hi,

I was wondering if i need to add Seachem prime to water taken out (water change) or for the whole of the tank? It is a 22 L tank. There is still presence of nitrate and nitrate in the water after adding it to the water yesterday.
 

Flyfisha

Hi Carolinebee,
I will try not to confuse you with my answer.

When removing and replacing water the conditioner can be added in two ways.

#1
If you are using a bucket to fill you add the conditioner for the volume of the bucket to the bucket a few minutes before you add it to the tank.

#2
If you are using a hose or Python to add water straight from the tap you add conditioner for the whole volume of the tank at the same time as the hose is running.

As people that use a hose or python are mostly changing water in large tanks of hundreds of litres I assume you are using a bucket for the 22 litre?
 

Carolinebee

Hi Flyfisha,

Thank you for you reply. i usually change 7L of water and add 0.2 ml of Seachem prime. That's 7/200 x 5= 0.175 ml

i hope i got that right.
 

FishDin

There is still presence of nitrate and nitrate in the water after adding it to the water yesterday.
It's my understanding that Prime only detoxifies Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. It does not remove them. They will still show up in your tests. Also, plants can still use the detoxified forms of ammonia and nitrate.
 

Carolinebee

Hi FishDin,

The only way to remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is to continue with the fish-in cycle? How long can this take? Thanks for your suggestion.
 

FishDin

Yes, until your tank is cycled you will continue to have ammonia and nitrites. Once it is cycled, your tank will have enough beneficial bacteria (BB) to convert the ammonia to nitrite and then the nitrite to nitrate. You will then test 0 for those 2. Nitrates, however, will never go away. You will remove those when you do water changes. A safe level of nitrate is less clear. I keep all my tanks under 20ppm. Other people, based on their own experience, believe it can be much higher. I prefer to err on the safe side.

The cycling process can vary, but generally 4-6 weeks is typical. Your tank is somewhere in the middle of the cycling process, so it's hard to say exactly how long it has to go. You mentioned that you have nitrites and nitrates, but no ammonia. That's good. That means that your BB are processing all the ammonia into nitrite. The fact that you have nitrates indicates that you have BB that are converting the nitrite into nitrate. You still have some nitrite though, so the BB population that convert it to nitrate is not big enough yet to handle all the nitrite.

As a rule of thumb, keep the nitrite below .5ppm by performing water changes (WC) as needed (This is done to protect your fish). Test daily and do WC if needed. Test for nitrates as well. IMO, try keeping them below 20.

Once your tank is cycled I recommend a 50% water change weekly.

Who lives in your aquarium?
 

Carolinebee

Thanks for your reply. Does that mean I have to do a water change every 48 hours for 4-6 weeks?
 

MacZ

Thanks for your reply. Does that mean I have to do a water change every 48 hours for 4-6 weeks?
It means you have to do a 50% or more waterchange whenever you detect more than 0.25mg/l of Ammonia or Nitrite. As long as it takes until the numbers stay below that level. this can be a week, it can be 4 weeks.
The microorganisms don't have a schedule that you can hook into with doing a wc every 12/24/48h. Test daily (maybe even one in the morning, one in the evening) until NH3/4 and NO2 stay below 0.25.
 

Flyfisha

What MacZ has written is correct however. For the next week or two if you are running short of time just do a water change ever couple of days . Using temperature matched conditioned water. The tank is unlikely to be cycled tomorrow or the next day and changing part of the water never did anyone any harm. All I am saying is don’t worry about looking at the test results and spend 10 minutes trying to decide what colour the test is when it’s a five minute job to smash out a water change.

Some people are the kind to write down a daily log of the exact numbers and colours. Other people smash out a water change before breakfast as the coffee jug is starting to boil or after midnight.

My pet hate is someone who writes.
” I will do a water change tomorrow “
Just hook in and do it.
 

Carolinebee

Thanks Flyfisha.

What shall i do about the almond leaves i added today? They are to cure his fungal infection or fin rot. Next water change due tomorrow. Do i take out and add more almond leaves with each water change? The test strip shows a very slight increase in nitrite and nitrate on the test strip
 

MacZ

They are to cure his fungal infection or fin rot. Next water change due tomorrow. Do i take out and add more almond leaves with each water change?
Usually you would just add them and leave them to rot until completely disintegrated. But having seen these leaves... Take 5-6 of those before each waterchange, brew them over for about a liter of tea and let it cool down to your water temp, then add the whole liter after each waterchange.
 

Flyfisha

The old leaf can stay in the tank forever or until it’s just a skeleton. Each leaf will still release tannins for a week or more.
As it’s a medication forget about how it looks.

In a 6 gallon those small leaves will look nice.?
 

MacZ

The old leaf can stay in the tank forever or until it’s just a skeleton. Each leaf will still release tannins for a week or more.
As it’s a medication forget about how it looks.

In a 6 gallon those small leaves will look nice.?
I agree, but as there are frequent waterchanges necessary in the near future, it will likely be easier to make extract. Too much of the humic substances are going to go down the drain to still take effect.
 

Carolinebee

How long does the boiled extract last in the fridge? I think i might do enough with 6 leaves, then i know i'm not adding too much
1000 ml of water, 50 leaves and 6 gallon tank

6 leaves/ 50 in packet x 6 gallons= approx 1ml???
 

Flyfisha

In my opinion there is no real need to boil it . Just put leaves in the jar adding more water each time you do a water change and more leaves when the colour fades.
I used a two litre bottle in the refrigerator for a while before moving to the 20 litre bucket. Seriously there is nothing to be gained by boiling other than saving time on the first lot.

How long does it last in the refrigerator?
You will be using it faster than it will be getting old.

After a couple of months you can empty out all the old leaves and start a new lot.

By all means boil it but seriously is anyone going to be doing that continuously? Why is my question?
 

Carolinebee

Hi again Flyfisha!

Ok, I will add them to the tank with each water change. So should I take the old ones out along with the water change, then add some more? And as you said, wait until the water fades. What if the water does not show any sign of colour from the previous leaves?
I was checking my calculations were correct for the boiling method.
 

MacZ

How long does the boiled extract last in the fridge?
A week at most.

6 leaves/ 50 in packet x 6 gallons= approx 1ml???
How do you get there? Each waterchange 6 leaves, 1 liter of water. Oh, wait... you don't use metric normally, right?

In my opinion there is no real need to boil it . Just put leaves in the jar adding more water each time you do a water change and more leaves when the colour fades.
I used a two litre bottle in the refrigerator for a while before moving to the 20 litre bucket.
That works too.

Seriously there is nothing to be gained by boiling other than saving time on the first lot.
Stronger infusion. In my experience the slow cold infusion is not getting the highest efficiency. But on the other hand slow infusion is more economic.

How long does it last in the refrigerator?
You will be using it faster than it will be getting old.
Yep, absolutely.

By all means boil it but seriously is anyone going to be doing that continuously? Why is my question?
Little thought problem I had earlier. I use mostly alder cones these days, which are better boiled out, as the seeds often spoil the water when left in too long. Forgot leaves are a bit easier.

Ok, I will add them to the tank with each water change. So should I take the old ones out along with the water change, then add some more?
He didn't mean to add new ones to the tank with each water change but to the container for cold extraction. That way you get the maximum out of them. Adding to the tank and exchanging each day is even more wasteful than boiling.

What if the water does not show any sign of colour from the previous leaves?
Be assured, they will show colour. ;)
 

Carolinebee

How do you get there? Each waterchange 6 leaves, 1 liter of water. Oh, wait... you don't use metric normally, right?
No, not normally. 1ml seemed about right to me. What do you make it?
 

MacZ

I prepare a whole liter (yes, 1.000ml) of extract for each weekly waterchange and add it in one go for 80l (20gal). As you need a higher concentration than what I add regularly, a liter on 6 gallon is completely fine.
 

Carolinebee

How many leaves should i boil? Bearing in mind, they are mini almond leaves
 

MacZ

If it looks like a weak to medium black tea it's good. You have to experiment. Natural products can vary a lot.
 

Carolinebee

6 leaves/ 50 in packet x 6 gallons= approx 1ml???
How do you get there? Each waterchange 6 leaves, 1 liter of water. Oh, wait... you don't use metric normally, right?

Correction: 22L tank/ 50 litres x 20= 8.8 leaves

(50 litres per 20 leaves)
 

MacZ

I still don't get what you are calculating there.

Just add a liter of extract (whatever how many leaves you need for a certain strength) with each waterchange. Whether you boil a handful or use the cold extraction method doesn't matter.
 

Carolinebee

Ok thanks. I'm following a recipe given to me and from SunGrow.
Ok thanks. I'm following a recipe given to me by Peachsonas -very grateful for this too, and from SunGrow.
 

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