Seachem Flourish affecting Ghost Shrimp?

I have a 10 gallon tank. Started out new about 1 month ago. Added two Harlequin Raspbora's. Added 4 - Ghost Shrimp one week ago. They have been happily foraging the tank since they were added until yesterday. After adding Seachem Flourish at a dose of 1/4 teaspoon (1 ml), they started becoming very sluggish. Today they are also very sluggish, and now one of them I found on it's side. There seems to be a direct connection here to the fertilizer. According to the Seachem website, Flourish dosing for a 10 gallon tank would be 2.5 ml, so I was very conservative with my dosing of 1.0 ml.
Ammonia = 0 ppm, Nitrite = 0 ppm, and Nitrate = 2.5 ppm approximately (hard to be exact based on color chart).

Anyone having trouble with Seachem Flourish and Ghost Shrimp? Am I doing something wrong here? Harlequin Raspora's are swimming very happily around the tank. Plants are doing good, except for the HC tissue cultures, they do not seem to be doing well. One reason I was turning to fertilizers.

 

Few comments:

Flourish are micro-nutrients, I believe? Somehow, I always forget.

All micro-nutrients are toxic at certain concentrations. No different from ammonia. I don't know what the concentrations are of each micro-nutrient given volume. And given how secretly Seachem operates, I'm sure I won't be able to find out that easily.

That said, people in general are not the best in attributing a symptom to a cause. Typically, their own latest effort is seen as the cause, while the real cause might be going on for days or even weeks.

Adding shrimp and finding them dead a few days after, is a common observation, which might have nothing to do with adding micro-nutrients. The biggest factor in my opinion is the transition to a relatively warm, low oxygen environment too quickly. And deaths taking place over the span of a week. thereafter, they've made it. But that's just my hypothesis based on many observations.

HC as in Hemianthus callitrichoides? I assume you have a proper CO2 source + diffusion and distribution system in place? Otherwise forget it.

A super shallow tank with HC close to the water surface and with decent water flow, might work. Still on my bucket list.

 

It is very interesting that observed symptoms happened right after administration of Flourish. As it may be possible that something else is the cause, these shrimps were added after drip acclimation, and all were seemingly quite healthy right up to the point of adding Flourish a week later. This is very suspicious to me.

I am using CO2 injection with Fluval clear acrylic diffuser, twice daily. Once in morning when lights come on, then once in evening when lights come on again. I programmed my lights for 4 hours in the AM, and another 4 hours in the PM.

 

Drip acclimation is not a guarantee. I read too many instances of people conducting drip acclimation followed by deaths the few days after. I have no idea in what conditions the shrimp lived prior to transportation. Perhaps the temperature in someones house (and thus the shrimp tank) already is 10 degrees higher.

If all the deaths were really that acute after dosing micro's, well perhaps the micro's are to blame. Again, all micro nutrients are toxic, but I don't know what the "LD50"'s (lethal dosage) are per individual micro, and I don't know what the concentrations are in Seachem. So it's speculating. I'm keeping shrimp and dosing micro's for decades, so the two can go together.

CO2...another killer

Your procedure of light and injection is interesting, but debatable. Perhaps try the conventional CO2 injection procedure.

If you like to observe your tank in the evenings, simply keep the lights very dim.

 

IMHO it is very unlikely that Flourish is causing the problem.

This a new tank with new shrimp. The problem is most likely something that fits under that umbrella.

And you're also dosing CO2, so there are a lot of variables you should be looking at before assuming that Flourish is causing the problem.

Is there possibly something on your hands when you put them in the tank? Hair products, moisturizers etc?

Have you tested your pH, gH and kH?

 

IMHO it is very unlikely that Flourish is causing the problem.

This a new tank with new shrimp. The problem is most likely something that fits under that umbrella.

And you're also dosing CO2, so there are a lot of variables you should be looking at before assuming that Flourish is causing the problem.

Is there possibly something on your hands when you put them in the tank? Hair products, moisturizers etc?

Have you tested your pH, gH and kH?

gH = 11 degrees, kH = 4 degrees, and pH is around 7.6 to 7.8

I have not knowingly stuck my hands in there with any product on them. I usually wash my hands and arms with a free and clear soap, then rinse good, and dry good before reaching in. If I did not wash before reaching in, there could be something there as I do regularly use moisturizer on my hands/arms.

Recently, the Ghost Shrimp are starting to move around more, though I did loose one of them. It has been 3 days since dosing with Flourish.

If the Ghost Shrimp become as fully active as before, then I might consider dosing again with Flourish to see what happens. Based on Seachem's Label Statement, and the experience of other hobbyists from this forum, it sounds like it should be okay. I cannot say that for certain it was the Flourish, but it does cause me to pause and consider the what/why of what is happening here.

My CO2 dosing and everything else remains the same, the only changed variable is that I have not yet attempted to dose again with Flourish. I will give it a full week, and see how the shrimpers do before dosing again.

If this is all coincidental to something else, I would sure like figure out what it is. I would rather it be something else as my plants could benefit from the micronutrients. I am not happy about losing fish/shrimp, I feel responsible.

Thanks for all input and advice.

 

Well, I lost one other Ghost Shrimp, so two survived and are doing well.

I did a 50% water change, and added the Seachem Flourish. The Ghost Shrimp are still doing fine. So I concur that whatever it was that affectd my shrimpers, it was probably not the Flourish. For that matter, all other things I have been doing seem to be fine. I did not change the lighting cycles or the CO2 injections.

I will probably never know for sure what it was, but I can confidently rule out what it was not!

Thanks to ruud, and Maritime Aquaman both for your experience and advice

 

Well, I lost one other Ghost Shrimp, so two survived and are doing well.

I did a 50% water change, and added the Seachem Flourish. The Ghost Shrimp are still doing fine. So I concur that whatever it was that affectd my shrimpers, it was probably not the Flourish. For that matter, all other things I have been doing seem to be fine. I did not change the lighting cycles or the CO2 injections.

I will probably never know for sure what it was, but I can confidently rule out what it was not!

Thanks to ruud, and Maritime Aquaman both for your experience and advice

Its frustrating losing new stock when you believe that you've done everything right. I've recently been struggling with new stock as well. Its tempting to assign a cause to it, so that we feel better moving forward. But most of the time you don't get the satisfaction of figuring it out.

 

Flourish is an entire line of products sold by Seachem. Which Flourish product are you talking about? If you are talking about Flourish Comprehensive, it is a combination of micronutrients. The only thing that might affect shrimp is a small amount of copper.

Flourish Excel, which is sold as a carbon precurser, is a dilute solution of gluteraldehyde. In higher concentrations, gluteraldehde is a high-level disinfectant used in hospitals for killing bacteria, fungi, and viruses. When used at recommended dosage on the Excel bottle, it should not harm fish, but I do not know about ghost shrimp. If the behavior of the ghost shrimp changed shortly after dosing this product, they are being affected and you should stop using it immediately.

 

Hi RayClem,

I am talking about the regular Seachem Flourish Formulation, not one of the Flourish Specialty Formulations. Although, I am also using Seachem Flourish Potassium, but I know that potassium is a macro nutrient for plants, which should be harmless to fish/shrimp in normal ranges.


I am not currently using Seachem Flourish Excel, though I was considering trying it.

 

. . . Flourish Excel, which is sold as a carbon precurser, is a dilute solution of gluteraldehyde. In higher concentrations, gluteraldehde is a high-level disinfectant used in hospitals for killing bacteria, fungi, and viruses. When used at recommended dosage on the Excel bottle, it should not harm fish, but I do not know about ghost shrimp. If the behavior of the ghost shrimp changed shortly after dosing this product, they are being affected and you should stop using it immediately.

Some time ago I used Excel at higher than recommended doses (I don't any longer), and it didn't seem to bother my neocaridina or amano shrimp, so I assume it wouldn't hurt ghost shrimp, but of course I can't be sure.

 

Some time ago I used Excel at higher than recommended doses (I don't any longer), and it didn't seem to bother my neocaridina or amano shrimp, so I assume it wouldn't hurt ghost shrimp, but of course I can't be sure.

I may try it, but only at the recommended dose.

 

I’ve never had issue with the Seachem line and inverts. It’s normal to lose shrimp when you first get them, i would say within the first week or so. Also most ghost shrimp are feeder shrimp and are sick from the start. Imo, unlikely flourish had anything to do with it

 

I’ve never had issue with the Seachem line and inverts. It’s normal to lose shrimp when you first get them, i would say within the first week or so. Also most ghost shrimp are feeder shrimp and are sick from the start. Imo, unlikely flourish had anything to do with it

Thank you GouramiGirl100, that seems to be the consensus here!

 

Hi RayClem,

I am talking about the regular Seachem Flourish Formulation, not one of the Flourish Specialty Formulations. Although, I am also using Seachem Flourish Potassium, but I know that potassium is a macro nutrient for plants, which should be harmless to fish/shrimp in normal ranges.
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I am not currently using Seachem Flourish Excel, though I was considering trying it.

When most people mention Seachem Fluorish, they are often talking about the Comprehensive formula. However, since that is not always the case, I thought it might be wise to ask. The level of copper in Comprehensive is not supposed to be high enough to affect shrimp, but some people who keep shrimp try to use fertilizers that have zero copper, just to be certain.

 

Copper is essential in the correct amount. Shrimp will die without it. But too much also kills them.

I tend to believe that very few shrimp in this hobby are actually killed by copper. Its rare for copper levels in tap water to be high, and pretty much any modern fertilizer formulation is shrimp safe.