Rams versus apistogrammas

I am setting up a 29 and I have decided I want a South American cichlid as my centerpiece, but I cannot decide between rams or apistos. Here are the pros and cons for both
Rams
Pros
-Easier to find, My lfs has them
-Likes warmer water
-I like the appearance more
-Not too hard to breed
-Can be bred as a pair, or can be kept with community fish
-plant safe

Cons
-Bigger than apistos
-slightly more aggressive, cannot cohabitate with ember tetras, which I want
-not shrimp safe


Apistos
Pros
-really easy to breed
-Lots of color varieties
-Can find them sexed online easily
-Easy to sex
-not very agressive
-plant safe
-smaller

Cons
-I don't love the appearance as much
-more expensive
-not available at my lfs
-I would have to wait until spring to ship them for weather reasons
-cooler tropical temperatures, but my tank is warmer
-not shrimp safe

I'm leaning towards Rams, but I do really like both of them. What are your thoughts fishlore? Also if any of my information is incorrect, please let me know, as this is based off of the knowledge I have gained from the internet, however I have never kept either of these fish before

 

I would go for rams if that is the temp range more in line with the rest of the tank. You can always do a tank later with apistos featured.

 

-slightly more aggressive, cannot cohabitate with ember tetras, which I want

Hi. I had my GBRs with a school of ember tetras and they did just fine. I ended up moving the GBRs because they were harrassing the corydoras, but they left the ember tetras alone entirely.

Not sure if that's true all the time, but that was my experience. I love ember tetras by the way, good choice.

 

Bolivian Rams, you won’t regret it.

 

I would take exception with your list of pro and cons. First there are many species of apistogramma with variance in requirements, temperament and looks. Some are hyper aggressive and some quite passive. Some i think are quite lovely and others ughly. Some quite small - sub 2 inch - and some quite large 4+ inch. Generally speaking given the correct water condition for the specific species most are a bit heartier and less prone to illness than domestic rams but there are exception esp with heavily inbred domestic species (like cockatoo). Last but least in most cases (again species specific) apistogramma are easier to breed and much easier to raise the frys.

Btw these are just a small example of dwarf cichlid. There are many other species worth considering such as nannacara anomala, keyholes, Pelvicachromis pulcher (kribs), and 100's of others.

I would start with your experience level and water condition. I.e, if you are using tap water what is the gh,kh ph and go from there with regards to picking an appropriate species that will do well. Btw kribs are by far the easiest to breed as almost no care is required to raise the youngs which is both a bless and curse - and one of the reason they are extremely inexpensive.

Last but least you mentioned 'center piece'; when picking a dwarf cichlid you should carefully consider the other fishes and if you intend to breed them. For example in most cases mixing breeding cichlid with cory or pleco is not a good idea but having a single male it can work out. Conversely most tetra are predator of frys and with the exception of kribs there is a good chance they will make breeding very difficult (kribs are generally speaking exceptional parents though that might result in dead tetra if they are over eager at chasing frys).

 

I would take exception with your list of pro and cons. First there are many species of apistogramma with variance in requirements, temperament and looks. Some are hyper aggressive and some quite passive. Some i think are quite lovely and others ughly. Some quite small - sub 2 inch - and some quite large 4+ inch. Generally speaking given the correct water condition for the specific species most are a bit heartier and less prone to illness than domestic rams but there are exception esp with heavily inbred domestic species (like cockatoo). Last but least in most cases (again species specific) apistogramma are easier to breed and much easier to raise the frys.

Btw these are just a small example of dwarf cichlid. There are many other species worth considering such as nannacara anomala, keyholes, Pelvicachromis pulcher (kribs), and 100's of others.

I would start with your experience level and water condition. I.e, if you are using tap water what is the gh,kh ph and go from there with regards to picking an appropriate species that will do well. Btw kribs are by far the easiest to breed as almost no care is required to raise the youngs which is both a bless and curse - and one of the reason they are extremely inexpensive.

Last but least you mentioned 'center piece'; when picking a dwarf cichlid you should carefully consider the other fishes and if you intend to breed them. For example in most cases mixing breeding cichlid with cory or pleco is not a good idea but having a single male it can work out. Conversely most tetra are predator of frys and with the exception of kribs there is a good chance they will make breeding very difficult (kribs are generally speaking exceptional parents though that might result in dead tetra if they are over eager at chasing frys).

Nothing to add. Excellent introduction.

 

Do you want to deal with breeding in a community tank and the aggression that goes with it??

 

-Can find them sexed online easily
-Easy to sex

You wish. In specialized forums (and here) it has turned out many people not only get them sexed wrong by the stores, but often they are also sold as the wrong species. Just lately someone wanted a pair of A. agassizii and got two male A. baenschi. The frequency with which that happens tells me store employees have to be really into dwarf cichlids, otherwise mistakes are frequent.

 

Do you want to deal with breeding in a community tank and the aggression that goes with it??

I either want to breed the fish, or I want to keep them by themselves in a community tank. I wouldn't have a community and a breeding pair

I would take exception with your list of pro and cons. First there are many species of apistogramma with variance in requirements, temperament and looks. Some are hyper aggressive and some quite passive. Some i think are quite lovely and others ughly. Some quite small - sub 2 inch - and some quite large 4+ inch. Generally speaking given the correct water condition for the specific species most are a bit heartier and less prone to illness than domestic rams but there are exception esp with heavily inbred domestic species (like cockatoo). Last but least in most cases (again species specific) apistogramma are easier to breed and much easier to raise the frys.

Btw these are just a small example of dwarf cichlid. There are many other species worth considering such as nannacara anomala, keyholes, Pelvicachromis pulcher (kribs), and 100's of others.

I would start with your experience level and water condition. I.e, if you are using tap water what is the gh,kh ph and go from there with regards to picking an appropriate species that will do well. Btw kribs are by far the easiest to breed as almost no care is required to raise the youngs which is both a bless and curse - and one of the reason they are extremely inexpensive.

Last but least you mentioned 'center piece'; when picking a dwarf cichlid you should carefully consider the other fishes and if you intend to breed them. For example in most cases mixing breeding cichlid with cory or pleco is not a good idea but having a single male it can work out. Conversely most tetra are predator of frys and with the exception of kribs there is a good chance they will make breeding very difficult (kribs are generally speaking exceptional parents though that might result in dead tetra if they are over eager at chasing frys).

Kribs might be a good choice then, I need to read up on them

 

I either want to breed the fish, or I want to keep them by themselves in a community tank. I wouldn't have a community and a breeding pair

But still needs a decision. Can't do both in the same tank.

 

Rams may breed easy but raising them seems another game for many .
You will have problems IMO if you want to breed and you place other fish with the pair .
Just me .
Most of the Apisto that are not overbred are hard to come by or wild which leads to a whole other set of problems .

 

Rams may breed easy but raising them seems another game for many .
You will have problems IMO if you want to breed and you place other fish with the pair .
Just me .
Most of the Apisto that are not overbred are hard to come by or wild which leads to a whole other set of problems .

Could I do only 1 ram in a community tank?

 

Could I do only 1 ram in a community tank?

Yes. If you want a community tank, no breeding activity and quiet and peace: 1 dwarf cichlid. Period. They are not gregarious, so this is possible.
But: Be also aware these fish are inquisitive, so give them some enrichment (leaf litter especially, as well as regular small amounts of live food they have to forage for), otherwise they might get "bored". I put this in " " for a reason, as this is not in the least comparable to human boredom. They simply need a certain level of stimulation.

 

Yes. If you want a community tank, no breeding activity and quiet and peace: 1 dwarf cichlid. Period. They are not gregarious, so this is possible.
But: Be also aware these fish are inquisitive, so give them some enrichment (leaf litter especially, as well as regular small amounts of live food they have to forage for), otherwise they might get "bored". I put this in " " for a reason, as this is not in the least comparable to human boredom. They simply need a certain level of stimulation.

what would you suggest for live food?

 

White mosquito larvae and daphnia. Freshwater species, that tend to hide in floating plants and leaf litter. Additionally live baby brine shrimp, they are more of a food they have to forage for as they live for some hours in freshwater. After that they sink to the ground and can be sifted out from the sand, which almost all dwarf cichlids do regularly.

 

White mosquito larvae and daphnia. Freshwater species, that tend to hide in floating plants and leaf litter. Additionally live baby brine shrimp, they are more of a food they have to forage for as they live for some hours in freshwater. After that they sink to the ground and can be sifted out from the sand, which almost all dwarf cichlids do regularly.

thanks.

 

If you do get a german blue ram be prepare to set the temp around 82 and ensure the other fishes in the community can handle the warmer temp. Also it helps if the water is on the softer side.

 

The temperature for GBR should be the real deal breaker for 90% of the people who say I want GBR.
If setting the tank and keeping it at 82+ is a problem, then you should not be considering them at all.

 

The temperature for GBR should be the real deal breaker for 90% of the people who say I want GBR.
If setting the tank and keeping it at 82+ is a problem, then you should not be considering them at all.

I prefer to have hot tanks. My water is at 84 Fahrenheit right now

If you do get a german blue ram be prepare to set the temp around 82 and ensure the other fishes in the community can handle the warmer temp. Also it helps if the water is on the softer side.

I also do have soft water, around 6.7 or 6.8

 

I prefer to have hot tanks. My water is at 84 Fahrenheit right now

I also do have soft water, around 6.7 or 6.8

What unit is 6.7? gh is usually whole numbers; if ppm that would be like ro water... if ph I would still measure gh.

At 84 degree there are only a few suitable tankmates for GBR ...

 

What unit is 6.7? gh is usually whole numbers; if ppm that would be like ro water... if ph I would still measure gh.

At 84 degree there are only a few suitable tankmates for GBR ...

6.7 is my PH

What unit is 6.7? gh is usually whole numbers; if ppm that would be like ro water... if ph I would still measure gh.

At 84 degree there are only a few suitable tankmates for GBR ...

I am aware that there are only a few tank mates that like hot water, I'm thinking cardinal tetras and sterbai corys, both of which can handle hot water

 

6.7 is my PH

pH is not hardness. KH and GH are the relevant numbers for that.

Other possible tankmates would be hatchets and certain Nannostomus (N. eques for sure, and N. mortenthaleri.).

 

pH is not hardness. KH and GH are the relevant numbers for that.

Other possible tankmates would be hatchets and certain Nannostomus (N. eques for sure, and N. mortenthaleri.).

Oh wait, I did not realize that. My test strips are really weird, but they measure my gh as around 50

 

50 is probably ppm which is very soft. Does the strip indicate kh ?

 

50 is probably ppm which is very soft. Does the strip indicate kh ?

Sadly no. But I just got a new liquid test kit, so once it arrives I will test with that

 

If GH is that low and pH also significantly under 7 you can expect a low KH aswell. Perfect for dwarf cichlids.