Ram aggression

Discussion in 'Ram Cichlid' started by MatthewM, Aug 7, 2015.

  1. MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    So, i had an impulse buy of two beautiful german blue rams at a petco a week ago. They were bros, swam around together, now i only ever see one. Ans today i watched, and noticed the ever so slightly smaller one, hides behind a plant, and if he comes out, he gets chased back by the other ram... I'm guessing they are both makes then? If i get a female would they calm down a bit? Are females easy to find?
     
  2. AndyVE

    AndyVEValued MemberMember

    If one of them pairs up with the female those two would both chase the other male.

    as far as i undertood it.
    used to have a pair, but now only have the male (female died).
     
  3. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    What if i had like two females and one male? Or two males two females?
     
  4. AndyVE

    AndyVEValued MemberMember

    Am no expert.
    never even added another female to my tank as it is not certain the mail will ever accept another partner again (again that is what i gathered from info).

    what i have read a combo of 2 females for one male might work, just so he can choose one of them as a partner. Also read a post that said that this way the male can devide his attention to both of them (swap), so the other female can rest a bit.

    are you sure they are both male?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    No. It's just my hunch
     
  6. AndyVE

    AndyVEValued MemberMember

    Most obvious signs:
    black spot under dorsal fin : if no glimmering spots inside sign for male
    lack of pink belly (but is not all the time that pink on a female as well).
    There are more ways to tell but those two are for me the easiest to spot.
    if they lack both or have both chances are pretty high it is either a male (lack) or female
    So male:


    Female:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2018
  7. ClearEyes

    ClearEyesWell Known MemberMember

    That's a good ratio I've heard for other fish, but I don't know about rams specifically.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    From that, i believe both to be male. No pink at all on the belly
     
  9. AndyVE

    AndyVEValued MemberMember

    If they are juveniles it does not show that clearly.

    Maybe you can return one to the LFS and ask to swap it for a female?
    They should have known better and not gove you two males anyway.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    I got it from a petco, I really doubt the lady even knew what they were. She didn't seem to know what any of the fish were.
     
  11. AndyVE

    AndyVEValued MemberMember

    I seem to have a real good LFS near my place (really feel lucky about that).
    They would have at least warned you and have dedicated people tending the fish section (and they so far seem to be pretty aware about the needs of the fish they sell).

    if i am not mistaking adding 2 females is not an option since two pairs would need at least a 30 or 40 gallon.

    can try getting one female, but am affraid the remaining male will still be bullied (maybe even worse).
     
  12. ricmcc

    ricmccWell Known MemberMember

    Rams used to be in the genus apistos., but were moved some time ago. Unlike most Apistos., where a 3:1 F:M ratio is appropriate, the ram should be kept at at 1:1 ratio.
    I would return the shy one to the store, and look for someone who knows the species in order to get a female. Good luck, rick

    Sorry AndyVE, I must learn to type faster, as I hadn't noticed your post while hunting and pecking. In any case, a 2:1 M:F ratio will result in one dead male.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2015
  13. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    You say it isn't an option because two pairs need at least a 30 or 40...but i have a 75...
     
  14. AndyVE

    AndyVEValued MemberMember

    Sorry, probably mixed up the tank size with another thread i was reading.

    so you could try and add two females!

    minimum tank size per pair is 20 gallon (because when they try to mate they get slightly territorial).
     
  15. Danjamesdixon

    DanjamesdixonWell Known MemberMember

    Ram's are particularly hard to keep happy.

    Keeping males together will result in fighting. Trying to get a pair going is never easy - they are picky fish. A 2:1 ratio will result in the weaker male being harassed. A 1:2 ratio will result in the weaker female being harassed. Some females are more aggressive than males so keeping females together isn't a guarantee'd success either. Keeping multiple pairs can require a great deal of work, especially around breeding time when aggression is high.

    From experience, if you can bring yourself to do it, is to keep the strongest specimen you have, and offer him/her mates until they choose. Alternatively, the better option is to start with a young group, let them pair off themselves, and rehome those you do not wish to keep.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    One of them is now spending all of his time at the top of the tank. Not sure why. It looks normal. Only problem i have seen is, he won't open his tail fin out. All his other fins will fan out. But not his tail. Is it going to die on me?..
     
  17. cooperbh

    cooperbhValued MemberMember

    Most aggressive ram I ever had was a female. She obsessively bullied both my male and my other female, as well as any other fish in the tank that dared to get within her line of sight. She spent feeding time not eating, but running off anyone trying to steal just a little nibble, which basically means nobody ate.

    After I returned her to the LFS, the male promptly took over the role of tank a-hole, though he generally left the smaller fish alone. Once I returned him, the remaining female lived peacefully among the community.

    There's really just no way to know with rams. I know I'll never house more than one ram again unless I come across a bonded pair, which - seeing as those are quite hard to find as well as expensive - means I'll never house more than one ram again.
     
  18. cooperbh

    cooperbhValued MemberMember

    If the tank is large enough, one male to four or five females is a better ratio for rams, generally speaking. It doesn't necessarily stop aggression, but it keeps it from being concentrated on just one or two fish.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    MatthewM

    MatthewMValued MemberMember

    Neither of them have bothered any other fish. Just each other. They seem to be coexisting at the moment. It almost seems on and off.
     
  20. cooperbh

    cooperbhValued MemberMember

    Yup. Unfortunately, it tends to become more on than off as time passes, at least in my experience. I've also seen the bullied fish suddenly snap one day and become more aggressive than the original instigator ever was. Like I said, there's really no way to know with rams.

    Good luck. :)