Quick Cycling Advice - Nitrites

HI all,

So about 5 weeks ago I finished a 4 week is cycle on a 60 litre tank. During this cycle I used Tetra safe start and dr Tim’s ammonia (fishless)

I saw 0 nitrites through the cycle and after 4 weeks or so I was cycling 2ppm ammonia in 24 hours to nitrates - around 40ppm

For the last 5 weeks the tank has been nice and stable with constant 0,0,20 before a water change with fish

Any way, the question relates to another 30 litre tank I’m currently fishless cycling for a Betta.

Followed the same process, dosed Tetra safe start and 1ppm ammonia, but this time I’m seeing large nitrites and nitrates.

Nearly 4 weeks since cycle started and my 1ppm ammonia is clearing in 24 hours but I’m still seeing very high 5ppm nitrites and upwards of 80ppm nitrates.

I did a water change a few days ago and redosed to 1ppm daily, which is clearing in 24 hours and nitrites/nitrates have rocketed back to 5 & 80. Nitrites don't seem to be dropping, what’s the best course of action:

- Dose 0.5ppm ammonia daily
- Dont dose for a day or so to see if nitrites drop
- Any other suggestion

Ph is 7.4
Water temp is 28 degrees C

Having not dealt with nitrites in my larger tank, I’m looking for the best course of action in relation to ammonia doses/nitrite reduction

I would have thought with a large amount of nitrates, the nitrites would be dropping

Thanks in advance

 

How much water did you change? Did the water change lower the nitrite reading?

 

Around 80% change as I also wanted to rearrange a few bits so took the opportunity

Yes Nitrites reduced as did nitrates .25/20 ish

redosed ammonia after water change and it cleared in 24 hours, added again the next day, cleared again and now NitrI and nitra are back up very high again

thanks

 

Water change again to get you nitrates down to 5-10, then dose ammonia and test and observe. When nitrites and nitrates get too high it can stall the cycle.

 

Around 80% change as I also wanted to rearrange a few bits so took the opportunity

Yes Nitrites reduced as did nitrates .25/20 ish

redosed ammonia after water change and it cleared in 24 hours, added again the next day, cleared again and now NitrI and nitra are back up very high again

thanks

I would go ahead and repeat the water change. Try to get the nitrates down to 5/10 even if it means more than one water change. Add enough ammonia after the water change to get it up to .5. After that I would just add .5 ammonia every other day until you start seeing 0 nitrites. Once that happens you can go ahead and up the every other day dose of ammonia to 1 ppm.

What fish do you plan on having in this tank? If it is just going to be a Betta tank, that 1ppm ammonia dose will grow enough bacteria to handle his bio-load. If you are planning on having more than just one fish in there you may want to start adding 2ppm ammonia once the nitrites get to and stay at zero.

Once it will process 2ppm in 24 hours and the nitrites stay zero it will be time for a water change and then fish.

Edited to add: One other thing that should help this tank along and could have almost instantly cycled this tank....Seeded media from your cycled tank would have worked even better than the bottled bacteria you used. The bacteria on the media in your cycled tank is bacteria that has grown in and is used to your source water so is the best bacteria to use to cycle another tank.

 

Yeah just a betta, that’s why I only did the initial 1ppm dose on this tank

Just looked at the photos I took of my water change nitrate test, it was indeed 10ppm of nitrate and a trace of nitrite post change, after that I dosed to 1ppm again, that cleared in 24 hours so I held off a dose of ammonia on day 2 post WC.
I then dosed again to 1ppm on day 3 of WC and on the 4th day since the change I’m back up to very high nitrate/nitrite and zero ammonia

so in summary, water change 0/0/10
2 doses of ammonia @ 1ppm in 3 days
4th day and back to 5ppm nitrite & 80ppm nitrate

Is another water change needed as my last did reduce to what you’ve said above

thanks

 

I added another paragraph to my last post. If you have some media to spare from your cycled tank you can use it to finish up this cycle.

Yes, I would do another water change to get the nitrites and nitrates back down and this time just add ammonia up to .5 every other day and see where that gets you. The water changes are not going to hurt the cycling process as long as you are adding your water conditioner and temp matching the new water.

those numbers are pretty high for no more ammonia than you have added. Can I see a photo of this tank?

 

I did take a cut of foam and a small amount of bio rings from my cycled tank, couldn’t get a full amount in the new filter but I’d say at least 1/2 of the media is a sponge from my canister and 1/2 of the biomedia is from my cycled canister

I then added a bottle of safe start

I’ll do another water change or 2 tomorrow and half dose ammonia, see what happens then

thanks as always

 

I did take a cut of foam and a small amount of bio rings from my cycled tank, couldn’t get a full amount in the new filter but I’d say at least 1/2 of the media is a sponge from my canister and 1/2 of the biomedia is from my cycled canister

I then added a bottle of safe start

I’ll do another water change or 2 tomorrow and half dose ammonia, see what happens then

thanks as always

It is strange that the seeded media didn't get this tank cycled faster. Try the water change and let's see where we are in a couple of days. If the nitrites spike back up with just .5 or so ammonia we have to think it is something other than the processed ammonia causing it.

I was working with one lady and no matter what she did her nitrites spiked off the chart even after 100% water changes. Come to find out it was a piece of deco causing it. Once removed she found her tank was actually cycled. It took a lot of trial and error to finally find the cause of the nitrites.

 

Missed the photo request

 

Missed the photo request

Oh my goodness, what a beautiful little tank Are those real rocks? I am just wondering if the cause of the spiking nitrites could be coming from some of the deco. Hopefully that isn't the case because all of it looks perfect in this tank.

 

Thanks - It’s all artificial other than the moss balls you can see in the left corner

However, the Little Rock’s at the bottom are actually biorb media, would or could this be causing a nitrite issue? I used them as I wanted some smaller rocks at the bottom and they looked pretty good I thought

it’s these things linked below - I know they are for bacteria settlement but without water flow or oxygen passing over them, I wouldn’t have though it would cause an issue - maybe I was wrong :/

 

Thanks - It’s all artificial other than the moss balls you can see in the left corner

However, the Little Rock’s at the bottom are actually biorb media, would or could this be causing a nitrite issue? I used them as I wanted some smaller rocks at the bottom and they looked pretty good I thought

it’s these things linked below - I know they are for bacteria settlement but without water flow or oxygen passing over them, I wouldn’t have though it would cause an issue - maybe I was wrong :/

It is possible. If your nitrites shoot right back up you may want to remove them. That is the only way you can know for sure. If you remove them and the nitrites don't shoot right back up you will have your answer.

I have to think something has to be causing this.The tank didn't process enough ammonia after the big water change to end up with those readings for nitrites and nitrates. By adding media from your cycled tank and also adding TSS it isn't making sense for what is happening to happen.

 

Is it worth doing the water change to reduce levels close to zero in the morning, not adding ammonia and measuring late evening or the morning after

It will mean that it will be around 30 hours without ammonia but I guess ill know if anything is causing a nitrite raise with a baseline of 0 and no ammonia addition

That’s probably what you meant...

 

Is it worth doing the water change to reduce levels close to zero in the morning, not adding ammonia and measuring late evening or the morning after

It will mean that it will be around 30 hours without ammonia but I guess ill know if anything is causing a nitrite raise with a baseline of 0 and no ammonia addition

That’s probably what you meant...

That is what I would do. Neither NI or NA should go up without an ammonia source. If they do you will know something in the tank is causing the spikes.

 

Perfect, thanks - ill do that in the morning and see what happens

As always, thanks for your help, hopefully if it is the biorb media that’s all it is as I guess I can replace them with similar rock and keep broadly the look of the tank how it is

 

Perfect, thanks - ill do that in the morning and see what happens

As always, thanks for your help, hopefully if it is the biorb media that’s all it is as I guess I can replace them with similar rock and keep broadly the look of the tank how it is

You are so very welcome. I really hope that is the cause since it will solve the mystery and you can finally consider this tank cycled.

 

Just a quick Q on this one

if it does turn out that the biorb media is the source or if indeed it does prove to be a piece of decor, how does that work?

As far as I know, the nitrite reading is a by product of the ammonia eating bacteria (nitrosamonas) so how does a piece of decor retain or keep producing this at levels that the Nitrobacter can not clear? As I’m seeing high nitrates, the Bacter must be clearing nitrite but assuming not as quick as it’s producing from....

genuine Q to try and understand how decor can affect readings before I try to figure it out

 

This is such an interesting and valid question that I'm sure I lack the knowledge to make an educated explanation. However, is it possible that something in the tank is preventing the bacteria that eats nitrite?

 

Ok so here we go, 90% water change... 0 nitrite

Nitrate 10, looks like it’s from the tap water

0 ammonia dosed so let’s see if the nitrites increase

2 hours later added below - looks to be slightly darker blue...

 

4 hours after water change and nitrites showing a lighter blue..so let’s call it 0

Don’t know what to expect in terms of timeframe for them to increase if it’s a piece of decor causing it...?

 

Just a quick Q on this one

if it does turn out that the biorb media is the source or if indeed it does prove to be a piece of decor, how does that work?

As far as I know, the nitrite reading is a by product of the ammonia eating bacteria (nitrosamonas) so how does a piece of decor retain or keep producing this at levels that the Nitrobacter can not clear? As I’m seeing high nitrates, the Bacter must be clearing nitrite but assuming not as quick as it’s producing from....

genuine Q to try and understand how decor can affect readings before I try to figure it out

Genuine answer...I am not sure. All I do know for sure is for the one lady one piece of her deco was leaching something that shot her nitrite reading up off the chart. Once I had her remove the piece the nitrites were no longer there.

That told us that her cycle was actually done because once the piece was removed both ammonia and nitrites were 0 24 hours after adding ammonia and her nitrates were rising.

Her deco was bought from a fish store and was supposed to be tank safe. The only thing we could assume was something about that deco was causing the nitrite test to register off the chart nitrites.

One other person was battling ammonia although she wasn't adding ammonia and had no fish in her tank. After exhausting all other possibilities we started looking at what she had in the tank. We had her take the pieces of deco out of the tank an soak them each in individual containers of ammonia free water. The ammonia went up with one of the pieces.

I can't say for 100% certainty that there was true nitrite or ammonia in either case but the tests were showing them to be there.

I have to think that you have ammonia eating bacteria because your ammonia is going down. I also have to think you have nitrite eating bacteria because you have nitrates.

the way you seeded this tank it really should have been cycled within a few days so something is definitely off.

4 hours after water change and nitrites showing a lighter blue..so let’s call it 0

Don’t know what to expect in terms of timeframe for them to increase if it’s a piece of decor causing it...?

When you added ammonia before, how long was it before you tested for nitrites?

BTW: I would run the nitrate test on the tap water to see if there is any there since you said that 10ppm may be from the tap

 

Well I love a test so I test every day without fail - yep its a waste of cash on a test kit but it makes me feel better

Too be honest, I don't know when I tested for nitrites in relation to when I last added ammonia, for the last 2 weeks all ive seen is purple nitrites and extremely high nitrates, coupled with a steady drop in ammonia to now clearing 24 hours after adding

Of course at the minute, there's 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 20 nitrates..

I mean I can leave until this evening and test nitrites again...

 

HI all,

So about 5 weeks ago I finished a 4 week is cycle on a 60 litre tank. During this cycle I used Tetra safe start and dr Tim’s ammonia (fishless)

I saw 0 nitrites through the cycle and after 4 weeks or so I was cycling 2ppm ammonia in 24 hours to nitrates - around 40ppm

For the last 5 weeks the tank has been nice and stable with constant 0,0,20 before a water change with fish

Any way, the question relates to another 30 litre tank I’m currently fishless cycling for a Betta.

Followed the same process, dosed Tetra safe start and 1ppm ammonia, but this time I’m seeing large nitrites and nitrates.

Nearly 4 weeks since cycle started and my 1ppm ammonia is clearing in 24 hours but I’m still seeing very high 5ppm nitrites and upwards of 80ppm nitrates.

I did a water change a few days ago and redosed to 1ppm daily, which is clearing in 24 hours and nitrites/nitrates have rocketed back to 5 & 80. Nitrites don't seem to be dropping, what’s the best course of action:

- Dose 0.5ppm ammonia daily
- Dont dose for a day or so to see if nitrites drop
- Any other suggestion

Ph is 7.4
Water temp is 28 degrees C

Having not dealt with nitrites in my larger tank, I’m looking for the best course of action in relation to ammonia doses/nitrite reduction

I would have thought with a large amount of nitrates, the nitrites would be dropping

Thanks in advance

I believe your tank is just still cycling. The bio-orb is just a ceramic media and should have no more impact on your cycle than any other inert substrate. If anything should provide more surface area for bacteria growth. Every tank cycles differently. You never said what filter media you are using. The media in your filter, that gets the highest water flow and oxygenation, is where the most effective part of your biological bacteria will grow. If the only media you've got in your filter is one of the factory mesh cartridges, i'd suggest putting as much of that bio-orb in the filter overflow as will fit. You can have tons of nitrobacter growing in your substrate but if it's not getting flow through it, those bacteria won't have access to the nitrites to process them.

 

Well I love a test so I test every day without fail - yep its a waste of cash on a test kit but it makes me feel better

Too be honest, I don't know when I tested for nitrites in relation to when I last added ammonia, for the last 2 weeks all ive seen is purple nitrites and extremely high nitrates, coupled with a steady drop in ammonia to now clearing 24 hours after adding

Of course at the minute, there's 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 20 nitrates..

I mean I can leave until this evening and test nitrites again...

I don't consider a test kit a waste of cash. For many years I didn't have one but now that I do I will never be caught without one.

Are you saying your nitrates are 20? You said they were 10 after the water change. I am wondering where they are coming from since you didn't add ammonia.

 

Thanks - the filter media is:

30 course sponge through to a 20, then into floss then bio rings

Part of the sponge & rings were pre seeded from my canister, although its not a huge amount in comparison

I don't consider a test kit a waste of cash. For many years I didn't have one but now that I do I will never be caught without one.

Are you saying your nitrates are 20? You said they were 10 after the water change. I am wondering where they are coming from since you didn't add ammonia.

Yeah I said 20, I think it was 20 from the start - the colours on the test kit are too bloody similar - it looks the same as post water change anyway!

 

Yeah I said 20, I think it was 20 from the start - the colours on the test kit are too bloody similar - it looks the same as post water change anyway!

Gotcha and I agree. 10 and 20 look the same to me too. Have you run the nitrate test on your source water?

 

Yeah, looks like 10 or is it 20 or maybe 10 - hence the reading post water change

 

Now that you have ammonia and nitrites down to zero and are not seeing any nitrites after several hours go ahead and add some ammonia. .5 should be enough at this time.

 

ok, just done another sanity test on nitrites - still 0 as below

0.5 ammonia added so lets see what happens - its all very exciting :/

 

Thanks - the filter media is:

30 course sponge through to a 20, then into floss then bio rings

Part of the sponge & rings were pre seeded from my canister, although its not a huge amount in comparison

Have you checked the sponges in the filter for 'gunk'? It might be a good idea to take them out and give them a good rinse and squeeze in some fresh dechlorinated water to make sure water is circulating through, rather than around them.
In regards to nitrites in a tank. If you have nitrobacter growing in your tank, with good circulation, and enough surface area for additional bacteria to attach to, it doesn't matter where nitrites are produced in the tank, bacteria will grow, over time, in quantities sufficient to oxidize those nitrites. Just a quick question: That looks like a submersible filter in your tank. What brand/size is it?

 

Its an Oase bioplus thermo 50

BioPlus 50 (42239) - OASE

No gunk to be seen in the foams, whipped them out to check when I changed the water this morning

What the pics don't show in the link is:

- The sponge at the bottom is fairly large and had space to place the second lesser course sponge in
- At the top underneath the filter outlet is another basket, it has floss in it which was quite thick so I replaced that in its basket with bio rings, probably fits around 40-50 rings in there of which 20 odd are from my canister

 

Its an Oase bioplus thermo 50

BioPlus 50 (42239) - OASE

No gunk to be seen in the foams, whipped them out to check when I changed the water this morning

What the pics don't show in the link is:

- The sponge at the bottom is fairly large and had space to place the second lesser course sponge in
- At the top underneath the filter outlet is another basket, it has floss in it which was quite thick so I replaced that in its basket with bio rings, probably fits around 40-50 rings in there of which 20 odd are from my canister

That's a nice filter. I was wondering, couldn't see it well in the pics. Oase has some nice products

 

Yeah about the only filter I could find that had integrated heater and a decent lph for a nano tank

most were pushing around 150/200lph which just isn’t enough when filled

Has a flow adjustment on spray bar/outlet aswell which helps with the planned betta (when it decides to cycle)

 

Ok so measured 12-14 hours after ammonia addition, pics below..

Ammonia dosed to 0.5, 12-14 hours later 0/0.2
Nitrite was 0 - 12-14 hours later 0.25

So it is still producing nitrite on ammonia addition but not without :/

 

Ok so measured 12-14 hours after ammonia addition, pics below..

Ammonia dosed to 0.5, 12-14 hours later 0/0.2
Nitrite was 0 - 12-14 hours later 0.25

So it is still producing nitrite on ammonia addition but not without :/

Your tank is still cycling. Ammonia is oxidized to nitrites. If there is no ammonia the will be no nitrites. Keep adding ammonia to 1 ppm, do water changes if nitrites start creeping over 3 ppm or nitrates get over 40 ppm. You've only been cycling that tank 4 weeks. It can take 4-8 weeks to cycle a tank. Turn your tank temp up to 82-84°F if it's not already. Is your tank pH staying well over 7.0? When a tank is cycling, the pH can fluctuate wildly. If it is dropping to or below 7.0, that can drastically slow bacterial growth. The ideal pH for cycling is ~7.5-8.4. You can temporarily fix a low pH to speed up cycling by adding 2/3 cup of crushed coral or aragonite, in a mesh media bag, to your filter overflow chamber. That might speed things up a bit.

 

I have to think both the addition of seeded media and the TSS in this tank failed and you are just going through the normal cycling process now.

Continue adding 1ppm ammonia and monitoring the tank. Do the water changes if the ammonia stops going down to zero within 24 hours. That is how I determine if a cycle has stopped moving forward.

 

Thanks both

Tested again this evening and nitrites were blue..

Added 1ppm ammonia and will check in the morning

 

Thanks both

Tested again this evening and nitrites were blue..

Added 1ppm ammonia and will check in the morning

Sounds like this tank is very close to cycled now.

 

Just to keep this update up and hopefully useful for others..

Overnight the 1ppm ammonia addition cleared to 0-0.2..

But Nitrites have shown again at 0.25

Nitrates are now quite high at to my eyes above 40 but not 80 so lets say 50

So I’m clearing 1ppm ammonia in around 12-14 hours but nitrite is increasing and not clearing alongside it

Ill leave ammonia as is for now and measure nitrite later on to assess a drop, or not