Red Plants Not Staying Red

danhutchins

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So, I have been keeping fish in a planted tank for about 5 years now and decided to get some red plants to break up all the green in the tank. My issue is that the red plants just turn green. I dose iron and have high light but honestly I'm unsure how much iron I should dose. I'm using Dustins Fishtank iron. I also use Dustins Fishtank all in one liquid fertilizer. Lights are on for 6 hours a day because any longer and I get crazy algae in just a couple days. Co2 comes on when lights come on and goes out when lights go out. All other plants are doing great just can't figure out the red ones.

Oh and for some reason the app is not working for me. I can't see threads or posts when I sign in any ideas would help

Oh and for some reason the app is not working for me. I can't see threads or posts when I sign in any ideas would help
Figured out the app issue. Still waiting for help with the plants.
 

Annie59

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Sounds to me you need higher lighting is all. What kind of lighting do you have?
 

-Mak-

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Agree, what is the light, tank size, and tank height? Red is mostly caused by high light
 

Wraithen

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I find it odd that you have co2 and can only run 6 hours of light. Unless your lights are 80 or above in the par department, I'm wondering if your co2 isn't a high enough concentration.

Red plants are indeed more about lighting than excessive iron.

What plants are in the tank?
 
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danhutchins

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Sounds to me you need higher lighting is all. What kind of lighting do you have?
I'm getting around 90 PAR with the lights I have. I doubt its lighting. I have a finnex planted plus 24/7 and a beamswork full spectrum.

I find it odd that you have co2 and can only run 6 hours of light. Unless your lights are 80 or above in the par department, I'm wondering if your co2 isn't a high enough concentration.

Red plants are indeed more about lighting than excessive iron.

What plants are in the tank?
Yup around 90 PAR for lighting

Yup around 90 PAR for lighting
Cant remember the names of the red plants. I do have a pic posted you could look at.

I find it odd that you have co2 and can only run 6 hours of light. Unless your lights are 80 or above in the par department, I'm wondering if your co2 isn't a high enough concentration.

Red plants are indeed more about lighting than excessive iron.

What plants are in the tank?
I'm also running co2 at close to 7 bubbles a second. Cant really tell when you get that high. Guess I could record it in slow motion to count them.
 

Wraithen

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I'm going to guess you are not using enough co2. Are you using ph drop to determine co2? Drop checker?

As long as you have enough ferts, there isn't a good reason for you not to be able to run that lighting longer, unless you are lean on co2.

As for the loss of red, what plants are you using? Some really don't like to be red when they are under water so it takes everything being dialed in perfectly to get them enough light for long enough to get that red color.

Have you tested tds, gh, kh, and phosphate recently? I have strong low/ weak medium lighting at substrate, no co2, and my small red plants do fine. My scarlet temple however is just as green as my normal temple plants, despite growing to the waters surface.
 
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danhutchins

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Honestly I can't remember what the names of the red plants are. I can bump up the co2 a bit and see if that helps. But yeah I'm getting close to 90 PAR at substrate with my lighting. I do have a picture posted if you want to look at that to determine what the plants are. I only have 4 different species of red plants. I know it's hard to tell what ones are red but I think the first pic shows that they were red at one time. Is there any plants you would recommend that stay red without much co2 and ferts.
I'm going to guess you are not using enough co2. Are you using ph drop to determine co2? Drop checker?

As long as you have enough ferts, there isn't a good reason for you not to be able to run that lighting longer, unless you are lean on co2.

As for the loss of red, what plants are you using? Some really don't like to be red when they are under water so it takes everything being dialed in perfectly to get them enough light for long enough to get that red color.

Have you tested tds, gh, kh, and phosphate recently? I have strong low/ weak medium lighting at substrate, no co2, and my small red plants do fine. My scarlet temple however is just as green as my normal temple plants, despite growing to the waters surface.


Just realized there are no pics.
20181111_172129.jpg

Older one.
20181111_072846.jpg

Honestly I can't remember what the names of the red plants are. I can bump up the co2 a bit and see if that helps. But yeah I'm getting close to 90 PAR at substrate with my lighting. I do have a picture posted if you want to look at that to determine what the plants are. I only have 4 different species of red plants. I know it's hard to tell what ones are red but I think the first pic shows that they were red at one time. Is there any plants you would recommend that stay red without much co2 and ferts.Honestly I can't remember what the names of the red plants are. I can bump up the co2 a bit and see if that helps. But yeah I'm getting close to 90 PAR at substrate with my lighting. I do have a picture posted if you want to look at that to determine what the plants are. I only have 4 different species of red plants. I know it's hard to tell what ones are red but I think the first pic shows that they were red at one time. Is there any plants you would recommend that stay red without much co2 and ferts.

Just realized there are no pics.Just realized there are no pics.
20181111_172129.jpg

Older one.Older one.
20181111_072846.jpg
Sorry having issues with the app posting things twice.
 

Wraithen

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I'm not sure what that tall stem plant is. The left plant looks like a flame sword. I have no idea, nor can I find what appears to be the red anubias plant.

On the other hand, lets do some finding out about your co2 since I'm pretty confidant that needs to be fixed regardless, to allow higher lighting, to allow red growth.

Take a gallon or so of your tank water out and leave it in a bucket overnight with an airstone going in it. Test the kh and gh in your tank.

The next day, take a ph reading of what is in the bucket. This is your ph. The gh and kh of the tank water will tell us roughly what you have going on in your water. As long as your bucket ph is above a certain level, we can easily determine how much of a ph we need.

We will then test your ph inside your tank a few hours after the co2 is turned on. We are looking for a ph drop of at least 1.0 I'm pretty sure we won't see it that low initially. Slightly increase co2 every day until you get down to 1.0 to 1.2 of a drop. 1.2 should be about 30ppm which is perfectly safe for the fish.
 

Thunder_o_b

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I run the same light you do (Finnex plant 24/7 CC. Have three with one more on the way) my red plants are doing very well. I do not use Co2. The only thing I can suggest is switch to the Seachem line. I use Flourish, Iron, Excel, Potassium and remineralize my RO/DI water with Equilibrium.

I can post photos tonight after I get home if you like.

Oh, I also do not use the auto settings. Everything is set to max for 6-7 hours a day.
 

Wraithen

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I run the same light you do (Finnex plant 24/7 CC. Have three with one more on the way) my red plants are doing very well. I do not use Co2. The only thing I can suggest is switch to the Seachem line. I use Flourish, Iron, Excel, Potassium and remineralize my RO/DI water with Equilibrium.

I can post photos tonight after I get home if you like.

Oh, I also do not use the auto settings. Everything is set to max for 6-7 hours a day.
Lol. Just realized youve been cheating this whole time! That ro/dI water is a huge key to your success.
 
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danhutchins

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I run the same light you do (Finnex plant 24/7 CC. Have three with one more on the way) my red plants are doing very well. I do not use Co2. The only thing I can suggest is switch to the Seachem line. I use Flourish, Iron, Excel, Potassium and remineralize my RO/DI water with Equilibrium.

I can post photos tonight after I get home if you like.

Oh, I also do not use the auto settings. Everything is set to max for 6-7 hours a day.
Mine are also set to max for 6 hours a day. I think I'm going to bump up the co2 as recommended and see if that helps within a month or two.
 

Guanchy

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I have tall plants in my tank that only the top turn red the bottom stays green and that's because they need high lighting and since the top is the only place where it gets the most light it turns red. So I'm assuming this is the issue with your plants. Maybe hight lighting. Are they being covered
 

-Mak-

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Can you tell us if you're using a drop checker? Otherwise you have no way of knowing how much CO2 is in the tank.
Did you test PAR yourself? 90 seems really high because the finnex 24/7 is not a super powerful light.
I can't seem to find Dustin's all in one on his website, do you have a link?
 
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danhutchins

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I have tall plants in my tank that only the top turn red the bottom stays green and that's because they need high lighting and since the top is the only place where it gets the most light it turns red. So I'm assuming this is the issue with your plants. Maybe hight lighting. Are they being covered
Nope lighting is not the issue. I have already stated lighting in 3 other posts, but thanks.

Can you tell us if you're using a drop checker? Otherwise you have no way of knowing how much CO2 is in the tank.
Did you test PAR yourself? 90 seems really high because the finnex 24/7 is not a super powerful light.
I can't seem to find Dustin's all in one on his website, do you have a link?
The Dustins stuff is his plant booster. I do not have a drop checker as of now but will order one when I get paid this week.

Can you tell us if you're using a drop checker? Otherwise you have no way of knowing how much CO2 is in the tank.
Did you test PAR yourself? 90 seems really high because the finnex 24/7 is not a super powerful light.
I can't seem to find Dustin's all in one on his website, do you have a link?
Oh, and the finnex is only one of the lights I'm using and they put out 60 PAR at max setting. The other light is a beamswork full spectrum. That after much research puts out around 28 PAR.

Can you tell us if you're using a drop checker? Otherwise you have no way of knowing how much CO2 is in the tank.
Did you test PAR yourself? 90 seems really high because the finnex 24/7 is not a super powerful light.
I can't seem to find Dustin's all in one on his website, do you have a link?
I also moved all my plants around and am wondering if it was just because the reds were all mixed in with the greens? Because now they look more red.

This is how it looks now. Excuse the cloudy water I just got done.
20181112_180445.jpg

This is how it looks now. Excuse the cloudy water I just got done.
20181112_180445.jpg
Guess it doesn't show as much as in person.
 

Annie59

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I was just doing a bit of looking around on internet and this popped up about red plants. Saying red plants need more iron. I don't really know but thought I would pass this along to you.
Oh nice tank by the way!
 
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danhutchins

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I was just doing a bit of looking around on internet and this popped up about red plants. Saying red plants need more iron. I don't really know but thought I would pass this along to you.
Oh nice tank by the way!
I know they need more but the question is how much to dose? Iron is dangerous for fish and shrimp in high amounts and also causes algae outbreaks if dosing to much. I just don't want to kill my livestock. I haven't been able to find anywhere that gives even a starting point for dosing iron.

I was just doing a bit of looking around on internet and this popped up about red plants. Saying red plants need more iron. I don't really know but thought I would pass this along to you.
Oh nice tank by the way!
Thanks for looking tho. And thanks about the tank. I mess around with it all the time so don't be surprised if I post another pic in a week because I changed it again.
 

Thunder_o_b

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I know they need more but the question is how much to dose? Iron is dangerous for fish and shrimp in high amounts and also causes algae outbreaks if dosing to much. I just don't want to kill my livestock. I haven't been able to find anywhere that gives even a starting point for dosing iron.
I have been using Seachem Iron twice a week for a very long time. No issues with any of my live stock. Shrimp, snails, and fish.
 

Annie59

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Thanks for looking tho. And thanks about the tank. I mess around with it all the time so don't be surprised if I post another pic in a week because I changed it again.

No problem, I enjoy reading about aquariums so when I saw that I just thought I would let you know. I'll research more lol. I find this interesting just in case I try for red plants too!
 
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danhutchins

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No problem, I enjoy reading about aquariums so when I saw that I just thought I would let you know. I'll research more lol. I find this interesting just in case I try for red plants too!
I will also keep searching. I to find it interesting. Everything in my tank I have about 15000 hours of research time on. I just don't remember names of things.
 

Wraithen

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You can load a lot of iron before it gets problematic. You have the trifecta so you can make lighting your limiting factor to keep algae at bay. However, while it does take more iron to make plants red, the iron isn't that big of a factor. Lighting is more important. You can try doubling the iron and see how it goes, just don't add it at the same time as your macros.
 
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danhutchins

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You can load a lot of iron before it gets problematic. You have the trifecta so you can make lighting your limiting factor to keep algae at bay. However, while it does take more iron to make plants red, the iron isn't that big of a factor. Lighting is more important. You can try doubling the iron and see how it goes, just don't add it at the same time as your macros.
Is there a reason why you shouldn't dose with macros? I have heard this before but if they put iron in all in one ferts why is it a problem?
 

Dreypa

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The nutrients will precipitate the solution. Most all in ones have low Fe / micro ratios so they don't precipitate the solution and become unsuable by plants. That's why you'll see people dose EI macro / micro on separate days. So the elements don't counteract each other. Same reason seachem doesn't pile everything in one bottle.

Iron is responsible for helping plants maintain color, it will not cause a yellow plant to turn red as its an immobile nutrient. It will only improve health of new growth.
 
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danhutchins

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The nutrients will precipitate the solution. Most all in ones have low Fe / micro ratios so they don't precipitate the solution and become unsuable by plants. That's why you'll see people dose EI macro / micro on separate days. So the elements don't counteract each other. Same reason seachem doesn't pile everything in one bottle.

Iron is responsible for helping plants maintain color, it will not cause a yellow plant to turn red as its an immobile nutrient. It will only improve health of new growth.
I understand that a plant won't change colors magically and it will only affect new growth. I see how it would counter by mixing but how much should I dose? I put 7 pumps of the iron I got from Dustins Fishtanks and it says not to over do it because it can kill all livestock in the tank and cause algae to get really bad. I have tried to look up how much to dose a 55 gallon heavily planted tank with high light and co2 but I get nothing. Not even a starting point. I just don't want to kill my fish and get a mass amount of algae.
 

Wraithen

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I'm not familiar with his iron but I find it odd he warns it can kill anything other than shrimp. Plenty of tanks get double or triple the correct dosage by volume because their plants will soak it up. Iron uptake is extremely fast. I believe it takes about half an hour for the right chelated iron to be absorbed.
 
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danhutchins

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I'm not familiar with his iron but I find it odd he warns it can kill anything other than shrimp. Plenty of tanks get double or triple the correct dosage by volume because their plants will soak it up. Iron uptake is extremely fast. I believe it takes about half an hour for the right chelated iron to be absorbed.
I also find it strange that there are no dosing instructions. Like 1 pump per 10 gallons. I have no clue how much to dose.

So I contacted Dustins Fishtanks and they were honestly not much help. They told me to dose 2 pumps every day and to watch my plants instantly change color..... I replied that I was dosing 7 pumps every other day with no changes to color. Then they said "think like a plant, you wouldn't only eat steak, the need other nutrients. I replied that on off days of iron I dose Thrive. I haven't heard anything from them since and that was at 9:30am.

So, I just got off the phone with Dustins. He says the echo complete substrate and the finnex planted plus are for plants but said that my beamswork was really good. The guy has some really nice tanks and beautiful plants that he claims have been in his tank for a while but I can't believe this. I told him what I was getting for PAR and he said that PAR is and does nothing for plants. ??????!!!!!!!. I'm so **** confused right now. I can't believe he told me that my $30 light is better than my $200 light. Am I completely missing something here? All my other plants are great just can't figure out why the red ones just turn green. I have tried everything but can't get any red.
 

WetRootsNH

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So, I just got off the phone with Dustins. He says the echo complete substrate and the finnex planted plus are for plants but said that my beamswork was really good. The guy has some really nice tanks and beautiful plants that he claims have been in his tank for a while but I can't believe this. I told him what I was getting for PAR and he said that PAR is and does nothing for plants. ??????!!!!!!!. I'm so confused right now. I can't believe he told me that my $30 light is better than my $200 light. Am I completely missing something here? All my other plants are great just can't figure out why the red ones just turn green. I have tried everything but can't get any red.

https://www.heliospectra.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/pic2_-absorbtion-spectra-300x214.jpg

Chlorophyll a and b make plants green. Carotenoids make plants red (beta carotene, lycopene, etc)
Intensity may not be your problem but spectrum.
It's a bit of a catch 22 though. You need more from the UV, Violet, or Blue range to grow red plants and need red light to display them (they reflect red).

Also, Dustin is very passionate about dirted tanks (me too but I'm not so full of myself as to think that other ways don't work)
Eco complete is fine you'll just have to add some root tabs here and there and water column dose (preferably with dry ferts). ****, you could probably use petrified and crumbled wombat whiskers if you use root tabs.
Also, PAR is literally everything when it comes to plants (but I did notice that he sells lights, doesn't list their PAR, offers no scientific evidence of their ability, and asks a pooload of money for them)
 
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danhutchins

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https://www.heliospectra.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/pic2_-absorbtion-spectra-300x214.jpg

Chlorophyll a and b make plants green. Carotenoids make plants red (beta carotene, lycopene, etc)
Intensity may not be your problem but spectrum.

Also, Dustin is very passionate about dirted tanks (me too but I'm not so full of myself as to think that other ways don't work)
Eco complete is fine you'll just have to add some root tabs here and there and water column dose (preferably with dry ferts). , you could probably use petrified and crumbled wombat whiskers if you use root tabs.
Also, PAR is literally everything when it comes to plants (but I did notice that he sells lights, doesn't list their PAR, offers no scientific evidence of their ability, and asks a pooload of money for them)
So what is the point of a full spectrum light if it's not full spectrum? I guess red plants just are not going to work out for me. I have 2 full spectrum lights on my tank wouldn't that be the right spectrum? I did make the finnex look more pink in hopes that will help.
 

WetRootsNH

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So what is the point of a full spectrum light if it's not full spectrum? I guess red plants just are not going to work out for me. I have 2 full spectrum lights on my tank wouldn't that be the right spectrum? I did make the finnex look more pink in hopes that will help.
Full spectrum is a misnomer in the sense that it appears that all planted tank lights say that and they often have wildly different spectrums.
Things could still work out for you. Maybe it's not spectrum, I'd think with two vastly different lights you'd have decent coverage... can you find the spectrum of those lights and we can take a look at them? If you do have a decent spread maybe we should in fact look at your ferts.
 
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danhutchins

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Full spectrum is a misnomer in the sense that it appears that all planted tank lights say that and they often have wildly different spectrums.
Things could still work out for you. Maybe it's not spectrum, I'd think with two vastly different lights you'd have decent coverage... can you find the spectrum of those lights and we can take a look at them? If you do have a decent spread maybe we should in fact look at your ferts.
Ferts I use Thrive and thrive tabs. As for the actual spectrum of the lights I'm not sure. I have a finnex planted plus 24/7 that I was running on max but just changed it to pinkish. The other is a beamswork full spectrum, I believe its the DA but not sure. I got it a couple years ago. I also dose iron. Both ferts I dose every other day apart from each other. The Thrive I have to dose 2 times the recommended amount for good growth. The iron I'm not sure what to dose but have been doing 7 pumps every other day even though Dustin says 2ML per 10 gallons. If I follow his instructions that's 2 1/2 pumps every other day but if 7 isn't doing it I doubt 2 1/2 would. I also have another pink grow light I could set up as well.
 

WetRootsNH

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Ferts I use Thrive and thrive tabs. As for the actual spectrum of the lights I'm not sure. I have a finnex planted plus 24/7 that I was running on max but just changed it to pinkish. The other is a beamswork full spectrum, I believe its the DA but not sure. I got it a couple years ago. I also dose iron. Both ferts I dose every other day apart from each other. The Thrive I have to dose 2 times the recommended amount for good growth. The iron I'm not sure what to dose but have been doing 7 pumps every other day even though Dustin says 2ML per 10 gallons. If I follow his instructions that's 2 1/2 pumps every other day but if 7 isn't doing it I doubt 2 1/2 would. I also have another pink grow light I could set up as well.
Is your 24/7 an original, SE or CC? I'll try and find spectrum graphs for both of your lights. Also I will look into thrive some more as I'm not familiar with it (though many on the forum are happy with it.) Maybe some adjustments can be made. I'll also go through the rest of your posts to make sure we aren't missing anything.
We will get you there; there is always an answer.

I looked into the base 24/7 as I did not know which you have. It has a decent amount of the blue side of things and while I could not find a graph for the beamswork it appears to have a lot of blue leds and obviously its white would add to that. I think spectrum is out. That being said... it looked like the 24/7 has red but not a ton and the beamswork looks blue heavy. Can you do me a favor?
Take one of your reddest plants out of your tank and hold it near a yellowish incandescent from anywhere in your house... How red does it appear there as compared to in your tank?
Lastly for now, can you put your CO2 on a separate timer from your lights and start it about 30 minutes before your lights come on and stop it about 30 minutes before your lights shut off? That will help with getting the most out of your CO2 and help prevent algae as well.
Also, what are you using as a diffuser/atomizer/reactor?
 

Sergeant Pepper

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Personally I don't believe Eco Complete to be as fertile as it's advertised. I had it in my 29 gallon and honestly I had better luck with Blasting Sand and Root tabs then Eco Complete. My 60 gallon Sanded tank also has a Finnex Planted+ 24/7 light as well. HOWEVER, I have always struggled with stem plants. Regardless of which tank I tried them with. I think if the tank weren't as deep, I wouldn't have as much trouble. I also haven't tried that hard. lol
 

WetRootsNH

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Personally I don't believe Eco Complete to be as fertile as it's advertised. I had it in my 29 gallon and honestly I had better luck with Blasting Sand and Root tabs then Eco Complete. My 60 gallon Sanded tank also has a Finnex Planted+ 24/7 light as well. HOWEVER, I have always struggled with stem plants. Regardless of which tank I tried them with. I think if the tank weren't as deep, I wouldn't have as much trouble. I also haven't tried that hard. lol
The 60 is essentially a deeper 55 dimension wise right? Or is yours crazy pants like a hex or column?
Either way if you don't want to change anything else you can change the type of stem plants you are trying:
Hygrophila corymbosa
Hygrophila polysperma (if it's legal where you are)
Giant ambulia (again if its legal)
Those should all do fine in lower lighting due to increased depth.
Not to derail just like to help...
Anywho, You are absolutely right, ecocomplete is lacking in nutrients but it has a half decent CEC so some of the ferts should be being absorbed by it.
Either way, you can grow plants in almost anything with a combination of root tabs and water column dosing.
 

-Mak-

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Anywho, You are absolutely right, ecocomplete is lacking in nutrients but it has a half decent CEC so some of the ferts should be being absorbed by it.
I'm not sure if they changed it, but apparently (and this was surprising to me too) eco complete and similar substrate flourite have a very very low CEC. I guess that leaves porosity as the only/main positive of them, despite their relatively higher price.


https://sfwcf.com/pam/pam2c.pdf

Then again this source is from 2000 and it is only one source, but I wouldn't expect actual values to be too far off unless Caribsea and Seachem changed their sources of material drastically.
 

WetRootsNH

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I'm not sure if they changed it, but apparently (and this was surprising to me too) eco complete and similar substrate flourite have a very very low CEC. I guess that leaves porosity as the only/main positive of them, despite their relatively higher price.


https://sfwcf.com/pam/pam2c.pdf

Then again this source is from 2000 and it is only one source, but I wouldn't expect actual values to be too far off unless Caribsea and Seachem changed their sources of material drastically.
Ha! Actually, I read the same thing.
I meant half decent like not sand or gravel...
I don't want to steal the jelly out of the OP's donut.
It's still a fine substrate to use though as anyone with BDBS or PFS and root tabs can tell you
 
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danhutchins

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Is your 24/7 an original, SE or CC? I'll try and find spectrum graphs for both of your lights. Also I will look into thrive some more as I'm not familiar with it (though many on the forum are happy with it.) Maybe some adjustments can be made. I'll also go through the rest of your posts to make sure we aren't missing anything.
We will get you there; there is always an answer.
Ya, the finnex is the SE. The Thrive has been fantastic for plant growth. Haven't had any issues until I decided to get red plants. I did add that other grow light today as well. Its actually for non aquatic plants so I doubt it is strong enough but just in case I added it.

I looked into the base 24/7 as I did not know which you have. It has a decent amount of the blue side of things and while I could not find a graph for the beamswork it appears to have a lot of blue leds and obviously its white would add to that. I think spectrum is out. That being said... it looked like the 24/7 has red but not a ton and the beamswork looks blue heavy. Can you do me a favor?
Take one of your reddest plants out of your tank and hold it near a yellowish incandescent from anywhere in your house... How red does it appear there as compared to in your tank?
Lastly for now, can you put your CO2 on a separate timer from your lights and start it about 30 minutes before your lights come on and stop it about 30 minutes before your lights shut off? That will help with getting the most out of your CO2 and help prevent algae as well.
Also, what are you using as a diffuser/atomizer/reactor?
The co2 it on a separate timer already set to come on 1 hour before the lights. I do not us incandescent lights, all lighting in my house is LED.

Personally I don't believe Eco Complete to be as fertile as it's advertised. I had it in my 29 gallon and honestly I had better luck with Blasting Sand and Root tabs then Eco Complete. My 60 gallon Sanded tank also has a Finnex Planted+ 24/7 light as well. HOWEVER, I have always struggled with stem plants. Regardless of which tank I tried them with. I think if the tank weren't as deep, I wouldn't have as much trouble. I also haven't tried that hard. lol
The only issue I'm having is red plants not staying red. Even my other green stem plants are doing very very well. Everything grows like crazy and looks extremely healthy, just can't get the red to stay red.
 

WetRootsNH

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Good, the CO2 thing had me wondering. Still confused why you are having algae issues then though if your CO2 is set up well.
That being said just like fire; aquatic plant growth has a triangle so it must be either your CO2 is not set high enough or your ferts are not perfect.
Let me ponder some more on the CO2 to see if there's an easy way to test/tweak that some more.
And again, ferts, but I'm not sure what on earth you'd be lacking...
That being said, I have to dose way more than recommended amount due to how high my lighting is, maybe you'll have to do the same...

The co2 it on a separate timer already set to come on 1 hour before the lights. I do not us incandescent lights, all lighting in my house is LED.
Are they all hyper white or are some of them a lower kelvin because that would work too. Case in point: my bathroom and kitchen are super white daylight leds and my bedroom and living room are soft white.
I'm just looking for a light with more red as you would be surprised how much more that shows the red.
I gave my friend some ludwigia that I thought looked greenish brown and it looked blood red under his fluorescents. (Like first 5 minutes not new growth)
 
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danhutchins

Well Known
Member
They just look green in any room I'm in with them. They were really red for about 4 days then slowly started to go green. After about a week all the red was gone.

I looked into the base 24/7 as I did not know which you have. It has a decent amount of the blue side of things and while I could not find a graph for the beamswork it appears to have a lot of blue leds and obviously its white would add to that. I think spectrum is out. That being said... it looked like the 24/7 has red but not a ton and the beamswork looks blue heavy. Can you do me a favor?
Take one of your reddest plants out of your tank and hold it near a yellowish incandescent from anywhere in your house... How red does it appear there as compared to in your tank?
Lastly for now, can you put your CO2 on a separate timer from your lights and start it about 30 minutes before your lights come on and stop it about 30 minutes before your lights shut off? That will help with getting the most out of your CO2 and help prevent algae as well.
Also, what are you using as a diffuser/atomizer/reactor?
I'm just using a basic defuser. Co2 tube goes in and little bubbles come out. I have never used an atomizer or reactor.

Good, the CO2 thing had me wondering. Still confused why you are having algae issues then though if your CO2 is set up well.
That being said just like fire; aquatic plant growth has a triangle so it must be either your CO2 is not set high enough or your ferts are not perfect.
Let me ponder some more on the CO2 to see if there's an easy way to test/tweak that some more.
And again, ferts, but I'm not sure what on earth you'd be lacking...
That being said, I have to dose way more than recommended amount due to how high my lighting is, maybe you'll have to do the same...
Wait. I'm not having algae issues. I'm having trouble keeping red plants red. No other issues.
 

Thunder_o_b

Fishlore Legend
Member
So, I just got off the phone with Dustins. He says the echo complete substrate and the finnex planted plus are for plants but said that my beamswork was really good. The guy has some really nice tanks and beautiful plants that he claims have been in his tank for a while but I can't believe this. I told him what I was getting for PAR and he said that PAR is and does nothing for plants. ??????!!!!!!!. I'm so confused right now. I can't believe he told me that my $30 light is better than my $200 light. Am I completely missing something here? All my other plants are great just can't figure out why the red ones just turn green. I have tried everything but can't get any red.
Dustan is out of his mind. Would you like to see photos of my aquariums with the Finnex Plant 24/7 CC lights?
 
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danhutchins

Well Known
Member
Dustan is out of his mind. Would you like to see photos of my aquariums with the Finnex Plant 24/7 CC lights?
Ya that's what I thought. He seriously said that my $30 beamswork was much better than my $200 finnex. I almost crapped myself when he said that and didn't really listen to what he said next, the conversation lasted about 5 minutes afterwards and I have no clue what he said. Wanted to reach through the phone and smack him a couple times. He also told me PAR means nothing and a bunch of other I know was false. He did offer to sell me a light. Wonder if that's why he says mine are .
 

Thunder_o_b

Fishlore Legend
Member
Ya that's what I thought. He seriously said that my $30 beamswork was much better than my $200 finnex. I almost crapped myself when he said that and didn't really listen to what he said next, the conversation lasted about 5 minutes afterwards and I have no clue what he said. Wanted to reach through the phone and smack him a couple times. He also told me PAR means nothing and a bunch of other I know was false. He did offer to sell me a light. Wonder if that's why he says mine are .

This is what the Finnex plant 24/7 cc can do.

_MG_9071-Edit.0.jpg
 
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danhutchins

Well Known
Member
Thank you.


All I can do is assure you that it is not your lights. You and I go about the ferts from two different directions. I just use the Seachem line and no Co2.

That is a pretty aquarium.
Thanks, I liked it much better when there was more color.
 

-Mak-

Fishlore VIP
Member
Were you talking to Dustin himself? PAR is ... what?! That's just... incorrect.

I would take a look at these, possibly some other threads on Barr Report:





The general consensus is that iron needs are pretty much the same across all plants.
 

goldface

Fishlore VIP
Member
Lol, that doesn't sound like Dustin. Then again, it's been a while since I watched his videos on plants and lighting. I may need to refresh my memory.
 

86 ssinit

Fishlore Legend
Member
Not any help on what to do with your plants. But other plants that I’ve have luck with are dwarf lily and crypt Wendit.
1BAA53C3-2531-42D9-AC67-7DE6078E565A.jpeg I’m also using a finnex 24/7 with a vivagrow 24/7. But both are on the 24/7 settings. I’ve had the same results as you with the plants you have. I’m not using CO2.
 
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D

danhutchins

Well Known
Member
Were you talking to Dustin himself? PAR is ... what?! That's just... incorrect.

I would take a look at these, possibly some other threads on Barr Report:





The general consensus is that iron needs are pretty much the same across all plants.
Ya, it was Dustins himself. At first we were texting back and forth. He kept asking the same questions over and over so I was like, all these questions were already answered just scroll up. Then he called me. Guess he didn't want to scroll up.

Lol, that doesn't sound like Dustin. Then again, it's been a while since I watched his videos on plants and lighting. I may need to refresh my memory.
Videos don't tell you anything about a person. I buy plants and ferts from him all the time but starting to wonder if he's the brains behind it all or if there's someone else that feeds him the info for his videos.
 

WetRootsNH

Well Known
Member
They just look green in any room I'm in with them. They were really red for about 4 days then slowly started to go green. After about a week all the red was gone.

I'm just using a basic defuser. Co2 tube goes in and little bubbles come out. I have never used an atomizer or reactor.

Wait. I'm not having algae issues. I'm having trouble keeping red plants red. No other issues.
Oh, sorry about that. I thought I had read that you only have your lights on for 6 hours because any more and you started having algae issues. I must have been mixing up posts.
In that case, you should up your lighting schedule to 8-10 hours daily.
Diffusers works fine but are the least efficient out of the three (diffusers, atomizers, reactors). You may find that you'll need to up your CO2 a little higher than the other methods to get yourself to optimum levels.
Were it me I would:
Increase lighting to 8 hours.
Swap to dry ferts and dose according to EI methods so that you know you are not short on any ferts.
Continue using root tabs as well.
Get a drop checker so that you have a better idea what your CO2 levels are.
Again, that's just what I would do. Outside of those recommendations I guess I'm tapped out for suggestions for now.

Oh, there is one more method I have seen people use, I don't really like this approach but hey, why not inform you of it and let you decide:
Nitrate starvation
People will keep all other things high (other ferts, light, CO2) and dial Nitrates way back. Apparently this causes the chlorophyll to fade a bit which shows the red pigments more as they are left behind.
 
OP
D

danhutchins

Well Known
Member
Oh, sorry about that. I thought I had read that you only have your lights on for 6 hours because any more and you started having algae issues. I must have been mixing up posts.
In that case, you should up your lighting schedule to 8-10 hours daily.
Diffusers works fine but are the least efficient out of the three (diffusers, atomizers, reactors). You may find that you'll need to up your CO2 a little higher than the other methods to get yourself to optimum levels.
Were it me I would:
Increase lighting to 8 hours.
Swap to dry ferts and dose according to EI methods so that you know you are not short on any ferts.
Continue using root tabs as well.
Get a drop checker so that you have a better idea what your CO2 levels are.
Again, that's just what I would do. Outside of those recommendations I guess I'm tapped out for suggestions for now.

Oh, there is one more method I have seen people use, I don't really like this approach but hey, why not inform you of it and let you decide:
Nitrate starvation
People will keep all other things high (other ferts, light, CO2) and dial Nitrates way back. Apparently this causes the chlorophyll to fade a bit which shows the red pigments more as they are left behind.
Not 100% sure how to starve nitrates since it's in ferts. But I did get a drop checker and also bumped up co2. I will increase lighting to 8 hours and go from there. The drop checker shows greenish yellow so about 40ppm I would say. A bit afraid to go any further in fear my fish won't like it.
 

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