Question About Using Fertilizers

I admit, I haven't been using fertilizers for a few years, and I never knew too much about them. I used to use Flourish Comprehensive, but now I know I've been missing out on essential macros and micros.

So my 120 gallon rises to 10 or 20ppm nitrate between water changes on its own with just the fish in the tank. I've been wanting to try Thrive fertilizer, but I really don't want higher nitrates.

Do all the Thrive formulas contain no3? 7ppm is a lot to add imo. Agreed, good for low bioload planted tanks, but what about a heavier stocked tank?

I ordered Profito Easy Life from EU. It does not contain nitrogen and does have a hormone to encourage plant cell division. It has made a big difference in my stems for my tank with soft water.
Easy-Life ProFito professional plant food - Easy-Life

I guess if it's working, don't mess with it, but I'm curious as to suggest it to others.

Am I getting all the goodies while avoiding adding more nitrates?

 

Am I getting all the goodies while avoiding adding more nitrates?

Nope "Contains no Phosphates"

Also contains essentially no K,

So, no NPK = no macro nutrients which plants need the most of.

 

Ahh booo! I imagine my tank has enough phosphates too, but not potassium (if that's K).

I can't find the amount of K?

The high concentrations of, in particular, iron, potassium and magnesium in ProFito fulfil the plants’ need to absorb large quantities of these nutrients. This plant food contains also many other micronutrients (including manganese, boron, cobalt, lithium, molybdenum, copper, tin, nickel, fluorine, iodine, aluminium, zinc, selenium and vanadium).

 

Ahh booo! I imagine my tank has enough phosphates too, but not potassium (if that's K).

High NO3, PO4 and K dosing does not = bad.

NO3 reaching 40ppm weekly isn't a death sentence. My tank is steady at 20-30ppm NO3 without issues. I dose my incoming water to 20ppm, so it remains fairly steady for the plants. PO4 5ppm, K dose same as NO3. Yes, K = potassium

 

Since I have you here (thanks!) I always wanted to know why ppl keep a surplus of nitrAte. If nitrates are usually at 10ppm and never dwindle down to nothing without adding nitrogen ferts, my plants won't be using more right?

What am I not understanding?

 

Since I have you here (thanks!) I always wanted to know why ppl keep a surplus of nitrAte. If nitrates are usually at 10ppm and never dwindle down to nothing without adding more nitrate ferts, my plants won't be using more right?

Depends mostly on growth speed.

More light = faster photosynthate production = faster growth potential = higher need for nutrients.

Because NO3 at 20-30ppm is essentially harmless, we dose up to those levels to er' on the side of "overdoing" it to ensure we don't run out.

 

I admit, I haven't been using fertilizers for a few years, and I never knew too much about them. I used to use Flourish Comprehensive, but now I know I've been missing out on essential macros and micros.

So my 120 gallon rises to 10 or 20ppm nitrate between water changes on its own with just the fish in the tank. I've been wanting to try Thrive fertilizer, but I really don't want higher nitrates.

Do all the Thrive formulas contain no3? 7ppm is a lot to add imo. Agreed, good for low bioload planted tanks, but what about a heavier stocked tank?

I ordered Profito Easy Life from EU. It does not contain nitrogen and does have a hormone to encourage plant cell division. It has made a big difference in my stems for my tank with soft water.
Easy-Life ProFito professional plant food - Easy-Life

I guess if it's working, don't mess with it, but I'm curious as to suggest it to others.

Am I getting all the goodies while avoiding adding more nitrates?

Hello angel...

Just curious. Do you keep plants that require strong lighting? If so, you'll need to use supplements for your plants to go along with the higher intensity light. I'm sure you've already researched the needs of your plants. So, if you've done your homework, then you just need to perform your large, weekly water change and then feed your plants. The nitrate level in you tank can be fairly high, in the 80 ppm range and remain steady for several days before the fish would be affected. At this point, their reproduction would show signs of slowing, but that's about all. Unless, you keep and breed rare fish species, your nitrate level is really very good.

Old

 

Thanks Old I actually don't register any nitrAte in my 90g because anaerobic bacteria uses it up. But honestly I don't see any deficiencies at all. I'm lucky I suppose since my tap water is so soft. It could be the soil bottom or the root tabs dissolving, but the tank has been thriving for 5 years.

I don't know how to expain my light level. For my large tanks, I have a fixture for the lower plants and a fixture for the top portion of the tank and taller plants. I have more light on the 90g, working toward a modification on my fixture to increase lighting I the 120g. I do feel the light is minimal on my 120g, but enough to grow the easy plants I have.

I don't have a ton of stem plants, mostly root feeders and they are doing well with root tabs. But when I started adding more stem plants, I had to start with a fertilizer in the water column.

Thanks all, I'll keep all this mind when I increase lighting.

 

Hey angel. As been said your nitrates are fine and with weekly water changes you won’t have a problem. What I use is apI co2 booster daily. Than 2-3 times a week I add flourish comprehensive and on the off days I add flourish iron and potassium. This set up has worked great for me. I tried the thrive by itself and it didn’t work for my 30. I’m now giving it another shot in my 125. My 125 has 5ppm nitrate so I will use the thrive for the month and see how it works. But will continue with the co2 booster. Good luck with your plants and pictures are needed . My 125 below.

 

Your tanks are always so nice @86 sinnit. Every time I see them, I admire. I was just thinking pics were in order.

My 120 gallon in June



My 90g a couple days ago



Obviously the 90g (below pic) is doing better, the whole bottom is dirted. I would love the 120 gallon to be easy like the 90g, so I've been adding dirted containers and Easy Life fertilizer. If I revamp the 120g, I'd go ahead and dirt the whole thing, it works that well for me.

Thanks for your input.

 

I don’t know enough to say a lot intelligently but what I have read indicates the reason high light and co 2 driven tanks overdose macros has to do with how the concentration affects use from the plant

Something else to consider is there are many ways to fertilize. A soil based tank or heavy root tab use is sort of in line with aqua soil and the like. With aqua soil macro doses are much lower generally

 

mbkemp Thanks! I do have soil tanks (my 90g is full soil) and I don't feel I need to add water ferts. The 120 gallon on the other hand has less soil and seems to require fert dosing.

I'm going to keep testing and using the Profito, it's so easy to dose and has made a difference, so it's not hurting.

This is just a thought. Maybe with adding the other fertilizers, and with high enough lighting, the plants grow better/faster and they use more nitrate. I'm going to keep tresting nitrates and see. And be diligent with my dosing or try to be! To be honest, I started dosing ferts with the idea my nitrates would lessen. I say I keep them at about 10ppm, but I have to change 75% weekly to keep them there. It's getting redundant. I'd like to go back to 60 gallons a week because that's much more doable. I just feel I'm wasting water.

I do want to thank everyone for their take on the subject. It's something I've been wondering about for a while.

 

I don't think any of the thrive products come without nitrates. The reason why your nitrates aren't going down is likely because of the Liebig's Law. It basically states that the plants only use as much nutrients as the limiting factors allow. So if there isn't enough potash or phosphate, then the plants won't be able to use all the nitrate available. Theoretically, if you add more phosphate and potassium, the plants will then be able to utilize the remaining nitrate in the water.

You have quite a large volume of water to fertilize. I recommend getting dry fertilizers. They're quite simple to use (just use a teaspoon to dose them and use rotalabutterfly.com to know the amounts). I'd recommend that you get KH2PO4 and K2SO4.

Each week, aI'm to add the following amounts to each tank:
From the K2SO4, I'd aI'm to add 10ppm of K to your water.
From KH2PO4, I'd aI'm to add 3.5ppm of PO4 to your water.

You could continue dosing the profito fert, but make sure to add it a few days after adding the KH2PO4 because micronutrients and phosphate will precipitate out of the water (unless the micronutrients have a very strong chelator).

 

So just to go back to the original question, if you want to use Thrive but without so much nitrate, you can get ThriveS (Thrive made for shrimp tanks). Its basically the same as regular Thrive but with almost no N and slightly less P and K, but with the same micros. You can look at all their product breakdowns on their website if you are looking for something more specific.

 

Wow thanks Vishaquatics, your proposed schedule seems quite personalized for me. I really appreciate that!

Yes, I've been considering using dry ferts. Gotta find a place to buy them, maybe a hydroponic store? I'm def getting into ferts now, I realize how important they are for some setups.

I think it's kinda cool I have two setups. I have other tanks, but I take care mostly on the two big ones (120g and 90g). One tank doesn't need anything except the odd root tab, the other I will be dosing.

The other thing I was thinking, my KH and GH in the 120 gallon is 3 degrees. Tap water is only 2 degrees for each. I used to add Equilibrium to the 90g, I had even better growth in there (like harder to grow plants and such), I'm thinking about adding a bit of GH for the plants. My pH is always 7.4 since my manicipality uses phosphates to raise it to 8.2. It comes out of the tank at 7.6.

Anyhow, just some added info if it y'all

 

So just to go back to the original question, if you want to use Thrive but without so much nitrate, you can get ThriveS (Thrive made for shrimp tanks). Its basically the same as regular Thrive but with almost no N and slightly less P and K, but with the same micros. You can look at all their product breakdowns on their website if you are looking for something more specific.

Thanks! ThriveS is 0.43 nitrogen, ThriveC is 1.24.
So if ThriveC raises nitrates by 3ppm a 5ml dose, ThriveS would raise them about 1.5ppm or so per 5ml.

So I guess a full dose to 120 gallon would add about 30ppm nitrates. Is that right?

 

Thanks! ThriveS is 0.43 nitrogen, ThriveC is 1.24.
So if ThriveC raises nitrates by 3ppm a 5ml dose, ThriveS would raise them about 1.5ppm or so per 5ml.

So I guess a full dose to 120 gallon would add about 30ppm nitrates. Is that right?

Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator will solve everything with ease

 

Thanks! ThriveS is 0.43 nitrogen, ThriveC is 1.24.
So if ThriveC raises nitrates by 3ppm a 5ml dose, ThriveS would raise them about 1.5ppm or so per 5ml.

So I guess a full dose to 120 gallon would add about 30ppm nitrates. Is that right?

That depends on the volume of water. 5ml in a 10 gallon may raise it to 1.5ppm but 5ml in a 120 gallon won't make a dent.

For dry ferts, nilocg may ship to Canada (and their ferts are the cheapest and highest quality that I've found). They also carry these nutrients at hydroponic stores, although I suspect it may be more expensive. I got my K2S04 and KH2PO4 for 3 or 4 bucks a pop per 1lb bag. That's enough to last you a long time.

 

Oh I meant multiply the ThriveS 5ml dose by 24 for the 120 gallon volume of water would add ~30ppm nitrates to the nitrates my tank already produces, so I'd be at 60ppm nitrAte by the end of the week. I think. That's not ideal for me.....

Ok so...
1 x 2mL pump per 10 gallon of Thrive will add 7ppm NO3, 1.3ppm PO4, 5ppm K, and 0.25ppm Fe

So I have to dose 12 times that amount for 120 gallon volume of water.
Does that add 7 x 12 amount of nitrAte? 84ppm?

Or ThiveC (the formula for high bioload tanks) will add 3ppm at a dose of 1 pump per 5 gallons.
So I multiply 3 x 24 = 72ppm of nitrAte in my 120g?

I'm starting to think Thrive is formulated for smaller low bioload tanks. Also thinking I'm changing out too much water maybe and just keep nitrates at 20ppm?

 

Wow thanks Vishaquatics, your proposed schedule seems quite personalized for me. I really appreciate that!

Yes, I've been considering using dry ferts. Gotta find a place to buy them, maybe a hydroponic store? I'm def getting into ferts now, I realize how important they are for some setups.

I think it's kinda cool I have two setups. I have other tanks, but I take care mostly on the two big ones (120g and 90g). One tank doesn't need anything except the odd root tab, the other I will be dosing.

The other thing I was thinking, my KH and GH in the 120 gallon is 3 degrees. Tap water is only 2 degrees for each. I used to add Equilibrium to the 90g, I had even better growth in there (like harder to grow plants and such), I'm thinking about adding a bit of GH for the plants. My pH is always 7.4 since my manicipality uses phosphates to raise it to 8.2. It comes out of the tank at 7.6.

Anyhow, just some added info if it y'all

Hydroponics stores are an option but typically only for Macros and GH booster but since you are not looking for micro components this could work for you. I did the same at the beginning but found it better quality (dirty repacking from 25 kg to 1 kg bags) and cheaper to buy directly from various chemical distributors as they would also sell in 1 kg bags.

For raising your GH you should dry dose some CaSO4 (Gypsum) and MgSO4 (Epsom Salt). Look for the following most common forms to purchase:

MgSO4.7H2O Magnesium Sulfate heptahydrate
CaSO4.2H2O Calcium Sulfate dihydrate

Rotalabutterfly.com calculator has recommendations and help you calculate the amount needed.

 

Would I just use Epsom salts for now? I still have Equilibrium as well. I don't want to raise hardness too much, my fish like the soft water, but I don't think a little would hurt, that is if it would do any good. What's a good GH to opt for? In my 120g, GH is 3 degrees.

I'm really just trying to grow hygro angustifolia (pantenol), minI reneikI and ludwigia repens for stems. Not saying i'm sticking to my dosing and they are doing well, but those are my stems. I tried hygro araguaia, it lasted for a month and dwindled away My angelfish rip up stargrass or I would have that too! I realize that dosing ferts benefits all plants, but it's the stems where I notice deficiencies the most.

Here's an updated pic I just took of the 120g

 

When your GH is 3 there are very little Magnesium and/or Calcium in your water, however it is not possible with our simple test kit to determine which one might be missing in quantity. Both are needed by your plants for optimal growth but there is nothing wrong with a GH of 3 as such. Since you have angels I would strive for keeping the water fairly soft.

I believe it is generally assumed that low GH tap water is more likely to miss Calcium than Magnesium but only a test sheet from your local water authority can tell you the exact breakdown, here of course assuming you are not on a private well....

Checking rotalabutterfly, if you aI'm for their recommended ppm for each like:

Adding 15 ppm Calcium will raise GH with 2.1
Adding 5 ppm Magnesium will raise GH with 1.15

A GH of 6 - 7 would still be categorised as "Soft" ( 4 - 8 GH).

 

I will, thank you

Edit: I'm too stupid to figure that out! Maybe I'll keep at it, but those terms I don't get.

It's a really cool site though that I didn't know about if I could just understand it lol. Thanks All!

 

Then ask me exactly what you want me to help you understand?

The first part I think is fairly easy.

• Choose size of your tank
• In this case your fertilizers are DYI
• Choose whether you want to dry dose or make a solution with one or many doses in the bottle
• Start with estimative index to keep it simple (it will suggest your target ppm for you)

and off you go....


Nothing wrong with starting with their recommendation and if you later feel more or less is needed you can change "Estimative Index" to "Dose to reach a target" for your own target.

A solution is a little more tricky but due to the amounts needed and their solubility in water solution is not often used for GH boosters.