Red Cherry Shrimp Motionless.

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
Ran into an issue in the 5.5 gallons. Last night there was explosive activity in the tank with the CPDs and RCS. Same in the morning when I fed them. The CPD's will simply taste and don't eat no matter what I offer them in grounded up portions. Flakes, pellets..etc. The Shrimp ate it all, but there was plenty of left over floating around. I left for six hours and returned. Ammonia was at 0.25 ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0. All shrimp were motionless, alive but motionless. I bumped a few with my finger they barey noticed. They barely noticed the water change. So I moved them in 1 gallon plastic bottles for now. CPD's seem more than happy the shrimp left, they are all out schooling.. yes schooling. Unbelievable.. Unbelievably anti-social fish and difficult to please.

1) What should I feed the CPDs?

2) Why are the shrimp motionless, is it permanent damage from the 0.25 ppm ammonia? I added a lot of prime for the 5.5 gallons. Maybe it was the 80 F temperature? I am not risking the shrimp getting back in the 5.5 gallons. Do I need to "store" them in distilled water instead?

Oh and, the hornwort is chewing away the ammonia in the 20 gallons, keeping it at 0.25 ppm. No sign of beneficial bacteria activity.. yet.
 
Last edited:

Sheldon13

Well Known Member
Messages
840
Reaction score
335
Points
73
Location
Texas
Experience
More than 10 years
What is your filtration and aeration like on this tank? My only experience with motionless shrimp is when I tried (ignorantly) keeping them in still waters with no plants. They got carbon dioxide poisoning. Placed in a high oxygen environment there is a chance to recover.
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
What is your filtration and aeration like on this tank? My only experience with motionless shrimp is when I tried (ignorantly) keeping them in still waters with no plants. They got carbon dioxide poisoning. Placed in a high oxygen environment there is a chance to recover.
Marineland biowheel100, plenty of water flow and aeration. Two full hornowrt plants (5 stems each), 3 moss balls.
 

jjohnwm

Well Known Member
Messages
1,160
Reaction score
1,821
Points
173
Location
Interlake region of Manitoba, Canada
Experience
More than 10 years
I don't have any CPD's, but a friend does and from what I can see they are a very easy, undemanding fish species. Not schooling fish, but with sufficient room they are peaceful, active, and they eat anything as long as it isn't floating on the surface.

5.5 gallons? I can imagine they might be a bit more aggressive if there were multiple males in a tank that small, but I don't see why that would affect their feeding preferences. 80 degrees is about 10 degrees higher than their preferred temperature from what I have been able to read, and several sources have stated that they are difficult to maintain at that high a temperature. Since the shrimp also prefer cooler temps, why on earth do you keep the tank that warm?

And, if the shrimp ate "all" the food, there wouldn't be any left over. This sounds like a case of fairly extreme overfeeding. This is bad in any tank; in a smallish one it is even worse. If you dump in so much food that it is lying around uneaten, it should be removed right now...not six hours from now.
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
I don't have any CPD's, but a friend does and from what I can see they are a very easy, undemanding fish species. Not schooling fish, but with sufficient room they are peaceful, active, and they eat anything as long as it isn't floating on the surface.

5.5 gallons? I can imagine they might be a bit more aggressive if there were multiple males in a tank that small, but I don't see why that would affect their feeding preferences. 80 degrees is about 10 degrees higher than their preferred temperature from what I have been able to read, and several sources have stated that they are difficult to maintain at that high a temperature. Since the shrimp also prefer cooler temps, why on earth do you keep the tank that warm?

And, if the shrimp ate "all" the food, there wouldn't be any left over. This sounds like a case of fairly extreme overfeeding. This is bad in any tank; in a smallish one it is even worse. If you dump in so much food that it is lying around uneaten, it should be removed right now...not six hours from now.
It seems I discovered the source of the ammonia. One CPD died last night and was hidden deep in the hornwort. Tail and dorsal fin chewed up. Either the shrimp ate that part or the other CPD nipped on it.

As for the over feeding, I'm trying to get them to eat. I have observed that they are not interested in what I offer. I have crushed the flakes and the pellets and sunk them. Some swallow only to spit it back out. Besides witht he shrimp they didn't come out to eat, even though some seem hungry and jolting towards the food.. Only to not eat it.

I will remove the heater. I put it in because I did water changes and the water was too cold when I added it.

What about the ammonia at 0.25 ppm? I read shrimp are not supposed to be anywhere near it.
 

jjohnwm

Well Known Member
Messages
1,160
Reaction score
1,821
Points
173
Location
Interlake region of Manitoba, Canada
Experience
More than 10 years
If you remove the heater, or at least turn it down to around 70 degrees, you can avoid temperature swings during water changes by simply keeping a bucket of treated water next to the tank overnight so that the temperature of both tank and bucket will stabilize at room temperature.

Neither the shrimp, now anything else, should be subjected to 0.25 ammonia readings. Some fish will tolerate it better than others, and shrimp are more sensitive, but it is too high and will continue to spike if you continue to overfeed. If the fish won't eat a little food, they certainly are not likely to eat it if you just keep dumping more in. In this case I would not feed anything at all for a couple of days, and get the ammonia under control with water changes. After a bit of fasting, the CPD should be hungry and ready to eat. You might find they will be more interested in frozen brine shrimp or bloodworms, as long as the individual particles of food are not too large for them. Put in only a tiny bit to observe their reaction before shovelling too much in.

I'll leave it up to one of our shrimp aficianados to pass judgment on the idea of plopping the shrimp into separate bottles. Good water quality is difficult to maintain in a 5gallon tank; it's pretty much impossible to maintain it in a small, unfiltered, unaerated bottle.
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
I'll leave it up to one of our shrimp aficianados to pass judgment on the idea of plopping the shrimp into separate bottles. Good water quality is difficult to maintain in a 5gallon tank; it's pretty much impossible to maintain it in a small, unfiltered, unaerated bottle.
Thanks, I'll make arrangements for the food and keep an eye on them. In regards to the shrimp, I have read a few cases where they kept them in buckets for some time. My reasoning is simple, temporary relocation till I drop down ammonia levels in the 5.5 gallon tank or they go in the Black Ruby Barb tank. So I chose to put them in the 1 gallon bottles (which I cut half way), for a night or two. I know to some of you it sounds cruel, but I am working with limited options and animals can survive even in extreme (to humans) situations. Either the ammonia will get to them or the bigger juvenile Black Ruby Barb will.. and it seems I have 4 males and 1 female, because they just started to change colors and the aggression has increased.

Given that, I know the 5.5 gallons will be challenging to cycle but I will try to sustain minimal losses. But application varies from person to person, and you will hear 10 different opinions on the same subject. I read all advice I get and try to apply it. Some of it doesn't work for me, some does. I have had saltwater pondfish (yes the pond was connected to the sea) and shrimp in the past when I was a kid growing up in the countryside.. and I know shrimp are tough. I haven't worked with them up close before. I don't know much about these Asian shrimp and fish (my current tropical fish and shrimp), but in Europe, they are tough breeds. At first, I thought the fish would have problems and not the shrimp, because of this previous experience. But it seems the only ones who are doing well for sure are the Black Ruby Barbs. Besides a water change, I am not worried at all about them in the 20-gallon tank and I feed them twice and thrice a day and yet the ammonia is 0.25 ppm and under. Maybe it's the plants, maybe the Marineland biowheel 350 also helps evaporate ammonia with the flow. It's these little CPD's with the tiny mouths that frustrated me with their spitting of the food, so I thought to drop a little extra for them to find. Seems too dangerous to do in the 5.5 gallon. I'll feed them once every 3 days from now on. But I have read online that they can starve themselves.. But like I said, everyone has different experiences and different opinions.
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
Update. I did an other water change in the 5.5 gallon and added the shrimp back, they are moving along just fine. It must have been the temperature or the high ammonia (0.25 ppm). I added a shrimp in the Black Ruby Barb tank and watched it being chased down by the barbs so I took it out. It was one of the large ones too. So I won't be adding them in the 20 gallons even though the hornwort, ventilation, etc.. has been getting rid of 0.25 ppm ammonia making levels almost undetectable. So I will just stick with 75% water changes in the 5.5 gallons daily just to be safe and hope the recently added hornwort (two batches, same as int he 20 gallons) eats up what ever ammonia and nitrite is produced.

P.s. One of my Black Ruby Barbs is such a @#$%!, he (because it's definetly a male) is chasing everyone around and disturbing the peace of the school. I might place him in timeout if this continues for a few more days. What I love about Black Ruby Barbs is that you can see their mood in their color. If they are pale without strippes they are very very scared. If they are dark in color they are aggressive.
 
Last edited:

richie.p

Fishlore VIP
Messages
4,768
Reaction score
2,615
Points
463
Location
Wales UK
Experience
5 to 10 years
@jjohnwm is giving you good advise that you should take into consideration, by adding extra prime to any shrimp tank is no good it becomes toxic with to much and symptoms you describe motionless is the sign, putting cold water into and shrimp tank is lethal and leads to shock then failed moult and death, 80f is another problem 72ish ideal, 75% water changes daily your asking for trouble, moving shrimp from tank to tank or pot without dripping will result in shock and again possible death, dont make the mistake that shrimp are hardier as in the picture you are giving, they are not and will only take so much before they give up,all this this food you are throwing in is just compiling problems on top of already made problems, step back a minute think about the advise people are giving and make a plan, until you slow up stabilise your tank you will have problems
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
@jjohnwm is giving you good advise that you should take into consideration, by adding extra prime to any shrimp tank is no good it becomes toxic with to much and symptoms you describe motionless is the sign, putting cold water into and shrimp tank is lethal and leads to shock then failed moult and death, 80f is another problem 72ish ideal, 75% water changes daily your asking for trouble, moving shrimp from tank to tank or pot without dripping will result in shock and again possible death, dont make the mistake that shrimp are hardier as in the picture you are giving, they are not and will only take so much before they give up,all this this food you are throwing in is just compiling problems on top of already made problems, step back a minute think about the advise people are giving and make a plan, until you slow up stabilise your tank you will have problems
Noted. Will take it slow and plan ahead. Thanks!

@jjohnwm 75% water changes daily your asking for trouble
How often and how much should I do for water changes. I noticed the shrimp were inactive again after 9 hours of activity. So I assume my ammonia rose and did a 40% water change with water I had next to the tank.. (well not exactly next to it because I have no space. They are on a book shelf). And after I changed the water the shrimp became active again (as well as the fish). So I am assuming I need to change water twice a day to keep them alive through the cycle. Or would it be better to do 10% water changes after x amount of hours. Any thoughts? One of my shrimp molted so I am assuming they enjoy the morning water parameters. I removed the molt for fear of ammonia sppike.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mxracer6y

New Member
Messages
6
Reaction score
9
Points
1
Update. I did an other water change in the 5.5 gallon and added the shrimp back, they are moving along just fine. It must have been the temperature or the high ammonia (0.25 ppm). I added a shrimp in the Black Ruby Barb tank and watched it being chased down by the barbs so I took it out. It was one of the large ones too. So I won't be adding them in the 20 gallons even though the hornwort, ventilation, etc.. has been getting rid of 0.25 ppm ammonia making levels almost undetectable. So I will just stick with 75% water changes in the 5.5 gallons daily just to be safe and hope the recently added hornwort (two batches, same as int he 20 gallons) eats up what ever ammonia and nitrite is produced.

P.s. One of my Black Ruby Barbs is such a @#$%!, he (because it's definetly a male) is chasing everyone around and disturbing the peace of the school. I might place him in timeout if this continues for a few more days. What I love about Black Ruby Barbs is that you can see their mood in their color. If they are pale without strippes they are very very scared. If they are dark in color they are aggressive.
Daily 75% water changes is most likely going to kill all of your shrimp. Shrimp like consistency. The more you move them back and forth and mess with their water, the more stressed they become and will most definitely die.... You shouldn't have added anything to that tank until it was properly cycled. You can go to your local fish store and pick up some Seachem - Stability to help cycle the tank faster and clean up the ammonia. Its essentially beneficial bacteria in a bottle
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
Daily 75% water changes is most likely going to kill all of your shrimp. Shrimp like consistency. The more you move them back and forth and mess with their water, the more stressed they become and will most definitely die.... You shouldn't have added anything to that tank until it was properly cycled. You can go to your local fish store and pick up some Seachem - Stability to help cycle the tank faster and clean up the ammonia. Its essentially beneficial bacteria in a bottle
Though I do agree with you. The daily water changes have kept them alive. I don't do 75% but 25% daily water changes and they have been fine. I have a bottle of beneficial bacteria but it's not seachem stability or tetra safestart. So far I noticed that it doesn't work. I will get my hands on one sometime soon, because the bottle I have does not work. Thank you for your reply.
 

tjander

Well Known Member
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
353
Points
128
Experience
More than 10 years
So I have one piece of advise for you STOP! Your chasing your tail. Get your 5.5 tank in order. Stable waster parameters, fully cycled, get you PH GH and KH into spec for the shrimp. lower the temp by at least 5 degrees-9 would be better. Do all of these things slowly. IMO, I would start getting these things in order right now, but do it slowly, things take time. If your shrimp and fish survive great if not then once everything is stable you can add more and call it a learning experience. But for the love of God, stop chasing things adding chemicals and frequent water changes will never net you a stable tank.
IRT the CPD not eating no big deal they can easily go a week with out eating. It’s not going to kill them, unlike the crazy stuff you have been doing.
I am sorry if this is harsh, but honestly, your going to kill everything in the tank if you you don’t slow down and approach things logically.
 

jjohnwm

Well Known Member
Messages
1,160
Reaction score
1,821
Points
173
Location
Interlake region of Manitoba, Canada
Experience
More than 10 years
So I have one piece of advise for you STOP! Your chasing your tail. Get your 5.5 tank in order. Stable waster parameters, fully cycled, get you PH GH and KH into spec for the shrimp. lower the temp by at least 5 degrees-9 would be better. Do all of these things slowly. IMO, I would start getting these things in order right now, but do it slowly, things take time. If your shrimp and fish survive great if not then once everything is stable you can add more and call it a learning experience. But for the love of God, stop chasing things adding chemicals and frequent water changes will never net you a stable tank.
IRT the CPD not eating no big deal they can easily go a week with out eating. It’s not going to kill them, unlike the crazy stuff you have been doing.
I am sorry if this is harsh, but honestly, your going to kill everything in the tank if you you don’t slow down and approach things logically.
This answer is so perfect that it should be somehow stickied to use as a response for about 30% of the threads on Fishlore. Patience is essential; it's easy to picture many of these OP's standing hunched over a 5-gallon tank, a mysterious bottle clenched in each hand, grimacing and growling "Serenity NOW!!!"
 

tjander

Well Known Member
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
353
Points
128
Experience
More than 10 years
I didn’t mean to be harsh. But the way I see things people get over zealous and then fail. And once they fail they stop altogether and the hobby loses someone who could be a great asset. It’s a shame that people quite after the first setback.
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
So I have one piece of advise for you STOP! Your chasing your tail. Get your 5.5 tank in order. Stable waster parameters, fully cycled, get you PH GH and KH into spec for the shrimp. lower the temp by at least 5 degrees-9 would be better. Do all of these things slowly. IMO, I would start getting these things in order right now, but do it slowly, things take time. If your shrimp and fish survive great if not then once everything is stable you can add more and call it a learning experience. But for the love of God, stop chasing things adding chemicals and frequent water changes will never net you a stable tank.
IRT the CPD not eating no big deal they can easily go a week with out eating. It’s not going to kill them, unlike the crazy stuff you have been doing.
I am sorry if this is harsh, but honestly, your going to kill everything in the tank if you you don’t slow down and approach things logically.
It's not harsh.

So, I'll stop feeding for a week and changing the water every day. What's to be done with the rising ammonia? I would assume it rises by itself. Also I can only test pH and decrease the temperature. I don't know what kit you use for GH and KH. My API kit does not include that, and I wouldn't know how to increase or decrease GK and KH. Any info on this? Thanks.

The 5.5 gallon has green and brown algae issues and I am noticing snails which game with the hornwort. So I will wait before I add an assassin snail because of more bioload. I am patient, the issue is how much of a water change should be done and over how many days, to be considered "stable" for the shrimp. Personally, I don't see this tank cycling any time soon, so I know it could even take two months. But that's not the issue, the issue is how much water should I change and over what period. Ammonia runs between 0.0-0.25 ppm maybe 0.50 for a margin of error. Sure I can go buy a drip and keep it in a bucket of water and slowly drip it inside, while having an other drip to remove water at the same time. That idea can work.
 

tjander

Well Known Member
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
353
Points
128
Experience
More than 10 years
Use prime to keep your ammonia down. Dose prime on day one, 10-15% water change day two, then prime again days three do nothing day 4 Prime day 5 10-15% water change day 6 prime day 7

Note that a 5 g tank needs 1/10 of a cap of prime. 1 cap is good for 50 g. So I think you can do a 1/4 of a cap safely as 1/10 is hard to measure.

IRT GH and KH these are a separate kit from API. Would be good to have on hand.

What is your Ph reading now in your tank and what is your PH from your tap after the water sits for 24 hours with an air stone in it if possibly if not just after 24 hours?

What do you have in your tank at this time? Fish and plants?
 

TheFishmonger

Valued Member
Messages
199
Reaction score
47
Points
38
Location
The Big Apple
Experience
5 to 10 years
Use prime to keep your ammonia down. Dose prime on day one, 10-15% water change day two, then prime again days three do nothing day 4 Prime day 5 10-15% water change day 6 prime day 7

Note that a 5 g tank needs 1/10 of a cap of prime. 1 cap is good for 50 g. So I think you can do a 1/4 of a cap safely as 1/10 is hard to measure.

IRT GH and KH these are a separate kit from API. Would be good to have on hand.

What is your Ph reading now in your tank and what is your PH from your tap after the water sits for 24 hours with an air stone in it if possibly if not just after 24 hours?

What do you have in your tank at this time? Fish and plants?
Sounds cool, thanks. I use the API tubes to add prime based on the dose seachem recommends. The pH of the tank is 6.6- 7.4. I will have to let water stand out for 24 hours to let you now that range. I usually add it directly from the tap. To answer your other questions, I have 3 moss balls, 2 larger hornwort plants, 5 celestial pearl danios and I counted 8 small "hitchhicker" snails that came with the plants. I don't want to get rid of the snails yet. Let them reproduce to be food for the assassin snail that I will add when the tank cycles.
 

tjander

Well Known Member
Messages
1,259
Reaction score
353
Points
128
Experience
More than 10 years
If you keep an eye on your ammonia you should be fine but do not add anything else to the tank until you cycle it. Give the CPD a few days then crush up the flakes really fine and add just a pinch they should eat it. I feed my CPD’s ever other day just once a day. If they don’t eat it you might want to try a 1/4 of a baby brine shrimp frozen cube.
 
Toggle Sidebar

Dream Tank Type?

  • Freshwater

    Votes: 16 66.7%
  • Saltwater

    Votes: 9 37.5%




Top Bottom