Questions Before I Start My Cycle

So, I’m following this thread on how to do ammonia cycle. “Add and wait” method.
Ammonia instructions for a fishless cycle
Will set to 85 degree F

It recommends to let tank sit a few days to settle cloudiness. With the light off, my tank looks clear.

When I turn lights on I can see some floating specs but they seem to be moving freely all around. Is this cloudy or the way it will always be? Also did I wash my flourite too much? Is it to clear and I washed away everything good?

Lastly, should I set up HOB before I add ammonia or should I get ammonia set up then add HOB?

Thanks and pics below

Light on close up


Light on away


Light off away

 

You don’t have to wait for the cloudiness to go away. Just add conditioner, turn your filter on, and add ammonia to 2ppm.

 

You don’t have to wait for the cloudiness to go away. Just add conditioner, turn your filter on, and add ammonia to 2ppm.

I’m using RO water so I don’t need conditioner right?

Also the instructions say to get ammonia to 5ppm. You suggest 2ppm?

 

Agreed, turn filter in first.

Love your hardscape.

I would also add a beneficial bacteria starter like TetraSafeStart.

2-4 ppm is the standard. Either way will work.

It kinda depends on how heavy you are going to stock the tank initially.

Once you are converting 2ppm ammonia in 24 hours, you can moderately stock your tank. At 4ppm, you can heavily stock it.

 

Love your hardscape.

Thanks. So much money on rocks! Can’t believe it but looks good.

 

In that case, if you’re using pure RO water you need to remineralize it. If you don’t your PH will be all over the place and acidic, which will stall your cycle.

 

In that case, if you’re using pure RO water you need to remineralize it. If you don’t your PH will be all over the place and acidic, which will stall your cycle.

Trying to do that. I just tested
0 (zero) ammonia, nitrite, nitrate
7.6 ph
The GH and KH tests were hard to read.
KH supposed to be blue to yellow. It was always super pale yellow from drop 1. I did up to five. Never was blue
GH same story. Supposed to be orange to green. Always super pale green. Did Like 5 or 6 drips. No change.

I knew this was the case and bought Equilibrium for GH and baking soda for KH. Not sure how much to add though. Thoughts?

 

That’s because the GH and KH are zero, so it never changes color.

Equilibrium and baking soda would work, I'm not sure how much of each you should add honestly.

 

If it was me I would add a teaspoon per gallon since you don’t have fish in it.

Then test.

Not sure why you’re using RO water, a 50/50 mix would give you GH/Kh and cost less.

Depends how bad your tap is.

 

If it was me I would add a teaspoon per gallon since you don’t have fish in it.

Then test.

Not sure why you’re using RO water, a 50/50 mix would give you GH/Kh and cost less.

Depends how bad your tap is.

I can't use tap water as I have a whole house water softner system that utilizes sodium (salt crystals). I then wondered why my pH is so high. Well, I have the artesian model of the RO system which adds, and I quote, "while adding good minerals to produce clean, pure mineral water with an Alkaline pH (pH 7.5 - 8.0) BPA Free."

So that is why my RO pH is high. I tested it and it is high, so something in my tank is bringing it back down to 7.6.

So my adventure continues. More hours of research have me concluded that I need to by two more chemicals.
Alkaline buffer and Acid buffer.

I need to get KH to 3 and keep pH close to 6.5 for ideal neon tetra's I guess. From what I read.

 

For baking soda, 30 mg per litre of water will raise dKH by 1 degree (equivalent to 17 .848 ppm CaCO3).

For Seachem Equilibrium, there's a calculator available on their website.

The issue with RO water is not necessarily related to the tank's pH: it's the lack of nutrients and other trace elements that are essential for bacteria metabolism and reproduction.

Most of these nutrients will provided by the addition of baking soda and Seachem Equilibrium with one exception: phosphorus.

Phosphorus is required for the synthesis of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), a chemical that provides energy for most cellular functions. Phosphorus (in the form of phosphate) deficiency is common enough in cycling to have its own name: "phosphate block".

To remedy that, you need to add a phosphate source. Either you can use a phosphate-based (phosphoric acid) acid regulator, for e.g. Seachem's Acid Regulator (this is different from the Acid Buffer product). Just dose very conservatively as you aren't seeking to achieve a pH shift: just merely to add a bit of phosphate.

Another option is to use a phosphate plant fertiliser, e.g. monopotassium phosphate. You can use Seachem's Phosphorus fert or the dry chemical compound that's sold by most LFS specialising in planted tanks.

 

For baking soda, 30 mg per litre of water will raise dKH by 1 degree (equivalent to 17 .848 ppm CaCO3).

For Seachem Equilibrium, there's a calculator available on their website.

The issue with RO water is not necessarily related to the tank's pH: it's the lack of nutrients and other trace elements that are essential for bacteria metabolism and reproduction.

Most of these nutrients will provided by the addition of baking soda and Seachem Equilibrium with one exception: phosphorus.

Phosphorus is required for the synthesis of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), a chemical that provides energy for most cellular functions. Phosphorus (in the form of phosphate) deficiency is common enough in cycling to have its own name: "phosphate block".

To remedy that, you need to add a phosphate source. Either you can use a phosphate-based (phosphoric acid) acid regulator, for e.g. Seachem's Acid Regulator (this is different from the Acid Buffer product). Just dose very conservatively as you aren't seeking to achieve a pH shift: just merely to add a bit of phosphate.

Another option is to use a phosphate plant fertiliser, e.g. monopotassium phosphate. You can use Seachem's Phosphorus fert or the dry chemical compound that's sold by most LFS specialising in planted tanks.

I wish I could give you more than 1 "thanks" for this. VERY helpful.

I'm headed to LFS today to get the Seachem alkaline buffer and acid buffer. I'll also pick up some Phosphorus fert as I will be doing planted tank also. Man, it is gonna be 2 months before I get fish. My kids are driving me crazy asking if we can add the fish yet. I'm also going to test pH and KH before I leave. I want to see if the rocks in my tank are doing anything. Something in my tank reduced the RO water pH almost a full point lower.

 

Seachem and acid buffer

I only just re-read the thread thoroughly and noticed that your RO water remineralises it: it would be worth finding out what minerals are being added (i.e. carbonate salts, metal salts, etc.). At least, a GH and KH test would help to get a general idea of the parameters.

I suppose, strictly speaking, RO water ceases to be RO water when it's remineralised as we generally expect 0 TDS, 0 GH, 0 KH.

In addition, your pH is quite middle-of-the-road. I don't think that adjusting your pH with either the alkaline buffer and acid regulator is necessary. The exception is if you're keeping fish with a known pH preference (and I would cross-check that with any information from breeders/authorities on that fish species).

 

I only just re-read the thread thoroughly and noticed that your RO water remineralises it: it would be worth finding out what minerals are being added (i.e. carbonate salts, metal salts, etc.). At least, a GH and KH test would help to get a general idea of the parameters.

I suppose, strictly speaking, RO water ceases to be RO water when it's remineralised as we generally expect 0 TDS, 0 GH, 0 KH.

In addition, your pH is quite middle-of-the-road. I don't think that adjusting your pH with either the alkaline buffer and acid regulator is necessary. The exception is if you're keeping fish with a known pH preference (and I would cross-check that with any information from breeders/authorities on that fish species).

I did a GH/KH test. Both zero I believe. I kept adding drops and the colors never changed. I'm bring a sample to the LFS to confirm my findings.

Here is what I posted before. I hope I did the test right.
KH supposed to be blue to yellow. It was always super pale yellow from drop 1. I did up to five. Never was blue
GH same story. Supposed to be orange to green. Always super pale green. Did Like 5 or 6 drips. No change.

Also, I heard that adding alkaline buffer increases both KH and pH. Might as well buy both while I'm there. Starting out with small containers. Figured I'd add Alkaline buffer first and then test for KH, GH and buffer. Depending on what comes, then acid buffer and or equilibrium. There is nothing in my tank except rocks and substrate, so I can't kill anything yet.

Thanks again.

This is what my RO website says it remineralizes. My filter is at a year old and I have a spare. Maybe it is time to replace.

From website of my RO
The Home Master Artesian -- Full Contact Reverse Osmosis System produces Alkaline Mineral Water on Tap by first stripping the water clean, removing 98% of contaminants using the reverse osmosis (RO) process, then channeling the water through the advanced remineralization filter twice using our patented Full Contact Technology to rejuvenate and restore 30-60 mg/L calcium and magnesium minerals. Its an entirely natural process - just like rainwater passing through the earth. This Full Contact technology creates the best drinking water, coffee and tea you will ever have. Guaranteed or your money back.

Sorry for all posts
So I just test tank pH and RO pH. I’m getting frustrated. First pic is the tank water. It is only RO water. Nothing else. No chemicals, conditioner etc

The second pic is RO water from my tap. I SWEAR last night it was purple! I tested it like 3 times last night because I couldn’t believe it. And yes I know there is a high and low ph test. I tested RO with both high and low test now. It was light brown on the high.

I’m getting really frustrated. RO is supposed to be more consistent!!!!!

Tank water



RO tap

 

I see your frustration. The RO water should look more like the tank water, close to 7.0.

Hopefully someone that knows RO systems will jump in here.

I wonder how high it really is? High PH test?

 

I wonder how high it really is? High ?

There are two test kits in the API test kit. One for under 7.6 pH and one for over 7.4 pH. The purple color can only be seen using the “high pH test”.

 

So, I just got back from 2 LFS. I’m hope these guys know what they are doing but I’m not sure. First place didn’t have alkaline buffer. Said I didn’t need it. I said my KH is zero. I explained I’m using RO. So they tried to sell me a ton of other products and said pH of 8 would be fine. Said they are all tank fish, unless you buy wild you don’t need to worry.

The next place, they guy was a know it all. Said I have to have sand, all these ferts, and plants. I kept trying to explain, I’m new and want to do my cycle. He kept worrying about plants, which I don’t have. Well, they had the buffer and I bought so at least I can try to see how to increase KH and then test KH/GH and then see if I can increase GH with Equilibrium. Then if ok, I guess add my ammonia to finally try and start my cycle.

This is waaaay harder than I imagine. I feel like an apothecary now.

ops: I went to Seachem's website to see calculator. I put 17 gallons and 3 goal. Said I needed 2.5 tsp.

Well, yeah.......units..........3 was in meq/L so I just put in enough to get it to 8 dKH, which should have been 143ppm, but I just tested and it is even worse. 10 drop so 10 dKH or 180ppm. I just *^$%ed my tank.

I also added Equilibrium. Screwed that up too. I put in too much, but this time, I'm not getting a reading on my test that it is even hard.

Anyone want to buy a complete 20 gallon long aquarium setup with lots of chemicals and testing equipment?

Think I'm going to get a beer and go for a walk now.

 

Also, I heard that adding increases both KH and .

Alkaline buffers are simply a mixture of carbonate salts: calcium carbonate (i.e. crushed coral), sodium bicarbonate (i.e. baking soda), sodium carbonate, potassium carbonate.

Anything that raises KH (i.e. carbonate salt concentration) will also raise pH. "Alkaline buffers" and "KH boosters" are generally one and the same product. You can achieve the same effect, at much less cost, by using baking soda.

Full Contact Technology to rejuvenate and restore 30-60 mg/L calcium and magnesium minerals.

Upon further reading, it seems that RO water remineralisers use magnesium hydroxide Mg(OH)2 and calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2. This should have the effect of raising your GH and pH without affecting your KH.

RO is supposed to be more consistent

I'm not sure why your water parameters are fluctuating. That your RO water previously tested alkaline with 0 GH doesn't string together (in my mind at least) given that the remineraliser is using hydroxide salts which both raises pH and GH. Likewise, I'm not sure why your water would test less alkaline at this point.

I suspect that your remineraliser might be in need of servicing. Ideally, you'll want to bypass it. Or you can simply use a cheap, low-volume, single-stage RO filter under your sink to demineralise your remineralised RO water (if that makes sense): it's a lot easier to adjust parameters when you're dealing with RO water that has as little dissolved material as possible.

10 drop so 10 dKH or 180ppm.

I put in too much, but this time, I'm not getting a reading on my test that it is even hard.

That dKH, while hard, isn't anywhere near sufficient to cause any issues in fishless cycling. My dKH reached 16 at one point during my fishless cycle as I was using baking soda to try and minimise the pH swing from CO2 injection (in retrospect, it would've just been easier to not inject CO2 while cycling).

If you do 2 separate 50% water changes, it'll bring the dKH to 2.5: a very acceptable, low-range figure.

What GH result, specifically, are you receiving?

 

What GH result, specifically, are you receiving?

The GH test is very confusing to me. Adding a drop is supposed to make it orange and then you add to make it green. That green drop is the indicator. Well, mine seems to turn it SUPER light yellow on the first drop and then never changes. I put in a stupid amount of drops, no color change. Maybe I need to give the Equilibrium more time to dissolve or something.

BTW, I truly appreciate your replies and help. Thank you so much.

 

The test is very confusing to me. Adding a drop is supposed to make it orange and then you add to make it green. That green drop is the indicator. Well, mine seems to turn it SUPER light yellow on the first drop and then never changes. I put in a stupid amount of drops, no color change. Maybe I need to give the more time to dissolve or something.

You shouldn't need to wait for Equilibrium to dissolve: most of the compounds are sulfate salts (e.g. magnesium sulfate MgSO4 and calcium sulfate CaSO4) with a very high solubility in water. If I remember, Seachem Equilibrium does recommend that you mix your dose in a bottle of water and then add it to the tank. After that, you do need to give it 15 minutes to hour (depending on your flow rate) to actually circulate around in the water.

With the GH test, it's worthwhile to give the test tube a quick (2 seconds), vigorous shake after adding each drop. But if it's showing yellow,

In addition, the "orange" colour description is probably a yellow depending on your own individual colour perception. I find it a yellow-ish orange. of a 9 drop GH titration test and the colour changes. The colour change, depending on your room lighting and background, can be very subtle. I find it best to hold it up against a piece of white paper with a bright light.

Can you try testing your GH test kit on a bottle of mineral water? It should, hopefully, show a quicker colour transition.

If, after that, you're confident that your tank water is remaining yellow despite adding 20+ drops (and that it's not a manufacturing problem with your test kit), it's likely that you overdosed on Equilibrium. Again, just do 2 (or more) 50% water changes to dilute it down

I feel that a lot of your woes are associated with your remineraliser. It purports to add 30-60 mg/l of Mg2+ and Ca2+, and that would result in 2-4 dGH, yet your initial tests of your tap water show 0 GH.

Again, I would really encourage you to bypass it or to install a second RO filter to nullify the effects of the remineraliser.

 

Can you try testing your GH on a bottle of mineral water?

Here is my direct RO. first pic is no drops, then +1 to +8
It seems to go from green to darker green. There is no yellow/orange. Am I color blind? I didn't think so.



Side note, this test kit sucks a little. Each time I remove the cap, a drop comes out down the side of the tube.

Here is the titration pic you provided in your earlier post. I see no orange in mine.

 

It seems to go from green to darker green. There is no yellow/orange. Am I color blind? I didn't think so.

The photo definitely helps! Since it turns green at more-or-less the first (possibly the second, it's unclear from my computer's rendering of the colour) drop, it's safe to assume that the GH test is working fine as this is expected when using RO water. If this is the RO water with the effect of the remineraliser, it's probably an indication that the remineraliser isn't providing much mineral content (possibly exhausted?).

The GH test can be truly awful to use. Another way of more accurately gauging the colour transition is to place the test tube bottom down on a piece of white paper, and look down at the sample's water surface (with bright background lighting).

In any case, you mentioned that your test tube didn't change from yellow to green after adding Equilibrium. Because your GH test seems to be functioning fine, my impression is that you merely overdosed Equilibrium. Again, not a dangerous thing as none of those compounds are particularly toxic. It's easily diluted with a few 50% water changes.

 

I just did the same for my aquarium water which I treated with KH and GH (alkaline buffer and equilibrium). More equilibrium than I thought I needed!

First pic is 0 drops then +1.... I can see slight yellow (maybe orange, the first 2 drops, then light green and darker green. You can see with each drop the level goes down due to crappy cap removing a drop of liquid each time I remove the cap. They should have a rubber stopper and not this external cap cover.

 

Because your GH test seems to be functioning fine, my impression is that you merely overdosed Equilibrium.

With this test, why do you think I overdose Equilibrium? It seems I'm at 3 dGH if my picture is accurate. I did overdose the KH......Ugh.

EDIT:
and the the thought did cross my mind that the rematerialized has been exhausted. It has been a year, which is why I reordered the filters. They showed up right after my aquarium was refilled (auto renewal by amazon).

 

Oh that's definitely a 3 dGH.

The distinction between yellow/orange isn't so important: it varies from aquarist to aquarist depending on background lighting and individual colour perception (and also computer rendering whenever we share our results over the internet). I see the 2nd drop as a solid orange for example.

More important is the transition to green: to me, there's a very clear change to green on the addition of the 3rd drop.

 

With this test, why do you think I overdose ? It seems I'm at 3 dGH if my picture is accurate. I did overdose the ......Ugh.

No, no! I interpreted your posts incorrectly: you didn't overdose GH. In fact, you can probably add a bit more, people typically aI'm for 5-6 GH as a sort of mid-ground that covers most fish/aquatic plants.

 

No, no! I interpreted your posts incorrectly: you didn't overdose GH. In fact, you can probably add a bit more, people typically aI'm for 5-6 GH as a sort of mid-ground that covers most fish/aquatic plants.

*whew*

Picture taking helps. Taking them in the dark with a bright light helps too. Need to remember that. Thanks for your help from down under.

 

Finally dosed my ammonia. Found a calculator online. Very accurate. I was shooting for 3ppm and I think I hit it first try.