random question for the breeders

Akari_32

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sooooo, as the title suggests, i have a random question for you guys! ;D what is more desirable in a betta: a straighter, more flat back, or the curvy, hump-back like ones?
 
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Akari_32

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god he's pretty o.o! i might kidnap him lol

so curvy over flat then? so that would mean most of the bettas you find at petstores (as with most petstore animals in general) arent bred very well?
 

Martinismommy

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Pet store Bettas are just that "Pets".....The male above is one of my nicest young show males....I am a real stickler about a nice backline...No humps or bumps....
 
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Akari_32

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hee hee, Cornelious is half way to being a show quality boy XD (keep dreamin', right? lol) i seem to be saying this a lot in the last few months, but i really cant wait till i have my own house and the room (and money) to breed bettas =D i would love to buy some from breeders tho, i dont have the money to ='(
 

harpua2002

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Pet store Bettas are just that "Pets".....The male above is one of my nicest young show males....I am a real stickler about a nice backline...No humps or bumps....
He's absolutely fantastic. As always, your hard work shows!
 

Martinismommy

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Thank you BB......He is very young but a huge boy showing a lot of promise.....Very hard to find good multi's that's why I started breeding them ....
 

Red1313

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Gorgeous boy MM

I haven't put my own "standards" to the test yet but one thing too remember is that form is a lot about eye appeal. A dilapidated house that's painted pretty is still a dilapidated house.
Take this guy for example.
291.jpg

Just showing him to contrast the boy above.
 
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bassbonediva

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That's a great comparison, Red! I never thought about it like that. Are there different "perfect" toplines for the different types of betta splendens, just like there are different acceptable toplines for horses and dogs (sorry, I work with horses and dogs A LOT, so that's the way my mind thinks)? I mean, if you were breeding veiltails, you'd want a more straight, level back than one like MM's boy because of the way a VT's tail hangs, right?
 

Martinismommy

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Another example of a perfect topline..This fish went Best of Variety HM male at the CA last year over 100 plus entries...This is the sire of the young multi above..
 

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Red1313

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MM you're mean! Have some mercy for the newbie breeder lol.

Ok here goes my 2 cents on the question

The answer is yes, and no.

Take the DT's for example:
308.jpg

look at the shape and location of this boys dorsal fin. Verses MM's boy above. Obviously this change has resulted in a slight change in the build and muscling of the fish. Now look at the female in the first attached image (Munchkin) see some similarities in the top line? Muchkin is 2-3 generations after a DT was crossed into an HM line. At DT like topline looks pretty funny on a non DT fish doesn't it? Yet it's within the DT standard.

CT's
Here are a selection of CT's taken from AB just now
309.jpg



What do you notice about all of them? They kinda look like line backers don't they? I don't know if it's the standard but the CT's I've seen tend to have a VERY pronounced hump. (2nd attached image is my CT nighthawk and even without flaring you can see the hump.)

VT and PK
I can't really say much about the VT since there's not really a standard anymore for breeders to aim at. However they did come from PK (really just just are a long fin PK)

There's little vairation in each tail type's topline partially because they need the variations to "build the house". If you want an A-frame house, a hut, or a ranch house, you need a different "foundation" to properly support each.

Here's an image of a DTCT female:

Did I answer it at all... I don't know...
Alot of things impact the form of the fish.
-Gentic background (including tail type vaiations between parents and grandparents)
-Health and "training"
-Breeders eye (what YOU think looks good.)
But in the end CT, VT, PK, HM, and DT's are a bit more closely related then the average dog breeds. It wouldn't take long for the betta's to "revert" back to the wild types, but your pomeranian would be a bit harder to revert back into a wolf...
Over time more standardized toplines may evolve.
 

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Martinismommy

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Red, you know I LOVE new breeders! But there is NO mercy lol The best way to learn is hands on...
 

Red1313

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Haha MM that's a harsh but true reality

I'll see if I can "fix" the pictures...

P.S. Fixed, I had a brain fart and was linking to the pages instead of the image urls <Whoops>
 
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bassbonediva

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I was just curious because both of my CT boys have the hump like your Nighthawk does, but I think James is my only VT boy who has what could even remotely be considered a hump. Just looking at Emmett, my feathertail, and Amun, my halfmoon, Emmett has the more pronounced "hump" like the CT boys do, but Amun has a topline closer to MM's boys. Again, it was a curiousity question since I know that the lady I work for has two arabs who have completely different toplines, yet they are both considered acceptable (maybe not as halter horses, but as hunter/hack horses definitely).
 
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Akari_32

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i ges all that does make sence (the tops line effecting the "placement" of the dorsal fin and the innitial impact how how the fish looks). beatiful fish tho! i love the black boy! and the light color on his fins is a great contrast! =D
 

Red1313

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I was just curious because both of my CT boys have the hump like your Nighthawk does, but I think James is my only VT boy who has what could even remotely be considered a hump. Just looking at Emmett, my feathertail, and Amun, my halfmoon, Emmett has the more pronounced "hump" like the CT boys do, but Amun has a topline closer to MM's boys. Again, it was a curiousity question since I know that the lady I work for has two arabs who have completely different toplines, yet they are both considered acceptable (maybe not as halter horses, but as hunter/hack horses definitely).
True but another thing to remember about fish vs horses is that form affects function. The better a horses conformation the better they'll typically "hold up", betta's are bred for looks and while this is important in horses to, Betta's don't "really" have the same sorts of selections pressures against them. Really streneous preformance events for horses (racing, jumping, dressage, or pulling in the case of drafts) make it pretty clear what veriations will and won't make it.

Also pure vs cross bred horses and lines of horses will show different appearances.

It's an interesting thing to think about even if it is just a curiousity sort of question.
 
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