Relatively important question.

Kayin1470
  • #1
I'm a little worried. I have recently started a community tank, there are 6 rummy nose tetra who aren't doing great, but are alright. 6 neon tetra who are doing wonderfully. a beautiful red and violet beta, and recently I have added a large cory catfish, a small cory catfish, two orange/yellow mollies (same sex I believe, and they follow each other around constantly doing exactly what the other does, lol.) AND a Blue Paradise. Well, I put these fish in last night, and this morning I woke up and noticed there were multiple holes in the tail fins of my beta. so now my betta has become relatively aggressive towards the newer fish, but primarily the blue paradise. He stretches his fins and flares his gills, and pecks him. and from what I have seen so far, this blue paradise seems relatively calm, shy, and docile.

Being worried, I looked up a Blue Paradise on google. I found results for "Blue Paradise" as well as "Blue Gourami" "Paradise Gourami" and "Blue Paradise Gourami". None of these helped very much, but what I need to know is if my "Blue Paradise" (this is how it was labeled at the fish store) is a gourami, because if it is, I know that I can not keep the Blue Paradise with my Betta.

Can anyone tell me if this paradise is in fact a gourami? I am assuming it is, but I really would like some sure feedback. Thank you so much.
 
luna
  • #2
I'm not an expert - I'll wait for Rose or Dave to play that role - but if your betta's fins have been damaged, he may need to be put into a hospital tank and treated (but DEFINITELY needs to be separated if he's been attacked)...and probably his own tank, or at least install a divider in your community tank. Bettas - with exceptions based entirely on the personality of the fish, it seems - do not make good community fish.
 
Lucy
  • #3
If you could post a picture, maybe someone can help you identify your fish.
I agree with luna, your betta should have a tank to it's self before someone (somefish?) gets seriously hurt.
 
kra-z-fishmumm
  • #4
Just had this question about betta being in with others. Not a good idea. No really, also, your tank is over stocked. 1" adult fish (molly will get to say 2+", so 2+ gallons) per gallon. And you are cyling your tank with fish which is a hard thing to do cause you have to do daily water changes of at least 20% and check the water pH,nitrate,nitrite,ammonia etc... at least twice a day. If you have all this I'm sorry to repeat. Good luck with your fish and keep us updated.
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
I will give you all a little background. My betta was given to me as a gift with a half bowl. he was miserable and it showed, I got him the 29 gallon tank, put in 6 neons and 6 rummy nose, there is lighting, a great heater, thermometer, undergravel pump filter AND a filter that hangs on the back of the tank, that sucks up water and sends it through a filter and back into the water. the tetra's were a little skiddish because the tank was very open and so I added more hiding objects/plants etc. I put in my betta and there was an INSTANT change. the betta was VERY HAPPY! he was showing magnificent colors, he wasn't pecking or nipping the other fish, the rummynoses got the red in there noses again, it was great, and this went on for a few days. but I wanted a few more fish for my tank, so I went down and bought a blue paradise, two mollies, and 2 corydoras (one big one small) I put them all in (after acclimation of course) and everything was great, no aggression, everyone was doing amazingly well, then I woke up the next morning and saw that there were holes in my betas tail and that he was doing the "I'm bigger so hit the road" act, flaring his gills and spreading his fins, and pecking. I went back down to the pet shop and talked to the guys down there, who I no longer trust whatsoever. They said if I got another Paradise it would lower his aggression towards the betta and thus allow the betta a chance to calm down, and I also decided to get a few Killa fish. I did this on this night actually, and it did not work, in fact the Paradises were chasing and attacking each other! as well as the betta being very aggressive towards both of them, so I took both of the paradises out and I'm going to take them back to the fish store tomorrow. I am also sad to say one of my neons unexplicably died this evening, possibly he was scared from all the commotion from the beta/paradise fish, or something else. there are now 18 fish in my tank. 5 neon tetra, 6 rummy nose tetra, (who all school together), then I have 2 Killa fish, 1 Beta, 2 Mollies who are getting along great, and my two corydoras, which no one bothers and they do wonders for cleaning up the uneaten food that falls to the bottom of the tank.

This is all that has happened.. thank you for your help so far, and by the way, after I took out the two paradise fish, the Beta's aggression has dropped dramatically, hes a little cautious around the Killa and Molly fish, but this is all. I have not seen any gill flaring or fin stretching since. However, I do not want this cautious territorialism to escalate into something bad, any alternatives to taking out more fish?
 
ShaynaB
  • #6
The reason the paradise fish and the betta were being aggressive toward each other is because they are Gouramis. Betta's don't like fish that look like them, or that are bright and flashy, which is why people don't put them into community tanks very often. Sometimes things can go ok for a week or two then you'll wake up with attacked fish in your tank one day. (Even with neons.)

I agree with the others that the betta should really be in a tank of his own. They are fantastic fish! I have my bettas in desktop aquariums and they like it quite a bit. Also, he may have to be separated anyways to treat his fins if they don't grow back by themselves.

Did you cycle your tank before you put the fish in?

Good luck!
 
ShaynaB
  • #7
OH, I forgot! Welcome to Fishlore!
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
T H A N K Y O U! you answered my primary question, if the "blue paradise" was in fact a gourami. thank you so much. but now on to the larger issue, I really don't want to have to take out my Beta but it is beginning to look like I will have to more and more... The problem with this is that I cannot afford another tank right now, so if I take him out I will have to take him back to the fish store, and if I do that it's like showing a fish happiness just so that he can experience loneliness back in a little cup again. I do not know what to do.
 
Lucy
  • #9
I would take the other fish back and keep the betta especially since he was a gift. Another option that luna suggested is to put a divider in.

I just noticed the age of your tank. Please read up on the nitrogen cycle. https://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
Your tank has not cycled yet this may or may not be the reason your neon died.
Do you have a test kit? Most people here recommend the API mater test kit. The strips are not accurate.
You will need to do daily water changes in order to keep your ammonia levels down. Ammonia is toxic to fish.
With so many fish, at this stage of your cycle, this is beyond my limited knowledge.
Read the article and keep asking questions. The wonderful people here have a lot of experience and will be happy to help you.
Good luck to you and your fish.
 
ShaynaB
  • #10
Here's a liveaquaria link to it, to see if it's what you're talking about.



There are breeder boxes that could be large enough to be temporary homes for a betta, or a kritter keeper would be good, too, as long as it has water flow in and out of it. That way he could be in the tank, but separated. They're relatively inexpensive. I think I bought my small breeder box for under 5 dollars, so a larger one shouldn't be much more. They need air, though, so make sure it stays at the top! This is a very *very* temporary fix though!

I went looking for an inexpensive tank for my newest betta and ended up at Walmart (ugh.) and got a 5 gallon minI bow for around $36. Less expensive than a chain store or LFS will sell you, anyways! That, some rocks, a heater, and a plant or two should get you a nice set up.

Cycling your tanks is important, though! If and when you set up a new tank, make sure it's cycled!
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
regarding the cycling, I put in this "aquasafe" stuff that came with my filters, it came in two packages and each one said "good for 30 gallons" so I poured one little bag in, the little bag also said that it gets rid of clorine AND cloramine, plus I allowed my tank to cycle for 24 hours with everything running in it, before I put in any fish. total tank age is now about 10 - 15 days.

Also, I had my water tested down at the fish store after my first 12 fish were put in the tank, and everything was perfect, water was 7.4 I THINK, I don't remember exactly, also no ammonia, nitrite, or nitrates. so everything looked good then. I didn't know I needed to check this so often though.
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
by the way, the fish store I'm buying my fish from is the only store in my town, and there prices are much higher, I.E. the paradise link you just gave me lists them at under 5 dollars each, whereas the store here sells them for 9 dollars each. and in short, I have over $450 in this hobby so far, and I'm hoping since I won't be getting more fish anytime soon, that the average costs will start going down.
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
and by the way, my Beta's name is Icarus
 
Lucy
  • #14
Once you get things cycled the cost will go down.

Aquasafe is a water conditioner that makes your tap water safe for the fish, it does not cycle the tank. Prime is also a water condition, but it also will lock the ammonia (not get rid of it) and make it less toxic for your fish. I don't have personal experience with it, but I trust the other members here who use it.

The nitrogin cycle takes longer than 24 hrs., longer than 10-15 days Please read the atricle about it, you will find it very helpful.

Another option I just thought is a product called Bio-Spira. It contains the bacteria that will 'eat' your ammonia, thus cycling your quickly.
If I am wrong about this, please correct me, as I have no personal experience with it.
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #15
well, thank you everyone for all the help so far and any added comments will be appreciated. what are almost failsafe fish companions that can go into a community tank with a beta? and also, I just finished reading the Nitrogen Cycle article... well... since I already have fish in my tank... now what? just let them keep swimming?? Or do I N E E D to get Bio Spira? I do not want my fish to die, I'm already quite attached.
 
ShaynaB
  • #16
I check my tanks weekly so that the nitrates and ammonia don't get too high. Also, I do a 20 % water change every week with a gravel vac. (They're important.) I'll do them more often if the tests show higher levels. An API master test kit is something I'd look into buying. (I know, I did that when I started. "You mean I have to buy HOW MUCH STUFF?")

I don't even want to think about the amount of money I've spent on fish. *cringes* I suppose it doesn't help that my mollies like to have babies... (Watch out for that!) Do you know what sex your mollies are?
 
ShaynaB
  • #17
I'd get a test kit, then if it actually is cycled there's no need for bio spira. I've used it in my tanks and it basically cycles the tank for you. (It's expensive if you can't find a store in your area that keeps it in stock because it has to be shipped overnight to keep it cold.) It really is amazing stuff!
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
Both my mollies are similar, one is a little darker, ones eyes are completely black whereas the others have whites, the tail fins look the same, although on the brighter colored one, you can see through his/her scales and see his/her bones, it is really cool.
 
Lucy
  • #19
I'll let some of the more experienced betta parents weigh in on fish companions for a betta. There is a lot of betta information on the betta board, I believe you'll find your answer there.

You don't N E E D Bio-Spira, but it may safe the life of your fish.

Other than that, do plenty of water changes at least daily (maybe more? not sure about that) and only rinse your filter media, if it gets really gunky, in the water you take out of your tank during the water changes.

Always add a water conditioner to the tap water before adding it to your tank.

I know it's confusing, but your doing the right thing, asking questions.
 
ShaynaB
  • #20
The way to tell with mollies is on their analfins. The males will look like they have a pointy tube type thing and the girls will have a triangular fin. I know there's a picture of both around the forum somewhere but I can't seem to find it. The females will fold their fins back sometimes, so watch them for a minute or two!
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #21
Okay, I'll have to go to the store tomorrow and buy some conditioner, any good recommendations? or should I just stick with aquasafe. And let me go and check my mollies, be right back.
 
Lucy
  • #22
Prime will lock the ammonia, making it less toxic to your fish.
 
ShaynaB
  • #23
I use Aquasafe, but a lot of people talk about Prime being a good conditioner.
 
Lucy
  • #24
lol we posted at the same time, shayna. I am using up the last of my aquasafe. I'll be switching to Prime.

Kayin, when you go to the store tomorrow, take a water sample with you. They should check it for free.
Ask them to write down what your levels are for PH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates.
If you post them here (a new thread, maybe), someone can tell you what you should do next.
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
worry strikes again. back, and one of my mollies has a transparant analfin, and its rounded like a leaf, whereas I can't see the other one, because he can't get off the bottom of the tank, he is just sittin there, and whereas the other one can move its tale all at once, this one is waving it in an S like pattern, I hope you understand. I would think he was trying to go backwards or something.
 
ShaynaB
  • #26
The rounded like a leaf analfin sounds like it's a girl. It's possible that they were sleeping and the other one didn't get up. If I turn on my lights in the middle of the night, it takes them a while to get up. My mollies move their tail fins in a curvy pattern when they're just floating versus swimming around where they move it back and forth.

I agree with Lucy. Have your store do another water test for you!
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
alrighty then, well. THANK YOU SO MUCH! you have all been a wonderful help, I honestly don't know what I would have done without your help. Ill bag a little bit of water and go down to have it tested tomorrow morning. Night everyone and thanks again.
 
Lucy
  • #28
You are very welcome, I'm glad we could be of some help. It's nice to be able pass along what what I have learned from this forum. It's a great site full of wonderful people. Keep us posted and good luck.
 
o0Faraz0o
  • #29
hey if you think that you tanks like overstocked and scared of killing you fish with there own filth get some plants I think they work wonders in a overstock tank they reduce the toxic chemicals and oxidise the water and makes the tank look much better. Only if you have good lighting tho .
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #30
Ill think about that, thank you
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
fish r doing well
 
Kayin1470
  • Thread Starter
  • #32
bed time too =P night all
 

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