Retry Instant Cycle - 20 long

This ^^ is good advice.

Momgoose56 says; ammonia + patience = cycled tank.

Perhaps mattgirl says; ammonia + patience + consistency = cycled tank faster....

I'm not sure I would say faster but I would have to say more dependably. Give the bacteria a chance to grow a strong colony and it will serve you well from now on.

When I talk about cycling my tank I just talk about the cycle I grew 4 years ago. I have been in this hobby for many more years than the 4 years I talk about. My big tank set empty for 6 years and I had no small tanks running so had to start over from scratch. This time I had a full testing kit so I could tell exactly what was happening at any given time.

Way back when, the only thing I tested for was ammonia and PH. The very first tank I cycled was a 10 gallon. The only instructions I had was a 3 page leaflet. This was well before the internet. The main thing really stressed in that leaflet was the importance of water changes. I didn't attempt to instant cycle another tank with media from that tank for at least a year after it was cycled. Even way back then I understood one could instantly cycle another tank by using media from a well established tank so once I had a strong cycle in the original 10 gallon tank I just kept running extra media and sharing it with more tanks.

I didn't have to go through the long drawn out cycling process again until my tanks sat dry for 6 years. When I first got my 55 gallon tank I transferred everything from 2 10 gallon tanks to the 55 and instantly cycled it.

All of this to say, Once your bacterial colony is well established you can instantly cycle more tanks but the bacteria has to be strong first. The media has to come from a well established tank with a higher bio-load than the tank you are instantly cycling or you will experience at least a mini-cycle as the bacteria catches up with the higher bio-load.

 

This ^^ is good advice.

Momgoose56 says; ammonia + patience = cycled tank.

Perhaps mattgirl says; ammonia + patience + consistency = cycled tank faster....

Agree BUT, adding biological bacteria from an established tank or additional biological media is always a good idea in a cycling tank!

 

Agree BUT, adding biological bacteria from an established tank or additional biological media is always a good idea in a cycling tank!

I think my mistake may have been that when I added additional biologic media, I removed other media to make room for it. I thought the new media was stronger, but I may have been mistaken. I probably should have left the HOB filter media alone and leaned the new media up against the sponge filter.

If my 20 gallon with seed material does not get it in gear. My 10 gallon seedless cycle experiment may be done first.

 

I think my mistake may have been that when I added additional biologic media, I removed other media to make room for it. I thought the new media was stronger, but I may have been mistaken. I probably should have left the HOB filter media alone and leaned the new media up against the sponge filter.

If my 20 gallon with seed material does not get it in gear. My 10 gallon seedless cycle experiment may be done first.

That might be the case. The media you removed may have already had a good colony of bacteria on it. It's all in the math when cycling-always add, never subtract lol! Keep us posted.

 

The HOB on this tank is noisy. I contacted Aqueon customer service and they sent me a new filter (BTW kudos to Aqueon for taking good care of me!). So I am now trying to decide how best to put the new filter on this aquarium to disrupt the cycle to the least degree possible:

1. Pull the motor off the new filter and put it on the new filter. I think the motor and impeller housing is the source of the noise so I think doing that will solve my problem. This way I keep all the media and most of the plumbing intact. But I run the risk of ending up with something that is not as quiet as the new one.

2. Use the new filter entirely and put the media from the old filter into the new filter. This way I have more confidence that my new filter will be quiet. If I set the cycle back a little, probably not much and better to be set back a little than to have any unnecessary noise.

I am leaning toward option #2 and just live with any cycle set back.

 

I think 2 will work better.

 

The HOB on this tank is noisy. I contacted Aqueon customer service and they sent me a new filter (BTW kudos to Aqueon for taking good care of me!). So I am now trying to decide how best to put the new filter on this aquarium to disrupt the cycle to the least degree possible:

1. Pull the motor off the new filter and put it on the new filter. I think the motor and impeller housing is the source of the noise so I think doing that will solve my problem. This way I keep all the media and most of the plumbing intact. But I run the risk of ending up with something that is not as quiet as the new one.

2. Use the new filter entirely and put the media from the old filter into the new filter. This way I have more confidence that my new filter will be quiet. If I set the cycle back a little, probably not much and better to be set back a little than to have any unnecessary noise.

I am leaning toward option #2 and just live with any cycle set back.

99% of your bio bacteria is in the porous filter media. There should be no setback. New filter, old media. If it's an identical filter, I'd also move the old intake tube (and try the impeller) to the new filter. That will transfer a tiny bit more bacteria over.

 

99% of your bio bacteria is in the porous filter media. There should be no setback. New filter, old media. If it's an identical filter, move the old intake tube (and try the impeller) to the new filter. That will transfer a tiny bit more bacteria over.

My thoughts exactly

 

I am down to zero nitrites. If I can process 1 ppm per day for three days, I am calling myself cycled enough for 10 male guppies.

 

I would go at least 2ppm in 24 hours for 10 males.

 

I am down to zero nitrites. If I can process 1 ppm per day for three days, I am calling myself cycled enough for 10 male guppies.

Is this your 20 or the 10? If it's the 20 you should be more than set at 1 ppm, there's no way those little guys will make that much ammonia diluted in 20 gallons daily. If it's the 10, I think you're probably close.

You're still talking about the various feeders with possible endler makes mixed/bred in less than 3/4 inch each right? If so I would go for it in a couple days. You could test a little overhead and do 1.5 tonight's dose and see if the bacteria grow to absorb it or leave the difference by the same time tomorrow, you know for science and whatnot before you put them in there. But I think you're probably set. Just make sure to check the water 24, and 48 hours after, then before your weekly water change. You could always do a couple short changes if it minI cycles in a day or two.

I'm going to be so bummed if we bring this thread to a close soon it's the most fish nerdy thread getting bumped on the regular right now and it's actually something I'm good at and have allot of knowledge on lol. I'm cleaning my un-cracked 10 today, ordering a couple of the eBay sponges mattgirl mentioned and some more of my rings. I'm going to seed the new qt tank with a pile of rocks from my breeding tank placed in the middle between the flow of the sponge and a aqueon 10 HOB (got it with a junk tank) full of new ceramics and start dosing 2ppm daily. As soon as the tank shows any nitrates, I will scrub the new 10, remove the rocks and put the sponge in my junk 10 (cracked). Split the dirty water and dose them both identically regardless of test numbers; the first to make 5ppm nitrate wins. Should be the slowest drag race on the internet, I'm hoping it seeds and clears by Christmas though, I'd like to get my wife the shell dwellers she's been wanting since I started building the 29 nano sump and she saw Joey's office tank all in one on YouTube. I'll be using the hob in my qt permanently and I'm not real happy with the flow in my networked 20 long so it gets the sponge, doesn't matter if the sponge is seeded but since that tank won't be in real service until the shellies clear qt I have the time for science . It may be appropriate to give the drag race it's own new thread but I'll make sure to tag you guys and link to this one so people understand the theory, and why I'm so curious lol.

 

This is the twenty. I have a separate thread for the 10. I have been doing 0.5 ppm every 12 hours. If I get zero nitrites by tomorrow morning, I will try 0.75 ppm every 12 hours (for science ).

Yes these are the small Endlerish feeder guppies. The males are most 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. So yes, it will be a very small bio load.

I am considering trying a Betta in there with them. My Betta is in a 10 gallon all to himself. I am thinking that if my Betta can peacefully co-exist with the male guppies then I will be able to use his 10 gallon for further sorting of the guppy project.

Thinking I have a shot at getting the Betta to live with the male guppies if I put the guppies in first.

 

I am considering trying a Betta

I tried a betta with my guys in the 20 long networked betta didn't seem to care but the EGMs sure did dance for it allot. Poor confused little guys. The current was to strong in there, so I moved them all to the networked 10, 5 EGMs, including the chillI and the sunset. Still no reaction from the betta but alas the current was still too much. I turned the 10 down to ~3x per hour but the big Delta tail just didn't do well in a river style (drip bars on one end, weir on the other end) flow configuration so we pulled him back out. I would bet in a 20 you should be fine, he might need one of those floating log things to rest in, I've heard they don't do deep very well since they tend to surface and breathe, though haven't tried one in anything deeper than a 20 long. I think standard 20s are 4 or 6 inches deeper.

 

Fair warning- guppies are the fish that push other fish off the edge, so err on the side of caution.

 

I tried a betta with my guys in the 20 long networked betta didn't seem to care but the EGMs sure did dance for it allot. Poor confused little guys. The current was to strong in there, so I moved them all to the networked 10, 5 EGMs, including the chillI and the sunset. Still no reaction from the betta but alas the current was still too much. I turned the 10 down to ~3x per hour but the big Delta tail just didn't do well in a river style (drip bars on one end, weir on the other end) flow configuration so we pulled him back out. I would bet in a 20 you should be fine, he might need one of those floating log things to rest in, I've heard they don't do deep very well since they tend to surface and breathe, though haven't tried one in anything deeper than a 20 long. I think standard 20s are 4 or 6 inches deeper.

Is your filter positioned in the center of the tank? I found, even in a 10 gallon tank, if the HOB was placed at one end of the tank and some floating plants were added, it cut down on the surface current at the other end significantly. Just a suggestion if your filter is at center tank.

 

Is your filter positioned in the center of the tank? I found, even in a 10 gallon tank, if the HOB was placed at one end of the tank and some floating plants were added, it cut down on the surface current at the other end significantly. Just a suggestion if your filter is at center tank.

The tanks I was talking about are networked on a sump in lazy river configuration. I've been using common community fish to stress test it but it's long term goal is dwarf cichlids and shellies, putting the betta in there in my case was just a test if his temperment for a future build. OP is using a HOB and a sponge, I suspect if he puts the betta in there he would also have a decent chance at a good temperment as we believe we are working with similar stock (breeding guppy mutts, in my case specifically crossbred with endler, bad drops from a hybrid breeder sold as mixed feeder/dollar fish)

I agree with your thoughts on an offset hob or offset sponge, or even sump/canister working if intake and exhaust are in the same side of the tank though, just not how mine is set up .

 

Nitrites are back this morning. Wondering if changing media to new filter slowed it up a little. Hopefully back on track soon. Planning to continue 0.5 ppm twice a day until that is processing. Then try 0.75 ppm twice a day. Then call it good enough to add 10 small male guppies. Let that go for a couple day. Then add Dave (my Betta).

 

Since my cycle took a step backwards, perhaps due to filter change, I did about a 60% water change and I only dosed 0.25 ppm ammonia last night. This morning I am back to zero nitrites. Did not test ammonia, but assume that is zero also. Dosed 0.5 ppm ammonia this morning and hoping for zero zero tonight. If I get zero zero, I will step up to 0.75, if not, I will stick with 0.5 ppm until that processes to zero in 12 hours.

Once I pass a few 0.75 to zero zero in 12 hours tests, I will call it done.

 

Since my cycle took a step backwards, perhaps due to filter change, I did about a 60% water change and I only dosed 0.25 ppm ammonia last night. This morning I am back to zero nitrites. Did not test ammonia, but assume that is zero also. Dosed 0.5 ppm ammonia this morning and hoping for zero zero tonight. If I get zero zero, I will step up to 0.75, if not, I will stick with 0.5 ppm until that processes to zero in 12 hours.

Once I pass a few 0.75 to zero zero in 12 hours tests, I will call it done.

What fish are you going to put in the tank when you're done?

 

What fish are you going to put in the tank when you're done?

My current plan is to start with about 10 small male guppies mostly 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Then add a small male Betta - body is about an inch and a half. The Betta may be pulled quickly if he does not get along with the guppies.

My female guppies will stay in the 40 gallon breeder and I will continue to remove the males as soon as I can identify them. Expecting a growing population. Slow growing at first. Faster growing in time. I will cull as the population reaches capacity in the tank. I may exceed capacity for a while. Hopefully I can keep tank healthy with water changes when capacity is exceeded.

Thinking that 0.75 ppm processing in 12 hours will be sufficient for initial stocking and will grow as bio load grows by adding fish and fish getting bigger.

 

My current plan is to start with about 10 small male guppies mostly 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. Then add a small male Betta - body is about an inch and a half. The Betta may be pulled quickly if he does not get along with the guppies.

My female guppies will stay in the 40 gallon breeder and I will continue to remove the males as soon as I can identify them. Expecting a growing population. Slow growing at first. Faster growing in time. I will cull as the population reaches capacity in the tank. I may exceed capacity for a while. Hopefully I can keep tank healthy with water changes when capacity is exceeded.

Thinking that 0.75 ppm processing in 12 hours will be sufficient for initial stocking and will grow as bio load grows by adding fish and fish getting bigger.

Oh, that's right. You have the guppy ranch lol! I think a tank full of male guppys looks really nice!

 

0.5 ppm ammonia processed to zero zero over the last 12 hours. Bumping it to 0.75 ppm this morning. Will be interesting to see if that will process to zero zero over the next 12 hours.

I had planned to repeat a few 0.75 to zero in 12 hours before calling it done. But if it processes 0.75 to zero zero in the next 12 hours, I will be tempted to call it good enough for 10 small guppies.

It seems the risk is minimal if I monitor water parameters closely. Would just have to implement fish-in cycle protocols if cycle is not yet strong enough.

Anxious to get males separated from females to slow the fry train.

 

0.75 ppm processed to almost zero nitrites in 12 hours. Almost light blue. Just a hint of purple. Maybe just a slight blue grey. Less than 0.25 ppm.

Going to dose it with another 0.75 ppm ammonia. Hopefully clear zero by tomorrow morning.

 

0.75 ppm processed to almost zero nitrites in 12 hours. Almost light blue. Just a hint of purple. Maybe just a slight blue grey. Less than 0.25 ppm.

Going to dose it with another 0.75 ppm ammonia. Hopefully clear zero by tomorrow morning.

Wrong thread.

 

If all goes well, I hope to start transferring the male guppies tomorrow after big water change. Considering replacing water with water from 40 gallon. That way I have very similar water for the guppies. Then I could follow up with another water change later in the day or tomorrow. Probably pointless, but could not hurt.

 

Processed 0.75 ppm ammonia to zero zero ammonia and nitrites over the past 12 hours. Plus the little bit of nitrites that was still present 12 hours ago. I am calling that cycled. But since it has not passed the accepted cycle test, I will continue frequent water tests and be prepared to implement fish-in cycle protocols if I detect any ammonia or nitrites.

Nitrates are between 80 and 160 - call it 120. I did about a 60% water change. I am expecting that will reduce nitrates to about 50 or so. Going to let that settle for a while and then do another water change. I may do yet another water change after that. I would like to get the nitrates down around 5 or so.

Then I will start moving my male guppies over. I think my female guppies will thank me....

[EDIT] Checked Nitrates - came out about 10 to 20 (those colors look the same to me) I was expecting closer to 50 based on my earlier test. Maybe this test is off a bit or maybe my earlier test was off a bit. Anyway - gonna do another water change this afternoon before I start moving fish.

Tanks are similar temp (both 80 deg) similar ph (7.6) I will double check ph before I move them, but assuming ph is still similar I am thinking I will not bother with any acclimation protocol.

[EDIT 2] Called the nitrate test early has darkened up a bit. I now think it is between 20 and 40 - still not as high as I expected, but closer.

 

Have only gotten four small guppies in there so far. Little guys are hard to catch. Hoping I will have about 10 small male guppies and a Betta in there by the end of the week. Then expecting to add as I can sex juvies.

Wondering how Betta will do.

Wondering if I should wait until I get all 10 males in there before adding Betta.

Wondering how adding more from time to time will work. Thinking if I have a few in there he won't notice another one or two added.

 

Although not scientific enough to get it's drag racing thread as I totally didn't have the opportunity to use controls, I think ceramics can somehow populate faster than sponges. I expected the opposite. Here's how it went down:

I needed my QT 10 semI planted so I could condition a new plakat betta fish to swimming in mild current. He got a modified hob and a new bag of fluval spec ceramic rings.

I wanted to try an old round betta tank as a grow out since my wife and I had some conversations about what does and doesn't live in her Tupperware and other various kitchen containers. My cracked 10 gallon still needs the top couple inches cut off and I'm out of weather for letting large amounts of silicone dry. The round tank got a new minI double sponge filter.

The lack of control between ammonia sources is where this really fell short as the fry are constantly growing, and although the betta has a similar dietary load his water volume is significantly larger.

Both tanks got a similar annubias glued to a rock for easy removal when needed.

Anyhow, I squeezed a dirty pre filter into the round tank, then the HOB with the filters running. I put 3 old rings on top of each tiny sponge filter, and 6 old rings on top of the new bag of ceramics. After 5 days I pulled the seeded ceramics and put them back(boiled the ones from the qt). I just passed day 14 with both of these tanks up.

Both tanks were producing nitrate but showing Trace ammonia after day 1. By day 3 the baby sponge tank was .5 ammonia and got a 50%.
The 10 didn't need a water change until day 6.
The little sponge tank has had water changes every 3 days, up through last night, and has been producing Trace ammonia, and ~10 ppm nitrate daily, getting a total of about 20ppm nitrates and up to .5 ammonia by water change day.
The 10 had trace amonia, with a peak of about .25 3 days ago when I did they baby tanks WC. I expected to change both tanks last night. Last night the 10 tested 0-0-15.
The baby tank came in .5-0-10.

The QT is as cycled as it needs to be. The baby tank will continue to bother me every few days for the rest of the month I would figure.

I feel pretty good about working these two tanks fish in, my charts tell me I'm good to go up to about 1.25ppm ammonia before I hit yellow, at .5 I've never lost a fry. but I fear I won't have a chance to hold a true, fair sponge vs ceramics race until I clear the betta, and the network racks 3 month hold for qt. Then, I will open a race thread as I prepare to qt a bunch of shellies.