Question about using Furan-2

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starrynight2331

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Hey guys,

A few days ago my betta suddenly got sick and died, and I didn’t know what it was. It moved too fast in the first place: Day one, slight light grey patches, didn’t think anything of it; day two, mouth and parts of body severely covered in light grey and grey; day three, gone. After more research I figured out it was Columnaris. One of my catfish has the grey slime on him as well, and I’m treating the tank as soon as the meds are delivered tonight. He seems ok, so I’m confident I’ll get him in time. It seems like it only moved fast in my betta. :-(

here’s my question: What do I do with the filter? I have a mesh bag filled with ceramic media—no carbon. Should I remove it and keep it in a ziplock for all 8 days of treatment, or just leave it in? I don’t know if the furan-2 will only kill the bad bacteria or if it will wipe everything. This is a new tank and it is completely healthy and cycled—near perfect parameters. I want to preserve that as the old tank is in a closet.

Thanks y’all :)
 
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RomanNoodles96

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starrynight2331 said:
Hey guys,

A few days ago my betta suddenly got sick and died, and I didn’t know what it was. It moved too fast in the first place: Day one, slight light grey patches, didn’t think anything of it; day two, mouth and parts of body severely covered in light grey and grey; day three, gone. After more research I figured out it was Columnaris. One of my catfish has the grey slime on him as well, and I’m treating the tank as soon as the meds are delivered tonight. He seems ok, so I’m confident I’ll get him in time. It seems like it only moved fast in my betta. :-(

here’s my question: What do I do with the filter? I have a mesh bag filled with ceramic media—no carbon. Should I remove it and keep it in a ziplock for all 8 days of treatment, or just leave it in? I don’t know if the furan-2 will only kill the bad bacteria or if it will wipe everything. This is a new tank and it is completely healthy and cycled—near perfect parameters. I want to preserve that as the old tank is in a closet.

Thanks y’all :)
Furan 2 shouldn't kill your good bacteria, but it may end up killing your fish. This medicine has worked for me in the past, but some say it has killed their fish. Can we get pictures to confirm its columnaris?
 
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starrynight2331

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RomanNoodles96 said:
Furan 2 shouldn't kill your good bacteria, but it may end up killing your fish. This medicine has worked for me in the past, but some say it has killed their fish. Can we get pictures to confirm its columnaris?
Yes, I have pictures of my betta the day before he died. The day he died he was covered in grey-white stuff and his fins were dark and frayed at the ends.

The catfish is a lot harder to see and I couldn’t snap a picture, but on his left side he has a thin, grey, fuzzy slime. A few of the new harlequin Rasboras I got are also pale—I got one pic of one of them. They move so fast!

Managed to get two shots just now! It’s VERY visible from a side view.
 

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RomanNoodles96

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starrynight2331 said:
Yes, I have pictures of my betta the day before he died. The day he died he was covered in grey-white stuff and his fins were dark and frayed at the ends.

The catfish is a lot harder to see and I couldn’t snap a picture, but on his left side he has a thin, grey, fuzzy slime. A few of the new harlequin Rasboras I got are also pale—I got one pic of one of them. They move so fast!
That definitely sounds like columnaris. When the meds come tell me how treatment goes.

starrynight2331 said:
Managed to get two shots just now! It’s VERY visible from a side view.
Kinda hard to see from the pictures but from what you are describing it sounds like it.
 
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starrynight2331

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RomanNoodles96 said:
That definitely sounds like columnaris. When the meds come tell me how treatment goes.
Much thanks! It sure sounds like it to me too. I’ll keep this thread updated. :)

Meds just administered a few minutes ago. I have a little notepad with all the doses and changes I need to do. Here goes nothin.
 

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RomanNoodles96 said:
Furan 2 shouldn't kill your good bacteria, but it may end up killing your fish. This medicine has worked for me in the past, but some say it has killed their fish. Can we get pictures to confirm its columnaris?
Mmmm from the API-site.
 

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Meds just administered a few minutes ago. I have a little notepad with all the doses and changes I need to do. Here goes nothin.
DoubleDutch said:
Mmmm from the API-site.
Should I keep the same filter and media in a ziplock and reuse it later or will it just reintroduce the infection? I assume it’ll just recontaminate and that I should toss it.
 
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DoubleDutch said:
Mmmm from the API-site.
Api says that, but I dont remember who but someone on here explained how it doesn't. I've used it in a tank 4 courses and it didn't kill my cycle at all.

starrynight2331 said:
Meds just administered a few minutes ago. I have a little notepad with all the doses and changes I need to do. Here goes nothin.

Should I keep the same filter and media in a ziplock and reuse it later or will it just reintroduce the infection? I assume it’ll just recontaminate and that I should toss it.
Keep the media in unless its carbon. It didn't harm my cycle at all and an expert on this forum explained how It won't kill your good bacteria. I would be shocked if it does end up killing your good bacteria.
 
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RomanNoodles96 said:
Keep the media in unless its carbon. It didn't harm my cycle at all and an expert on this forum explained how It won't kill your good bacteria. I would be shocked if it does end up killing your good bacteria.
Okay, that sounds cool with me. I haven’t used carbon in a very long time—just mesh bags with ceramic tube thingies from fluval.
 
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RomanNoodles96 said:
Keep the media in unless its carbon. It didn't harm my cycle at all and an expert on this forum explained how It won't kill your good bacteria. I would be shocked if it does end up killing your good bacteria.
But if it kills gram negative and positive and the manifacturer warns for the filterbacteria I don't exactly understand why it doesn't.
 
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I’m super confused :confused: I had already left it in for an hour but took it back out and it’s in a ziplock again. Just super confused haha.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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DoubleDutch said:
But if it kills gram negative and positive and the manifacturer warns for the filterbacteria I don't exactly understand why it doesn't.
I can't explain it myself, but if you surf through threads on different forums (including this one) you will find people have used furan-2 with no problems with their bio filter. I'm not lying I have done 6 courses of furan 2 and not once has my cycled crashed.
 
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RomanNoodles96 said:
I can't explain it myself, but if you surf through threads on different forums (including this one) you will find people have used furan-2 with no problems with their bio filter. I'm not lying I have done 6 courses of furan 2 and not once has my cycled crashed.
Ohhh I don't say your lying, but it sounds so weird the manufacturer itself mentions this.
sounds like the other way around.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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DoubleDutch said:
Ohhh I don't say your lying, but it sounds so weird the manufacturer itself mentions this.
sounds like the other way around.
Its all good. If op wants to take precautions just in case that's also good.
 
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Latest update is that I’ve lost more fish. I lost 2/3 tequila sunrise guppies, and 2/7 harlequins. The catfish are all ok and the snails are too, but the catfish that’s got the most “grey slime” has not lost any of the slime coating, it looks the same.

Im straight up going to go back to PetSmart today to ask for all my money back for these recent fish and won’t accept no for an answer. I’ve never had an issue with pet shops but this time was horrible. There’s one Petco that’s scrupulously clean and I’ll only go there in the future if not a real breeder (I’m broke which is the only reason I’ve ever done pet shops). I’m so frustrated. I just feel bad for my betta, he was my first fish ever and he was completely healthy before I added fish. :-(
 
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Bettas are notorious Oodinium magnets. In the mid to later stages of the disease the infected fish begins to secrete slime, apparently its bodies immune reaction.
Perhaps the white patches on the Betta where not areas of dead tissue associated with Columnaris, but were areas of secreted slime.
IMO, Copper Sulfate is the best med against Oodinium. Not safe with invertebrates.
IMO, not a good idea to use antibiotics for the treatment of fish.
 
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starrynight2331

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A201 said:
Bettas are notorious Oodinium magnets. In the mid to later stages of the disease the infected fish begins to secrete slime, apparently its bodies immune reaction.
Perhaps the white patches on the Betta where not areas of dead tissue associated with Columnaris, but were areas of secreted slime.
IMO, Copper Sulfate is the best med against Oodinium. Not safe with invertebrates.
IMO, not a good idea to use antibiotics for the treatment of fish.
Well, I’m headed to the pet store today anyway. Can I do a 25% water change and just switch to copper? Do I need to use carbon first? I’ve never used a lot of this stuff. I just want them to stop dying. And can I remove the snails and put them back? Will they be carriers? How can I make the water safe for them after treatment?
 
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AvalancheDave

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Noga's book suggests that velvet is a slow killer. I'm not sure you have velvet.
 
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AvalancheDave said:
Noga's book suggests that velvet is a slow killer. I'm not sure you have velvet.
Columnaris isn’t another name for velvet right? That’s what we came to as the diagnosis.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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A201

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I've only had to deal with Velvet / Oodinium one time in over three decades of fish keeping.
I found the disease to progress relatively quick & can be a true tank killer. The Oodinium parasite's gold or yellow coloration is initially hard to see unless viewed under subdued lighting.
A 50% WC & removing carbon from the filter would be a good idea prior to dosing Copper Sulfate.
Med brands include Coppersafe or Cupramine. Coppersafe is chelated, and is a more stable product. Cupramine isn't, but can easily be removed out of the water column with carbon. Coppersafe is removed gradually with WC's.
 
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starrynight2331

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A201 said:
I've only had to deal with Velvet / Oodinium one time in over three decades of fish keeping.
I found the disease to progress relatively quick & can be a true tank killer. The Oodinium parasite's gold or yellow coloration is initially hard to see unless viewed under subdued lighting.
A 50% WC & removing carbon from the filter would be a good idea prior to dosing Copper Sulfate.
Med brands include Coppersafe or Cupramine. Coppersafe is chelated, and is a more stable product. Cupramine isn't, but can easily be removed out of the water column with carbon. Coppersafe is removed gradually with WC's.
Okay, thank you. I’ll have to figure out what to do with my snails, I don’t have another tank anymore.

Im feeling those sads y’all. Hoping it all works out from here.
 
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Hang in there. Just about everyone in the hobby has had to deal with similar situations. Things will get better.
What I have learned about treating sick fish is "Prevention". Its by far the best med.
The ability to select strong healthy fish & to provide a well cycled tank environment are the key elements.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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A201 said:
Hang in there. Just about everyone in the hobby has had to deal with similar situations. Things will get better.
What I have learned about treating sick fish is "Prevention". Its by far the best med.
The ability to select strong healthy fish & to provide a well cycled tank environment are the key elements.
I 100% agree. Always quarantine, deworm, and chose the healthiest looking fish at the store.
 
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Thanks guys. I guess I need to invest in a 5 or 10 gallon for a quarantine tank and google easy builds. What do you recommend for prevention meds? I always have general cure on hand but idek if that’s even a good choice.

I miss my betta a lot but I don’t think I’ll have one again for a while. On the bright side I’ll be able to buy more plants with the petsmart refund. (Which, like I said, I refuse to leave without.)
 
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RomanNoodles96

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starrynight2331 said:
Thanks guys. I guess I need to invest in a 5 or 10 gallon for a quarantine tank and google easy builds. What do you recommend for prevention meds? I always have general cure on hand but idek if that’s even a good choice.

I miss my betta a lot but I don’t think I’ll have one again for a while. On the bright side I’ll be able to buy more plants with the petsmart refund. (Which, like I said, I refuse to leave without.)
Prazipro is what I use. I always use prazipro and was thinking of getting fenbandazole (probably spelt that wrong) flakes as a prevention. Mainly you will catch bacterial infection or fungus, but internal parasites can be in the fish with no signs for a while.
 
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Just got home from school—here’s my latest photos.

The harlequins are holding on. They get extremely pale after the dose and then their color comes back later. The last tequila sunrise is also ok right now.

All of the cories are fine looking except one peppered Cory. He has very very little white-ish bulges sticking out of him now. I got a side by side of the two julii cories. You can see the one has a very strong fuzzy grey cast and the other doesn’t. All of them are acting normal.

I’ve also noticed that the glass has a white film on it, like little tiny dots all over the place.
 

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AvalancheDave

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Nitrofuran is light sensitive, BTW.
 
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AvalancheDave said:
Nitrofuran is light sensitive, BTW.
Oh lord. Ok. I didn’t know. Did I ruin it by keeping lights on?
 
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starrynight2331 said:
Just got home from school—here’s my latest photos.

The harlequins are holding on. They get extremely pale after the dose and then their color comes back later. The last tequila sunrise is also ok right now.

All of the cories are fine looking except one peppered Cory. He has very very little white-ish bulges sticking out of him now. I got a side by side of the two julii cories. You can see the one has a very strong fuzzy grey cast and the other doesn’t. All of them are acting normal.

I’ve also noticed that the glass has a white film on it, like little tiny dots all over the place.
I know corydoras like to be in groups but can you take that cory into QT and dose furan-2 again a few times with water changes. Also does the furan 3 times with water changes for the other fish. here is a very helpful article on columnaris. please read it and just scroll to the treatment. Also, columnaris loves heat so turn it down to 72 F
 
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bettaandcorylover said:
I know corydoras like to be in groups but can you take that cory into QT and dose furan-2 again a few times with water changes. Also does the furan 3 times with water changes for the other fish. here is a very helpful article on columnaris. please read it and just scroll to the treatment. Also, columnaris loves heat so turn it down to 72 F
Unfortunately my thermostats aren’t adjustable and I don’t have another tank.
 
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Unfortunately my thermostats aren’t adjustable and I don’t have another tank.
Oh well..maybe you can just do a water change and pour cold water? Anyway, here is the very helpful article on columnaris. please read it. lol didn't send the first time.

 
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starrynight2331 said:
Oh lord. Ok. I didn’t know. Did I ruin it by keeping lights on?
Well, these commercial antibiotic treatments rarely work (especially Furan-2) so you want to hedge your bets.

I would just turn the lights off and hope for the best.
 
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RomanNoodles96

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AvalancheDave said:
Well, these commercial antibiotic treatments rarely work (especially Furan-2) so you want to hedge your bets.

I would just turn the lights off and hope for the best.
This is a little unrelated but is praziquantel or metronidazole light sensitive?
 
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Alright, latest latest update.

Today I went ahead and did the 25% water change. Later I was able to get ahold of a small tank and I now have it set up with my old heater and old filter. I took 10 gallons of water out of the 29gal, so it’s still the same concentration of meds. I replaced the 10gal with plain water of course and now the snails are to themselves in a big mansion of a tank. Tomorrow I’ll continue with the second to last dose of furan-2, etc. The QT tank does not have any filters in it btw, the water is just flowing.

Im going to go ahead and buy the copper stuff; it should be here when the furan is done. Pet stores near me don’t have it unfortunately.

What should I do with the main tank? I was thinking get some carbon in there and just leave it until the other fish return but I don’t know if Columnaris lives on surfaces/in the water or what. Should I take the snails out and treat the main tank itself? Can it be considered already treated because a course went through the tank? Idk. I’m very tired lol. Thank you all for your help thus far.

PS There’s a pic of the white stuff on the glass on the main tank. It’s weird as ****. Looks like little pieces of toilet paper and mold almost.
 

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