Help RCS dying

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
Good Evening,

I’m having sporadic deaths with my red cherry shrimp tank. The 7 gallon ‘bookshelf’ long planted tank has been running for 3 months.Tank mates include 6 Ember tetras and inherited pond snails on plants; I added 2 assassin snails a couple days ago.
I’ve had ‘white ring of death’ deaths throughout the 2 months the shrimp have been in the tank. I’ve added rcs groups multiple times. Overall some molt successfully and some do not.

here are my parameters:
Amm 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 - 10
Ph 7.4+
kh 3
Gh 6-7
temp 80

my embers had ich from the pet store and I treated with heat (up to 85F) for 14 days and ich attack - we’re on the downslope now.

I have Bacter AE and shrimp pellets. I use Prime for water changes and have recently purchase Carbonate from aquavitro.

Shrimpers!
Will you offer your guidance as to what I need to do to improve their well-being?

I’ve added a few photos for your reference
Thank you!
 

Attachments

Crimson_687

Well Known
Member
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
580
Location
Dallas, Texas
Experience
3 years
Pic two is a problem with improper/ induced shed. It’s not an uncommon problem and can happen even when conditions are good. It can be due to lack of nutrients/calcium in the water, excess protein in diet or lack thereof, or the shrimp may have responded to a stimulus, such as a water change, with a shed that wasn’t due yet. Unfortunately it is almost always fatal. In some cases it is so slight that the shrimp is able to survive until it is time to shed and shed properly, but your case looks severe. Your shrimp may become immobile or may already have trouble moving and eating.


It may also be possible the shrimp faced improper care at your provider or were not acclimated properly. If possible, call your provider and ask what pH, kH, and gH they had. It may have differed too vastly from yours and the shrimp may not have acclimated properly.

Also make sure you do not overdose bacter AE.

I hope you’re able to solve this problem! Cherry shrimp are quite hardy when conditions are favorable.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
Yes, that one didn’t make it. I moved him to the marimo ball to get out of the way of any snails. The other death I woke up to this morning didn’t have the ring. I haven’t had two deaths within one day but I have had one every 24 hours the past four days I believe.

I placed cuttlebone into the tank last week to hopefully help with the calcium present in the water.

are my parameters okay?

Ive read a lot of fish lore posts. It’s generally my go-to for any questions and general education. I finally asked about the rcs tank because I wanted some direct advice. all of the embers survived the heatwave.
 

SanDiegoRedneck

Well Known
Member
Messages
812
Reaction score
688
cdianne said:
Good Evening,

I’m having sporadic deaths with my red cherry shrimp tank. The 7 gallon ‘bookshelf’ long planter tank has been running for 3 months.Tank mates include 6 Ember tetras and pond snails; I added 2 assassin snails a couple days ago.
I’ve had ‘white ring of death’ deaths throughout the 2 months the shrimp have been in the tank. I’ve added rcs groups multiple times. Overall some molt successfully and some do not.

here are my parameters:
Amm 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 - 10
Ph 7.4+
kh 3
Gh 6-7
temp 80

my embers has ich from the pet store and I treated with heat (up to 85F) we’re on the downslope now.

I have Bacter AE and shrimp pellets. I use Prime for water changes and have recently purchase Carbonate from aquavitro.
Shrimpers!

Will you offer your guidance as to what I need to do to improve their well-being?

I’ve added a few photos for your reference
Thank you for your guidance!
I don't believe your perameters per say. I have very similar perameters in my cherry tank. But as said above if not aqlimate properly their first molt could cause problamatic.

Did you drip aqlimate to your water?
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
SanDiegoRedneck said:
I don't believe your perameters per say. I have very similar perameters in my cherry tank. But as said above if not aqlimate properly their first molt could cause problamatic.

Did you drip aqlimate to your water?
It’s good to know you have a thriving tank with similar parameters. I tend to add 5-10ml of water to their bag over two hours and then remove them with a net and place them in the tank. It’s not quite drip but it’s close.
Should the acclimation be longer?
 

SanDiegoRedneck

Well Known
Member
Messages
812
Reaction score
688
cdianne said:
It’s good to know you have a thriving tank with similar parameters. I tend to add 5-10ml of water to their bag over two hours and then remove them with a net and place them in the tank. It’s not quite drip but it’s close.
Should the acclimation be longer?
2 hours is good. I use air tubing to siphon tank water into new container but before you start. Tie knot then after siphon starts going you can sinch down.
Here is video I made when I got my tangerine tigers.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
SanDiegoRedneck said:
2 hours is good. I use air tubing to siphon tank water into new container but before you start. Tie knot then after siphon starts going you can sinch down.
Here is video I made when I got my tangerine tigers.
Thanks for the reference.

Just to be sure, because I've felt the kh and gh are on the low side, my parameters look okay?

I believe our city water ph is on a bit of a spike. It's often 7.4-7.6 but is going off to deep blue (API) when I tested it yesterday.
 

SanDiegoRedneck

Well Known
Member
Messages
812
Reaction score
688
cdianne said:
Thanks for the reference.

Just to be sure, because I've felt the kh and gh are on the low side, my parameters look okay?

I believe our city water ph is on a bit of a spike. It's often 7.4-7.6 but is going off to deep blue (API) when I tested it yesterday.
Ok so full story since you asked my tap is crazy hard.
8.1ph
440tds
12gh
7kh.
Heat wave tank at 79

They were living in this water. But I did buy local so lived in same tap, but if I get a little lower i will have better long term success.

But I started to get to distilled water slowly with water changes. Just this week. Then re ad minerals back once gets below where I want.

Granted my shrimp tanks are shrimp only.

I made a thread on it and I will update with each water change here is link rather than retype

Switching hard water shrimp tanks to distilled water. W test results | 464838 | Freshwater Invertebrates

cdianne said:
Thanks for the reference.

Just to be sure, because I've felt the kh and gh are on the low side, my parameters look okay?

I believe our city water ph is on a bit of a spike. It's often 7.4-7.6 but is going off to deep blue (API) when I tested it yesterday.
Ps cherry's are very forgiving. (Not being rude) sorry for your loss. But here are general guides but I've heard of cherry's way out of these guidelines.
  • Ph: 7.0 to 7.6.
  • Gh: 7 to 15.
  • Kh: 2 to 8.
  • TDS: 180 to 400.
  • Temp: 68 to 75
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
SanDiegoRedneck said:
Ps cherry's are very forgiving. (Not being rude) sorry for your loss. But here are general guides but I've heard of cherry's way out of these guidelines.
  • Ph: 7.0 to 7.6.
  • Gh: 7 to 15.
  • Kh: 2 to 8.
  • TDS: 180 to 400.
  • Temp: 68 to 75
That's a good reference; no rudeness assumed. I have a parameters journal for all of my tanks and wrote in the rcs requirements which I've seen differ some. I've heard they're one of the easier ones. I liked them for their bright red balance with the embers. I'm sure once I am more familiar and the tank ages further in stability, it'll smooth out but currently I feel bad for their loss(es).
Thanks SanDiegoRedneck:)
 

JettsPapa

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,691
Reaction score
4,192
Location
Grimes County, Texas
Experience
Just started
I don't think it's causing the deaths, but why do you have your tank at 80°? That seems warm. Mine are thriving in an unheated tank (72° in summer and 68° in winter).

My pH is 8.2, and I've never checked the gh or kh.
 

Crimson_687

Well Known
Member
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
580
Location
Dallas, Texas
Experience
3 years
cdianne said:
It’s good to know you have a thriving tank with similar parameters. I tend to add 5-10ml of water to their bag over two hours and then remove them with a net and place them in the tank. It’s not quite drip but it’s close.
Should the acclimation be longer?
Just a recommendation:

Nets should be avoided, especially for shrimps, because they may cause damage if the animal struggles. It can be especially dangerous for shrimplets. I usually catch my shrimp with a rounded tablespoon or a small cup. You can use the net to persuade them into the cup, but it’s always good to avoid nets when possible.

If you find yourself needing to net shrimp frequently, I would recommend investing in a shrimp net.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
JettsPapa said:
I don't think it's causing the deaths, but why do you have your tank at 80°? That seems warm. Mine are thriving in an unheated tank (72° in summer and 68° in winter).

My pH is 8.2, and I've never checked the gh or kh.
It was at 80 because of the ich treatment. It will be coming down to 78. I cannot get lower than our house temp in Texas.

Crimson_687 said:
Just a recommendation:

Nets should be avoided, especially for shrimps, because they may cause damage if the animal struggles. It can be especially dangerous for shrimplets. I usually catch my shrimp with a rounded tablespoon or a small cup. You can use the net to persuade them into the cup, but it’s always good to avoid nets when possible.

If you find yourself needing to net shrimp frequently, I would recommend investing in a shrimp net.
That makes sense. I’ve only had to move them out of the transfer bag into the tank, letting them swim out of the net themselves but I’ll definitely do the cup persuasion technique next time.
Thanks!

VeiltailKing said:
Are you ordering these shrimp in or buying local?
Hi VeiltailKing.
Like the name.
I’ve done both. I ordered 12 from Imperial Tropicals, received 13 all alive. Purchased some from my lfs as well as larger pet store for the remaining smaller sets of 3. Parameters are relatively the same with the local and following the online order, I had a fair amount successfully molt with one loss from an unknown population.
 

jmaldo

Well Known
Member
Messages
3,481
Reaction score
5,055
Location
Northcoast Ohio
Experience
3 years
A shame you had to treat for "Ick" not good for the shrimp, that along with the "High" heat may be the cause of your problems.
As mentioned 80' is at the high end. I kept mine @75.
You could add an airstone to help dissipate the heat.
Let's see what advice the shrimp "Guru" @richiep has to offer.

Good Luck!
 

richiep

Fishlore VIP
Member
Messages
7,337
Reaction score
4,430
Location
Bedford UK but Welsh
Experience
More than 10 years
the shrimp being in there 2months says they went in when the tank was 1month old thats a problem in itself and would cause the shrimp to die, now that you are 3months old is now where the tank should be settling but can still have an affect on the shrimp,
That along with a temp of 85f is not good for shrimp it needs to come down to at least 76f or better still 72f,
Unfortunately these are the issues faced by anyone keeping fish with shrimp should you get an ich problem something as to suffer. There is no safe ich treatment that is safe for shrimp, the other things to look at are your water changes, are they done to fast, have you added carbonate to bring up your gh?, as it stands apart from the temperature your parameters are fine for cherries,
Somewhere along the line I think you've shocked them or you are shocking them by doing something so have a think along those lines and see if something pops up, if the ich has gone drop your temp and leave things settle again,
 

Mhamilton0911

Well Known
Member
Messages
511
Reaction score
482
Location
Idaho
As I keep reading, higher water temp and long light period can make shrimp molt too often? Maybe reducing heat and lighting time to give shrimps a molt break.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
jmaldo said:
A shame you had to treat for "Ick" not good for the shrimp, that along with the "High" heat may be the cause of your problems.
As mentioned 80' is at the high end. I kept mine @75.
You could add an airstone to help dissipate the heat.
Let's see what advice the shrimp "Guru" @richiep has to offer.

Good Luck!
I've got a few (3) airstones going following the heat treatment. I'm glad there I'll be leaving at least one to two of those in going forward. The tank is at 79 today. I have a led light coming which should help in preventing the heat the current light (plant light included in the package) creates.
I'm also just glad there weren't too many casualties from the heat but I suppose there's still time from the current temperature flux.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
Mhamilton0911 said:
As I keep reading, higher water temp and long light period can make shrimp molt too often? Maybe reducing heat and lighting time to give shrimps a molt break.
Thank you Mhamilton0911.
I had read increased heat may induce molting; I hadn't considered the photoperiod. I'll definitely decrease the time under the light.

What number of hours do you recommend? It's currently a 10am-7pm timer.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #19
OP
C

cdianne

New Member
Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Texas
richiep said:
the shrimp being in there 2months says they went in when the tank was 1month old thats a problem in itself and would cause the shrimp to die, now that you are 3months old is now where the tank should be settling but can still have an affect on the shrimp,
That along with a temp of 85f is not good for shrimp it needs to come down to at least 76f or better still 72f,
Unfortunately these are the issues faced by anyone keeping fish with shrimp should you get an ich problem something as to suffer. There is no safe ich treatment that is safe for shrimp, the other things to look at are your water changes, are they done to fast, have you added carbonate to bring up your gh?, as it stands apart from the temperature your parameters are fine for cherries,
Somewhere along the line I think you've shocked them or you are shocking them by doing something so have a think along those lines and see if something pops up, if the ich has gone drop your temp and leave things settle again,
I'm really just excited to have a response from FL shrimp guru. Thank you for sharing your insights. Overall it seems I may have been lucky for the limited losses due to the heat; of course, there's still the current flux they're in returning to cooler (but still warm) temperatures. I'm at 79 this morning and no loss of life - a couple that are still which I must admit stresses me out some nowadays.
As far as water changes, I've doing no more than 20% usually nearer to 15 and I've refilled with airline tubing as well as slowly with a liter container. I added the Carbonate to get the kh up some as I had my ph dip into 6.8 when measuring with the masterkit. quite alarming although I didn't retest. My lfs had recommended it to only increase kh and not gh or ph.
I wondered if my driftwood was causing the lower readings and if influencing ph too much, should I remove it?
That's good to know about my parameters. Do you have any ideas on how I can affordably (maybe even unaffordably) cool the water?

Thank you again!
 

richiep

Fishlore VIP
Member
Messages
7,337
Reaction score
4,430
Location
Bedford UK but Welsh
Experience
More than 10 years
You can turn the heater down and let it cool naturally this is what happenes in the summer daytime temperature may take it +85 but is will slowly drop by night, maybe not to what its set at due to ambient temperature.
I honestly wouldn't alter the parameters from where they are in your first post theres nothing wrong with them,
Theres a wide range for cherries
Ph 6.8 to 8
Kh 2 to 7+
Gh minimum 5 no lower up 12 but I know of people here at 19.
Temp aim for 72f to 75 although a degree or so either side will not kill.
The secret with all these is keeping them stable any sudden fluctuations will cause problems.
After what you've been through leave the wood in give your tank 48hrs to settle down then do all the tests again and see how thing are, dont worry if you loose another shrimp this may be from whats gone on but its important to take a closeup photo of the dead shrimp in the tank then post, any other shrimp that may look odd do the same with,
Having the white line dosnt mean the shrimp will die if the shell is soft enough it will moult, any moults you see now without death is a good sign.
 

New Threads

Follow FishLore!

FishLore on Social Media

Online statistics

Members online
212
Guests online
2,720
Total visitors
2,932

Aquarium Photo Contests

Aquarium Calculator

Top Bottom