Seachem Equilibrium On Tap (dying Shrimp-sos)

HI Everyone--
The tank of main concern at the moment is my 10 gallon. With the below tank specs in mind...

My shrimp are dying. I would like them to stop doing that.

I feel like I've provided them a well balanced tank? (I think I need validation on that) so I'm really not sure what's going on. In addition to keeping them alive, I would also like to breed them so I've deduced that I need to raise the GH (additionally, if this helps strengthen my snails shells, then that's great!)

I purchased Seachem Equilibrium but all of the instructions I can find are for RO water (which I don't use). I've been adding small amounts (mixing it with aquarium water first) but I'm not sure what the correct dosage to add is per gallon IF the baseline GH is 5 for my tap water and I would like to get it to 8.

If you think this goes beyond the GH levels, please let me know. I want shrimp in my tanks SO badly!

Tank Details:
Stocked With: Snails (mystery and racer nerites, betta, blue shrimp and (only 3 Neon Tetras, might get more, might not. Might keep in 10 gallon, might move to a new tank being cycled.)
**The Problem: Had 15 shrimp, all but two have died. (it's not the Betta because they haven't been eaten; meaning, all bodies have been found-- pink if that means anything besides the obvious).
**I have another tank that had four blue shrimp, fully grown and only two are alive now. Water is identical with the only exceptions being GH is 8 with a temp of 76-- housing danios, gold cloud minnows and salt & pepper corys.
***The Question: 1) What am I doing wrong?! 2) How do I use Equilibrium correctly? 3) How long until results are readable. ******NOTE:****** I added about 1/3 tsp, mixed in aquarium water and waited 15 minutes and the GH level hasn't budged.


Water Parameters:
GH: 5 (naturally), 7 because I've been using shrimp GH by aquavitro for the past month-- too expensive AND my shrimp are dying so I want to try something different.
KH: 4
PH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 5 (only because that's in my tap water)
Phosphates: .25 (last tested before todays water change)
Copper: 0
Temp: 79

Water Change Amounts: 25%-50% depending on and the day and how much food/poop gets sucked up. Every Friday/Saturday.
Conditioner: StressCoat+ (Prime on occasions)
Filtration: I have a low flow submerged filter but I added a bubble filter today in the hopes to switch the tank over in a couple weeks.
Substrate: Eco-Complete
Decor: Cholla Wood, Dragon Stones, live plants, bio balls, marimo, indian almond leaves, alder cones.
Natural Mineral/Calcium Sources: 10-15 mineral balls, properly prepared eggshell powder and cuttlebone pieces.
Food: I feed the fish with flakes, freeze dried blood worms, betta pellets (and freeze dried cyclopes on occasion-- that's mainly for my bigger tank with minnows and danios). I feed the snails with algae wafers and sometimes I drop in a snack for the shrimp (mulberry something or other) but they never seem to eat it and I end up having to scoop it out.


Thanks for any help you can provide! I'm just at a loss right now.

 

first of all there's a lot going on here for a 10 gallon tank, so lets have a picture?
Cholla Wood, Dragon Stones, live plants, bio balls, marimo, indian almond leaves, alder cones.
Natural Mineral/Calcium Sources: 10-15 mineral balls, properly prepared eggshell powder and cuttlebone pieces!---
prime on occasions that should go in on every water change at the right dose,(Q) have you been dosing prime at the right dose, if you've not been doing that then chlorine in the water will kill shrimp, your temp is to high that needs to come down between 72f -76 this will cause stress and add problems, although your betta may not be eating them it is a predator and will again add stress, adding any type of chemical in doses over the top will be toxic to shrimp which you've been doing, water changes to big for shrimp you will shock them and that leads to death 15% a week is enough for shrimp tanks that works out to a 6ltr change a week, so if you feel they need to be bigger because of food and poo in the tank then you are over feeding and that need to stop,(Q) how is one tank gh start at 5 yet your other tank with blue shrimp is gh8? (Q)are you using the same water?
Reading on everything going on you've got no stability in your 10 gallon tank

please don't thing i'm having a dig here I just need you to understand what's been going on and how it all affects shrimp and by reading through what you've written you may understand a little better what you've been doing and what needs to be done to start you off,
your enthusiasm tells me you want a shrimp tank and that's something we can give you, things need to change and a very small outlay if you want to do it,
your outlay is first get a TDS meter one that doesn't need calibrating, this fits the bill perfect.

second Salty Bee gh/kh+ I know you've got Seechem equilibrium and I know it can do the job but its something i'v never used so i'd rather stick to what I know and what I use unless someone else can guide you on it or you can work out the dosage but that's something for later we may be able to do it when you get a TDS meter but this is what you'll need if not,
don't let the price frighten you, you can get a small tub half that price and it will last a few years, I think in the USA there's an equivalent brand so look it up or someone may chime in with a link please

now as for the tank as it is drop the temp to 76 that's ok for the betta and for new shrimp, reduce your feeding, reduce water changes to 20% I know I said 15% but you have a betta and snails, new shrimp will adapt by the time we've finished, stop adding any chemicals for now except prime on water changes, your gh is 5 and that's ok for the shrimp and your ph is fine at 7.2 for the betta.
read this a few times to understand what we're trying to do and achieve and whether you want to go this rout or one someone else suggests, whichever you decide ill help where needed

 

Thanks for the reply. Pictures attached (Front view and Ariel view). Sounds like a lot more than it is.

1) Prime, as mentioned, I only use once in a while as I prefer to use the Stress Coat Plus. When I do use Prime, I dose 2-3 drops for every gallon. Chlorine is a non-issue.
2) I debated a lot with the temperature I can drop it to 76 degrees, I only bumped it up because my Betta seemed stressed by it and I was trying to help him perk up (which he has since the increase in temp). I read a bunch of articles before doing this and read that this is a highly controversial topic when it comes to breeding shrimp but 79 is the max the tank should be at. But if you think it's best, I can slowly bring it down to 76.
3) My betta is INCREDBILY docile and I have enough places for the shrimp to hide, I was very careful about that as well. (As mentioned, I'm having the same issue in my other tank where there is no betta and the temp is 76-- that tank houses gold minnows and danios).
4) "adding any type of chemical in doses over the top will be toxic to shrimp which you've been doing," can you explain here? I haven't been adding anything to my tank other than the GH booster and calcium supplements. Am I adding too much calcium?-- that's something I haven't been able to figure out what is best.
5) tap water is naturally 5. Big tank I get up to 8 with the GH supplement and the little tank, I only go up to 7 with the supplement. Not sure why, just how I did it and I've been sticking with it.
6) I DID have a TDS meter but it broke, my tap is naturally around 350-400 if that helps. I will 100% buy a new one, I just haven't done it yet. I will purchase today (via amazon).
7) I will work on controlling my water changes and keeping them smaller, sometimes, I just get a little too into it and before I know it, half the tank is drained hahah. I'll try and stick with just 15% and I'll work on feeding less as well.
8) If the GH is fine at 5 then that's great! I would love to stop dosing my tanks with anything I don't need to be!
9) Also, as mentioned, I am working on converting the tank to a sponge filter because my betta hates the flow that gets set out by the submerged filter I've been using.

first of all there's a lot going on here for a 10 gallon tank, so lets have a picture?
Cholla Wood, Dragon Stones, live plants, bio balls, marimo, indian almond leaves, alder cones.
Natural Mineral/Calcium Sources: 10-15 mineral balls, properly prepared eggshell powder and cuttlebone pieces!---
prime on occasions that should go in on every water change at the right dose,(Q) have you been dosing prime at the right dose, if you've not been doing that then chlorine in the water will kill shrimp, your temp is to high that needs to come down between 72f -76 this will cause stress and add problems, although your betta may not be eating them it is a predator and will again add stress, adding any type of chemical in doses over the top will be toxic to shrimp which you've been doing, water changes to big for shrimp you will shock them and that leads to death 15% a week is enough for shrimp tanks that works out to a 6ltr change a week, so if you feel they need to be bigger because of food and poo in the tank then you are over feeding and that need to stop,(Q) how is one tank gh start at 5 yet your other tank with blue shrimp is gh8? (Q)are you using the same water?
Reading on everything going on you've got no stability in your 10 gallon tank

please don't thing i'm having a dig here I just need you to understand what's been going on and how it all affects shrimp and by reading through what you've written you may understand a little better what you've been doing and what needs to be done to start you off,
your enthusiasm tells me you want a shrimp tank and that's something we can give you, things need to change and a very small outlay if you want to do it,
your outlay is first get a TDS meter one that doesn't need calibrating, this fits the bill perfect.

second Salty Bee gh/kh+ I know you've got Seechem equilibrium and I know it can do the job but its something i'v never used so i'd rather stick to what I know and what I use unless someone else can guide you on it or you can work out the dosage but that's something for later we may be able to do it when you get a TDS meter but this is what you'll need if not,
don't let the price frighten you, you can get a small tub half that price and it will last a few years, I think in the USA there's an equivalent brand so look it up or someone may chime in with a link please

now as for the tank as it is drop the temp to 76 that's ok for the betta and for new shrimp, reduce your feeding, reduce water changes to 20% I know I said 15% but you have a betta and snails, new shrimp will adapt by the time we've finished, stop adding any chemicals for now except prime on water changes, your gh is 5 and that's ok for the shrimp and your ph is fine at 7.2 for the betta.
read this a few times to understand what we're trying to do and achieve and whether you want to go this rout or one someone else suggests, whichever you decide ill help where needed

I forgot to reply directly-- see response below

 

when I first read posts like yours I ask all sorts of things its not until you get going you learn a little more of what your dealing with plus you get a better insight as to what you do and how you do it,I always advise anyone with shrimp problems with a base to start from not know how much they know until you get talking, you've obviously done some homework so some things can change like temperature if you want.
ok stress coat is fine 2 drops from a syringe is fine on a gallon, choice is yours so if I refer to prime you can use stress coat, you are right in that shrimp will live in higher temperatures but it comes at a price 76f is ok if you can do it, and now you know 79f will also work, what happens is that they will breed faster but their lifespan is reduced a lot all my shrimp tanks are 72f and that's what I advise as its also the best and now you know its up to you what temp you use, so that parts done,
Chemicals, you said you weren't sure if you were adding the correct amount of equilibrium this rings alarm bells to me in as much any chemical added to a shrimp tank alters its chemistry as much as not adding enough, so if you have a gh of 0 and you put what you think is enough and your gh is only going to 3 or 4 then your shrimp will have moulting issues and die, its the same if you added equilibrium and unknowingly rose it above gh19 you'll have issues, there's not many chemicals that can be added to a shrimp tank without having problems,
Calcium this is something I try to educate all shrimpers on, there's no need to add anything to boost calcium your only putting it in the water and it goes in and out the gills, where its really needed is in the body and that's don by the way of food feeding the the right food which as high levels of calcium is doing two jobs 1 feeding 2 they are injesting calcium where its needed in the body where it conditions shrimp to moult, it is up to you how you do it but in my 10 gallon like yours will always have 1/2 catapa leaf which as antI fungal properties as well as biofilm on the leaf so its all eaten, to many can reduce ph levels so to many can have an effect on your chemistry, with a gh5 you'll find the shrimp breeding slower but when you get your tds meter you can use the meter to give you spot on gh all the time, it'll be a little fiddly the first time but after that no problems
if your tap water is a constant gh5 you need nothing else your ph is 7.2 perfect kh4 perfect you've almost got the perfect tank without adding anything, we can work on equilibrium when you get the tds meter, while the tank is as it is now don't add any shrimp until its stable which won't take long
mark a bucket so you take the right amount of water out and as I said with the betta in there do 10ltr a week, its also very important to add the water slowly and try to get it as near to tank temp as possible its these things that shock your shrimp,
sorry this was a long one but I understand you better now so I think things will get shorter if iv'e missed anything let us know

 

when I first read posts like yours I ask all sorts of things its not until you get going you learn a little more of what your dealing with plus you get a better insight as to what you do and how you do it,I always advise anyone with shrimp problems with a base to start from not know how much they know until you get talking, you've obviously done some homework so some things can change like temperature if you want.
ok stress coat is fine 2 drops from a syringe is fine on a gallon, choice is yours so if I refer to prime you can use stress coat, you are right in that shrimp will live in higher temperatures but it comes at a price 76f is ok if you can do it, and now you know 79f will also work, what happens is that they will breed faster but their lifespan is reduced a lot all my shrimp tanks are 72f and that's what I advise as its also the best and now you know its up to you what temp you use, so that parts done,
Chemicals, you said you weren't sure if you were adding the correct amount of equilibrium this rings alarm bells to me in as much any chemical added to a shrimp tank alters its chemistry as much as not adding enough, so if you have a gh of 0 and you put what you think is enough and your gh is only going to 3 or 4 then your shrimp will have moulting issues and die, its the same if you added equilibrium and unknowingly rose it above gh19 you'll have issues, there's not many chemicals that can be added to a shrimp tank without having problems,
Calcium this is something I try to educate all shrimpers on, there's no need to add anything to boost calcium your only putting it in the water and it goes in and out the gills, where its really needed is in the body and that's don by the way of food feeding the the right food which as high levels of calcium is doing two jobs 1 feeding 2 they are injesting calcium where its needed in the body where it conditions shrimp to moult, it is up to you how you do it but in my 10 gallon like yours will always have 1/2 catapa leaf which as antI fungal properties as well as biofilm on the leaf so its all eaten, to many can reduce ph levels so to many can have an effect on your chemistry, with a gh5 you'll find the shrimp breeding slower but when you get your tds meter you can use the meter to give you spot on gh all the time, it'll be a little fiddly the first time but after that no problems
if your tap water is a constant gh5 you need nothing else your ph is 7.2 perfect kh4 perfect you've almost got the perfect tank without adding anything, we can work on equilibrium when you get the tds meter, while the tank is as it is now don't add any shrimp until its stable which won't take long
mark a bucket so you take the right amount of water out and as I said with the betta in there do 10ltr a week, its also very important to add the water slowly and try to get it as near to tank temp as possible its these things that shock your shrimp,
sorry this was a long one but I understand you better now so I think things will get shorter if iv'e missed anything let us know

So it seems like I didn't do a good enough job at explaining what I was doing with the equilibrium, I'm sorry about that.

More info on that:
I had done a water change last night (when I was writing this) which ended up being 50% (too much I now know) and that dropped my GH, that I keep at 7, down to the tap water level of 5. I was new to using Equilibrium and all of the instructions are for RO water and I wasn't sure how much to add to non-RO water. What I ended up doing was taking an extra measuring cap I had lying around and filling the powder to the 5mL line. Then I mixed that in a cup with aquarium water. I added half of that solution to the tank, waited about 15-20 minutes (because not waiting was giving me bad results), tested the water, then added the remaining half of the mixture. I did that a bunch of times until I reached my desired GH-- There was no straight answer on the internet and I needed to get it back up to 7 ASAP for fear of killing my last two shrimp with the shock of a crazy GH drop. It took me a really long time because I didn't want to overshoot so after about 2 hours, I finally got my GH back up to 7.

I couldn't be happier that you are telling me a GH of 5 is perfectly fine! That makes this so much easier. When I first started keeping shrimp, I had one get stuck in a molt after 3 months of successfully keeping it alive so that's what started this craziness.

I purchased the TDS reader when I last replied-- looks like it will get here on Wednesday.

I will slowly get the tank back to it's naturally balanced levels (GH back to 5). Are almond leaves good as a substitute for the catapa leaf you mentioned? I bought a 100 pack of almond leaves for the tannins to help my betta's fins out, it helped brighten up my Neons too. I have about 5 in the 10 gallon and about 7 in the 30 gallon (with the minnows and danios).

I have really good quality food pellets for the shrimp, they just don't seem to like it so I guess I have to shop around and try some other things. Any recommendations?

Here's the pellets I have specifically for them:

What is an ideal TDS? I know for a fact that mine is over 300

 

Those pellets look good can't get them here, I'd leave the leaves in now they are there but one is plenty and it won't play with your ph like those ones as a group will but it's not a real problem as your ph is fine just keep an eye on it, now with the equilibrium it's best to have you 20% water ready and do the mix in there and then add it to your tank. When you get the tds meter it will make things a lot easier, as for your food stop feeding the shrimp for 2 or 3 days and try again at the moment there's loads of food in the tank so they'll give yours a miss, don't worry not feeding won't be s problem

 

thank you SO much for your time to help me with this! You're VERY kind!

 

It's not a problem its satisfying to see the end results and a happy shrimper

 

HI hanna I've posted a few of my tanks these taken this morning to give you an idea of what I do and any ideas you may take from them, ive just had a big reshuffle so some are a lot newer

 

HI hanna I've posted a few of my tanks these taken this morning to give you an idea of what I do and any ideas you may take from them, ive just had a big reshuffle so some are a lot newer

I was thinking of putting a tiny pump on my sponge filter as well. Do you prefer them and do they create too much flow in the shrimp tanks or do you turn them down ?

 

I do prefer the the adapted pump they are a lot quieter and more efficient,they all have a flow control but in my experience shrimp don't mind a little flow, some come with air bubble adaptors and my shrimp love it

 

HI hanna I've posted a few of my tanks these taken this morning to give you an idea of what I do and any ideas you may take from them, ive just had a big reshuffle so some are a lot newer

That's really great! Your tanks are beautiful!!
I just got my TDS meter in the mail, it's reading at 369 for my neo shrimp. I know they can tolerate higher TDS so do you think that is a safe level for them?

 

If your gh5 is constant with your tds at 369 then yes you can stick with that and shouldn't have problems,the tap tds will also go up a point when you put dechlorinator in,
Now you can do a test put the required amount of water in a bucket you would normally use as a water changr 15 or 20% you decided on and take a tds reading then add the measured amount of equilibrium you were putting in the tank and mix it up and do a tds&gh reading and note them, keep adding equilibrium and test gh until you get your gh8 all the while noting how much equilibrium you use and tds reafings, once you've got it to gh8 you take a final tds reading and let me know the results, don't add this to the tank just yet, until I get back to you

 

If your gh5 is constant with your tds at 369 then yes you can stick with that and shouldn't have problems,the tap tds will also go up a point when you put dechlorinator in,
Now you can do a test put the required amount of water in a bucket you would normally use as a water changr 15 or 20% you decided on and take a tds reading then add the measured amount of equilibrium you were putting in the tank and mix it up and do a tds&gh reading and note them, keep adding equilibrium and test gh until you get your gh8 all the while noting how much equilibrium you use and tds reafings, once you've got it to gh8 you take a final tds reading and let me know the results, don't add this to the tank just yet, until I get back to you

Quick revise on my info.
I just tested my tap water to confirm my numbers (plus with the heat we've been getting here, I know that sometimes things leach into and out of the pipes/water).

My TAP water (untreated with conditioner) parameters:
TDS = 234
PH = 7.8
GH = 3 (that is a problem for molting being that low, right?-- I tested this twice to make sure)
KH = 4
Nitrates = 5
Everything else reads as zero


With that said, here are the parameters of my 10 gallon right now:
TDS = 381
PH = 7.5
GH = 6
KH = 4
Nitrates = 5
Everything else reads as zero


Should I continue to do water changes until my GH reaches 3? or leave it at 6 and start adding the equilibrium?

 

Your gh must be minimum 5 better 6 to 8 so it needs to be taken back up but not to fast
Your 10 gal is perfect for what you are working with so do the same to get the other tank the same as that. Mix your water like I said in previous post, how many shrimp are in there

 

Doing that as we speak, I'm up to a half a tablespoon of equilibrium lol-- waiting 15 minutes to ensure it's all broken down. I have two shrimp in my big thank that are thriving. and a couple in my 10 gallon.

Your gh must be minimum 5 better 6 to 8 so it needs to be taken back up but not to fast
Your 10 gal is perfect for what you are working with so do the same to get the other tank the same as that. Mix your water like I said in previous post, how many shrimp are in there

As it stands, 1/4tsp raises my water by +2GH. So for a a 15-20% water change, I need 1/2 a tsp to get to 7.

I started at 3gh (TDS = 245) and I am now at 7gh (TDS = 418)
Shall I keep going to get to 8? 9 would be easier measurement wise. Thoughts?

 

Leave it at that now

 

Leave it at that now

great, thank you!
I will work on slowly increasing the GH again.

 

Are you using any bottle water

 

Are you using any bottle water

no just tap water

 

Can you buy RO water cheap where you live

 

I can buy a kick but that's $200 and seems unnecessary. Is my TDS too high if I got up to 7gh?

 

Let's see how it works there, the important part now is stability that's what shrimp need I know of people keeping shrimp with a tds that high and working, unless you change to chesp bottle water, but if you can keep things stable there you have a chance, do for now mix your water change in z bucket with the equilibrium and then add it to your tank on the water change, use the tds metrer as a guide

 

Let's see how it works there, the important part now is stability that's what shrimp need I know of people keeping shrimp with a tds that high and working, unless you change to chesp bottle water, but if you can keep things stable there you have a chance, do for now mix your water change in z bucket with the equilibrium and then add it to your tank on the water change, use the tds metrer as a guide

Thank you so much for your help! I'll see how that goes and maybe I can start adding some more shrimp in a couple weeks.

 

Yes give it a few weeks to stabilise and you getting used to doing your mixes and you should be ok, if you post anything I usually pick it up straight away unless I'm in bed

 

happy news-- I changed 15% water. tank TDS was at 381 and when I replenished it with the mixed water, it is still reading at 381! Nerd alert but that's exciting to me haha

Thanks again for the help and explaining things to me!