Questions about apistos, maybe other dwarf cichlids

This is going to be a long thread for context so bear with me (scroll down to get to the point :
I’ve always loved the appearance of cichlids and they are somewhat a dream fish of mine, but i’ve never felt confident in my skills or the time i may not have to care for them. So far i’ve stuck with common, very hardy community fish. (angelfish, platies, mollies, plecos, danios, etc)
A few months ago i rearranged the decor in my 50 gal and asked what new fish is recommended, since i only have 4 fish left and wanted to restock. I still haven’t restocked as I became busy with university shortly after that thread was posted. Now i’m done with school for the summer.

Finally, to the point:

It was recommended to me that the apistogramma dwarf cichlid, specifically the double red, are easier to care for compared to other cichlids and might be a great addition to my community. I got so excited, but then went to do further research and found they still require conditions quite specific and parameters that don’t match my water. My list of issues include:

- high pH, around 7.5 or higher, and hard water.

- not a very shallow tank, it’s a bow front

- gravel substrate, not sand as it is mentioned they prefer.

-the tank won’t be heavily planted but eventually will have significant coverage with decor and *mostly* artificial silk plants.

- community fish that require slightly different parameters, to my knowledge. ( right now i’ve got an angelfish, two danios, and a small common pleco i’m trying to rehome because eventually the tank will be too small for it. i’ve been trying to find a happy medium that sits between my different species’ requirements, but they are also hardy fish and can handle slightly different conditions)


I am planning on ‘rescaping’ this tank with new decor and a mix of real and fake plants but don’t plan on replacing the gravel as it cost a lot to buy the amount i needed to cover the bottom.
Is the double red apisto really the right fish for my tank? Do they really have requirements as specific as i’ve read? I’d want them to thrive as much as my other community fish. I’m not interested in breeding.
If not, are there any other peaceful dwarf cichlids that have requirements that better match my tank and water parameters? Or would it be better to stick with “easier” community fish?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated

 

A tank bred Apistogramma should be able to adjust to your parameters but they are not ideal. Also, the Apistogramma double red you are considering can be quite aggressive, I have read stories on here of them nipping Angel’s fins.
Have you considered a Kribensis? They are perfect for your parameters hardier and adapt easier. The female is the aggressive one so just get one male and you will have the beautiful colors and the fun to watch cichlid behavior.

 

A tank bred Apistogramma should be able to adjust to your parameters but they are not ideal. Also, the Apistogramma double red you are considering can be quite aggressive, I have read stories on here of them nipping Angel’s fins.
Have you considered a Kribensis? They are perfect for your parameters hardier and adapt easier. The female is the aggressive one so just get one male and you will have the beautiful colors and the fun to watch cichlid behavior.

Thanks for the input, i looked at the kribensis care sheet and they look really cool; would i be able to get multiple males or will they fight amongst themselves? I was hoping to get more than one cichlid in my tank, considering the size.

 

In a 50 gallon you can have 2 males if you you have plants and driftwood to break line of sight as well as rocks that form caves, that way they can claim their own corner when they need to get away from each other. If that doesn’t work you can bring one back to the store.
You could also get another centerpiece fish instead that will occupy the top of the tank since the Kribensis will claim the bottom. A beautiful pearl gourami comes to mind, like the one in my avatar.

 

In a 50 gallon you can have 2 males if you you have plants and driftwood to break line of sight as well as rocks that form caves, that way they can claim their own corner when they need to get away from each other. If that doesn’t work you can bring one back to the store.
You could also get another centerpiece fish instead that will occupy the top of the tank since the Kribensis will claim the bottom. A beautiful pearl gourami comes to mind, like the one in my avatar.

I love pearl gouramis, i had a couple last year but they both passed for unknown reasons :/ definitely made me laugh because of their feelers and the way they utilize them because of curiosity. I’ve been thinking of getting more but in one of my other threads someone advised against gouramis altogether. I don’t remember their reasoning as to why… will have to look back to find it

 

If you mentioned a dwarf gourami you were probably warned that because of their popularity they are overbred and now very susceptible to dwarf gourami disease that leads to death. But you are ok with pearl gouramis. They are a very hardy fish. Other considerations might be the paradise gourami or a Boesemani Rainbowfish.

 

I think that Apistogramma cacatuoides would be fine with your water parameters, but they would really need a sand substrate.

Another option to consider would be one of the Laetacara species, you could keep a pair, I think they are pretty adaptable as far as water parameters and they don't. sift the sand as much as Apistogrammas. I have L. araguaiae, they breed very easily but are not successful at rearing fry in a community tank. L.dorsigera and L. curviceps are also sometime available and probably have similar behaviour and requirements.

This is one of my males (female behind):

 

I think that Apistogramma cacatuoides would be fine with your water parameters, but they would really need a sand substrate.

Another option to consider would be one of the Laetacara species, you could keep a pair, I think they are pretty adaptable as far as water parameters and they don't. sift the sand as much as Apistogrammas. I have L. araguaiae, they breed very easily but are not successful at rearing fry in a community tank. L.dorsigera and L. curviceps are also sometime available and probably have similar behaviour and requirements.

This is one of my males (female behind):
View attachment 846484

Beautiful fish! my substrate is my biggest concern, i would hate to get a pair of any cichlid only to have them damage their fins by trying to sift gravel
Lovely suggestion, thank you
I’d have to see what’s available in the nearby city, though i heard a new aquatic pet “supermarket” is opening soon with 400 tanks and around 500 different species of fish. Sounds promising indeed.

 

Beautiful fish! my substrate is my biggest concern, i would hate to get a pair of any cichlid only to have them damage their fins by trying to sift gravel
Lovely suggestion, thank you
I’d have to see what’s available in the nearby city, though i heard a new aquatic pet “supermarket” is opening soon with 400 tanks and around 500 different species of fish. Sounds promising indeed.

I should have said Laetacara might be sold as dwarf flag cichlid or smiling acara.

 

Then go window shopping and come back here before you buy if you need advice. Have a great time, this is the best part of fish keeping, enjoy yourself, only thing to remember is when you buy a fish you are responsible for it for a long time.

 

Then go window shopping and come back here before you buy if you need advice. Have a great time, this is the best part of fish keeping, enjoy yourself, only thing to remember is when you buy a fish you are responsible for it for a long time.

Absolutely. I’ve been fishkeeping for many years but the cichlid species is entirely new to me and i feel like i’ve just started again.
To be honest, i’m not yet entirely sure if i’m going to go through with it. Haven’t made any final decisions yet, but i’m hoping if not soon then in future years i’ll be able and comfortable caring for many different cichlids including the dwarfs
Still open to suggestions and any advice, it’s greatly appreciated on my end

 

Now that i’ve made a thread about fish suggestions, I’m also wondering what are some ideal small schooling fish that aren’t fin-nippers?

 

Anoth suggestion is Apistogramma cacatuoides or the cockatoo dwarf cichlid. I recently had a pair of these and they lived happily with my guppies. The make is beautiful to look at.

Also, you do realise that the Angle Fish is a Cichlid right lol?

 

Also, you do realise that the Angle Fish is a Cichlid right lol?

Yes, I meant to say that yesterday! And not necessarily one of the easier ones to keep....

Apistogrammas were discussed but the OP has gravel not sand, Apistogrammas and Bolivian rams really should have a sand substrate.

 

Yes, I meant to say that yesterday! And not necessarily one of the easier ones to keep....

Apistogrammas were discussed but the OP has gravel not sand, Apistogrammas and Bolivian rams really should have a sand substrate.

Sand OR a planted base. My tank is covered in a carpet of Monte Carlo and this works fine as well. They also love shrimp so keep that in mind as well if you plan to have them in the tank as... I learnt this the hard way.

 

Now that i’ve made a thread about fish suggestions, I’m also wondering what are some ideal small schooling fish that aren’t fin-nippers?

Pencilfish as a first choice. Many tetras don’t nip fins if they are in big enough groups - which appeal to you most? Neón tetras or black neons or green neons would all be good, some of the smaller red Hyphessobrycon species, emperor tetras (though they are a bit bigger) any of these should be fine, there are many more of course. As well as various rasbora species.

 

Yes, I meant to say that yesterday! And not necessarily one of the easier ones to keep....

Apistogrammas were discussed but the OP has gravel not sand, Apistogrammas and Bolivian rams really should have a sand substrate.

About the angels, i guess I should’ve clarified. What i mean by ‘easy’ is mostly the fact that i don’t need to change my water parameters or any decor/substrate in order for the fish i typically keep to thrive, because the same water i’ve had for years lies under the recommended requirements for the fish i’ve kept thus far.
Also, the angels i’ve kept so far haven’t really shown any aggression toward each other or the other fish and are moderately hardy so i often forget they’re cichlids lol
yeah, Im aware they are cichlids, but by my experience they never required me to change any major things like many other cichlids I would like to eventually keep when i have the time. I also have a lot more experience with angels so I guess that’s what i also mean by ‘easy’. Trying an entirely new species, especially a new cichlid species… I find quite intimidating for some reason

Pencilfish as a first choice. Many tetras don’t nip fins if they are in big enough groups - which appeal to you most? Neón tetras or black neons or green neons would all be good, some of the smaller red Hyphessobrycon species, emperor tetras (though they are a bit bigger) any of these should be fine, there are many more of course. As well as various rasbora species.

I love the look of harlequin rasboras, as well as emperor tetras. Also neon and black neon tetras but they’re too small and my angel will likely see them as food since he’s gotten quite big already :/ (I’m aware angels shouldn’t be kept alone, his buddy passed away and i plan on getting another with my next stocking) That being said, I’d like a rather big school for my 50 gallon to fill in the “blanks” (of course this doesn’t mean overstocking but just for visual satisfaction) between all the individual fish i plan to get
added note: Took a look at a picture of pencilfish, i like the look of these as well. I’m not too familiar with them though, what is their recommended water parameters and temp?

 

Pencilfish prefer soft water but should be OK with your parameters and temperature range. This is what Seriously fish gives for Beckfords pemcilfish which is probably the most commonly available:

Temperature: 21 – 27 °C

pH: 5.0 – 8.0, though wild fish may do best towards the lower end of this range.

Hardness: 18 – 268 ppm; notes for wild fish as per pH.

I have mine at 26 degrees C and pH 6.6-6.8. Very soft water.

 

Pencilfish prefer soft water but should be OK with your parameters and temperature range. This is what Seriously fish gives for Beckfords pemcilfish which is probably the most commonly available:

Temperature: 21 – 27 °C

pH: 5.0 – 8.0, though wild fish may do best towards the lower end of this range.

Hardness: 18 – 268 ppm; notes for wild fish as per pH.

I have mine at 26 degrees C and pH 6.6-6.8. Very soft water.

Thanks a lot for this info, unfortunately i believe my tap water is quite hard but it’s not measured in ppm in the report so I’m wondering if anyone knows how to calculate 182 mg CaCO3/L?? That’s what’s written for total hardness of the tap water in my city. Apologies if not knowing too much about hardness is ignorant of me…

 

Thanks a lot for this info, unfortunately i believe my tap water is quite hard but it’s not measured in ppm in the report so I’m wondering if anyone knows how to calculate 182 mg CaCO3/L?? That’s what’s written for total hardness of the tap water in my city. Apologies if not knowing too much about hardness is ignorant of me…

Over 180 mg/L is classified as very hard, so yes, unfortunately hard water.

 

Over 180 mg/L is classified as very hard, so yes, unfortunately hard water.

Thought so maybe a tetra is a better option for a schooling fish then. That being said, I know angelfish tend to prefer softer water but the ones i’ve had have all done just fine in my city water.
I’ve noticed that opinions are so different when it comes the the importance of water hardness and its impacts on fish, so at times i’m not sure where or what to look at

 

I know what you mean, it can be confusing. It is probably not so important for angelfish and others that have been captive bred for generations. However it’s best to choose fish that are best suited to your water.