Question about converting 20G tank to walstad method

I recently decided to change my 20G tall tank to the Walstad Method soon but I had some questions regarding the Soil and Sand that will be used for the tank.

I was thinking of using this Soil & Sand
1.) BDBS From TCC
2.) Miracle Gro Organic Soil

Is the Soil and Sand a good choice, if it's not can anyone recommend which soil to choose for the Tanks?

The tank has currently been established for a year and the filtration system is a canister filter, I was wondering if the tank being established and filter cause the ammonia spike to be low enough that I will be able to keep my fish inside the tank or not?

 

This is exactly the same substrate I used for my 3 gallon walstad, and it's the most successful tank out of 14! Funny enough, I threw in some anubias COVERED in slime algae and said algae died within 4 days. I've never had an algae bloom in 8 months.

1 issue; BDBS often has silica, which may cause a small brown diatom outbreak. However, this lasted only about a week for me. I haven't seen any since.

Also, this tank was originally for a 4-year-old family betta who did just fine in this tank when I changed it. Now I have dwarf red coral platies and ramshorn snails in it. I feed veg often (peas, zucchini, carrot, cucumber,) which occasionally causes a bacterial bloom, but only lasting 4 days at most.

Also, this is sort of (yet another) "experiment tank." During set up, I used terrestrial L. nummularia that thrives even with a low-light, full-spectrum LED. For the first time in 8 months, I added liquid ferts and the L. nummularia has whitish veins on the inside of the leaves. Also adding rescue ramshorns from various places, 2/4 of which survived and mated (I probably have over 30,) adding the fish without QT, frequently overfeeding, no filtration, no heater, low-light, and with pothos and monstera cuttings. The anubias shoots out 3 leaves per month, the pothos 2, monstera 1, buce 2, new parrot's feather from a hike is doing well so far, brazilian pennywort and L. nummularia trimmed bi-weekly, and the crypt never even melted! I've done a lot "wrong" in this tank, yet it thrives! Hope this happens for you too

 

How many fish are in the 20 g with the canister filter that you intend to turn off?
Anything more than a handful and you are asking for trouble in my opinion.

I am not against tanks without filters as I have a number myself. You need a heap of plants preferably with their leaves in the air and a very low stocking in my experience.
I would suggest a lot of research and talking one on one with other people about this before you turn anything off. Joining your local aquarium club / aquarium society would help.

 

What's your current substrate? At 1 year your aged substrate is already soil. Your substrate already has organic matter going through the stages of decomposition which is what soil is.

Only difference is you might need more organic matter to match the peat content of commercial soil which comes from wood chips, plant matter and poop. But Ive never had an scenario where that much peat is needed.

Any aged substrate whether inert gravel, sand or fertilized soil is very valuable, and grows plants very well.

With very fast growth you might run into potasium deficiency and commercial soils sometimes fortify with potassium but you can just buy a potassium fert for the tank rather than changing substrate completely

 

I'd not do a conversion from a filtered tank to a Walstad. That usually fails.
This requires a restart as a Walstad to work.

 

How many fish are in the 20 g with the canister filter that you intend to turn off?
Anything more than a handful and you are asking for trouble in my opinion.

I am not against tanks without filters as I have a number myself. You need a heap of plants preferably with their leaves in the air and a very low stocking in my experience.
I would suggest a lot of research and talking one on one with other people about this before you turn anything off. Joining your local aquarium club / aquarium society would help.

I currently have 2 Guppies with 3 Zebra Danio, I really didn’t meant that I’m going full Walstad method but I just wanna change my substrate to a soiled substrate with a sand cap.

The tank will have CO2 and the filter is needed because of the reactor used.

currently don’t have many plants but was thinking of adding more.

What's your current substrate? At 1 year your aged substrate is already soil. Your substrate already has organic matter going through the stages of decomposition which is what soil is.

Only difference is you might need more organic matter to match the peat content of commercial soil which comes from wood chips, plant matter and poop. But Ive never had an scenario where that much peat is needed.

Any aged substrate whether inert gravel, sand or fertilized soil is very valuable, and grows plants very well.

With very fast growth you might run into potasium deficiency and commercial soils sometimes fortify with potassium but you can just buy a potassium fert for the tank rather than changing substrate completely

The tank has gravel that is inert and the depth is 1/2 of a inch deep which I didn’t know it was little but now want to change to a soiled substrate with a sand cap.

 

I really didn’t meant that I’m going full Walstad method but I just wanna change my substrate to a soiled substrate with a sand cap.

Then, sorry to say so, it's just a substrate change and has nothing to do with the Walstad method at all. Because either you go full Walstadt or not. There is no inbetween.

 

Then, sorry to say so, it's just a substrate change and has nothing to do with the Walstad method at all. Because either you go full Walstadt or not. There is no inbetween.

Yeah I just want to do a substrate change of soil and sand cap but just wanted advice if It would work.

 

No worries PotatoYourPotato,
You did throw me with your wording but let’s not get hung up on names?
You want to add more substrate with a sand topping, then have lots of plants That’s do able.

The sand you mentioned in post #1 is the sort of thing commonly used. The miracle grow I am not familiar with. Does it have chicken poop in it, because it makes some claims on the packaging that would suggest it’s got a strong fertiliser of some kind in it.

If that miracle grow is something others have used it’s a very doable project.

While it may not be ideal to have the fish continuously in the tank as you work I can say have changed substrate with fish in the tank . When the water turns brown it’s not that much different to a river in flood.

 

No worries PotatoYourPotato,
You did throw me with your wording but let’s not get hung up on names?
You want to add more substrate with a sand topping, then have lots of plants That’s do able.

The sand you mentioned in post #1 is the sort of thing commonly used. The miracle grow I am not familiar with. Does it have chicken poop in it, because it makes some claims on the packaging that would suggest it’s got a strong fertiliser of some kind in it.

If that miracle grow is something others have used it’s a very doable project.

While it may not be ideal to have the fish continuously in the tank as you work I can say have changed substrate with fish in the tank . When the water turns brown it’s not that much different to a river in flood.

I looked at people's reviews and some complain about how the fertilizer used on the Miracle-Gro Potting Mix is toxic, I was looking more deeply at what other soils I could use and some say that Top Soil is the better go or Compost Mix.

 

I looked at people's reviews and some complain about how the fertilizer used on the Miracle-Gro Potting Mix is toxic, I was looking more deeply at what other soils I could use and some say that Top Soil is the better go or Compost Mix.

I actually have run full walstad tanks as well as what I run now - tanks that began as walstads & which are now filtered & artificially lit.

Diane actually continues to post & moderate on the subject & has said she includes hob filtration now too as she increases animal bioload. Those forums & soil discussions can be googled if you like.

What she recommends is the most basic, unamended top soil you can find topped with play sand. Miracle grow has long been a topic of discussion & she does not recommend it now. It requires more days of washing & soaking to remove perlite & wood. I've done both & find the cheap, unamended top soil with play sand most easily washed & placed. The animals I keep thrive as do the plants. The miracle gro tanks did no better than the cheap topsoil tanks so far as plant growth or depletion. I'd recommend including malaysian trumpet snails in any dirted tank for substrate churning.

Good luck! Dirted tanks have been fun for me for years & are my preference. Hope you enjoy them as much!

 

I actually have run full walstad tanks as well as what I run now - tanks that began as walstads & which are now filtered & artificially lit.

Diane actually continues to post & moderate on the subject & has said she includes hob filtration now too as she increases animal bioload. Those forums & soil discussions can be googled if you like.

What she recommends is the most basic, unamended top soil you can find topped with play sand. Miracle grow has long been a topic of discussion & she does not recommend it now. It requires more days of washing & soaking to remove perlite & wood. I've done both & find the cheap, unamended top soil with play sand most easily washed & placed. The animals I keep thrive as do the plants. The miracle gro tanks did no better than the cheap topsoil tanks so far as plant growth or depletion. I'd recommend including malaysian trumpet snails in any dirted tank for substrate churning.

Good luck! Dirted tanks have been fun for me for years & are my preference. Hope you enjoy them as much!

Thanks, Do you think this Top soil is good? Scotts Premium 0.75 cu. ft. Top Soil 71130756 - The Home Depot

 

Thanks, Do you think this Top soil is good? Scotts Premium 0.75 cu. ft. Top Soil 71130756 - The Home Depot

I'm having trouble reading the ingredient list but note that it says it adds organic peat & spaghnum, not that the soil is organic. Check for fertilizers, which you don't want. You'll have to wash this thoroughly to remove the 'peat' & spaghnum.

If there isn't a hardware or garden centre with a heap of topsoil you can buy a few shovelfuls from near you, I'd look for something else. You need to order online? Are you seeing anything listed as a generic top soil? Any possibility you're not snowed under as I am & able to dig up a bit of backyard soil at your place or a friends?

 

I'm having trouble reading the ingredient list but note that it says it adds organic peat & spaghnum, not that the soil is organic. Check for fertilizers, which you don't want. You'll have to wash this thoroughly to remove the 'peat' & spaghnum.

If there isn't a hardware or garden centre with a heap of topsoil you can buy a few shovelfuls from near you, I'd look for something else. You need to order online? Are you seeing anything listed as a generic top soil? Any possibility you're not snowed under as I am & able to dig up a bit of backyard soil at your place or a friends?

Is peat moss and Spaghnum not safe for aquariums? There's more topsoil available near me w/out the peat moss. Additionally, the Top Soil says it doesn't contain any ferts.

 

Is peat moss and Spaghnum not safe for aquariums?

Sphagnum is the scientific name of peat moss and is the plant from which peat (the brown stuff that you find in peat bogs) develops over centuries layering layer over layer of Sphagnum growing on top and the dead old layers rotting under anoxic conditions underneath.

So that means BOTH the moss and the peat are added. This means in turn it has quite some influence on parameters such as hardness and pH.

You'll have to wash this thoroughly to remove the 'peat' & spaghnum.

When you wash soil you are left with dead plant matter (mostly cellulose) and wash away all the good stuff. In such mixes you can't remove anything besides maybe picking out Sphagnum pieces by hand.

 

Is peat moss and Spaghnum not safe for aquariums? There's more topsoil available near me w/out the peat moss. Additionally, the Top Soil says it doesn't contain any ferts.

It's not that spaghnum isn't safe for aquariums, it's that it rots in the tank. It's not the end of the world but it kinda sucks that it's used as a soil replacement that increases algae as a dirted tank matures. I think most of us prefer to actually get the dirt we pay for rather than added organics that we have to wash away. The peat moss isn't bad either - if it's actually peat moss. I've found a lot of labeled 'peat moss' that isn't - it's spaghnum moss. If it's actual peat moss I understand it can help acidify your water which can be a good thing if you're working with basic water. There are plenty of experts here on that & I'm not one.

You're going to have to wash the dirt either one you get. At least neither has perlite! If it were me I'd go with the no peat moss added top soil near me. I did a quick amazon search & didn't find anything much better than the Scott's you proposed tho if you have to go with that.

Sphagnum is the scientific name of peat moss and is the plant from which peat (the brown stuff that you find in peat bogs) develops over centuries layering layer over layer of Sphagnum growing on top and the dead old layers rotting under anoxic conditions underneath.

So that means BOTH the moss and the peat are added. This means in turn it has quite some influence on parameters such as hardness and pH.


When you wash soil you are left with dead plant matter (mostly cellulose) and wash away all the good stuff. In such mixes you can't remove anything besides maybe picking out Sphagnum pieces by hand.

Yes, rotted spaghnum is 'spaghnum peat moss' but what I'm finding is bags of 'peat moss' & soils amended with 'peat moss' that contain literally nothing but straight, crumbled spaghnum - no peat or virtually no peat - involved. If you're making mineralized top soil for a dirted tank, you wash it.

 

It's not the end of the world but it kinda sucks that it's used as a soil replacement that increases algae as a dirted tank matures.

That's why you have to start with a big amount of live plants to counter that.

I've found a lot of labeled 'peat moss' that isn't - it's spaghnum moss. If it's actual peat moss I understand it can help acidify your water which can be a good thing if you're working with basic water. There are plenty of experts here on that & I'm not one.

The confusion stems mostly from the fact that some marketing eggs used the term "peat moss" for actual peat and it stuck. Again:
Sphagnum = peat moss
peat moss =/= peat
Sphagnum + rainwater + time (like 1000 years) = peat

Hence using peat is all but sustainable. Peat bogs contain thousands of tons of CO2 which is released when bogs are drained and the peat taken out for other uses.

 

That's why you have to start with a big amount of live plants to counter that.


The confusion stems mostly from the fact that some marketing eggs used the term "peat moss" for actual peat and it stuck. Again:
Sphagnum = peat moss
peat moss =/= peat
Sphagnum + rainwater + time (like 1000 years) = peat

Hence using peat is all but sustainable. Peat bogs contain thousands of tons of CO2 which is released when bogs are drained and the peat taken out for other uses.

Yup. I know you're the resident expert here but on the ground, when I buy anything that says "peat moss", especially in recent years, given the widespread destruction of bogs for commercial use, most times I'm getting nothing but lively, springy spagnum. I'm not counting on the spin of a marketing exec when it comes to what I put in my tanks.

And I remove spaghnum as I mineralize the soil for introduction into my dirted tanks as Walstad recommends. I've found that helpful in my dirted tanks. 80-90% planted tanks don't eliminate every trace of unwanted algae & can't be achieved by everybody, especially for those starting with tissue culture or cuttings from another hobbyist. You start with 100% full grown, fully immersed plants from your own tanks & sure, you have a good shot at never developing unwanted algae. I'll wager that not everybody, not even most, can go the 90%, full-grown, self grown, immersed plant route. In that case, I'd rather remove opportunity for growth of unwanted algaes instead of dealing with them later.

 

80-90% planted tanks don't eliminate every trace of unwanted algae & can't be achieved by everybody, especially for those starting with tissue culture or cuttings from another hobbyist. You start with 100% full grown, fully immersed plants from your own tanks & sure, you have a good shot at never developing unwanted algae.

I have just one question: What's bad about algae? Excellent indicator organisms...

I'll wager that not everybody, not even most, can go the 90%, full-grown, self grown, immersed plant route.

I think if people would set their priorities differently and would invest more into plants from the start instead of overprized gagdets and additives that nobody needs... well... you get the gist.

 

I have just one question: What's bad about algae? Excellent indicator organisms...

I think if people would set their priorities differently and would invest more into plants from the start instead of overprized gagdets and additives that nobody needs... well... you get the gist.

Not gonna derail this thread arguing about whether peat is 100% spaghnum & at what stage spaghnum is peat. Or why we mineralize soil. Or the difference between unwanted algae & welcome algae growth in somebody else's tank. Nor the fact that there are a wide variety of keepers of varying experience here & generally, we don't do well to look down noses at anybody. Nobody spoke of over priced gadgets & additives but you, presuming that your priorities are the "right" ones. They're not & it isn't a nice response.

I for one greatly appreciate the learning you share here & after 20 some years fishkeeping have come to turn over some over your points thinking about things I'm not learned in. I appreciate your in-depth knowledge on some topics. But I don't appreciate what you threw in here.

I looked at people's reviews and some complain about how the fertilizer used on the Miracle-Gro Potting Mix is toxic, I was looking more deeply at what other soils I could use and some say that Top Soil is the better go or Compost Mix.

Just a quick note that potting mix & potting soil can be two very different things. The main issue with the current miracle grow organic potting soil is really just the organic additives & perlite. Otherwise, if it's what you've got, it works fine. I haven't heard of or experienced any toxicity with the MG Organic Potting *Soil*. Hope it helps.

 

Not gonna derail this thread arguing about whether peat is 100% spaghnum & at what stage spaghnum is peat.

That was just thrown in because I have a thing for correct terminology so people can find wht they need even with nonsensical labeling.

Or why we mineralize soil.

Didn't even talk about this.

Or the difference between unwanted algae & welcome algae growth in somebody else's tank.

Just a general thing to consider. I'm still always a bit bewildered why people put such an emphasis on preventing algae.

Nobody spoke of over priced gadgets & additives but you, presuming that your priorities are the "right" ones. They're not & it isn't a nice response.

I didn't even say they are my own priorities or the right ones. I just noticed over time that if people wouldn't spend so much money on stuff they don't need, and instead spend more money on plants, it wouldn't happen again and again that people end up starting with a miniscule amount of plants in the beginning as you said. It's just my observation. And a simple solution for this problem.

 

Always love to see discussions on an approach even the founder doesn't use anymore.

 

Always love to see discussions on an approach even the founder doesn't use anymore.

Especially if it's not even about it in the first place.

 

Always love to see discussions on an approach even the founder doesn't use anymore.

Because clearly there's nothing to be learned in doing so. We don't build on experimentation & in progress, we discard all prior discovery.

That was just thrown in because I have a thing for correct terminology so people can find wht they need even with nonsensical labeling.

Didn't even talk about this.

Just a general thing to consider. I'm still always a bit bewildered why people put such an emphasis on preventing algae.

I didn't even say they are my own priorities or the right ones. I just noticed over time that if people wouldn't spend so much money on stuff they don't need, and instead spend more money on plants, it wouldn't happen again and again that people end up starting with a miniscule amount of plants in the beginning as you said. It's just my observation. And a simple solution for this problem.

Appreciate the courtesy & respect. Hope the hobbyist who began this thread got what they needed.