Re-entry to shrimp. Need advice on Neo & Caridina combos

Huckleberry77
  • #1
About 7 years ago I successfully kept a colony of Yellow Neocaridina shrimp in a 2.5 gallon repurposed betta tank. I knew nothing much about their care and they thrived in my tap water with minimal care. I didn’t like that tank setup and eventually gave it away.

Now I am intrigued by blue dream shrimp and ordered 10 homebred shrimp online. I have a 3 gallon cube (Petsmart Shrimp and Plant Oasis). I can stuff the filter with cycled media and add driftwood and plants already covered in biofilm and algae so I am planning to quick-cycle this tank. The shrimp should arrive by Thursday or Fri. My tap water comes out with pH at 8is but settles to 7.2 after 24 hours. TDS is 80-90-ish out of the tap. Zero ammonia, zero nitrite, zero nitrate. I don’t have a fresh GH/Kh test but they are quite low/soft water. My german blue rams breed in my tap water.

I would love any advice/mentorship on how to be successful with this setup. After the blue dreams are settled in and plants are growing, I would like to add a contrasting color of non-hybridizing shrimp. I imagine a caridina species in yellow, red, orange, or a pattern would look nice. I would like recommendations for what caridina shrimp would live in my setup. I would prefer something that I can raise in my tapwater. I would rather not have to use RO and remineralize it. However, that is an option.
 
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StarGirl
  • #2
What about some Rili shrimps instead of Caradina? I think they may "survive" in the same conditions but sometimes wont breed in not favorable conditions. I think they are kind of hard to mix because of different parameters.
 
Blacksheep1
  • #3
Hi huckleberry !

7.2 sounds perfect for neo’s. I know some have every success moving shrimp into new tanks ( I have a theory on this , more later !) but I recommend you try to season your tank as much as possible . I say this because I know quite a few folk struggle to keep / breed blues specifically, no idea why. The plants/ filter will all help , but a well matured tank is best.

My theory is that when people plop and drop shrimp between tanks that those shrimp were bred in their water / tanks already , therefore are more accustomed to what they already have . If they did that with fresh shrimp then they’d struggle more. Not 100% of the time obviously and I have zero science to back my theory :D

Crystal reds and black bees can , theoretically , be kept with neos but may breed. If you don’t want to use ro and don’t know your gh I can’t really recommend it though. A Gh much below 5 and the neos will struggle to moult. Gh above 5 the caridinas won’t breed. Any other neo colour will interbreed , which is fine if you don’t mind the wacky surprise colours and some eventual wood brown colours, which I think can be lovely too if that’s your thing !

If recommend amano shrimp but not in a 3G , with neos too. Your parameters may spike quite quickly in that size. Whatever you choose just be sure to acclimate :)

edit— neo’s can go down in pH more (6.5 is the lowest ) but without ro water your 7.2 is likely going to cause some issues with caridina. Whatever the pH , stability is more important than “perfect” as long as it’s within range.

edit #2 — I re read and you’ve already ordered the blue dreams ? Can you set the tank up today to give it them the best chance ? Any moss in another tank you can add too ? I know some aren’t a fan of it , I am and use it , but bacter ae will help grow biofilm faster. Add a tiny amount once you have a berried shrimp for the babies to eat too. Once you set the tank up leave the lights on as much as possible until the shrimp are added.
 
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Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
What about some Rili shrimps instead of Caradina? I think they may "survive" in the same conditions but sometimes wont breed in not favorable conditions. I think they are kind of hard to mix because of different parameters.
I already ordered blue dream Neos. If I add Rillis won’t they hybridize with the blue dream?
 
StarGirl
  • #5
I already ordered blue dream Neos. If I add Rillis won’t they hybridize with the blue dream?
Probably. I dont know much about Caradinas though. I just always thought that they were too different to be together. Maybe richiep will have a more explanatory answer.

Edit.....sorry Blacksheep1 I missed your answer!
 
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Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
edit #2 — I re read and you’ve already ordered the blue dreams ? Can you set the tank up today to give it them the best chance ?
Any moss in another tank you can add too ? I know some aren’t a fan of it , I am and use it , but bacter ae will help grow biofilm faster. Add a tiny amount once you have a berried shrimp for the babies to eat too. Once you set the tank up leave the lights on as much as possible until the shrimp are added.
Okay! Thank you for the awesome advice Blacksheep1! I set up the tank and added plants, cholla, driftwood, decomposing botanicals, subwassertang, and Christmas Moss. This is by no means my final aquascape but I wanted to get some bacteria going in the tank. I added a sponge from my 75 to the filter to help out as well. I can work on developing the aquascape over the next few days. I will leave the lights on 24/7 until the shrimp arrive!
I struggled to choose a substrate that would flatter the blue dream shrimp. I decided on this quartz gravel by Aqua Naturals. They call it Flamingo!
1D3DD790-0AF6-439D-BBE9-BD2D46AEDF37.jpeg
blacksheep- I do have RO water and if I add Cardinas down the road I could gradually start cutting my tapwater with RO to prepare for them.

I have a green water culture outside that I am growing for fry. I wonder if I should pour some of that into my shrimp tank?
Blacksheep1 why yes, I DO have some moss
053EA379-F552-4FE1-89A6-2EB32B8E622D.jpeg
 
Blacksheep1
  • #7
You’re off to a great start !!! I wouldn’t start doing anything with ro , not without knowing kh/ gh and tds. Those are your guides … I can’t recommend anything without knowing those . Just take your time acclimating them when they arrive , I’m assuming they’ll be shipped so have everything set up ready to go to get them out of the bag as quickly as possible . A drop of prime won’t hurt either whilst the waters being diluted :)
 
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richiep
  • #8
You won't get caradina in straight red,yellow, orange those would be neocaradina, with your tds down to 80-90 i would get your gh tested by your lfs, may be you could go straight to caradina, the fact you have ro water id think of changing your water straight to ro this way you will have total controll especially when its a 3 gallon, getting your parameters stable at this stage with tap water may be trying
 
ProudPapa
  • #9
I already ordered blue dream Neos. If I add Rillis won’t they hybridize with the blue dream?

Yes, they would.

To answer your original post, the two species water parameters have such a small overlap I wouldn't recommend trying it.
 
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Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
Yes, they would.

To answer your original post, the two species water parameters have such a small overlap I wouldn't recommend trying it.
Thank you. Is that true of Tangerine Tigers or Red Tigers? I thought those might work.
You won't get caradina in straight red,yellow, orange those would be neocaradina, with your tds down to 80-90 i would get your gh tested by your lfs, may be you could go straight to caradina, the fact you have ro water id think of changing your water straight to ro this way you will have total controll especially when its a 3 gallon, getting your parameters stable at this stage with tap water may be trying
Thank you for the advice. I ordered a Kh and GH test today. I will post results when I have them.
 
Blacksheep1
  • #11
I only said I don’t recommend ro yet as in the original post they said they didn’t want to go that route and didn’t know tap water gh .

there is a very , very fine line between the two parameters , it’s tricky . Especially in a new tank when you don’t know parameters. I think as the blues are already ordered at this point , just let them settle and mature and see how that goes for at least two months. That’s two good moults in , then they can see if they are healthy and breeding.
 
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Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Blacksheep1 and richiep - My Sera GH test arrived and the results are in! My tap water has 3 degrees of GH.

Edit- My KH test arrived today. Results indicate 3 degrees of KH.
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
pH in shrimp tank is reading 6.6
18CD40D5-9981-4EED-8D93-F95183EB0878.jpeg
 
richiep
  • #14
Thats perfect for caradina, if you put the blues in they will have molt issues and you will loose them, you will need to use something like seechem equilibrium to sustain Neocaradina
 
Blacksheep1
  • #15
I’d assume kh is low too with a pH of 6.6. Looks like if you want to keep both species you’d need two tanks or to carefully prepare one as said above.
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
Thats perfect for caradina, if you put the blues in they will have molt issues and you will loose them, you will need to use something like seechem equilibrium to sustain Neocaradina
OK I can order something to add to it. Do you recommend the Seachem equilibrium? I’ve heard of something called salty shrimp as well. I’ve also heard of people adding some crushed coral to the filter or the tank. I also have some mountain stone that does raise the TDS of my other tank. I could add a piece of mountain stone to the neo tank.
 
Blacksheep1
  • #17
Do you know your kh and tds of the tap and the tank yet ?

it’s a very fine balance you’re wanting to achieve here and you may need to play with it little by little to get the balance right. You need to be able to test everything to achieve the goal, it’s doable for sure though :)

id go with one remineraliser for now , don’t add the stone or cc yet as it could be achievable with just adding the remineraliser .
 
richiep
  • #18
Forget the mountain stone,forget your crushed coral, and your tds is only a guide and nothing else, I can tell you from experience and keeping Neocaradina with Caradina also breeding together in the same tank takes a lot more hands on and experience, if your going to use salty bee to reminerilise then use ro water from the start and with your tap water being as it is you will get fluctuating readings it will never be stable and thats bad for any shrimp, I've written about keeping both species together and its not easy so I'd go for one first and see how it pans out then up grade to a minimum 40ltr before attempting to keep both species together.
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
Yes, right now I am only trying to prepare my tank for the blue dream Neocaridina shrimp. They are being shipped tomorrow and should arrive on Friday. It sounds like you’re saying Seachem equilibrium is the best product to use. I can order it tonight.
 
richiep
  • #20
Get the seechem equilibrium or Salty bee gh+ both do a good job
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #21
Get the seechem equilibrium or Salty bee gh+ both do a good job
Ok thank you. Could you please explain why you recommend the Salty Bee GH+ For the blue dreams instead of Salty Shrimp GH/KH+? what I read on the instructions is that salty shrimp gh/kh+ is for neos and the salty bee gh is for bee shrimp. I just want to be sure I am getting the right product.
 
richiep
  • #22
Sorry huckleberry mistake on my part i only use gh+ for caradina in your case it would be gh/kh+ for Neocaradina
 
86 ssinit
  • #23
Ok just wondering. You did successfully keep yellow neocaridina shrimp? If so the blues are no different. I’ve kept all 3 and other neocaridina shrimp together in my tanks. Seems the red gene is the strongest and for me they go red or brown. My gh is 1 my kh is 3 my ph comes out of the tap at 7 and I don’t test anymore :eek:.
When I first started I would buy 7 at a time and some would always die. Once I had 20 live ones the tank started producing. Add any type of fish production goes down.

I think your on the right track with what you added to the tank. I would also have suggested a seasoned tank but you’ve seasoned it. When the shrimp come off of your plants and wood put other plants in. I routinely change plants and wood. Shrimp will clean any thing you add to there tank.

Next once you mix colors brown will appear. Brown will appear probably even if you don’t mix. These browns need to be removed (culled). Otherwise the tank will turn brown. It’s the most dominant color. I add the browns to my other tanks. A yes food :(. B it surprising how many still survive/change color /adapt to there new tank.
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
Sorry huckleberry mistake on my part i only use gh+ for caradina in your case it would be gh/kh+ for Neocaradina
Thank you for clarifying!!
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
Ok just wondering. You did successfully keep yellow neocaridina shrimp? If so the blues are no different. I’ve kept all 3 and other neocaridina shrimp together in my tanks. Seems the red gene is the strongest and for me they go red or brown. My gh is 1 my kh is 3 my ph comes out of the tap at 7 and I don’t test anymore :eek:.
When I first started I would buy 7 at a time and some would always die. Once I had 20 live ones the tank started producing. Add any type of fish production goes down.

I think your on the right track with what you added to the tank. I would also have suggested a seasoned tank but you’ve seasoned it. When the shrimp come off of your plants and wood put other plants in. I routinely change plants and wood. Shrimp will clean any thing you add to there tank.

Next once you mix colors brown will appear. Brown will appear probably even if you don’t mix. These browns need to be removed (culled). Otherwise the tank will turn brown. It’s the most dominant color. I add the browns to my other tanks. A yes food :(. B it surprising how many still survive/change color /adapt to there new tank.
Yes I did keep yellow neocaridina with zero special treatment. They reproduced and sustained a colony in a 2.5 gallon tank.

I am ok with culling browns. They will get added to my other tanks where they have a chance at survival if they hide but will get eaten if they don’t. You must be doing a good job culling because that one shrimp that came in the package you sent me was an absolutely beautiful color. In fact I think that’s what got me back into shrimp this time around!

I would like to be able to add things to this tank to get cleaned but my need to aquascape the tank kind of took over. If they breed a lot maybe I can put some in a 5 gallon just as a utility tank for breeding and cleaning.

A147251B-34A6-4E28-8495-3852977079C5.jpeg
 
86 ssinit
  • #26
Yeah I don’t think your going to have a problem! Only thing is they work fast on algae. Here’s some pics from today. This was at 9:06
E0D8F1AC-8B90-4195-8E9B-6AA5CF9FA51B.jpeg
87A58A80-B84C-4401-96A4-5E6358682E8F.jpegthis was at 10:30
A1B9859D-3B1A-4EB3-85EF-2C535DD1B4F6.jpegand this is 4pm. All clean!! If you’d like more of the red shrimp I’ll send you some pm me :).
 
Huckleberry77
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
ProudPapa
  • #28
Yes I did keep yellow neocaridina with zero special treatment. They reproduced and sustained a colony in a 2.5 gallon tank.

I am ok with culling browns. They will get added to my other tanks where they have a chance at survival if they hide but will get eaten if they don’t. You must be doing a good job culling because that one shrimp that came in the package you sent me was an absolutely beautiful color. In fact I think that’s what got me back into shrimp this time around!

I do the same thing. I call it the Shrimp Intelligence Test, especially in the 65 gallon tank with turquoise rainbowfish, lemon tetras, and black neon tetras. I dump them out close to a clump of floating pearl weed. The ones that swim out into open water instead of straight into the pearl weed tend to fail rather quickly.
 

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