Save Pumpkin’s Fin.. Oranda Goldfish

sleeprequired

Ok so a week ago Pumpkin, my special needs fancy Oranda managed to get his pectoral fin caught in a pump. It split and tore and he stopped using it but has begun to start using it again....

However there’s a white haze over the fin and honestly it’s been getting worse. I can’t work out if the damage was done on the pump and this is the natural dies off and it will heal or if I need to treat.

I have added awuarium conditioner salts, temp is 72f, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. He’s in a quarantine bin and I’ve been doing daily water changes. I’ve done my best to transfer media but I don’t think the tank is cycled but I’m monitoring the water twice a day.

Here are some photos


Please help me save pumpkins fin....

Is it a case of clean water and wait, or should we treat? And with what?

More photos. The fin has split and you can see the opaque coating on the front part, the bottom part is ok. There’s missing fin in the middle. Poor pumpkin
 

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Gypsy13

Hello! Welcome to fishlore!

If there’s no redness or white fuzz, clean water with the salt should do. You can get methylene blue as well. It’ll not only help in healing but also stain the damaged tissue so it’s easier to see healing. Swabbing the fin (gently) with 3% hydrogen peroxide is also an option. Keep the fuzzies away.
Poor little one. You’re doing great so far.
 

sleeprequired

Yes! I swabbed the fin with 6% hydrogen peroxide and all the cotton wool fluff has come off.

There are just a few fin spines and there’s some white tissue at the base of the fin. I’ll try to get a photo of the fin currently
 

sleeprequired

Here are some s. This is the fin after the fungus has dropped off. You can see ya the very base is black and then there’s white but it’s not ‘fluffy’ anymore. Honestly it feels like the fin was dying from the injury and the fungus only attacked the dying tissue.

In some of the photos you can see the bottom part of the pectoral fin is healthy and black. The middle is missing and the top you can still see where the fin used to be ...

My question is apart from pristine water and aquarium conditioning salts and aloe is there anything else I should do at this point?
 

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Gypsy13

I would give him methylene blue baths personally. Other than that, keep an eye on it. Watch for any signs of infection not only in/on this fin but the rest of him too. Stress lets in nasty stuff. Let it heal and think positive.
 

sleeprequired

Will that have a negative effect on the beneficial bacteria? I have heard applying directly as well.

Do you have a link on the baths. I could google it but honestly fish disease treatments are hard to google. If you know how to do it I’ll give it a shot
 

Gypsy13

Will that have a negative effect on the beneficial bacteria? I have heard applying directly as well.

Do you have a link on the baths. I could google it but honestly fish disease treatments are hard to google. If you know how to do it I’ll give it a shot

You don’t want mblue in your tank. Baths are wonderful. Making sure the temp is the same is the main thing. The directions will be on the bottle. Depends on the brand you get. It’s really easy. Let us know which brand you grab. I’ll be glad to walk you through it. I wish I could give you a link. Just not able anymore. If you go to aquarium forum tab, you can scroll through the mblue info there.
 

sleeprequired

I went to my LFS and he looked at the photos and said to use trI sulfa Instead of methylene blue. He was very insistent as he said it was a bad case.

So I’ve dosed as per the instructions but theirs says use 1 tablet every 3 days, where the API one says a sachet every 24 hours with water changes.

So confusing. I’m not usually persuaded so easily and I was all set to get the methylene blue....

Hope I haven’t totally screwed up.

On the plus side little pumpkin is still a massive greedy guys and is enjoying peas and garlic and the odd bit of Repashy super gold at the moment.

The other thing I’ve been meaning to ask is will the fin grow back based on the photos?
 

Gypsy13

Triple sulfa isn’t going to hurt him. From what you’ve said it’s not infected yet so I’m not sure what they mean by a bad case. Bad case of what? Did you tell them it was an injury?
Anyway, like I said it won’t hurt him. May even help.

From what hubby describes, at least part of the fin should grow back. Depends on the damage to the rays. Still beautiful.
 

sleeprequired

Yeah I did tell him but honestly I don’t think he quite believed I knew what I was talking about re the injury. I get the feeling that he assessed the photos and drew his own conclusion.

Ok I’ll continue the dose. While I’m dosing, there is an other buoyancy problem with this fish where when he’s relaxing he floats to the top unlike my other fish who rest near the bottom. I’ve been wondering if it’s a bacterial swim bladder issue.

While I’ve got the trisulfa in the tank would it be worth crushing some and putting it in his food? And if so how much?
 

Gypsy13

How long has the buoyancy thing been going on? After the injury?
 

sleeprequired

The bouyancy issue has been from day 1. We purchased online and it was shipped to us.

On another note. After adding the trisulfa last night today I’ve noticed this!!! On his gills on the same side as the fin injury the area has darkened!! It wasn’t like that before I added the trI sulfa

Oh no!!

There’s before and after

For the record I’ve used hydrogen peroxide topical ( was bery careful not to get on fins ), then the fungus melted off. Then a 1 day wait and onto trisulfa, and now this new issue!!

I am doing regular water changes in a non-cycled aquarium and the ammonia was 0-.25.

with the trI sulfa medication I’m using prime to detoxify ammonia. The highest it’s reached is .50

Now his Gill looks like this around the affected fin. The other side is fine. I’ve been feeding garlic and peas as well as a bit of Oranda gold Repashy. HELP!!

Poor little guy
 

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Gypsy13

The trisulfa didn’t make the gill darken. It could be from the injury itself. And when you used the peroxide you made sure not to get any in the gills?
Poor little thing. Do you have a container you could set up as hospital? Stress is hard enough without trying to deal with the ups and downs of cycling. Keep up with the water changes. If you do decide on hospital, we’ll add a bit of aquarium salt to help with gill function.
You may want to get the methylene blue in case ammonia poisoning. Once the injury starts healing we’ll all feel better.
 

sleeprequired

With the peroxide I used a q-tip and only painted the fin but I didn’t dry the surrounding area so who knows. maybe a tiny bit of the peroxide mixed with his wet skin? The base of the pectoral fin is very close to the bottom of the gills....

Ok I’ve done a 100% water change and all the parameters are spot on. along with adding blue aquarium condition which has a range of salts and minerals. I also have another bin for water changes and now an emergency fish tank which I’m doing a fishless cycle on.

I’ve got a pond (which he came from) so I’m going to pull some media and put it in the tank if need be.

So basically if the ammonia climbs at all I’ve got a tank I can instantly cycle in an emergency and put him in there.

I also resdosed the trI sulfa given I did a 100% water change. No harm doing a methylene blue bath while treating? If you could PM me a link you think is correct I’ll do it tomorrow.

Little greedy guts never fails at dinner time but I’m backing off now simply because of risk of ammonia.
 

Gypsy13

With the peroxide I used a q-tip and only painted the fin but I didn’t dry the surrounding area so who knows. maybe a tiny bit of the peroxide mixed with his wet skin? The base of the pectoral fin is very close to the bottom of the gills....

Ok I’ve done a 100% water change and all the parameters are spot on. along with adding blue aquarium condition which has a range of salts and minerals. I also have another bin for water changes and now an emergency fish tank which I’m doing a fishless cycle on.

I’ve got a pond (which he came from) so I’m going to pull some media and put it in the tank if need be.

So basically if the ammonia climbs at all I’ve got a tank I can instantly cycle in an emergency and put him in there.

I also resdosed the trI sulfa given I did a 100% water change. No harm doing a methylene blue bath while treating? If you could PM me a link you think is correct I’ll do it tomorrow.

Little greedy guts never fails at dinner time but I’m backing off now simply because of risk of ammonia.

Greedy guts is good. And you can do mblue too.
For some reason the voice over function doesn’t help when it comes to trying to copy a link. It’s just one of the frustrating things I’ve come to accept.
Most of my mblue baths are:
1/2 teaspoon aquarium salt dissolved in 1 gallon tank water
Several (4-5) drops of Kordon mblue. (**** MethyBlu is stronger so takes less)
Place the fish in the bath for about 10 minutes.
Twice a day.

I’d give this wee one a little break after the sulfa. Not the sulfa itself, just the stress of being medicated.
How is it looking today? Especially the gills?
 

sleeprequired

Yeah I’m treating the sulfa and looking good. Little fella still spends a lot of time on the surface. Once this is all done I’d like to try and address it. He’s just a tad too positively buoyant.

So the gills .... darker but seems more localised now

Here’s a photo of him side on and one of how he rests when he’s not swimming.

At the top that’s how he rests, once he gets over a foot down he will go tail up the moment he stops swimming

Btw, I’ve got the mblue on hand now, you suggest waiting until the sulfa is done?
 

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Gypsy13

Yeah I’m treating the sulfa and looking good. Little fella still spends a lot of time on the surface. Once this is all done I’d like to try and address it. He’s just a tad too positively buoyant.

So the gills .... darker but seems more localised now

Here’s a photo of him side on and one of how he rests when he’s not swimming.

At the top that’s how he rests, once he gets over a foot down he will go tail up the moment he stops swimming

Btw, I’ve got the mblue on hand now, you suggest waiting until the sulfa is done?

Do an mblue bath. Let’s see how much damage we’re dealing with.
 

sleeprequired

Ok will do. Can you reuse the bath more than once?
 

sleeprequired

Ok done. The one I got was aqua sonic which is 12mg per 20L dose. That translates to 1ml per 4 litres.

I’ve done 8 drops in 1 gallon of water which I think is about half because I wasn’t able to work out the conversion for the Kordon product so I’ve erred on the side of caution for now.

So the blue shot is him in the bath and then afterwards is the clear water. We get a good look at his fin.

The methylene didn’t appear to affect the black near the gills or the fin. The fin seems to be going very well. Getting bigger daily.
 

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Gypsy13

Ok done. The one I got was aqua sonic which is 12mg per 20L dose. That translates to 1ml per 4 litres.

I’ve done 8 drops in 1 gallon of water which I think is about half because I wasn’t able to work out the conversion for the Kordon product so I’ve erred on the side of caution for now.

So the blue shot is him in the bath and then afterwards is the clear water. We get a good look at his fin.

The methylene didn’t appear to affect the black near the gills or the fin. The fin seems to be going very well. Getting bigger daily.

No, don’t reuse the bath.
The second pic didn’t load?
 

Gypsy13

Oh wow! That sounds like it looks much better!

As long as he’s eating and acting fine, I’d let that heal on up. You’ve got the mblue and trI sulfa if you need it.
I’m going to tag Goldiemom so she can help if you need it. I’m taking a break. You’ll both be in my thoughts and heart. I’ll be checking in with Goldiemom to see how the fin is healing.
Take care. Positive thoughts!
 

sleeprequired

Thanks for all your support! Tell me, was the mblue mainly to see if anything stained blue then that’s was dead tissue?

In your opinion, what would be the best thing to try and see if we can cure his positive bouyancy? I’ve tried all the peas and raising the water temp and he’s not consitpated so I’m thinking it might be a bacterial infection.

After that I’m wondering if it’s simply his body shape? There’s photos there of what he looks like I’m wondering if an expert can say ‘“yeah no wonder her floats with that shape!” Or “he should be fine, so try this or that”.

Basically I’ve exhausted all the food, diet, temperature issues etc.
 

Goldiemom

Thanks for all your support! Tell me, was the mblue mainly to see if anything stained blue then that’s was dead tissue?

In your opinion, what would be the best thing to try and see if we can cure his positive bouyancy? I’ve tried all the peas and raising the water temp and he’s not consitpated so I’m thinking it might be a bacterial infection.

After that I’m wondering if it’s simply his body shape? There’s photos there of what he looks like I’m wondering if an expert can say ‘“yeah no wonder her floats with that shape!” Or “he should be fine, so try this or that”.

Basically I’ve exhausted all the food, diet, temperature issues etc.
Methylene blue is a medication. It’s good for skin issues, ammonia burns, fin rot, etc. If he’s had the buoyancy problem since day 1, he may have a defect. After you get everything else cleared up you can try Epsom salt baths. I’ll talk to Gypsy and get other suggestions.
 

sleeprequired

Methylene blue is a medication. It’s good for skin issues, ammonia burns, fin rot, etc. If he’s had the buoyancy problem since day 1, he may have a defect. After you get everything else cleared up you can try Epsom salt baths. I’ll talk to Gypsy and get other suggestions.
Thanks for dropping by Goldiemom. Ok that’s good to know. Re the bouyancy the goldfish breeder said it wasn’t an issue when they shipped however it has been for me since it arrived... honestly I’m a bit suspect on that as well.

I think maybe the bouyancy has improved a little because he used to rest tail up, now he rests at the top but horizontal. He can get down about a foot or more and hang around there for a bit but the deeper he goes the more he goes tail up.

I have fasted, fed peas, he’s pooping normally so I don’t think it’s anything to do with digestion etc. I’ll try some Epsom salt baths. What’s the regime you’d suggest?

After that I’m interested to know what sort of anti-bacterial treatment might work? I’m in Australia so we have limited medication.

After that we will assume he’s just special needs ...
 

sleeprequired

Ok I went to my local aquarium guy and told him about the bouyancy issue. He’s got this yellow powder called azoo bacteria treatment powder. He swears by it and if there’s no improvement then it’s a permanent issue.

Image attached it’s red sachet weighing 8 grams which treats 400L. 1 treatment per 24 hours for 3 days, then 50% water change
 

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Goldiemom

Not familiar with it but by all means, give it a try. Keep us posted.
 

sleeprequired

Fin healing in progress ... some shots to say thank you to everyone who’s helped.

Also some shots showing Pumpkins bouyancy issues. One is floating on top, usually done at 45 degree angle, then some other shots. He can get horizontal when he’s wimming properly but will often go full vertical and will float back up to the surface.

Also that medication contains nitrofurantion, mentronidajal & tinidajal.
 

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Gypsy13

Hey. Just a quickie. The fin is healing wonderfully. Great job!

The buoyancy problem has been since you got this little one. Hasn’t gotten any worse since you got him? Been a little better since the fin injury? I’m thinking if it was bacterial it would’ve gotten worse. The fin injury forced him to swim a bit differently for a bit. He has trouble the deeper he goes because there’s more pressure on his swim bladder at the bottom of the tank than the top. I’m not sure what the treatment you bought is. I don’t think it’ll make any difference on the buoyancy problem.
Hoping for wonderful updates and postings. Positive thoughts.
 

sleeprequired

Hey. Just a quickie. The fin is healing wonderfully. Great job!

The buoyancy problem has been since you got this little one. Hasn’t gotten any worse since you got him? Been a little better since the fin injury? I’m thinking if it was bacterial it would’ve gotten worse. The fin injury forced him to swim a bit differently for a bit. He has trouble the deeper he goes because there’s more pressure on his swim bladder at the bottom of the tank than the top. I’m not sure what the treatment you bought is. I don’t think it’ll make any difference on the buoyancy problem.
Hoping for wonderful updates and postings. Positive thoughts.

Yeah the fin is doing really well. I’m into the third day of treatment for the bouyancy. It’s a combination of metronidazole, Tinidazole, and nitrofurantoin.

Basically this will rule out bacterial infection so that leaves parasites or deflation with a needle. I’ve been looking into that but I’m thinking his issue isn’t so chronic that he couldn’t lead a Happy life.

Over the last 24 hours I swear he’s having an easier time swimming under water and staying down for longer as well. I also feel like his back end is deflating a little but honestly it might be wishful thinking.

I’ve had him for about 2 months
 

JadeMau

My little guy can't control his swim bladder, he's gotten so strong that he power dives to the bottom and suspends himself down there with a single fin (that and wedging himself vertically upside down under/between the suction cups of his temp control are his new favorite things xD). He's mad swole, bro. XD

So, yeah, if it ends up being a birth defect or permanent injury it's okay, they adapt and my boy is a pretty happy sweet little guy, so, don't be to stressed about that.

Pumpkin is adorable , by the way, the name is very apt.
 

sleeprequired

My little guy can't control his swim bladder, he's gotten so strong that he power dives to the bottom and suspends himself down there with a single fin (that and wedging himself vertically upside down under/between the suction cups of his temp control are his new favorite things xD). He's mad swole, bro. XD

So, yeah, if it ends up being a birth defect or permanent injury it's okay, they adapt and my boy is a pretty happy sweet little guy, so, don't be to stressed about that.

Pumpkin is adorable , by the way, the name is very apt.
Haha yeah I might have to accept that pumpkin is ‘special needs’

A fish that isn’t good at swimming.... go figure


***STOP THE PRESS***

Pumpkin has graduated from novice snorkeler to free diver! He’s in a 15 gallon bin over a foot down and sifting through gravel for minutes on end!!!

This is great news!!! When he’s tuckered out he only floats up a couple of inches! He hasn’t been near the surface of the water for minutes!!

He is actually having to angle his body up and swim to the surface now!!!

Next graduation level is scuba diver, then full fish qualification!!

Hope it’s not just me imagining it but I definitely have never seen him have to do anything but stop swimming to hit the surface before!!
 

Gypsy13

Hey! How is Pumpkin?
 

sleeprequired

It seems I was overly optimistic.... put him back in the tank and he got caught on an internal filter. Jeez I had it on the lowest setting and it’s rated for the quarantine tank size.

Hes really struggling on deaths door again. I’m at the end of my tether now. I have clove oil but waiting to see how he goes.

Poor pumpkin
 

Gypsy13

Oh no! I’m so sorry! I’ve got tears running. I can only imagine how you must feel. Poor Pumpkin. I’m sending positive thoughts and prayers just in case. He is a fighter.
Let me know ok?
 

sleeprequired

In desperation I have vented poor pumpkins swim bladder. He is now sitting on the bottom lightly and recovering. I didn’t have the resources to get an X-ray but managed to remove about 1ml of air without too much trouble.

He’s now sitting on the bottom, hopefully his swim bladder improves over the next few days to a week.

Does anyone know what the odd are of the swim bladder re-inflating once he’s had a few days to get over the surgery?

I don’t want him to suffer but if he has a good chance of pulling through I’ll keep going.

Very hard and stressful for us all but he’s worth it. I John st don’t want him to suffer if there’s no chance of recovery...

Edit
Pumpkin is still a greedy guts
 

Gypsy13

How is his swimming?
Btw, I think you’re an amazing finparent!
 

Discus-Tang

In desperation I have vented poor pumpkins swim bladder. He is now sitting on the bottom lightly and recovering. I didn’t have the resources to get an X-ray but managed to remove about 1ml of air without too much trouble.

He’s now sitting on the bottom, hopefully his swim bladder improves over the next few days to a week.

Does anyone know what the odd are of the swim bladder re-inflating once he’s had a few days to get over the surgery?

I don’t want him to suffer but if he has a good chance of pulling through I’ll keep going.

Very hard and stressful for us all but he’s worth it. I John st don’t want him to suffer if there’s no chance of recovery...

Edit
Pumpkin is still a greedy guts
The swim bladder wouldn't be able to re-inflate for a while if you punctured it. Make sure the water is very clean and only feed him high-fibre foods for now (daphnia & thawed, skinned garden peas)
 

sleeprequired

He’s pooping and eating fine, he’s pretty good on the food. Little greedy guts. Feeding peas and medicated gel food. Repashy solid gold.

He’s on the bottom for sure. Cannot really swim up off the bottom for now, he’s still feeing a little sorry for himself.

I’m hoping it’ll reinflate. I feel like he’s a bit lighter than he was. I’ll keep going for now hoping things settle down and move back to their normal position internally. Hopefully that swim bladder will recover otherwise I’ll have some hard decisions to make.

How long is a reasonable time without him suffering too much?

By the way thanks for your support guys & gals

The tank is still cycling and I’m doing 50% water changes twice daily to keep the nitrites down. Ammonia not a problem.
 

Gypsy13

As long as he’s eating and pooing he’s got a chance. Don’t you dare give up on him. If he starts to suffer you’ll know it. Then you’ll have to make the hard decision. For now like discustang says clean water and what I like to call smooth food. Because it goes through the intestines smoothly.
We’re with you 100%.
 

sleeprequired

Alright! i'm all pumped up. Yeah he's definitely got a clean and smooth system right now, i'm feeding medicated repashy and peas. heaps of short green poop this morning. Keeping the nitrites down is hard work, twice daily water changes until those bacteria finally show up in decent number.
 

sleeprequired

Ok so I’m back with an update. Ended up keeping old floatey in a basket at the top of the aquarium and now pumpkin is bake to his bouyancy best. Unfortunately this was the original problem and now he’s developing rfinrot on the tail fin that sticks out of the water.

High maintenance fish!! Spends a lot of time in the photo position.
 

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Gypsy13

Fin dry out. Use a cotton swab and lightly coat the constantly exposed parts with Vaseline. It’ll keep it from getting too dried out. You might want to swab it with one of the following to prevent infection: hydrogen peroxide, methylene blue or betadine. He’s such a cutie!
 

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