Reasons You Shouldn't Take Fish Medication.

Jellibeen

Member
I stumbled upon this article while researching antibiotics for shrimp. Turns out, I have humans who abuse fish medicine to thank for the difficulty in finding things like Doxycycline in stores.

 

wodesorel

Member
It also shows why it's a gamble to use these meds on the fish they're intended for.
 

Lacey D

Member
Jellibeen said:
I stumbled upon this article while researching antibiotics for shrimp. Turns out, I have humans who abuse fish medicine to thank for the difficulty in finding things like Doxycycline in stores.

I only heard recently about people buying aquarium antibiotics when I found out that a friend had done it. Because they didn't have health insurance, they didn't even go to a clinic to see if antibiotics would HELP what they had (it sounded like a bad cold, so no, it wouldn't have).

But this... this is not right: "But for now, Young describes the field of fish medicine as being in its infancy. He likens the situation to the early days of the livestock industry, when farmers could purchase a range of medications without a prescription. "We're still figuring out what works for fish and what kind of diseases we're treating," he says."
I have been in the hobby for over 20 years, and antibiotics and antifungals have ALWAYS been available for fish through petstores, and the fish diseases which responded to antibiotics were well known then, and have only been better understood since. Like in humans and livestock, fish antibiotics have probably been overused in the hobby. I know I used them a few times in the early days, instead of treating the underlying stocking and water quality conditions. But outside of amateurs, WHEN you should use them has long been known. And I have never heard anyone complain of quality issues. The types if antibiotics used in the hobby are dirt cheap to manufacture and are off-patent (or never had patents because back then researchers thought it was ethical to NOT make a profit off of life-saving medications!), so although the manufacture processes might not be up to human pharma standards, there is no real incentive to NOT follow the industry formulas and manufacture processes they have been working under since the 50's. But of course, when has that stopped anyone >_<
 

WTFish?

Member
When I lived in California I couldn’t get any fish meds/antibiotics, go figure, everything is illegal there.
Once I was at some shady flea market in the ghetto that had a questionable “pet” section, including fish. There was a sign that said ask about fish medication, so I did. The man went to the back and brought out all kinds of things that are readily available here in Arizona pet stores. I bought a couple things, looking over my shoulder like I was buying crack. Haha.

Edit...I should add that these meds were in fact for my aquarium, not me. Lol
 

bgclarke

Member
As of December 1, 2018 all over the counter fish antibiotics have been banned from sale in Canada.
You now need to get a prescription from a veterinarian, if you can find one that specialises in our floating friends.
 

Lacey D

Member
bgclarke said:
As of December 1, 2018 all over the counter fish antibiotics have been banned from sale in Canada.
You now need to get a prescription from a veterinarian, if you can find one that specialises in our floating friends.
That's always the hard part, isn't it? I called a local exotic vet that claims it also has an aquatic specialty, and had to leave a message (I thought it was during business hours, but I guess I was wrong?). I asked for a consultation on why I kept losing endler to certain set of symptoms which have been termed "Livebearer Wasting Disease" by some--I was hoping to get an idea of price and of what they would need. Still haven't heard back from them, and my fish seem to be recovering, with no further loses since I finished an anti-parasitic treatment.
 

david1978

Member
Now for me I'm the other way around. With the meds I'm on I get constant infections. So if needed I just share mine with the fish.
 

Lacey D

Member
david1978 said:
Now for me I'm the other way around. With the meds I'm on I get constant infections. So if needed I just share mine with the fish.
Sorry for your health issues, but that made me giggle. They're getting the expensive stuff!! Hope your fish stay healthy, and so do you!
 

david1978

Member
No worries. I try to make the best of it.
 
  • Thread Starter

Jellibeen

Member
Lacey D said:
I only heard recently about people buying aquarium antibiotics when I found out that a friend had done it. Because they didn't have health insurance, they didn't even go to a clinic to see if antibiotics would HELP what they had (it sounded like a bad cold, so no, it wouldn't have).

But this... this is not right: "But for now, Young describes the field of fish medicine as being in its infancy. He likens the situation to the early days of the livestock industry, when farmers could purchase a range of medications without a prescription. "We're still figuring out what works for fish and what kind of diseases we're treating," he says."
I have been in the hobby for over 20 years, and antibiotics and antifungals have ALWAYS been available for fish through petstores, and the fish diseases which responded to antibiotics were well known then, and have only been better understood since. Like in humans and livestock, fish antibiotics have probably been overused in the hobby. I know I used them a few times in the early days, instead of treating the underlying stocking and water quality conditions. But outside of amateurs, WHEN you should use them has long been known. And I have never heard anyone complain of quality issues. The types if antibiotics used in the hobby are dirt cheap to manufacture and are off-patent (or never had patents because back then researchers thought it was ethical to NOT make a profit off of life-saving medications!), so although the manufacture processes might not be up to human pharma standards, there is no real incentive to NOT follow the industry formulas and manufacture processes they have been working under since the 50's. But of course, when has that stopped anyone >_<
We actually had someone on here recently who lost fish due to improperly labeled or manufactured medication. It does happen. Because fish medication isn't regulated by the FDA, there was no one to report it to.

On the one hand, it would be nice to be able to have experts to examine and diagnose fish. On the other, that would be much more expensive. I love my fish and am happy to spend money on good medication for them. However, I really can't afford a $300 vet visit every time they get sick. It's also very unfortunate that these meds are available only by perscription in places where you can't easily get a vet who specializes in fish.
 

AquaticJ

Member
I feel like there’s not a significant amount of people doing this for it to justify banning all fish antibiotics. Furthermore, I’d love to see any scientific evidence that shows people taking fish medicine is causing widespread resistance. I also like how they tried to make not being regulated by the FDA some kind of proof of evil. My multivitamins aren’t regulated by the FDA either lol. Are people who take fish antibiotics stupid? Absolutely. Are there any recorded deaths of humans from doing this? Nope. Are these extremely useful when used correctly on your fish? Absolutely.

And about the person who killed their fish from “improperly labeled medication”, how do you know it wasn’t just from the camallanus worms?
 

WinterSoldier.

Member
If you have sick fish you are probably doing something horribly wrong. Your water might be off, or your temperature. I have found that CLEAN WATER is the best cure, a proper diet, and correct conditions are probably the best things to cure a fish. I don't usually use ick meds, I just turn up the temperature, and do water changes, I haven't had ich for awhile now. For dropsy I do clean water, epsom salts and peas.

I think home meds work better.
 

david1978

Member
Your not always doing something wrong and end up with sick fish. Some come that way or get something from the food we give them. There are a few we can give them and we can get from them.
 

AquaticJ

Member
If you constantly have sick fish, then yes you’re doing something wrong. But like David said, there’s ways of getting fish sick that aren’t your fault.
 
  • Thread Starter

Jellibeen

Member
AquaticJ said:
I feel like there’s not a significant amount of people doing this for it to justify banning all fish antibiotics. Furthermore, I’d love to see any scientific evidence that shows people taking fish medicine is causing widespread resistance. I also like how they tried to make not being regulated by the FDA some kind of proof of evil. My multivitamins aren’t regulated by the FDA either lol. Are people who take fish antibiotics stupid? Absolutely. Are there any recorded deaths of humans from doing this? Nope. Are these extremely useful when used correctly on your fish? Absolutely.

And about the person who killed their fish from “improperly labeled medication”, how do you know it wasn’t just from the camallanus worms?
I was wondering about how accurate the claims of causing widespread resistence were. It seems like the people taking fish medication are only potentially harming themselves. Oh, and harming our fish since they are making medication harder to acquire.

If you read the thread thoroughly, you will see how the packaging gave incorrect measurements. The person got a scale, measured by weight (as opposed to using the scoop provided by the company), and found out that the first package of Levamisole they bought actually instructed them to add far more than the recommended dosage.

BrownsFan#1 said:
If you have sick fish you are probably doing something horribly wrong. Your water might be off, or your temperature. I have found that CLEAN WATER is the best cure, a proper diet, and correct conditions are probably the best things to cure a fish. I don't usually use ick meds, I just turn up the temperature, and do water changes, I haven't had ich for awhile now. For dropsy I do clean water, epsom salts and peas.

I think home meds work better.
Sometimes fish contract diseases outside of our control. Sometimes we do something wrong, fish get sick, and we need to treat them using something stronger than clean water. This is comparable to people getting illnesses despite eating well, exercising, etc. No matter how well you take care of your body, there's still a chance you may get sick. Some factors are simply out of our control. I don't think medication is an alternative to clean water, proper diet, and good conditions, but I do think medication has a place in fish health (and in human health, for that matter).
 

david1978

Member
I try to live in a bubble and it still doesn't help. Lol
 

AquaticJ

Member
Jellibeen said:
I was wondering about how accurate the claims of causing widespread resistence were. It seems like the people taking fish medication are only potentially harming themselves. Oh, and harming our fish since they are making medication harder to acquire.

If you read the thread thoroughly, you will see how the packaging gave incorrect measurements. The person got a scale, measured by weight (as opposed to using the scoop provided by the company), and found out that the first package of Levamisole they bought actually instructed them to add far more than the recommended dosage.



Sometimes fish contract diseases outside of our control. Sometimes we do something wrong, fish get sick, and we need to treat them using something stronger than clean water. This is comparable to people getting illnesses despite eating well, exercising, etc. No matter how well you take care of your body, there's still a chance you may get sick. Some factors are simply out of our control. I don't think medication is an alternative to clean water, proper diet, and good conditions, but I do think medication has a place in fish health (and in human health, for that matter).
As fishy as that is, it could’ve been cut differently, which mean there’s less Levamisole per gram. You have to remember that particular company literally makes that by hand in relatively small quantities. You have to overdose a pretty significant amount to cause harm. If you dosed an amount lethal to fish, those worms would’ve been gone right then and there.
 

WinterSoldier.

Member
Jellibeen said:
I was wondering about how accurate the claims of causing widespread resistence were. It seems like the people taking fish medication are only potentially harming themselves. Oh, and harming our fish since they are making medication harder to acquire.

If you read the thread thoroughly, you will see how the packaging gave incorrect measurements. The person got a scale, measured by weight (as opposed to using the scoop provided by the company), and found out that the first package of Levamisole they bought actually instructed them to add far more than the recommended dosage.



Sometimes fish contract diseases outside of our control. Sometimes we do something wrong, fish get sick, and we need to treat them using something stronger than clean water. This is comparable to people getting illnesses despite eating well, exercising, etc. No matter how well you take care of your body, there's still a chance you may get sick. Some factors are simply out of our control. I don't think medication is an alternative to clean water, proper diet, and good conditions, but I do think medication has a place in fish health (and in human health, for that matter).

Well.....if you keep you fish in proper conditions there is less of a chance that they will contract an illness that would require a special treatment
 

CanadianFishFan

Member
bgclarke said:
As of December 1, 2018 all over the counter fish antibiotics have been banned from sale in Canada.
You now need to get a prescription from a veterinarian, if you can find one that specialises in our floating friends.
Thanks for the info!
 

gorejusdesign

Member
Jellibeen said:
I stumbled upon this article while researching antibiotics for shrimp. Turns out, I have humans who abuse fish medicine to thank for the difficulty in finding things like Doxycycline in stores.

Well I Think it's not so much as ordinary people taking fish medicine as it is the doomsday preppers/survivalists that are purchasing it to stock up for "End Of The World As We Know It"
I am aware of quite a few people that are doing that.
 

Wraithen

Member
gorejusdesign said:
Well I Think it's not so much as ordinary people taking fish medicine as it is the doomsday preppers/survivalists that are purchasing it to stock up for "End Of The World As We Know It"
I am aware of quite a few people that are doing that.
You would be surprised. My lfs will only sell small quantities of antibiotics now just so they don't continuously run out. People will buy boxes of bottles online for there "fish strep throat". Just check out some of the reviews.
 

happyscrub

Member
I took bird antibiotics before. I got a nasty infection and didn't have insurance. I wasn't **** to pay some doctor a hundred+ just to give me antibiotics. Doing research, it's safe depending on what you get.

A lot of animal pills are made in the same place that humans are. They will have the same pill code on them which means they are identical (which they would have to be because of regulations).
 

toosie

Member
Jellibeen said:
I stumbled upon this article while researching antibiotics for shrimp. Turns out, I have humans who abuse fish medicine to thank for the difficulty in finding things like Doxycycline in stores.

I believe this is the exact reason fish antibiotics have become non existant here in Canada. We use to have all sorts, but due to the ease of access and reasonable prices, people were resorting to using them. But not just that... the use of antibiotics and absorbing the antibiotics through the skin, may attribute to the development of super bacteria that become resistant to antibiotics. So the more a person is exposed to antibiotics, the less effective antibiotics can become. And too many people want to take antibiotics for everything...even the common cold. So...yeah, apparently the fish antibiotics were being abused, so we no longer have them.
 

david1978

Member
Wait. I heard you had free health care in Canada. If its free why would they buy fish meds?
 

gorejusdesign

Member
I have a friend that has taken fishmox for an ear infection. By the way it is true as happyscrub has said that the animal medication like fishmox are made in the same place as for humans with the same pill codes.
 

toosie

Member
david1978 said:
Wait. I heard you had free health care in Canada. If its free why would they buy fish meds?
Health care is free but medications are not free (various insurances cover portions but most people still have to pay deductibles), and doctors won't prescribe antibiotics willy-nilly like the use to in the 70's. But people still want an antibiotic for everything. We live in a society of...just take a pill, cuz a pill will make everything better.
 

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