Roy's 30 Gallon Red Spot Green Discus F1

Hi All,

Last weekend I tore down my 30 gallon to make room for a new species (for me). The this will be the first time I have kept the species and from doing some reading, research, and talking with the breeder I am doing a set-up I have not done before.

2020/07/19
Here is my old (15+ years) 30 gallon tank (36"X12.5"X16.75" high). Note the scratches on the glass showing years of use! Thank goodness most of those scratches disappear when water is added.



After cleaning the heater and canister filter I added four (4) Osmocote Plus "00" root tabs. Based upon my experience with the 45 gallon which showed residual ammonia for about 2 months when I used one root tab per 2 gallons I decided to go stingy this time. There will be some species of plants in this tank but the fish will be the primary consideration.



I covered the four tabs with a handful of sand substrate to keep them from shifting and added the rest of the sand substrate.



This is the first time I have used sand as a substrate in a tank and I went with HTH Pool Filter sand which is made from crushed quartz, contains no shells to effect water hardness, and is definitely white! I am not a fan of white substrates because they can show all the detritus and other stuff but I want to keep this tank clean and pristine as possible.



I put in a total of 50# of sand which is one bag. It cost me $9 including tax. This gave me sufficient for 2-1/2 inches in the back of the tank sloping to 1.5 inches in the front of the tank; an average depth of 2 inches. I did not wash or rinse the sand first, it went straight from the bag into the tank.




2020/07/20
Next come the filling. I could have done the three (3) gallon bucket and made eight or nine trips up and down the stairs but I chose to use my weekly water change hose instead. I put down wax paper and a dinner plate to minimize disturbing the substrate during filling and added the water slowly.












This is how it looked when filled before turning on the filter.



I set the heater for 83 degrees and took some tap water readings for a benchmark, then called it a day.

Tap Water
pH = 7.0 (degassed 24 hrs)
dKH = 2.0
dGH = 3.0
Ca = 20 ppm
Mg = 0.9 ppm
NH3 = 0.00
NO2 = 0.00
NO3 = 0.00

And here is the equipment list:
Aqueon 30 gallon aquarium
Aqueon glass top
Fluval 2.0 LED fixture (36"-48")
Marineland C-220 canister filter (two sponges; filter floss; bio-balls X2 trays; Purigen)
50# HTH Pool Filter Sand (crushed quartz) 2-1/2” back / 1-1/2” front
Osmocote Plus root tabs ( 4 each “00” size)
Inline CO2 diffuser
Fluval CO2 drop checker with 4.0 dKH indicator solution

 

Hi All,

Last weekend I tore down my 30 gallon to make room for a new species (for me). The this will be the first time I have kept the species and from doing some reading, research, and talking with the breeder I am doing a set-up I have not done before.


I set the heater for 83 degrees and took some tap water readings for a benchmark, then called it a day.

Tap Water
pH = 7.0 (degassed 24 hrs)
dKH = 2.0
dGH = 3.0
Ca = 20 ppm
Mg = 0.9 ppm
NH3 = 0.00
NO2 = 0.00
NO3 = 0.00

And here is the equipment list:
Aqueon 30 gallon aquarium
Aqueon glass top
Fluval 2.0 LED fixture (36"-48")
Marineland C-220 canister filter (two sponges; filter floss; bio-balls X2 trays; Purigen)
50# HTH Pool Filter Sand (crushed quartz) 2-1/2” back / 1-1/2” front
Osmocote Plus root tabs ( 4 each “00” size)
Inline CO2 diffuser
Fluval CO2 drop checker with 4.0 dKH indicator solution

Watching!

 

Watching also!!

 

Thank you Troyee219 and Mhamilton0911

Hi All,

2020/07/20
The tank is currently at 85 degrees and the water had started to clear. The drop checker is medium green and with 4.0 dKH indicator solution that means I should have about 30 ppm of CO2.

I decided to add a few plants that came out of the previous 30 gallon set-up. I added two pieces of Malaysian driftwood to the tank. One piece had an established thicket of Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov' and the other had a not fully established thicket of Microsorum pteropus 'Trident'. I also added 17 plants of Eriocaulon sp. 'Vietnam' to the center area. How are these plants going to do in 85 degree temperatures? I guess we will find out!

30 gallon 24 hours after filling

 

Hi All,

2020/07/24
So with a temperature of 85 degrees this is definitely a warm water tank. Did you ever wonder what species would do well at a temperature in the mid-80's? How about with high temperatures and very, very lean dosing of nutrients? I did so I grabbed a bunch of plants from my emersed plant bank and one species from another tank and planted them along the back of the 30 gallon. This is what they looked like when I planted them.



All of the plants are cuttings without roots, so what did I plant?

1) Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum' (from stems growing submerged in another tank)
2) Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana' (cuttings from emersed growth in plant bank)
3) Hygrophila serpyllum (cuttings from emersed growth in plant bank)
4) Oldenlandia salzmannii (cuttings from emersed growth in plant bank)
5) Limnophila rugosa (cuttings from emersed growth in plant bank)
6) Ludwigia sp 'Red' (cuttings from emersed growth in plant bank)

I am curious to see what species can adapt to the 85 degree temperature and which ones will not. The light level measured at the substrate (through an Aqueon Versatop) is PAR@50 measured with an Apogee MQ-510 PAR Meter.

Here is one of the shelves of my 'plant bank', just a bunch of species I grow emersed because I don't have enough tanks to grow them submerged. Many are 'uncommon' (i.e. not common in a LFS) and not always available on the forums.

 

Watching!! I’ve had luck with plants at 85+. I’m very interested in the fish. Allways looking for warm water fish

 

Go with rams Roy !

 

Go with rams Roy !

Yea rams would be perfect for a 30g at 85F, Some rams and a big school of High Temp tolerant tetras would look great!

 

Hi coralbandit and Troyee219 ,

Rams are certainly a possibility, I have been eyeing some "Dean's Midnight Rams" but it would be a shame to get them and not dedicate space for breeding and rearing the fry.

"Dean's Midnight Rams"

 

Hey, coralbandit has a strain of rams that look extremely similar- if not the same, as Deans black rams!

Since you live in seattle (if you got rams) you get to pick up rams from dean himself?

 

Hi FinalFins,

I believe that Aquarium Co-op has an exclusive distribution agreement with Dean for the Midnight Rams and to my knowledge they do not ship fish - just dry goods and plants.

Hi All,

2020-07-25
When I started the tank I seeded the Marineland C-220 filter with some detritus from one of my HOB filters on another tank to kick-start the nitrogen cycle. Today I added a couple more plant species and three (3) fish to ensure the nitrogen cycle starts and maintains well. I added an Otocinclus, a Siamese Algae Eater (aka SAE / Crossocheilus oblongus), and a 'runt of the litter' Corydoras aeneus. The Otocinclus will eat any diatoms which seems to be fairly common with out soft water. The SAE will eat any hair algae that seems to show up in my tanks during the ammonia portion of the nitrogen cycle, and the Corydoras will stir up any detritus so the canister filter can remove it. If they get hungry I'll add 1/4 of an algae wafer just before lights out.

SAE and Corydoras



I checked the PAR level today, with the water clearing even more the light intensity is PAR@48. I am running the Fluval 3.0 on a split photoperiod of 09:00 - 11:00 and 19:00 - 21:30 for a total of 4 -1/2 hours of light per day.

I also added a Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko' from the previous 30 gallon set-up and some Bacopa colorata from my emersed plant bank.



Hi All,

2020-07-30
Well it has been a week since the last update. The fish are doing fine as are the plants. The tanks is clear and the PAR level increased to PAR@50 now that the cloudiness is gone. I did a 33% water change this week, dosed 4.5 ml of Seachem Comprehensive twice and glutaradehyde (Excel strength) Initial Dose (4 tsp) once. The water parameters after the water change were:
pH = 7.6
dKH = 2.0
dGH = 2.0
Ca = 15 ppm
Mg = 0 ppm
NH3 = 0.25 ppm
NO2 = 0.0 ppm
NO3 = 0.0 - 5.0 ppm

I don't know why my pH climbed this week, my CO2 is actually higher (about 40 ppm) is it possible the HTH sand is not totally inert? I added 2.0 ml of Muriatic Acid to the tank and that dropped the pH to 6.4 after 24 hours. I will monitor the pH for the next couple of weeks and see if it creeps back up. The fish didn't show any signs of distress.

It looks like the species fish will be arriving soon. In the meantime the plants seem to have settled in fine. The Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum' has a couple of new leaves showing good color. The Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana' seems to be a slow grower but there is one new leaf and it seems to be larger than the emersed grown leaves. I added some Eleocharis sp (possibly robbinsii?) to the tank that was growing submerged in my 75 gallon and I trimmed down. The other emersed grown stems I added a week or so ago are also showing new growth and looking healthy. The Ludwigia sp. 'Red' isn't showing any red coloration but with PAR@50 it may not show color until it gets very near the surface (if at all).

 

Ok has the fish your waiting for been mentioned yet? Or is this the surprise? Kinda hoping for a surprise!!

 

Hi 86 ssinit ,

No, I haven't mentioned what the species is going to be yet however I'm hoping to receive them tomorrow!

 

Hi 86 ssinit ,

No, I haven't mentioned what the species is going to be yet however I'm hoping to receive them tomorrow!

I will be waiting in anticipation, the plants are looking great! I have a El nino fern and a few java ferns that i somehow managed to keep alive and to my surprise have a bunch of new sprouts!

 

Hi All,

2020-08-03
I know it is not time for my weekly update on how the tank is progressing however the species arrived yesterday afternoon with a few friends. I drip acclimated them for about an hour, waited an additional 1/2 hour, and the introduced them into the tank. They even brought some friends with them that they grew up with, three (3) Corydoras sterbai. For the first couple of hours they huddled together in a corner and then they started to explore the tank. I lightly fed them some frozen bloodworms about an hour before 'lights out' and they all seemed to eat.

Today they are much more active and bravely exploring the tank so I grabbed this picture. I know that the 30 gallon is just temporary for these seven fish and in the future they will become the inhabitants of my 75 gallon. -Roy

 

Hi All,

2020-08-03
I know it is not time for my weekly update on how the tank is progressing however the species arrived yesterday afternoon with a few friends. I drip acclimated them for about an hour, waited an additional 1/2 hour, and the introduced them into the tank. They even brought some friends with them that they grew up with, three (3) Corydoras sterbai. For the first couple of hours they huddled together in a corner and then they started to explore the tank. I lightly fed them some frozen bloodworms about an hour before 'lights out' and they all seemed to eat.

Today they are much more active and bravely exploring the tank so I grabbed this picture. I know that the 30 gallon is just temporary for these seven fish and in the future they will become the inhabitants of my 75 gallon. -Roy

They look great in there! even if its temporary lol

 

Welcome to the show!! They are great fish! Good luck with them! Didn’t see this coming! What type are they? What will you be feeding? I recommend freeze dried blackworms.
My new guys next home
they’re in a bb 45 now.

 

Welcome to the show!! They are great fish! Good luck with them! Didn’t see this coming! What type are they? What will you be feeding? I recommend freeze dried blackworms.

Hi 86 ssinit ,

They are Symphysodon aequifasciatus - Red Spot Green Discus F1 from Rio Nanay in Peru. I'm not sure if I got fish or pigs.....these guys go through frozen bloodworms and FD tubifex worms like it is candy!

 

Hi All,

2020-08-03
Here they are eating their third (3rd) cube of FB Tubifex Worms!

 

Dang, where did you get those? Tefe discus are on my bucket list. Very cool fish, and look stunning as adults!

 

Discus look great. Tubifex worms and blood worms aren’t the best foods. Look into the fdbw. Good luck with them . This is going to be a fun thread .

 

Hi All,

Well the discus have settled in for a week now and so far no surprises or issues. My only concern is that these guys may eat me out of house and home!

 

Hi All,

2020-07-30
Well it has been a week since the last update. The fish are doing fine as are the plants. The tanks is clear and the PAR level increased to PAR@50 now that the cloudiness is gone. I did a 33% water change this week, dosed 4.5 ml of Seachem Comprehensive twice and glutaradehyde (Excel strength) Initial Dose (4 tsp) once. The water parameters after the water change were:
pH = 7.6
dKH = 2.0
dGH = 2.0
Ca = 15 ppm
Mg = 0 ppm
NH3 = 0.25 ppm
NO2 = 0.0 ppm
NO3 = 0.0 - 5.0 ppm

I don't know why my pH climbed this week, my CO2 is actually higher (about 40 ppm) is it possible the HTH sand is not totally inert? I added 2.0 ml of Muriatic Acid to the tank and that dropped the pH to 6.4 after 24 hours. I will monitor the pH for the next couple of weeks and see if it creeps back up. The fish didn't show any signs of distress.

It looks like the species fish will be arriving soon. In the meantime the plants seem to have settled in fine. The Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum' has a couple of new leaves showing good color. The Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana' seems to be a slow grower but there is one new leaf and it seems to be larger than the emersed grown leaves. I added some Eleocharis sp (possibly robbinsii?) to the tank that was growing submerged in my 75 gallon and I trimmed down. The other emersed grown stems I added a week or so ago are also showing new growth and looking healthy. The Ludwigia sp. 'Red' isn't showing any red coloration but with PAR@50 it may not show color until it gets very near the surface (if at all).

You could slowly raise your KH up a little to avoid PH swings. The plants and fish would do fine with up to 6 dKH and dGH.

You could slowly raise your KH up a little to avoid PH swings. The plants and fish would do fine with up to 6 dKH and dGH.

Since I've started keeping my KH and GH at 6, I've never had any problem with PH swings and its still considered pretty soft water which is good for the plants. My water out of the tap with added minerals and Alkaline buffer is 7.6 and it stays there despite the rock/mopani wood/catappa leaves that I have in my tanks.

 

Hi kimsch1005,

Thank you for the suggestion but I haven't had any problems with fluctuating pH levels at this point. I am an avid plant grower but first and foremost are proper conditions for the fish. That I why I am experimenting with various plant species to see which ones will thrive in the conditions that are best for the discus.

 

Roy I’ve got a list of 19 I’ve got growing in my 125. But with discus plants come second. Those discus will need large water changes daily and many feeding. As your seeing they eat a lot. The water changes are for of course clean water but also to remove the hormones they are adding to the water. Next it looks like you have 7 in a 30. You will need a 75 when they get to about 4”. Mine are now in a 45. I got mine in June and they are about 4” now. I got them at 2”.
In a smaller tank hormones as they get bigger may cause problems.

 

Hi 86 ssinit ,

I agree. My 75 gallon is currently home for my school of Melanotaenia praecox 'Pagai' (Gary Lange strain) of Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish. They will likely get moved to another tank and the discus will move into the 75 gallon.

 

Hi All,

Here is what has been happening in the tank since I added the discus.

This last week I increased the PAR from PAR@20 to PAR@40 on Tuesday and then on Saturday I increased it from PAR@40 to PAR@70 (all measured at the substrate level).
I did a 50% water change yesterday making sure to match within 5 degrees the new water with the tank water. I added 3/8 tsp CaSO4 (3 ppm Ca / 0.4 dGH); 3/16 tsp MgSO4 (1.04 ppm Mg / 0.25 dGH); 3/16 tsp K2SO4 (7.5 ppm K)

The water parameters today are:
pH = 7,2
dKH = 2.0
dGH = 4.0
NH3 = 0.25 ppm
NO2 = 0.25 ppm
NO3 = 10 ppm

The ammonia level remains stable and I attribute the not before seen levels of nitrite and nitrates to the addition of the discus and the large amounts of food they consume. I will likely do a second water change on Friday and check the water parameters again.

Here is an overall view of the 30 gallon



The Trident Java Fern (Microsporum pteropus 'Trident') is doing well and looking good. The Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Green Gecko' has put out more leaves in the last couple of weeks than it did in the previous 3 months, I think the substrate feeding is having a positive effect.



Here is an overall view of the center of the tank. The Eriocaulon sp 'Vietnam' is growing although slowly with no signs of algae on the leaves. In fact, I haven't seen any algae whatsoever on the glass or plants since they were planted.



Here is a shot of some of the plants I am experimenting with along the back glass. These all come from my emersed plant bank and were planted July 30th so they have been in place about 11 days. This picture shows the Myriophyllum 'Mini' and the Bacopa colorata. Note the top leaves are noticeably larger on the 'Mini' compared with the lower leaves that were grown emersed. The same is true of the B. colorata but it is difficult to see in the picture. Also notice the top leaves are starting to show some pinkish coloration.



The Limnophila rugosa has put out several new leaves and is starting to look 'bushy'. The Ludwigia sp 'Red' has gone crazy (arrow) it must have 10 new nodes and the new submerged leaves are 5X the size of the emersed leaves. The leaves are green likely due to the low PAR level I have been using but the stems are growing toward the top and with the higher PAR I would expect to start seeing some normal color.

 

What have you been dosing for ferts?

 

Tank looks good! I remember seeing you from another forum. I like 30 longs. They aren't very common.

 

Roy tank looks great. But I think your waiting to long for water changes. The rise in ammonia and nitrite is from adding the discus and in a 30g they will continue to rise without water changes. That size tank most would do daily 15g changes and they are all bare bottom tanks.
I have no idea what your adding in the 3rd paragraph. Is that ferts or chemicals to lower the ph?
How are the discus reacting to the new lighting? Does it come on slowly and go off slowly?

 

What have you been dosing for ferts?

Hi kimsch1005

I have only added four (4) Osmocote Plus root tabs at the bottom under all the sand when I first set up the tank.
-Roy

Tank looks good! I remember seeing you from Plantedtank.net. I like 30 longs. They aren't very common.

Hi @Grey18,

Yes, they are not as common these days in LFS although Aqueon still makes them. They are basically a 20H with 12 inches added to the ends!

Roy tank looks great. But I think your waiting to long for water changes. The rise in ammonia and nitrite is from adding the discus and in a 30g they will continue to rise without water changes. That size tank most would do daily 15g changes and they are all bare bottom tanks.
I have no idea what your adding in the 3rd paragraph. Is that ferts or chemicals to lower the ph?
How are the discus reacting to the new lighting? Does it come on slowly and go off slowly?

Hi 86 ssinit

I agree, that is why I mentioned that I will be doing two water changes this week and monitor the results. I am not adding any nutrients to the tank nor have I added any additional muriatic acid to lower the pH. The changes shown in paragraph #3of my post are solely due to the addition of the discus and the water change I did on Monday.

The light on the tank is a Fluval 2.0 so 'ramping up' the light is not an option. I do turn on the room light 30 minutes prior to the tank light coming on and so far the discus do not seem disturbed when the tank light starts.

-Roy

 

The fish look great Roy!

 

Hi @Grey18,

Yes, they are not as common these days in LFS although Aqueon still makes them. They are basically a 20H with 12 inches added to the ends!

Yes Marineland makes them as well. Pardon me also for asking, if I skipped over it somewhere, but is this a temporary home for the Discus? I was just thinking that a 30 gallon tank is probably a bit small for Discus. I don't know much about them, but thought they required a much bigger tank is all.

 

Hi gray18 ,

You are correct, a 30 gallon is insufficient for seven (7) discus however these are juvies about 1-1/2 to 2" in length. I have a 75 gallon that currently has a school of M. praecox 'Pagai' in it. The 'Pagai' will get moved moved and the 75 will be the home for the discus when they get larger. When raising fry it is important not to have too large a tank where they cannot readily find the food that is fed and at the same time insure there is sufficient space grow healthy growth and good water quality.

 

Ahh! Gotcha. That makes much more sense. How do you like the 30 long footprint by the way? It's one tank I was thinking of purchasing at some point possibly.

 

Hi gray18

The 30 gallon is a good all-around tank. It has a good height / length ratio and provides schooling fish some distance to swim. Since it is 36" most LED fixtures light from end to end unlike 29 gallon (30") fixtures with many times only have LED coverage for 24" and dark at the ends. I have a 45 gallon tall (also 36") on the stand above the 30 gallon and it is a good tank for 'tall fish' like angels however more challenging to grow substrate plants due to the 24" height.

45 gallon tall (36"X13"X24"h) (Fluval 3.0 LED / Safe-t-sorb calcined clay substrate)

 

Hi All,

Time for another weekly installment!

2020/08/13

Today I did a 6 gallon water change on the tank.

2020/08/16

I took ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings again today, they were:
NH3 = 0.25 ppm
NO2 = 0.00 ppm
NO3 = 10 - 20 ppm

2020/08/17

Today is water change day. I changed 50% of the water in the tank (approximately 12 gallons) and did a light vacuum of the substrate in the front to remove detritus and the top layer of sand was looking a little dingy. I added 3/8 tsp of CaSO4 for 3 ppm of calcium, 3/16 tsp of MgSO4 for 1.0 ppm of Mg, and 3/16 tsp of K2SO4 for 7.5 ppm of potassium. I also added 15 ml of Excel/glutaraldehyde for carbon molecules. The fish all ate well about an hour afterwards on San Francisco Bay Brand freeze dried tubifex worms (FDTW). I took some pictures of the tank as well, here they are:

The full view



The C. wendtii 'Green Gecko' added another leaf this week. The 'Trident' is doing well



The Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum' is not doing well, the leaves are small and not well formed and the growth has slowed. On the other hand the Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana' continues to grow well with about 4 nodes (1") of new leaves.



Another shot of the Red Spot Green Discus (RSGD), they are almost always schooling



Not much noteworthy on the rest of the plants other than the three small sprigs of Ludwigia arcuata are showing new submerged growth and the Limnophila rugosa is branching at the bottom.



Lastly, the Ludwigia sp. 'Red' continues to grow quickly, however PAR@75 at the substrate and PAR@120 at the tip of the tall stem is not yet creating red coloration, however the stem is starting to branch.

 

Roy
Thanks so much for sharing this beautiful build-out. I’m learning lots and it’s definitely eye candy, too.

 

Hi Dsluder

Thank you for the kind words! My first time keeping discus at home so I am doing a lot of research as I go. -Roy

 

Hi All,

2020-07-30
Well it has been a week since the last update. The fish are doing fine as are the plants. The tanks is clear and the PAR level increased to PAR@50 now that the cloudiness is gone. I did a 33% water change this week, dosed 4.5 ml of Seachem Comprehensive twice and glutaradehyde (Excel strength) Initial Dose (4 tsp) once. The water parameters after the water change were:
pH = 7.6
dKH = 2.0
dGH = 2.0
Ca = 15 ppm
Mg = 0 ppm
NH3 = 0.25 ppm
NO2 = 0.0 ppm
NO3 = 0.0 - 5.0 ppm

I don't know why my pH climbed this week, my CO2 is actually higher (about 40 ppm) is it possible the HTH sand is not totally inert? I added 2.0 ml of Muriatic Acid to the tank and that dropped the pH to 6.4 after 24 hours. I will monitor the pH for the next couple of weeks and see if it creeps back up. The fish didn't show any signs of distress.

It looks like the species fish will be arriving soon. In the meantime the plants seem to have settled in fine. The Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum' has a couple of new leaves showing good color. The Myriophyllum sp. 'Guyana' seems to be a slow grower but there is one new leaf and it seems to be larger than the emersed grown leaves. I added some Eleocharis sp (possibly robbinsii?) to the tank that was growing submerged in my 75 gallon and I trimmed down. The other emersed grown stems I added a week or so ago are also showing new growth and looking healthy. The Ludwigia sp. 'Red' isn't showing any red coloration but with PAR@50 it may not show color until it gets very near the surface (if at all).