Saw A Betta With A Severe Case Of Popeye At The Pet Store. Considering Attempting A Rescue.

Hey everyone! Today, I saw a Betta male in one of my local pet stores with a severe case of bilateral popeye. (He’s almost at the point of looking more like a Black Moore than a Betta.) However, his eyes appeared to not be extremely white and foggy, if I remember correctly, so he may still have a decent chance of a good recovery.

I’m considering returning tomorrow and attempting a rescue. (Given he’s still there and alive.) The only issue is my quarrantine tank is currently inhabited by a newbie who is going in a divided (10 gallon) tank later. So I would have to buy a new tank exclusively for the ailing fish. HOWEVER, I do have extra sponges I can put in the new tank from all of my healthy, cycled tanks. (If a sponge with beneficial bacteria would even been needed in this case, as the tank I would use to heal him would not be his permanent home, and would receive daily water changes.)

So my questions are:

- Where do I start and what medications would you recommend? (I’m getting mixed answers reading articles and other forums.) So far, I’ve read to put him in a tank with no substrate or decorations. Seeing split opinions on medications vs epsom salt.

- I currently use Seachem Prime on my tanks. Can this still be combined with medications/epsom salt?

- Would a 2.5 gallon tank be sufficient for treating him in; with daily water changes? (Will have to do some major rearranging to accomodate another 5 gallon tank, which I do intend on upgrading him to. Time is just of the essence currently.)

- Also, are there any procedures to insure what caused his ailments (guessing poor handling and water conditions) isn’t spread to my other tanks? (FYI: Every single tank I own gets its own individual set of nets, siphons, gloves, water buckets, and even food.)

- Any general tips/advice? A good article/forum to read up on?

Thanks in advance everyone! Still somewhat of a newbie, but I feel I’ve had enough experience to give this little guy a fighting chance he may not otherwise get.

Will update with pictures when I get him. (Fingers crossed he’s still there and kicking tomorrow.)

 

2.5 would be fine with daily water changes but yes cycled media and a filter (& heater) are still necessary

no substrate & no decorations is correct & if you use salt don’t add meds as well, choose one or the other

yes prime can be mixed with medications or salt

making sure it doesn’t spread to other tanks is as simple as using separate gear for his tank and/or cleaning everything well after using the gear



good luck!

 

2.5 would be fine with daily water changes but yes cycled media and a filter (& heater) are still necessary

no substrate & no decorations is correct & if you use salt don’t add meds as well, choose one or the other

yes prime can be mixed with medications or salt

making sure it doesn’t spread to other tanks is as simple as using separate gear for his tank and/or cleaning everything well after using the gear



good luck!

Yep! A heater and filter were already on my list of things to grab tomorrow!

Thank you so much for the concern, taking the time to reply, and info!

 

it’s okay I really hope he makes it!

 

I hope it goes well!I would love it if you keep us updated ^.^

 

Luckily, they had him today! Took some searching; they had moved him to the very back of the display. (Glad that’s the worst they did, though.) According to the cup, the store has had him since the 7th of November. (I saw a poor female they’ve had since October 2nd, but I’m having to call it quits with additional tanks. I’m currently at 8 bettas which will be across 7 tanks in the end. (5 are in separate 5 gallon tanks, 2 in a divided 10 gallon, and this guy, given he survives will end up in a 5 gallon as well.) Running out of space. Haha!

I was able to get everything I needed! Only thing I lack is the sponge filter. I have the sponges; however, I lack a base for one, thought I had an extra. So, it’ll be here Monday or Tuesday. However, I have a cascade filter which should tide him over until then.

I think he’s largely blind currently, as he doesn’t react to my finger being near his face. (He did seem to react once from the side, though.) Overall, he isn’t very lethargic. He seems to dart around in the cup.

He also seems to have a little white above his upper lip. Was scared it could have been the beginnings of ich. But I think it’s just his markings.

Here’s the poor little guy:






(Only one with flash. Didn’t want to bother his eyes if he can see.)



And here is the Epsom salt I bought. Hopefully it’s the right thing. (Hence me double checking on here.) Took some searching to find some that wasn’t scented or dyed.




It’s 100% Magnesium Sulfate USP, with no inactive ingredients.








Also, any help with identifying his tail type? (Combtail, possibly?) He’s already a pretty big fellow, second largest I own, next to my veiltail.

 

Only 8. Lol

 

Only 8. Lol

Oh, I have a feeling I’m gonna find a way to accomodate more in the future. Haha!

 

pretty sure that’s the right salt !

 

Update: He’s set up in his tank! Currently very active and swimming around. Fairly positive he’s mostly blind at the moment. He’ll bump into the side of the tank, get spooked, dart against another side, and sorta ping-pong between sides a few times. I also put food directly in front (and on both sides) of his face multiple times, and he didn’t even acknowledge it. However, he does seem to give the heater a small flare here and there, and is usually successfully navigating around the thermometer, so hopefully he hasn’t lost his vision entirely.

Turning the filter off for tonight so he can have some peace. The current was spooking him a bit. Just kept it on long enough for it to “churn” the epsom salt into the water. Turning it back on for a bit tomorrow.

His water in the cup from the store smelled putrid. Similar to that of a rotten watermelon. I’ve had some with funky smelling cups before, but NOTHING like that. (His cup from the store was oddly clean visibly, however. No food or poop in the bottom at all.)

Thank you so much, everyone, for the help, time, and concern! I’ll update his progress in a few days! (Or sooner, if things go South. Praying they won’t.)

 

Since you think he has cloudy eyes, I would most certainly start an antibiotic. Kanamycin would be my first choice. It comes as Kanaplex from Seachem.

Instead of adding the salt to the tank, I would do antibiotics in the tank and an Epsom salt dip/bath. That way he isn’t in the salt all the time.

Salt Baths

You want the antibiotics in the tank for 7-10 days, just like with human antibiotics. Which is most likely 2 rounds of treatments. I would do the Epsom salt dips for 4-5 days and re-evaluate to see if he is getting any better. Epsom salt can be tough on their kidneys, so you don’t want to overdo it. Aquarium Salt is different and can be used for longer periods, but I do think your guy needs Epsom Salt, not AQ. That is why I recommend the dip instead.

 

Since you think he has cloudy eyes, I would most certainly start an antibiotic. Kanamycin would be my first choice. It comes as Kanaplex from Seachem.

Instead of adding the salt to the tank, I would do antibiotics in the tank and an Epsom salt dip/bath. That way he isn’t in the salt all the time.

Salt Baths

You want the antibiotics in the tank for 7-10 days, just like with human antibiotics. Which is most likely 2 rounds of treatments. I would do the Epsom salt dips for 4-5 days and re-evaluate to see if he is getting any better. Epsom salt can be tough on their kidneys, so you don’t want to overdo it. Aquarium Salt is different and can be used for longer periods, but I do think your guy needs Epsom Salt, not AQ. That is why I recommend the dip instead.

I have some antibiotics on the way that I ordered yesterday! Set to arrive Monday. (Actually Kanaplex, as you suggested. I hardly trust anything but Seachem.) None of the local stores had any medications that were recommended by fish keepers. The stocks of my local pet stores are pretty pathetic. Two out of three didn’t even have siphons in stock. Mostly just Safe Start, and one other by Tetra that I’m not remembering. One had a store brand antibiotic for freshwater fish that I couldn’t even find a review for, so I skipped out on that one out of fear of low quality.

I decided on epsom salt for the weekend, to see if that would reduce the swelling in his eyes, enough for him to see to eat. Since I’m unsure how long it’s been since his last meal. I’m guessing a while since he hasn’t even had a bowel movement in the tank. (I’m thankful bettas are hardy enough to go a while without food.) I’ve tried every method possible with feeding; dropping it on all sides of him, even trying to assist him with forceps(tweezers).

His eyes aren’t cloudy, thankfully. (I was remembering him looking a lot worse before I went back to purchase him at the time of the first post.) Still want to do the antibiotics to be safe, though.

Anyway, thank you SO VERY much for taking the time to reply, for the info, and for giving me a bit more peace of mind that I ordered a good medication. I truly appreciate it!

Kanaplex can still be used alongside Seachem Prime, correct?

 

Kanaplex can still be used alongside Seachem Prime, correct?

yes !

 

Just a small update: I was able to get him to react to my finger a few times at the edge and surface of the tank! (Both wiggling it and keeping it still.) He still can’t see his food to eat, however. But it’s progress!

After comparing him to yesterday’s pictures, the swelling in his eyes has gone down a little bit. One was larger than the other, and they are now close to even!

As always, thanks once again to everyone for the info and concern! <3

 

You could try feeding frozen brine shrimp. Once it thaws, add it to the tank just in front of him. It sort of forms a cloud of shrimp once in the tank. Most of the time the bettas can smell it and are able to grab some. I’ve found that it works the best when they aren’t feeling well. Also if you add a little garlic juice, or just chopped garlic mixed with the shrimp they love that.

You should try the blanched deshelled smashed peas too. To help with digestion. But I would try the brine shrimp first. See if he can get any food in at all first. Then try the peas. That should get him on the right track hopefully.

Glad he is doing better. That is great news.

 

You could try feeding frozen brine shrimp. Once it thaws, add it to the tank just in front of him. It sort of forms a cloud of shrimp once in the tank. Most of the time the bettas can smell it and are able to grab some. I’ve found that it works the best when they aren’t feeling well. Also if you add a little garlic juice, or just chopped garlic mixed with the shrimp they love that.

You should try the blanched deshelled smashed peas too. To help with digestion. But I would try the brine shrimp first. See if he can get any food in at all first. Then try the peas. That should get him on the right track hopefully.

Glad he is doing better. That is great news.

Oh wow! Thanks for the suggestion! If I don’t get anything in his stomach by tomorrow, I’ll definitely look into ordering some for him.

 

I’ve noticed his water is fairly rank when I’ve done his daily water changes. I’ve never had any water smell THIS bad. It’s fairly similar to how it smelled in his cup at the pet store. (Not quite as bad, though.) And these are 100% water changes.

This isn’t the usual faint musky, swampy smell, either. It’s similar to that of a public restroom.

Hopefully putting him on his medication arriving tomorrow will remedy this in a few days.

(Unless the epsom salt is responsible for the smell.)

 

I’ve noticed his water is fairly rank when I’ve done his daily water changes. I’ve never had any water smell THIS bad. It’s fairly similar to how it smelled in his cup at the pet store. (Not quite as bad, though.) And these are 100% water changes.

This isn’t the usual faint musky, swampy smell, either. It’s similar to that of a public restroom.

Hopefully putting him on his medication arriving tomorrow will remedy this in a few days.

(Unless the epsom salt is responsible for the smell.)

Epsom salts don’t smell bad. I’d assume it’s something else.

 

Epsom salts don’t smell bad. I’d assume it’s something else.

I was guessing the epsom salt wasn’t what was causing the smell. But being new to using it, wanted to make sure it didn’t cause odors after sitting in water for a few hours. Thanks for the info!

I’m hoping this isn’t something deeper than popeye or a bacterial infection; something like fish tuberculosis. (I’ve been extremely careful, regardless. I use plain, disposable plastic gloves when dealing with quarrantine tanks.) Highly doubt it’s tuberculosis, though. He’s a fairly active swimmer, usually stays around the center of the tank instead of the top or bottom, stays upright, has a healthy looking body, gils and fins, etc...

 

I was guessing the epsom salt wasn’t what was causing the smell. But being new to using it, wanted to make sure it didn’t cause odors after sitting in water for a few hours. Thanks for the info!

I’m hoping this isn’t something deeper than popeye or a bacterial infection; something like fish tuberculosis. (I’ve been extremely careful, regardless. I use plain, disposable plastic gloves when dealing with quarrantine tanks.) Highly doubt it’s tuberculosis, though. He’s a fairly active swimmer, usually stays around the center of the tank instead of the top or bottom, stays upright, has a healthy looking body, gils and fins, etc...

no it definitely sounds like popeye to me

 

It's not tuberculosis, because tuberculosis can't survive in water. Your fish has popeye.

The mycobacterial infections that *can* survive in water cause a completely different set of symptoms in bettas.

Edit: Also, please don't feed him a pea. Bettas need mostly high protein foods. Peas are all fiber, and act as a laxative which is the last thing he needs, especially if he hasn't been eating for a while.

 

It's not tuberculosis, because tuberculosis can't survive in water. Your fish has popeye.

The mycobacterial infections that *can* survive in water cause a completely different set of symptoms in bettas.

Edit: Also, please don't feed him a pea. Bettas need mostly high protein foods. Peas are all fiber, and act as a laxative which is the last thing he needs, especially if he hasn't been eating for a while.

Okay! Thanks for the info. I must have stumbled upon some dud articles that told me popeye was a symptom of it. (Hence me annoying everyone here with question after question. Haha!)

And I wasn’t planning on feeding him any peas. I’m seeing that epsom salt can act as a laxative, so I didn’t want to put the little guy’s digestive tract into overdrive.

He may have had a slight bout of constipation on top of all this, though. He just had his first movement since I brought him home on Friday. (Even then there was no feces in his cup.) It was VERY sizeable. So much so that I thought it was an eye and panicked when I first saw it.

Anyway, thanks once again for the info and taking the time to reply! I really appreciate it!

 

Aww, poor little guy with the constipation haha. I'm glad he was able to pass whatever it was.

Epsom salt is a diuretic, so it would be the best treatment for his popeye as long as you're not leaving him in it for extended periods, as it will draw some of the fluid out of his swollen eyes. I would also add antibiotics to his food, if you're able to get him to eat, and if not, add them to his water. I may have mentioned it before, but Maracyn-2 would be a good place to start.

The articles you're reading are probably referring to "Fish TB" which is a non-descript name most fishkeepers attribute to any number of symptoms they can't explain. However it's not tuberculosis and most likely and most often refers to mycobacteria marinum, which is a cousin of M. tuberculosis that can survive in water. If the fish doesn't have an active Mycobacterial infection causing wasting and color change, often what you get instead is a series of symptoms, each fairly individual, as the result of a compromised immune system. Often these are bacterial infections, so popeye can definitely occur, but I wouldn't assume that just because the little guy has popeye, that he also has mycobacteria.

Popeye is really common in bettas that are kept in dirty water. So the best thing you can do is keep his water clean. The stinky smell you're getting in his tank is likely the result of his popeye infection (bacteria can be smelly haha) but should clear up as the infection starts to go away.

Good luck with your little friend!

 

Update: I was able to get 4-5 small pellets down him today! He has trouble aiming to eat a single pellet, so I put small clusters of 5 in each corner of his tank to give him a bigger target. Even if he missed the pellet he was aiming for, he had a good chance of gulping down a neighboring one in his attempt. (I’m doing this before his water changes, so all of the leftover pellets get removed through that.)

It’s giving me hope that his sight is improving in at least one eye! (As of now, he only notices the pellets when they are to his left. Until today, he wouldn’t notice them at all.)

Once again, thank you so much, everyone, for the replies, input, reccomendations, and help. The little guy might not be here right now without you!

 

Aww, poor little guy with the constipation haha. I'm glad he was able to pass whatever it was.

Epsom salt is a diuretic, so it would be the best treatment for his popeye as long as you're not leaving him in it for extended periods, as it will draw some of the fluid out of his swollen eyes. I would also add antibiotics to his food, if you're able to get him to eat, and if not, add them to his water. I may have mentioned it before, but Maracyn-2 would be a good place to start.

The articles you're reading are probably referring to "Fish TB" which is a non-descript name most fishkeepers attribute to any number of symptoms they can't explain. However it's not tuberculosis and most likely and most often refers to mycobacteria marinum, which is a cousin of M. tuberculosis that can survive in water. If the fish doesn't have an active Mycobacterial infection causing wasting and color change, often what you get instead is a series of symptoms, each fairly individual, as the result of a compromised immune system. Often these are bacterial infections, so popeye can definitely occur, but I wouldn't assume that just because the little guy has popeye, that he also has mycobacteria.

Popeye is really common in bettas that are kept in dirty water. So the best thing you can do is keep his water clean. The stinky smell you're getting in his tank is likely the result of his popeye infection (bacteria can be smelly haha) but should clear up as the infection starts to go away.

Good luck with your little friend!

I’ve started him on his antibiotic. However, I’m using Kanaplex from Seachem on him. But I’ll keep Maracyn-2 in mind if this hasn’t done anything for him by the end of its recommended dosing. I’m adding it to his water starting out; eating isn’t a garauntee right now. I was able to get 4-5 small pellets in his belly today, but it was a tad difficult. Once he can see better or gets used to this feeding method, I’ll switch to soaking.

Thanks for the info on microbactria marinum! It’s given me a bit more peace of mind in that department. (I’m the type to always assume the worst thing possible when something goes awry. Haha! My family was even worse, they were worried I was going to give them “fish tuberculosis” through the fish.)

Everything is A-OK in the clean water department. I’ve been giving him large, daily changes. He gets his salt bath as I set up the tank with fresh, treated water. Good news is, his water was fairly regular smelling for the first time time today; hoping that’s a good sign!

Once again, thank you so much for the info, recommendations, and concern. I appreciate it, and I’m sure he does too! (Even if he’s unaware of it. Haha!)

 

Okay! Thanks for the info. I must have stumbled upon some dud articles that told me popeye was a symptom of it. (Hence me annoying everyone here with question after question. Haha!)

And I wasn’t planning on feeding him any peas. I’m seeing that epsom salt can act as a laxative, so I didn’t want to put the little guy’s digestive tract into overdrive.

He may have had a slight bout of constipation on top of all this, though. He just had his first movement since I brought him home on Friday. (Even then there was no feces in his cup.) It was VERY sizeable. So much so that I thought it was an eye and panicked when I first saw it.

Anyway, thanks once again for the info and taking the time to reply! I really appreciate it!

I laughed reading that piece about the eye poop....

 

I laughed reading that piece about the eye poop....

Haha! I laughed at myself after I realized what it was. It was a huge, perfectly round clump, attached to a long, more stringy section, and I was just there being “Aaaaah! That’s his eye and the little nerve that connects to it!”

 

Sounds like he is doing much better, especially since he is eating.

For the record I was only recommending peas as a laxative to be used occasionally, not as a food staple. I feed peas to my fish once a week to keep things more regular, but it definitely isn’t their primary source of nutrition. I had a feeling he may be constipated since he wasn’t eating.

Pop-eye is a symptom, but cloudy-eye is a type of infection. Pop-eye is a symptom of swelling inside the body somewhere, usually cause by an infection or constipation. So it makes sense to treat for both.

Both Maracyn-2 and kanaplex are gram negative antibiotics. So they will treat similar bacterias. I had recommended kanaplex because of the vision issues. In case it was a case of cloudy eye. It seems to treat it the best.

Hopefully he continues to get better and better.

 

I can't wait to see him healthy and thriving! =)))

 

Sounds like he is doing much better, especially since he is eating.

For the record I was only recommending peas as a laxative to be used occasionally, not as a food staple. I feed peas to my fish once a week to keep things more regular, but it definitely isn’t their primary source of nutrition. I had a feeling he may be constipated since he wasn’t eating.

Pop-eye is a symptom, but cloudy-eye is a type of infection. Pop-eye is a symptom of swelling inside the body somewhere, usually cause by an infection or constipation. So it makes sense to treat for both.

Both Maracyn-2 and kanaplex are gram negative antibiotics. So they will treat similar bacterias. I had recommended kanaplex because of the vision issues. In case it was a case of cloudy eye. It seems to treat it the best.

Hopefully he continues to get better and better.

Oh, I myself am definitely a fan of peas. I usually have to end up using them when I’m seeing what amount of food works well for a new Betta. (Heck, most of the new ones I get from the store usually come constipated.) If they start looking a little round in the abdomen, I’ll give them a pea after a day if I see no improvement. I was just refraining from a pea for a bit since Epsom salt can apparently also act as a laxative.

But yep! He was indeed constipated. I was happy to find normal droppings in his tank today as compared to what he left the other day.

Kanaplex is what I’m using as of now! Seachem is my go-to brand for any type of water treatment or meds.

Thanks again for the info, suggestions, and concerns! Things are looking up for the little guy right now! (Knock on wood.)

 

I can't wait to see him healthy and thriving! =)))

Same here! Things are looking good right now! He’s becoming even more active, his colors are improving, and he seems to be reacting to visual stimulI more and more every day! Hoping he gets to have one of those before and after aquatic success stories. Haha!

 

I'm really happy to hear that he is getting better!

 

Hey everyone! Just an update! He’s still thriving and active; MUCH more responsive to his surroundings than before! His eye swelling still remains; has gone down a tad, but has somewhat plateaued for the past few days. However, he’s regained his vision well enough to be able to eat without assistance. (Or has possibly gotten better at targeting his pellets with his handicap.) He seems to be moving his eyes more when viewing something as opposed to turning his entire head to his “good” side to see as he did when I first brought him home.

He just finished his first round of Kanaplex a couple of days ago. Even though it can be dosed back to back, I’m going to give his kidneys a break from it and the epsom salt baths for a week or two, and possibly see if keeping the water quality high is enough to let him finish his recovery on his own. (Given he keeps improving.)

Thanks once again to everyone for the help and concern! He probably wouldn’t have made it to the point he has without your help!

 

Hey everyone! Just an update! He’s still thriving and active; MUCH more responsive to his surroundings than before! His eye swelling still remains; has gone down a tad, but has somewhat plateaued for the past few days. However, he’s regained his vision well enough to be able to eat without assistance. (Or has possibly gotten better at targeting his pellets with his handicap.) He seems to be moving his eyes more when viewing something as opposed to turning his entire head to his “good” side to see as he did when I first brought him home.

He just finished his first round of Kanaplex a couple of days ago. Even though it can be dosed back to back, I’m going to give his kidneys a break from it and the epsom salt baths for a week or two, and possibly see if keeping the water quality high is enough to let him finish his recovery on his own. (Given he keeps improving.)

Thanks once again to everyone for the help and concern! He probably wouldn’t have made it to the point he has without your help!

I'm so happy to hear that!

 

i’m so glad !!! he’s so lucky you found him I hope he only continues to improve ! they’re strong little guys

 

Any updates? Wondering how he's doing!

 

Any updates? Wondering how he's doing!

Hopefully he's recovering. Picture updates would be greatly appreciated.

 

I was actually typing up an update yesterday! But had something urgent arise with another Betta of mine.

His eyes are still about where they were during my last update. (One has gone down a smidge.) However, he’s still been showing great improvement in energy, responsiveness and eating! He now comes to the side of his tank at feeding time, and is able to eat much quicker than he originally did. He just finished a second round of Kanaplex last Wednesday.

His right eye (his right, our left.) is looking to finally be receding a bit. (As I said last time, they had kind of plateaued in healing for a little while.) I’m growing a little concerned about his left eye (his left, our right) as it’s not showing a ton of difference. It does seem to be receding a bit in the back, though, so I’m hopeful. (I’ve seen that effects from popeye can last a couple of months sometimes.)




(Had to shine a flashlight on him for this one.)



I’m buying him a permanent, 5 gallon tank this week, as he’s proving to be generally healthy now, other than his ocular handicap. (He’s getting a bigger playground for Christmas!) Still without substrate and decor until he recovers.

However, I did purchase him a Betta leaf/hammock, which he’s been happily using. As it’s no more rough than his heater and filter, I don’t think he could injure himself on it. I’m also considering building him a “log” out of a smooth, PVC T-joint for his new tank. So he has a place to hide. I attach them to the side of the tank with suction cups and fishing line.

My boy Reggie lounges in his a lot when he’s not flaring at everything in the world. Haha!




He spotted me taking a pic, and flared. Haha!



Anyway! As always, thanks so much for remembering and being concerned about the little guy! (I’ve named him Kamakakoa, which is Hawaiian for Courageous Eye. May change that later. Haha!) I hope everyone has a terrific holiday season, if you celebrate!

 

Another quick update: He’ll be one happy betta, as he’s getting upgraded from the hospital tank to a 10 gallon tank instead of the 5 gallon one I had planned!

 

Glad to hear he's recovering well!! Where did you get the betta leaf from? I should get my betta one as well.

 

Glad to hear he's recovering well!! Where did you get the betta leaf from? I should get my betta one as well.

Thanks!

I get my Betta hammocks/leaves from Amazon. The Zoo Med brand. (I’ve also had luck finding them in Pet Supplies Plus stores, but they’re not always in stock.)



They also come in a three pack, which is a much better price per-leaf.



However, some of my bettas don’t use them. I have some that love to relax on them, some that could care less and ignore them, and one in particular who loves to flare at his from time to time. Haha! So there is a bit of a gamble when getting them.