Retry Instant Cycle - 20 long

A couple weeks ago, I attempted an instant cycle with some seed material from another tank. The seed material was not sufficient seasoned and I wanted to make sure that I had an effective cycle so I added some ammonia and I cycled the tank in about 7 days. That was a 10 gallon tank.

So now I want to instant cycle a 29 gallon tank with a sponge filter that is about 17 days seasoned. Tempted to just use it and call it good. Especially the 29 will initially be lightly stocked. 10 or 20 small guppies and fry. I can monitor water conditions closely and change the water and use Prime if the sponge filter does not keep up.

Or I can start it with the sponge filter and hit it with some ammonia and see how it does. That will test the cycle and boost it if it is not quite cycled enough.

Thoughts?

 

Why not just run the filter on the 40 for a while then get the 29 to put the filter on?

 

Trying to get the males and females separated to slow down the fry train. Hopefully before the juvies reach sexual maturity so I will have some virgins to work with. Hoping the sponge is well enough cycled for that. May cycle another filter the way you suggest for the next tank.

 

Ended up with a 20 gal rather than a 29. Put the new uncycled filter on it as well as the cycled sponge filter. I put some cycled media in the new filter and some stockings full of cycled gravel and some stones from a cycled tank. Also filled it with water from a cycled tank.

Then I dosed it with 0.5 ppm ammonia. Going to check it tomorrow and expect zero ammonia and zero nitrites. Then dose it again maybe with 0.5 or maybe with 1.0 ppm. Not sure yet. Since I am going to put only a few fish in there, I think if it processes 1.0 ppm per 24 hours, I am probably good.

Don't know if it matters if it is 0.5 every 12 hours or 1.0 every 24 hours. But anyway, I am thinking that if all goes according to the plan, I should be able to put fish in it on Wednesday.

I think I probably could have put fish in today, but I figure it can't hurt to be safe.

 

Ig you are gonna keep guppies you want it cycled to 4ppm so you can immediatly throw in some guppies and fully stock it.

 

Ig you are gonna keep guppies you want it cycled to 4ppm so you can immediatly throw in some guppies and fully stock it.

You really think so? I am not sold on the 4 ppm benchmark. 2 ppm seems plenty unless you plan to over stock.

If I start at 1 ppm, seems like I should be able to start with a light load and the cycle capacity will grow as my fish grow. That is what I did with the 40 gallon. So far, so good. Of course it has not been long. But I think 4 ppm would have been overkill.

I do not have enough to fully stock it at the moment. I am thinking I will keep a close eye on the water parameters. I can always put the fish back in the 40 gallon if I show any ammonia or nitrites. That is handling all the fish fine at the moment. Not accumulating much nitrates so I do not think I am close to full capacity on that tank.

On the other hand, if I leave all the fish in the 40 gallon that will further develop the cycle capacity of that tank. And if I push the ammonia harder on the 20 gallon, I will expand that capacity faster. And when my guppy population explodes, I will have as much capacity as possible. I guess that is your point.

I am anxious to get the juvies separated by sex before the females get pregnant so I can slow this train down a bit. Maybe get the 10 gallon going for the juvies and fry and let the 20 gal build its cycle for a while.

 

4ppm is for fully stock and 2ppm is for half stock then add the other half later in the game (2 wks later)

 

4ppm is for fully stock and 2ppm is for half stock then add the other half later in the game (2 wks later)

Some say that. Others say 2 ppm is full stock. It is my understanding that 1 ppm ammonia converts to about 3.7 ppm nitrates. So if you were generating 4 ppm ammonia a day, you would expect to generate 14.8 ppm nitrates a day. You would be doing water changes everyday. If full stock requires about 50 % weekly water changes. And that keeps nitrates below 20 ppm then full stock must be less than 2 ppm per day. Unless something is eating nitrates. Plants consume that much? Nitrate eating bacteria?

I know a lot of people say 4 ppm, but it does not make sense to me.

Momgoose56 your thought?

 

I think your on the right track and getting good advice here. I fall in the middle of The 2 and 4 ppm conversion per day. I personally am of the opinion I want enough media to be able to drop 6-ppm in a day if colonized and called for so I run allot more ceramic than I need to, but never test to max. I used to use allot more sponge than I needed to but it just took up so much space. I do focus on nano tanks or networked nano tanks so space is something I don't have much of. In your case, I would take most of one thing out of a cycled tank, whether substrate/deco or the filter material/media itself and put it in your new one; test to 2 ppm (it should pass in just a couple days) and let it fly.

When I'm testing a cycle with seeded material however, I rarely want to have more than 33% population capacity on any given ring so to speak so I test to the ~2ppm in a day and if it clears the fish go in asap. I also throw some plants in with the fish to cap nitrates. My longest run with top offs only was just over a month (life happens) and I was still pulling dead zero on the big 3 and due to using local rock and having well water my pH hadn't moved by any discernible color in the test tube.

As I use a non fluid media, it doesn't clean itself. Like k1/2 or floating bio balls would. Due to this I view the extra space as overhead cache for die off.

If I were to test up to 6ppm before stocking light to moderately, theoreticaly most of my surface area would be colonized. Then as the tank cycles (substrate, decorations, plants and other surfaces) a large portion of my filters colony would die off. My understanding is that you can shake and swish the ceramics a bit and get them kind of clean but need to tear them down and dump their cycle to get them back up to a high overhead. Why waste the space on the media for an empty tank, when you could extend your medias time in service or maximum number of transplants?

As my tank stock fluctuates significantly due to breeding and culling I like having and keeping the overhead from the start.

My current strategy on this has shifted a bit but I have gone from using ground up marbles (on hand and cheap) to sponges (on hand and cheap) to ceramics (available and kinda cheap), using individual tanks the ceramics were easiest to move, took the least space and fit all too easy in all the commercial in tank box filters like the quiet flow e-series. I just tossed the cartridges, put a washable pre filter under them and dumped in some rings. $10-20 per filter and they move so easy.

My current strategy relies on a tank network, with larger community fish in the largest tank all sharing a single (nano) sump. This let's me run a huge overstock of ceramic, hide my heaters and maintain a consistent bio load to prevent die off. The biggest challenge was making all the tanks "fry safe" the second challenge was making it look good enough to get spousal approval. It was easy though when I said I would quit randomly putting fish and filters in all her Tupperware all throughout the house because of a larger than normal fry drop lol. The 3rd challenge I am still working on is stocking these larger fish, and getting them clean as can be. I can't have a silly Rasbora or Cardinal giving my breeding males any water comunicable diseases.

My breeding tank however has not changed and will not go on the network due to a reptile complication. He is why I started breeding endlers in the first place and I just can't see taking his pond away. I also don't want to change where I breed because it has worked so well, like a lucky tank.

History on why I did the research on Max ppm drop and ramp/die off time ties into my fish half of a snake cage post. With my current overhead gained by running the ceramic, the snake can no longer foam that tank over if he chooses to use it as a toilet. I now know he did it 3 days later because my crypts will try to run a bunch of new shoots as the nitrates spike. Compared to the 1 male and handful of female endlers with fry, he is a metric ton of bioload. And still he only does it once a month or so. It was hard to figure out the real root cause of the issue though because my substrate of choice always held enough bacteria to handle it the foam was die off in the sponges in the filter itself causing a bio film as the load fell back to zero, about 8 hours into it. My test kit away showed good by the time I saw the symptoms, the fish never even stressed or showed me the angry eyes. The sponges would never re colonize until I would wash them. I don't even get the bio film anymore but the last sponges in there are intake and exhaust and I wash them bi-weekly now anyhow since I have something else to carry the overhead.

I know you are looking at a breeding colony of feeders (according to your tank bio) which may be down binned fancies, or possibly over hybridized endlers so your space required will likely vary from mine but the theory is the same. What are you feeding with your feeders out of curiosity?

Btw, Thanks for following me sorg, figured I'd better see what you're all about. I've only been at this for a few years but I have friends deep into the reef scene and I am a very science based analytical person. I've also been doing custom carpentry and auto fabrication my whole life so when I build something, I research for a week or so, draw it a dozen times, and still change it at least twice on the fly. Hope my insight helps you feel better about your filters so you can get on with the fun part.

 

John58ford Thanks for the extraordinarily detailed post. Great information. I want to breed Endlers but before I buy some N strain pure Endlers, I wanted to learn so I decided to practice on feeders.

I think the fish I have are hybridized Endlers. They are cool looking. I want to try to get something interesting out of this stock. But I am a rookie so they will probably just go back to the fish store as feeders when I am done and then my tanks will be ready for the next project.

I tagged you in my Endler thread.

 

John58ford I am interested in your comments about the media capacity. This is the first I have heard of that concept. I had thought of capacity as being related to pressure put on the cycle and BB would grow to match the pressure. But filter media limits would seem to apply as well. Beyond a certain point, the BB would not have enough media and there would be a capacity limitation. I am thinking that media limit would be multI factorial. There would be a ppm limit, but there would also be a total limit. A filter that could handle 6 ppm on a 10 gallon tank could not handle 6 ppm on a 40 gallon. Would it be proportional? 6 ppm capacity on a 10 gallon would handle 1.5 ppm on a 40? Of course there would be other filtering considerations in the difference between the needs of a 10 and the needs of a 40. But at this point I am focused on understanding the ammonia processing dynamics.

Thanks again for your extensive input.

 

Tank was still at 0.5 ppm - did not seem to process any ammonia over the past 12 hours. That seems odd to me. With donated cycled media, it seems like it should have processed some.

Dosed it with another 0.5 ppm which should bring concentration up to 1.0 ppm. Will test again this evening.

Seems I will not be able to add fish as quickly as I had hoped.

Wondering if adding some bottled bacteria would help or if that is a different program and would just muddle what I have going here. Might add a bit more contributed donor tank stuff. I guess every little bit helps.

 

I think its because the media is so young. Usually when you add establised media it takes a week or two to cycle.

 

I think its because the media is so young. Usually when you add establised media it takes a week or two to cycle.

Yup, that makes sense.

I cycled my 40 gallon in three weeks with media from my son's 10 gallon. Maybe I will swipe some more of his media and gook.

Arrrrggggg...... patience is not my long suit......

 

well patience is neccasary.

I say just cycle it without old media bc the tank is new and the media is young.

 

Usually when you add establised media it takes a week or two to cycle.

I am curious about this when I hear people talk about instant cycling with established media. More mature media than mine. But even then, is it really instant? Or is it partially instant and you start with limited stocking and work up over time?

I suppose it depends. If you are cycling a 10 gallon tank with media from a 100 gallon tank, perhaps it is instant. But the reverse takes time.

Anyway it is all interesting.

 

I have got 0.5 ppm nitrites after about 19 hours. So looks like the contributed media is helping some.

If I have zero ammonia tonight, I will try stepping up to 1.0 ppm and see what happens.

 

So it is not cycled all the way. You need to cycle until there is no nitrites, ammonia. You want nitrates to appear.

 

Yup, I understand the program

 

I am curious about this when I hear people talk about instant cycling with established media. More mature media than mine. But even then, is it really instant? Or is it partially instant and you start with limited stocking and work up over time?

I suppose it depends. If you are cycling a 10 gallon tank with media from a 100 gallon tank, perhaps it is instant. But the reverse takes time.

Anyway it is all interesting.

I used media and squeezwd large sponge from my 46g mature tank into 3 10 gallon tanks and had two goldfish in each tank and it took close to 3 weeks still to cycle.

 

I am curious about this when I hear people talk about instant cycling with established media. More mature media than mine. But even then, is it really instant? Or is it partially instant and you start with limited stocking and work up over time?

I suppose it depends. If you are cycling a 10 gallon tank with media from a 100 gallon tank, perhaps it is instant. But the reverse takes time.

Anyway it is all interesting.

The size of the tank the seeded media comes from doesn't matter. The bio-load of the tank is what determines the amount of bacteria on the media. You could take media from a 100 gallon tank but if it has a very low bio-load there won't be enough bacteria on the media to instantly cycle a 10 gallon tank filled with more fish or a higher bio-load than the 100 gallon tank. It will help but it won't instantly cycle the 10 gallon tank.

If the 100 gallon tank is fully stocked though media from it will instantly cycle a 10 gallon tank. The amount of bacteria on the media is fully dependent on the bio-load in the tank the media is coming from.

Just this past week I pulled a well seeded dual sponge filter from my over stocked 55 gallon tank and instantly cycled a 10 gallon tank for my pleco fry. There are about 50 of them so their bio-load is fairly high but there was enough bacteria on the seeded sponges to handle the load. I have kept a close eye on the perimeters. There has been no ammonia or nitrites and I am seeing nitrates.

 

Seems like it would be a function of bio load per flow adjusted surface area. If the tank had a bio load of X, surface area of Y and flow of Z then the bacteria concentration would be the same as a tank that had half the bio load, half the surface area and half the flow.

But if you take media from the donor tank that is one one hundredth of the surface area, it seems that it should not be enough to cycle another tank immediately unless the new tank was only one one hundredth the size. I suppose unless the donated media was put in a filter or was a filter in which case a small amount of surface area could work harder being accelerated by flow.

I would expect that such an immediate cycle process would only partially cycle the new tank. Perhaps the new tank would cycle very quickly since it would have a balanced complete cycle even if small, it would double every day or so. So if you started with a fractional cycle, it would catch up in a few days.

Unless the bacteria has a variable capacity to consume. Perhaps the bacteria has an ability to eat more for a period of time until the population expands to cover all the surface area of the new tank. Perhaps that works fine with fish, but I wonder if it would pass the 4 ppm ammonia in 24 hours test. I would expect not. I suppose it does not matter so long as it processes enough to keep up with the fish. But it would then seem that a fishless cycle to 1 ppm might work similarly as well.

Unless mattgirl 's hypothesis about a stronger cycle from a fish in process is valid. In which case perhaps a 1 ppm cycle capacity from an established, mature, cycled tank is sufficient but a 1 ppm cycle capacity from a new fishless cycle is not. It seems plausible that the naturally produce ammonia might be produced in such a way that it processes differently. Maybe there are some associated bi-products that contribute to the process in some way.

Doesn't really matter as long as it works I suppose. But interesting nonetheless.

 

Continuing to process ammonia and nitrites building. Seems I have a ways to go yet.

Dosing 0.5 ppm ammonia every 12 hours. This is based on my hypothesis that very high ammonia dosing can create an unbalanced cycle. My hypothesis is based on no data, just my intuitive impression of what makes sense. Guessing I am a couple weeks away from a complete cycle.

 

Why does it make sense high ammonia unbalances a cycle?

 

Philosophically and generally, steady processes that avoid extremes appeal to me so I am sure that mindset colors my intuitive thinking.

Specifically ammonia eating bacteria develops first and nitrite eating second and more slowly. If you keep feeding ammonia at high levels before the nitrite eating bacteria catches up, you will have disproportionately high ammonia eating bacteria. Ultimately you accumulate a lot of nitrites and the nitrite eating bacteria grows to eat that, but you may then grow too much nitrite eating bacteria to process the backload at the same time if you then back off the ammonia, the ammonia eating bacteria may die off or become dormant.

If instead you maintain steady lower levels of ammonia, then you may developed a more balanced cycle. Perhaps including water changes to keep nitrites reasonable as the nitrite eating bacteria catches up.

A fully cycled tank would measure zero ammonia and nitrites, but we know they exist since otherwise the associated bacteria would die. Ammonia and nitrites exist in concentrations that cannot be measured by common measuring tools. So if you are processing 2 ppm ammonia per day, it is really probably processed 0.0014 ppm per minute. If you really wanted to develop a more natural cycle, perhaps you would dose it like that. Keep a steady very low concentration.

High ammonia levels followed by a huge nitrite spike seems unnecessarily dramatic and unnatural. It seems to me that dramatic and unnatural would result in less balance.

I have read that the bacteria evolves uniquely in each aquarium to suit the needs of that particular environment. It seems that the more closely you can simulate normal levels of ammonia and nitrites the better suited the particular cycle will be to that particular environment.

I am currently dosing 0.5 ppm every 12 hours. But I could see myself dosing 0.0625 every hour for the 16 hours I am awake. Not really practical unless you are a full time fish keeper.

 

6 ppm capacity on a 10 gallon would handle 1.5 ppm on a 40?

This is true to a point. I was speaking of the media you would put in the filter itself more than the actual pump housing that most people call the filter. Different media has different amounts of "space" in it, usually measured in square feet per cubic liter of media. I think my research found that sponges were around 100 sq. Ft./l, ceramic rings about 20,000sq ft/l and there's way better, I believe matrix or one of the other high dollar medias was around 200,000 or something crazy high.

The issue is the more sq ft/l the finer the micro holes so the get dirty faster after a die off or poor pre filtration and are harder to clean.

Now I've read somewhere else that each lb of stock required x number of sq f/l. And have seen studies with similar ammonia ppm drop over 24h per sqft/l /gallon.

With this information and some testing I found that I could get enough surface area of ceramic to fit in a 3 gallon rated internal box filter to support a theoretical 30+ gallon tank with about 3x overhead. A 90 gallon would use the whole surface area of that quantity of media if fully stocked, and the media were to start cleaning and only house living bacteria with no previous clogging of the pores they live in.

Obviously the flow rate of that pump housing would not move enough water to feed the bacteria as that pump cannot move the water volume more than once per hour. The minimum to keep the bio alive is about once per hour and the target is usually 4-6. You could however get the media running in a tiny tank with the overhead, and when you drop it in the larger tank, with appropriate water flow and food (ammonia) it will grow rapidly to catch up. In my experience about 3 days using this theory) method. I have also not seen any ammonia above .25 when taking this media from a highly stocked 4 gallon breed area to a 60 gallon lightly stocked un-cycled tank at 5 water turns per hour. That is the largest test I have done of this kind. For little tanks (a few gallons) I used to take out literally 6 seeded rings per quiet flow 3 add a dozen new ones, put them in the new tub and watch it work.

Edit: I typed that it in a rush this morning. I want to add that the breed tank has very well seasoned substrate (years) that typically carries the fish load quite well when I switch to new rings in that tank. If the rings in there aren't more than a month or two and I need another tub like right now fast, I put about half of the rocks in the new tub and replace the old ones in the breeder. I have a big Ice chest full of various cleaned rocks and other materials for such things I hide in the garage.

 

Very interesting!

 

Philosophically and generally, steady processes that avoid extremes appeal to me so I am sure that mindset colors my intuitive thinking.

Specifically ammonia eating bacteria develops first and nitrite eating second and more slowly. If you keep feeding ammonia at high levels before the nitrite eating bacteria catches up, you will have disproportionately high ammonia eating bacteria. Ultimately you accumulate a lot of nitrites and the nitrite eating bacteria grows to eat that, but you may then grow too much nitrite eating bacteria to process the backload at the same time if you then back off the ammonia, the ammonia eating bacteria may die off or become dormant.

If instead you maintain steady lower levels of ammonia, then you may developed a more balanced cycle. Perhaps including water changes to keep nitrites reasonable as the nitrite eating bacteria catches up.

A fully cycled tank would measure zero ammonia and nitrites, but we know they exist since otherwise the associated bacteria would die. Ammonia and nitrites exist in concentrations that cannot be measured by common measuring tools. So if you are processing 2 ppm ammonia per day, it is really probably processed 0.0014 ppm per minute. If you really wanted to develop a more natural cycle, perhaps you would dose it like that. Keep a steady very low concentration.

High ammonia levels followed by a huge nitrite spike seems unnecessarily dramatic and unnatural. It seems to me that dramatic and unnatural would result in less balance.

I have read that the bacteria evolves uniquely in each aquarium to suit the needs of that particular environment. It seems that the more closely you can simulate normal levels of ammonia and nitrites the better suited the particular cycle will be to that particular environment.

I am currently dosing 0.5 ppm every 12 hours. But I could see myself dosing 0.0625 every hour for the 16 hours I am awake. Not really practical unless you are a full time fish keeper.

Basically what you are talking about is what happens when doing a fish in cycle. They are constantly adding just a little bit of ammonia. Even at that though a high nitrite spike can happen. When cycling a tank we need to try to keep it balanced. So many times folks have come here and they have off the chart nitrites and nitrates while doing their fishless cycle. Suddenly the ammonia stops going down. That happens because things are too far out of balance. Big water changes bring things back in balance and the cycle moves forward again. Quite often they find that their cycle is finished but the numbers were so far out of balance it has seemingly stalled.

Up until I set my tank back up after it sitting empty for 6 years I didn't have a test kit. I did test for ammonia and kept an eye on the PH through all the other years of the hobby so when I talk about what happened when I cycled my tank I am talking about this last time cycling my tank with a full range of tests so I was able to watch what was happening throughout the process.

I set the tank up, added everything I was going to add (substrate, decor and water) then ran it for a couple of days to make sure everything was in working order. I then added my full stock of fish. This is where the extra work comes in when doing a fish in cycle. I did my first 50% water change 2 days later and every other day after that.

Not once did I ever get an ammonia reading. I know it was there but I kept it too low for the test to register it. After about 4 weeks though I got my nitrite spike. It didn't gradually go up. It went from a zero reading to off the chart over night. When that happened I started doing water changes every day. It took 5 straight days but after the 5th day the nitrites were zero again. They didn't go down gradually. I tested each day and each day they were still off the chart until the day they dropped to zero. This was before I started doing and recommending the dilution test someone else here suggested so I am not sure exactly how high the nitrites actually were.

Once the nitrites dropped to zero 5 weeks after setting the tank up and I was seeing nitrates I knew the cycle was basically done. At 6 weeks I considered my tank not only cycled but also well established. During most of the cycling process the tank was cloudy, sometimes more than at other times. I didn't consider the cycle established until the water cleared up completely. It was at that point where I went to 50% weekly water changes.

The only thing I added during the cycling process was Prime during the water changes.

Will everyones tank follow this same timeline. Probably not. There are too many variables. Commitment to water changes is the biggest factor but the chemistery of ones source water plays a big part too.

To start with, the keeper of the water does what the cycle will eventually do and that is keep the ammonia down to negligable levels. When doing a fish in cycle it is impossible to remove all of the ammonia because the fish are constantly adding it but it can be kept down low enough not to register with the tests available to hobbiest and the cycle will continue to move forward.

It will be intresting to see if you get the high nitrite spike while just dosing .5 ammonia daily. I feel sure my full stock of fish produced more than that thus the reason for the high spike although I was removing most of what they were producing. It seems there must have been a tipping point to where there was just enough ammonia eating bacteria to cause the number of nitrites to explode. I understand what is happening and know what to expect but don't totally understand the science behind it.

 

My nitrites got up above 5 ppm a few days ago. I did a big water change (75% or so). Brought it down around 2 ppm.

I have continued 1 ppm per day (0.50 ppm twice a day). Nitrites were about 0.25 ppm this morning. Hit it with another 0.5 ppm ammonia. I am expecting that this evening when I check again, I will have zero zero. I plan to let it go another day or two to make sure it is stable and then begin stocking.

I have both a HOB and a sponge filter on this tank. I may steal the sponge for another tank. But I am thinking that I should not remove the sponge too soon after the tank has completed its cycle since doing so would set the cycle back a bit.

OTH, maybe I should remove the sponge right away and continue the ammonia dosing for a few more days to see if it has a cycle with just the HOB.

 

My nitrites got up above 5 ppm a few days ago. I did a big water change (75% or so). Brought it down around 2 ppm.

I have continued 1 ppm per day (0.50 ppm twice a day). Nitrites were about 0.25 ppm this morning. Hit it with another 0.5 ppm ammonia. I am expecting that this evening when I check again, I will have zero zero. I plan to let it go another day or two to make sure it is stable and then begin stocking.

I have both a HOB and a sponge filter on this tank. I may steal the sponge for another tank. But I am thinking that I should not remove the sponge too soon after the tank has completed its cycle since doing so would set the cycle back a bit.

OTH, maybe I should remove the sponge right away and continue the ammonia dosing for a few more days to see if it has a cycle with just the HOB.

Sounds like everything is right on track. Good job. I think your idea of removing the sponge now is a good test but only if you have another tank to move it to. You don't want to chance losing all the work you have put into seeding it. Running both HOB and sponge in the same tank is never a bad idea though. If one should fail for whatever reason you have a backup running.

 

Sounds like everything is right on track. Good job. I think your idea of removing the sponge now is a good test but only if you have another tank to move it to. You don't want to chance losing all the work you have put into seeding it. Running both HOB and sponge in the same tank is never a bad idea though. If one should fail for whatever reason you have a backup running.

I have a 10 gallon cycling currently. I am running a cycle experiment (different thread). Strictly fishless with no seed material. I could abandon that experiment and put the sponge in that tank. However, I do not need it yet so maybe best is leave the sponge where it is for now and let the cycle experiment play out - knowing that if I need it suddenly, I can probably finish the cycle within a few days by putting the sponge in.

At the moment, I have four tanks, two stocked, two cycling. I have two sponge filters. Perhaps I will pick up a couple more so that I will have a sponge in each tank.

Also thinking of picking up another 40 gallon breeder and setting it up in the garage as a culling tank. I have a filter that would work for it. I would just need a heater. Might have to do something different in the summer since the garage would get too hot. But maybe I will not need it then.

 

I have a supply of and use at least one in each of my tanks. The 55 has 2. They are cheap enough to pick up a few for backups. I have bought quite a bit of equipment from this ebay seller and have never been disappointed with my purchases.

 

There's a lot of good info in this thread. When I look at an instant cycle it involves taking a filter normally that has been running on an established tank for a minimum of 1 month if not longer to ensure that filter is fully seeded or the media is fully seeded. Normally when I do this process the filter gets transferred from a larger capacity tank to a tank with smaller capacity. Then fish are added that day and ammonia levels start getting tested a day or two after that. None of the tanks that I have used this method for have shown any ammonia levels. One of the keys is making sure the filter or media has been in use at a minimum of a month.

 

One of the keys is making sure the filter or media has been in use at a minimum of a month.

I believe that this is the reason both of my "instant cycle" attempts have failed. I was using media that was only seeded for two weeks.

 

OTH, maybe I should remove the sponge right away and continue the ammonia dosing for a few more days to see if it has a cycle with just the HOB.

You have just given me a new idea. I'm getting ready to set up a new qt 10 gallon. I've always wondered what would seed faster, a sponge or my rings. I know the rings win the overhead but sponges are usually still quite adequate.

I am going put myself in your exact position and run both in the new 10 until I'm just short of denitrifying bacteria and then I'll pull the sponge or little box and put it in my junk 10 and have a drag race. Should be close to Fair if I run both bare bottom and do a good algae scrape in the first tank just before deciding the filters, split the dirty water 50/50.

This is by far my favorite thread right now lol.

 

A race.... I like it!

 

zero nitrites 10 to 20 nitrates. Did not test ammonia assume zero. dosed 0.5 ppm ammonia. Will continue that twice a day to confirm processing to zero the begin transferring males from bigger tank.

 

Strangely, nitrite processing has slowed. I pulled a piece of media from the HOB filter and put it next to the sponge. I replaced the HOB media with some seeded media from another tank. I thought the new media would be more strongly seeded and accelerate the process. Perhaps it had the opposite effect.

I also added some guppy grass. Does not seem that should have had an impact. But I am developing the belief that any changes can disrupt the process in unpredictable ways. It does not always make sense. I am expecting (well hoping) that the nitrite processing slow down is temporary and will pick back up soon.

 

Strangely, nitrite processing has slowed. I pulled a piece of media from the HOB filter and put it next to the sponge. I replaced the HOB media with some seeded media from another tank. I thought the new media would be more strongly seeded and accelerate the process. Perhaps it had the opposite effect.

In my humble opinion consistency is the best path to take while cycling. I don't think the new bacteria appreciates changes. Once the filter media is set up I feel it is best to do no changes until the bacteria settles in. Rinse if necessary but then put back in the same tank with the same perimeters.

All of your media is still fairly young so hasn't had a great amount of time to get firmly established so it will struggle if being used to attempt an instant cycle of another tank. I don't feel like it is strong enough yet to do so. It can help jump start much like bottled bacteria but isn't strong enough to instantly cycle yet.

 

consistency is the best path to take while cycling.

This ^^ is good advice.

Momgoose56 says; ammonia + patience = cycled tank.

Perhaps mattgirl says; ammonia + patience + consistency = cycled tank faster....