Ryukin questions

Alright, so I am planning on getting a 75-gallon tank with a bubble eye, pearlscale, ranchu, red cap oranda, dragon eye and a rubber lip pleco. Originally I was planning on getting a ryukin instead of the dragon eye, but after hearing that they are somewhat aggressive and shouldn't be kept with fragile fish like the bubble eye, but lately I have heard conflicting information about whether or not that is true. So, my first question is about whether there is truth to this or not.
Then being that I love the shape of the ryukins, I wanted to get another goldfish that shared a body shape, and after looking around I found the dragon eye, which is a telescope with the body of a ryukin, but I have also read that black moor and dragon eye are one and the same. Is that true?
My last question is whether I will need to do anything special for these fish.

 

Generally, the more handicapped breeds of goldfish should be kept with similarly impaired goldfish. I’ve seen people keep telescopes with pearlscales and orandas, but not bubble eyes. Bubble eyes are probably the most fragile breed of goldfish; they are very slow, their eyes are fixed upward like a celestial eye so their vision is impaired, and the bubbles are prone to popping and infection. I’d keep bubble eyes in their own baby-proofed tank with only other bubble eyes.

Pearlscales have extremely short bodies, which can cause a lot of internal problems. Their hardened scales can also cause some problems with circulation in the skin, and if a scale ever falls off, a normal scale grows back in its place. With pearlscales, no dry foods at all; the risk of bloat is too great. Feed them Repashy Super Gold or some other moist food along with blanched vegetables like kale and spinach. Thawed frozen green peas are the absolute favorite of my goldfish.
If this is your first time with goldfish, I’d skip bubble eyes and pearlscales because they are so difficult to keep.

I’d say the only real issue you’d have with a ryukin is that it will likely be faster and better at spotting food than the others. To avoid this, you could train them to hand feed. That way you personally give everyone their fair share.
If anything, the aggression ryukin are supposedly known for is from the fact they get massive and thus can push everyone around easily. Orandas also get massive, but their wen can weigh them down and block their vision.

Black moors are a type of dragon/telescope eye, they however are always black and a true black moor stays black its entire life.
I’d say a “dragon eye” is more of a characteristic that a separate breed. I’ve seen common goldfish with telescope eyes. Black moors are the only breed of telescopes that I know of with defined specifications.

 

Generally, the more handicapped breeds of goldfish should be kept with similarly impaired goldfish. I’ve seen people keep telescopes with pearlscales and orandas, but not bubble eyes. Bubble eyes are probably the most fragile breed of goldfish; they are very slow, their eyes are fixed upward like a celestial eye so their vision is impaired, and the bubbles are prone to popping and infection. I’d keep bubble eyes in their own baby-proofed tank with only other bubble eyes.

Pearlscales have extremely short bodies, which can cause a lot of internal problems. Their hardened scales can also cause some problems with circulation in the skin, and if a scale ever falls off, a normal scale grows back in its place. With pearlscales, no dry foods at all; the risk of bloat is too great. Feed them Repashy Super Gold or some other moist food along with blanched vegetables like kale and spinach. Thawed frozen green peas are the absolute favorite of my goldfish.
If this is your first time with goldfish, I’d skip bubble eyes and pearlscales because they are so difficult to keep.

I’d say the only real issue you’d have with a ryukin is that it will likely be faster and better at spotting food than the others. To avoid this, you could train them to hand feed. That way you personally give everyone their fair share.
If anything, the aggression ryukin are supposedly known for is from the fact they get massive and thus can push everyone around easily. Orandas also get massive, but their wen can weigh them down and block their vision.

Black moors are a type of dragon/telescope eye, they however are always black and a true black moor stays black its entire life.
I’d say a “dragon eye” is more of a characteristic that a separate breed. I’ve seen common goldfish with telescope eyes. Black moors are the only breed of telescopes that I know of with defined specifications.

Alright, do the black moors still have the bodies of the ryukins? And are they less aggressive do to their eyes? And I don't mean to disregard your advice, I'm very thankful, but out of curiosity, I wasn't planning on putting many (if any at all) decorations in my tank and then all that would be in it would be the sand at the bottom, is that baby proofed enough or as the other fish problematic? As for the pearlscale, is the types of food the only difficulty with them, coz I have no problem feeding them differently if thst is the case, but if it'd be best to choose another fish then I understand.

 

I don’t know about moors having the bodies of ryukin (I’ve heard ryukins described as having the body of an oranda), but most that I’ve known are pretty mellow.

I’d say a safe tank for a bubble eye is bare bonesy: no decor, no substrate, and a sponge filter. Just a bare-bottom tank with a low-flow sponge filter. This is also a fine setup for other goldfish, but for several in a 75 gal, I’d have at least 2 sponge filters. Such a tank is also good for telescopes, because their eyes are prone to getting poked since they stick out.

I think the biggest problem for the bubble eye with other goldfish is that it’s so slow, clumsy, and visually restricted that the other fish will bowl it over a lot and the bubble eye won’t be able to defend itself or escape.

With pearlscales, their biggest health issue is their extremely short bodies; their plump physique isn’t from fat, it’s from their organs bulging outwards. Since they have no abdominal space to spare, any amount of bloating will put pressure on their organs, so it’s best to keep their gut clear, and this is done with a diet that keeps them regular. Dry foods can puff up in the gI tract as they absorb water, so feeding them food that’s already moist is best. Repashy has the benefit of a laxitive-like effect; my fish poo A TON when exclusively fed it.

Between the pearlscale and the bubble eye in this situation, I’d stay away from the bubble eye. They’re the most handicapped goldfish breed and will likely have a very hard time living with more able bodied goldfish.
I’ve seen people keep ranchu, telescopes, pearlscales, ryukin, etc. together, but I’ve never seen any of them kept with a bubble eye.

 

I don’t know about moors having the bodies of ryukin (I’ve heard ryukins described as having the body of an oranda), but most that I’ve known are pretty mellow.

I’d say a safe tank for a bubble eye is bare bonesy: no decor, no substrate, and a sponge filter. Just a bare-bottom tank with a low-flow sponge filter. This is also a fine setup for other goldfish, but for several in a 75 gal, I’d have at least 2 sponge filters. Such a tank is also good for telescopes, because their eyes are prone to getting poked since they stick out.

I think the biggest problem for the bubble eye with other goldfish is that it’s so slow, clumsy, and visually restricted that the other fish will bowl it over a lot and the bubble eye won’t be able to defend itself or escape.

With pearlscales, their biggest health issue is their extremely short bodies; their plump physique isn’t from fat, it’s from their organs bulging outwards. Since they have no abdominal space to spare, any amount of bloating will put pressure on their organs, so it’s best to keep their gut clear, and this is done with a diet that keeps them regular. Dry foods can puff up in the gI tract as they absorb water, so feeding them food that’s already moist is best. Repashy has the benefit of a laxitive-like effect; my fish poo A TON when exclusively fed it.

Between the pearlscale and the bubble eye in this situation, I’d stay away from the bubble eye. They’re the most handicapped goldfish breed and will likely have a very hard time living with more able bodied goldfish.
I’ve seen people keep ranchu, telescopes, pearlscales, ryukin, etc. together, but I’ve never seen any of them kept with a bubble eye.

Alright, so I will stay away from the bubble eye, for sure, and I'll do more research on the pearlscale to see if I can handle them. And one more set of questions: would you see any issues with me adding a pompom in place of the bubble eye? And for this tank I was planning on getting a canister filter, would two sponge filters be better? Also, since I want to put the rubber lip pleco in there, should I add a heater as well? And if so, what wattage?

 

A pompom should be fine; most of ones I see are chocolate brown fantails or oranda with some nasal growths. Nothing to worry about. If the poms get huge, they might accidentally suck them in their mouth, but usually nothing really happens when it does occur. The poms just come back out.

A canister filter should be fine, just get one with adjustable flow that can be changed if the current starts blowing the fish around (either by lowering the output or changing the position of the outtake). You may need aeration though.

Goldfish are fine in higher temps as long as they have enough oxygen, so an airstone or something similar will be necessary with a heater. I’d get one that has a wattage rated for the tank size you have, which is usually in a chart on the box. Heaters for 75 gallons are usually 200-300 watts. I’d get a 300 watt one as opposed to a 200 watt one if your house tends to be cold and the heater would need to raise the temp more than 10 degrees. Put the heater somewhere with plenty of flow.

Have fun, goldfish are a blast! They are very personable and will follow you around.
Btw, there is a type of pearlscale called a crowned pearlscale, and they look like they have jelly beans stuck to their heads.

 

A pompom should be fine; most of ones I see are chocolate brown fantails or oranda with some nasal growths. Nothing to worry about. If the poms get huge, they might accidentally suck them in their mouth, but usually nothing really happens when it does occur. The poms just come back out.

A canister filter should be fine, just get one with adjustable flow that can be changed if the current starts blowing the fish around (either by lowering the output or changing the position of the outtake). You may need aeration though.

Goldfish are fine in higher temps as long as they have enough oxygen, so an airstone or something similar will be necessary with a heater. I’d get one that has a wattage rated for the tank size you have, which is usually in a chart on the box. Heaters for 75 gallons are usually 200-300 watts. I’d get a 300 watt one as opposed to a 200 watt one if your house tends to be cold and the heater would need to raise the temp more than 10 degrees. Put the heater somewhere with plenty of flow.

Have fun, goldfish are a blast! They are very personable and will follow you around.
Btw, there is a type of pearlscale called a crowned pearlscale, and they look like they have jelly beans stuck to their heads.

Perfect, thank you so much, all this has been extremely helpful! I'm gonna bug you with one final question though, would a canister or 2 sponge filters be better for this tank?

 

Perfect, thank you so much, all this has been extremely helpful! I'm gonna bug you with one final question though, would a canister or 2 sponge filters be better for this tank?

Sorry to be noncommittal, but it’s honestly up to your personal preference. Sponge filters are great because they are cheap, gentle, and efficient, but their actual cleaning ability other than biological isn’t that good (and I personally think they look hideous). A canister is better at removing debris and is easy to hide, but is much more expensive and high flow.
I personally use hob filters, but those have their own issues; I’d say the biggest in your case is fish ramming into the intake. Mine do that, so I put a prefilter sponge on as a cushion.

I guess if I had to pick one, a canister is better at keeping a large tank clean and looks much nicer.
If you have too much trouble with the canister being too powerful, you could hook up a few sponge filters to your air pump instead.

Good luck!

 

Soooo I'm just gonna interject, I got a pompon by accident from a pet store (it was too young to have them yet and was mislabeled). The pompoms actually give her a *lot* of trouble, they are clearly uncomfortable, and got stuck in her mouth so much she wasn't able to properly eat. I did surgery to trim them, which helped... but it didn't take long for the issues to return. Finally I bit the bullet and cut them off ENTIRELY (which was incredibly intimidating). Her nasal openings are permanently gaping wide from the strain of the pompoms pulling on them....

After I cut off the growths she was like a whole different fish.. active and excited and foraging all over the tank. I think they were really impairing her in ways that were hard to see.

I short, I would avoid pompoms, I feel like the mutation shouldn't be encouraged and it's irresponsible at best :/


(I use a sponge filter + canister on my 75G)

 

Soooo I'm just gonna interject, I got a pompon by accident from a pet store (it was too young to have them yet and was mislabeled). The pompoms actually give her a *lot* of trouble, they are clearly uncomfortable, and got stuck in her mouth so much she wasn't able to properly eat. I did surgery to trim them, which helped... but it didn't take long for the issues to return. Finally I bit the bullet and cut them off ENTIRELY (which was incredibly intimidating). Her nasal openings are permanently gaping wide from the strain of the pompoms pulling on them....

After I cut off the growths she was like a whole different fish.. active and excited and foraging all over the tank. I think they were really impairing her in ways that were hard to see.

I short, I would avoid pompoms, I feel like the mutation shouldn't be encouraged and it's irresponsible at best :/


(I use a sponge filter + canister on my 75 gallon)

Ah! It didn’t strike me that they would cause issues like that because I was thinking along the lines of like an oranda’s wen.
Now that I think about it: if the poms are growths of nasal tissue, and it’s anything like the lining of a human’s nose, wouldn’t they be very sensitive?

Goldfish seem to not show it much when they are in pain. My ryukin had sepsis for nearly a year, and the most he did was bottom sit a bit. The pompoms I’ve seen didn’t seem to be too bothered by the growths, but their nasal membranes are sticking out...

A lot of goldfish breeds have significant problems from their characteristics. Dogs are like that too.

 

Soooo I'm just gonna interject, I got a pompon by accident from a pet store (it was too young to have them yet and was mislabeled). The pompoms actually give her a *lot* of trouble, they are clearly uncomfortable, and got stuck in her mouth so much she wasn't able to properly eat. I did surgery to trim them, which helped... but it didn't take long for the issues to return. Finally I bit the bullet and cut them off ENTIRELY (which was incredibly intimidating). Her nasal openings are permanently gaping wide from the strain of the pompoms pulling on them....

After I cut off the growths she was like a whole different fish.. active and excited and foraging all over the tank. I think they were really impairing her in ways that were hard to see.

I short, I would avoid pompoms, I feel like the mutation shouldn't be encouraged and it's irresponsible at best :/


(I use a sponge filter + canister on my 75 gallon)

Ah! It didn’t strike me that they would cause issues like that because I was thinking along the lines of like an oranda’s wen.
Now that I think about it: if the poms are growths of nasal tissue, and it’s anything like the lining of a human’s nose, wouldn’t they be very sensitive?

Goldfish seem to not show it much when they are in pain. My ryukin had sepsis for nearly a year, and the most he did was bottom sit a bit. The pompoms I’ve seen didn’t seem to be too bothered by the growths, but their nasal membranes are sticking out...

A lot of goldfish breeds have significant problems from their characteristics. Dogs are like that too.

Keeping this in mind, in place of the pompom I'll get a black moor instead, so my tank will be comprised of: a pearlscale, ranchu, red cap oranda, ryukin, black moor and rubber lip pleco. Just to be sure this won't be problematic right? Oh, and I was planning on including no decor and just sand at the bottom of the tank, should I include any decor for the pleco?

 

I think that's be fine except I have some suggestion, nothing drastic though. I wouldn't do the pleco, they like to suck on goldfish and have been recorded attacking them. Also, butterfly telescopes are just like black moores except they have a differently shaped tail (prettier IMO, shaped like a butterfly <3), they can have a little it of a Ryukin like hump, but aren't aggressive and have impaired vision, and delicate, long fins. They would do AWESOME with your setup, they are gentle and also I'm biased they are my favorite...
Yes use sand, it's easy to clean and lovely. My favorite brand is Caribsea super naturals. Live plants add a natural touch, while filtering and oxygenating the water.

 

I think that's be fine except I have some suggestion, nothing drastic though. I wouldn't do the pleco, they like to suck on goldfish and have been recorded attacking them. Also, butterfly telescopes are just like black moores except they have a differently shaped tail (prettier IMO, shaped like a butterfly <3), they can have a little it of a Ryukin like hump, but aren't aggressive and have impaired vision, and delicate, long fins. They would do AWESOME with your setup, they are gentle and also I'm biased they are my favorite...
Yes use sand, it's easy to clean and lovely. My favorite brand is Caribsea super naturals. Live plants add a natural touch, while filtering and oxygenating the water.

I do know about plecos sucking the slime coat off other fish, but I have read that rubber lip plecos do not share this behavior. Would you still recommend against it?

 

I do know about plecos sucking the slime coat off other fish, but I have read that rubber lip plecos do not share this behavior. Would you still recommend against it?

Rubber lips aren’t known for doing that, but it may be unable to resist taking advantage of the less nimble fish, like the ranchu or pearlscale if they bottom sit a lot.

If you see any big red sores on your fish, you’ll probably want to rehome the pleco.

Edit: Oh! You could give them something else to suck on, like cucumber on a clip.

 

I just wouldn't risk it. Goldfish usually do best with other goldfish of similar body shape and temperament. You can use snails if you are looking for a algae cleaner, but quarantine the snails for a month by themselves first so they won't transmit any diseases.