Quarantine Trio Medication

Hello!

I’m quite excited to join this fish forum because All hobbyists have helped me tremendously in past with fish problem solving

We have heard of the importance of quarantining new or sick fish for 2-4 weeks to help treat potential illnesses and prevent getting the rest of the fish in our display tank sick, as well.
I have been using the common combination of General Cure, EM, and ICH to quarantine a sick fish.
I’ve heard several directions for adding medication.
One one had, I’ve heard to add the recommended dosage all at once and let it “sit there” for 7 days before doing a partial water change. I see the logic of doing this only as far as helping to preserve the medicate instead of diluting it with frequent changes.
However, when reading the directions of each medication, I don’t find it feasible to combine all of them at the same time because some require more frequent water changes than others

Do I follow all the directions in each bottle? If so, you won’t go 4 days without a water change. Example General cure asks for 2 doses in a four day period before doing water change ( 1 dose every 48hours). EM requires 1 dose every 24 hours and a water change after the 2nd dose. ICH -X requires a water change at least evert 24 as well before adding any other dosage.

What do you recommend? Water changes every 4 days wastes sone medicine as oppose to every 7 days...

 

Hello!

I’m quite excited to join this fish forum because All hobbyists have helped me tremendously in past with fish problem solving

We have heard of the importance of quarantining new or sick fish for 2-4 weeks to help treat potential illnesses and prevent getting the rest of the fish in our display tank sick, as well.
I have been using the common combination of General Cure, EM, and ICH to quarantine a sick fish.
I’ve heard several directions for adding medication.
One one had, I’ve heard to add the recommended dosage all at once and let it “sit there” for 7 days before doing a partial water change. I see the logic of doing this only as far as helping to preserve the medicate instead of diluting it with frequent changes.
However, when reading the directions of each medication, I don’t find it feasible to combine all of them at the same time because some require more frequent water changes than others

Do I follow all the directions in each bottle? If so, you won’t go 4 days without a water change. Example General cure asks for 2 doses in a four day period before doing water change ( 1 dose every 48hours). EM requires 1 dose every 24 hours and a water change after the 2nd dose. ICH -X requires a water change at least evert 24 as well before adding any other dosage.

What do you recommend? Water changes every 4 days wastes sone medicine as oppose to every 7 days...

Good morning, and welcome. (well at least in California. Lol)

All will agree quarantine is good. So

Not all agree to medicate in quarantine. I personally DO.

How I medicate is I put 1 dose of all 3 in tank. Do NO water changes and watch fish. If no signs of issues. After 1 week large water change. Done. Keep fish in quarantine.

If after 1 or 2 days you see symptoms of say ick or parasites. Then I would dose one or two more times (or until nessasary dependingon issues )ONLY with that one target meds doing %30 water changes in between to not over medicate.

 

Thank you for the reply!

I took your advice and medicated using all three. I’ll let the medication sit for a week.

Honestly, the fish was previously sick and I moved to quarantine tank after medicating in display tank didn’t help much. The fish already LOOKS sick in its QT tank (sunken stomach, a bit of a hump on the top).

Do I hold off on additional medication until after the week to do a 50 percent water change?

I also have PRAZIPRO but from reading up on what the experts on this forum have stated, this medication should not be mixed with any other.

The recommended time for quarantining (read somewhere) is 2-6 weeks. I just started week 1 yesterday

How long should I wait before I switch gears and medicate only with Prazipro (if that’s recommended).

THANKS A BUNCH!

 

Thank you for the reply!

I took your advice and medicated using all three. I’ll let the medication sit for a week.

Honestly, the fish was previously sick and I moved to quarantine tank after medicating in display tank didn’t help much. The fish already LOOKS sick in its QT tank (sunken stomach, a bit of a hump on the top).

Do I hold off on additional medication until after the week to do a 50 percent water change?

I also have PRAZIPRO but from reading up on what the experts on this forum have stated, this medication should not be mixed with any other.

The recommended time for quarantining (read somewhere) is 2-6 weeks. I just started week 1 yesterday

How long should I wait before I switch gears and medicate only with Prazipro (if that’s recommended).

THANKS A BUNCH!

Pictures of sick fish? Sunken stomach is usually parasites or starvation

 

Personally I rarely medicate, big no for me to mix meds. Medication is REALLY hard on fish. So you're likely to cause issues with some of your fish just by hitting them with so much medication so quickly.

I don't bring that many fish in so I generally don't treat when they're in the quarantine tank. I monitor them for a few weeks and only treat as needed, but some choose to to a general treatment on all that's really preference. I just wouldn't mix meds as they can counter act each other or cause unneeded stress to the fish. I'd complete one medication, wait a few days, then the next, and so on.

 

Personally I rarely medicate, big no for me to mix meds. Medication is REALLY hard on fish. So you're likely to cause issues with some of your fish just by hitting them with so much medication so quickly.

I don't bring that many fish in so I generally don't treat when they're in the quarantine tank. I monitor them for a few weeks and only treat as needed, but some choose to to a general treatment on all that's really preference. I just wouldn't mix meds as they can counter act each other or cause unneeded stress to the fish. I'd complete one medication, wait a few days, then the next, and so on.

Pictures of sick fish? Sunken stomach is usually parasites or starvation

Normally I wouldn’t either but I’ve tried to pace my dosages and it wasn’t doing much to help this fish.

 

What is
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Of this tank

 

Platy in the tank
Feeding every three days.
Using display tank water to fill the quarantine tank.
Obviously I’m doing water checks on my display time as well. Specially after adding medication.

Quarantine Tank
Ammonia - almost .25
Nitrite- 0 ppm
Nítrate - 5 ppm
PH- 7.2 ppm

 

Erythromycin is a poor choice of antibiotic for fish and ich meds are a little too toxic to use without a good reason.

 

Hmm, should I stop treatment after 1 week then? What do I use instead? The fish still looks sick!

 

Personally I rarely medicate, big no for me to mix meds. Medication is REALLY hard on fish. So you're likely to cause issues with some of your fish just by hitting them with so much medication so quickly.

I don't bring that many fish in so I generally don't treat when they're in the quarantine tank. I monitor them for a few weeks and only treat as needed, but some choose to to a general treatment on all that's really preference. I just wouldn't mix meds as they can counter act each other or cause unneeded stress to the fish. I'd complete one medication, wait a few days, then the next, and so on.

Absolutely agree. You only pois... pardon, treat the fish if necessary.

In this case something against internal parasites would be the only thing I'd use for treatment. The instructions on the bottle are there for a reason, I'd use them accordingly.
Sadly I can't suggest a product, because most we use here are not available in the US. Just looked that up.

 

Prazipro is for internal parasites, right?

 

I agre

Personally I rarely medicate, big no for me to mix meds. Medication is REALLY hard on fish. So you're likely to cause issues with some of your fish just by hitting them with so much medication so quickly.

I don't bring that many fish in so I generally don't treat when they're in the quarantine tank. I monitor them for a few weeks and only treat as needed, but some choose to to a general treatment on all that's really preference. I just wouldn't mix meds as they can counter act each other or cause unneeded stress to the fish. I'd complete one medication, wait a few days, then the next, and so on.

I agree with this approach. There is the stress on the fish bring thrown into quarantine, lack of clean water and water changes, lambasted with a medication cocktail. I see this more as a test how much a fish is able to survive this.
My approach as well is to provide the best environment, watch closely and treat to the point.

 

Prazipro is for internal parasites, right?

Praziquantel (the active ingredient) is against worms. Should the parasite be a tapeworm it is the right thing to use. Usually it's flagellates. Then it's useless.

 

Quarantining is what I considered the best environment for this particular fish otherwise she might get all the other fish sick. The QT has two air bumps for extra aeration, heater, hiding spot, etc.

I understand the benefits of not overmedicating.

On that note, I’m not sure HOW to narrow down the medication so the “cocktail” is more specific but I do not know which SINGLE medication to use after the 7th day and water change.

Thanks again!

Praziquantel (the active ingredient) is against worms. Should the parasite be a tapeworm it is the right thing to use. Usually it's flagellates. Then it's useless.

Kinda stuck on what to use after this week, unless I let the fish stay in quarantine without any medication.

Erythromycin is a poor choice of antibiotic for fish and ich meds are a little too toxic to use without a good reason.

Which antibiotic would you recommend?

 

Uhhhh in your initial post your mentioning.
quarantiing and treating fish in one breath.

To me these are different things. QT-ing is to see if fish get sick during a sort of incubationperiod.

Sick fish need to be treated for the disease that is diagnosed. That in fact is an hospital-tank.

Using a blend of several meds (for several not diagnosed diseases) is not a good idea.
Some meds (and certainly antibiotics) also kill good bacteria and microlife which add to a fish health. Others only work on the disease itself. It is not like a vaccin or so.

This way of treatment weaks fish and leave us resistant bacteria and parasites.

 

On that note, I’m not sure HOW to narrow down the medication so the “cocktail” is more specific but I do not know which SINGLE medication to use after the 7th day and water change.

In general, when you don't want to precautiously medicate, put fish in quarantine and wait a week.
No white dots? - So no ich-meds.
No white/grey patches - So no antifungal meds.
No fluffy stuff - So nothing antibacterial.
No sunken in bellies, no slimy, stringy long poop and everybody eating - no internal parasites

But you might want to have one med for each catergory at hand. Broadband meds against several things at once can work (the Sera product does in my experience) but often don't.

Kinda stuck on what to use after this week, unless I let the fish stay in quarantine without any medication.

As internal parasites seem to be definitely the problem, try something against internal worms and something against flagellates. If the fish doesn't eat after a week of treatment with the first one, try the second. If that also doesn't work... well... Then the fish will likely not make it.

 

Uhhhh in your initial post your mentioning.
quarantiing and treating fish in one breath.

To me these are different things. QT-ing is to see if fish get sick during a sort of incubationperiod.

Sick fish need to be treated for the disease that is diagnosed. That in fact is an hospital-tank.

Using a blend of several meds (for several not diagnosed diseases) is not a good idea.
Some meds (and certainly antibiotics) also kill good bacteria and microlife which add to a fish health. Others only work on the disease itself. It is not like a vaccin or so.

This way of treatment weaks fish and leave us resistant bacteria and parasites.

I stand corrected. Based on what you describe, what I have is a hospital tank, then.

In my head, the fish is “quarantined” or separated from the rest of the fish because she is exhibiting signs of illness. What kind of Illness? I don’t know. I’ve been trying to find out for about 2 weeks. A very gracious member asked to see pictures and water parameters, which I’ve provided.


thank you!

In general, when you don't want to precautiously medicate, put fish in quarantine and wait a week.
No white dots? - So no ich-meds.
No white/grey patches - So no antifungal meds.
No fluffy stuff - So nothing antibacterial.
No sunken in bellies, no slimy, stringy long poop and everybody eating - no internal parasites

But you might want to have one med for each catergory at hand. Broadband meds against several things at once can work (the Sera product does in my experience) but often don't.



As internal parasites seem to be definitely the problem, try something against internal worms and something against flagellates. If the fish doesn't eat after a week of treatment with the first one, try the second. If that also doesn't work... well... Then the fish will likely not make it.

In general, when you don't want to precautiously medicate, put fish in quarantine and wait a week.
No white dots? - So no ich-meds.
No white/grey patches - So no antifungal meds.
No fluffy stuff - So nothing antibacterial.
No sunken in bellies, no slimy, stringy long poop and everybody eating - no internal parasites

But you might want to have one med for each catergory at hand. Broadband meds against several things at once can work (the Sera product does in my experience) but often don't.



As internal parasites seem to be definitely the problem, try something against internal worms and something against flagellates. If the fish doesn't eat after a week of treatment with the first one, try the second. If that also doesn't work... well... Then the fish will likely not make it.

Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it! One can only hope but it helps to have some Sense of direction as to how to treat in the upcoming weeks. I don’t want to cook the fish by overmedicating.

In general, when you don't want to precautiously medicate, put fish in quarantine and wait a week.
No white dots? - So no ich-meds.
No white/grey patches - So no antifungal meds.
No fluffy stuff - So nothing antibacterial.
No sunken in bellies, no slimy, stringy long poop and everybody eating - no internal parasites

But you might want to have one med for each catergory at hand. Broadband meds against several things at once can work (the Sera product does in my experience) but often don't.



As internal parasites seem to be definitely the problem, try something against internal worms and something against flagellates. If the fish doesn't eat after a week of treatment with the first one, try the second. If that also doesn't work... well... Then the fish will likely not make it.

Thanks for your help! You guys/gals rocks!

Uhhhh in your initial post your mentioning.
quarantiing and treating fish in one breath.

To me these are different things. QT-ing is to see if fish get sick during a sort of incubationperiod.

Sick fish need to be treated for the disease that is diagnosed. That in fact is an hospital-tank.

Using a blend of several meds (for several not diagnosed diseases) is not a good idea.
Some meds (and certainly antibiotics) also kill good bacteria and microlife which add to a fish health. Others only work on the disease itself. It is not like a vaccin or so.

This way of treatment weaks fish and leave us resistant bacteria and parasites.

Thanks for the clarification. Always a good time to learn the right words for the hobby!

 

Prazipro is for internal parasites, right?

Actually it won't treat ALL internal parasites. For most worms, you'd need a dewormer such as Levamisole HCI or Fenbendazole. Such as:
-Stomach worms
-Roundworms
-Nodular worms
-Hookworms
-Lungworms

Levamisole Hydrochloride — Loaches Online

Nematodes (roundworms) in particular are a common problem. Nematodes such as Capillaria, Eustronggylides, Camallanus, and Contracaecum are common among many fish species. Levamisole HCl is highly effective as a treatment against nematode species.

I use Levamisole or fenbendazole (dewormer) for these

But for cestodes and trematodes, Prazi is effective.
Cestodes (tapeworms)
For Cestodes the recommended treatment is Praziquantel.
Trematodes (flatworms or flukes)

I do medicate in QT but against certain things only that might go missed in QT and that already burned me once before and for certain issues that commonly affect certain fish.

One thing I will never ever dose preemptively is an antibiotic. They should only be used for a particular ailment because certain antibiotics are for for certain bacteria and the wrong one can be more detrimental than helpful. Just FYI!

 

Actually it won't treat ALL internal parasites. For most worms, you'd need a dewormer such as Levamisole HCI or Fenbendazole. Such as:
-Stomach worms
-Roundworms
-Nodular worms
-Hookworms
-Lungworms

Levamisole Hydrochloride — Loaches Online

I use Levamisole or fenbendazole (dewormer) for these

But for cestodes and trematodes, Prazi is effective.
Cestodes (tapeworms)
For Cestodes the recommended treatment is Praziquantel.
Trematodes (flatworms or flukes)

I do medicate in QT but against certain things only that might go missed in QT and that already burned me once before.

One thing I will never ever dose preemptively is an antibiotic. They should only be used for a particular ailment because certain antibiotics are for for certain bacteria and the wrong one can be more detrimental than helpful. Just FYI!

Can Fenbendazole and Prazipro be use together or do you recommend spacing them out (just asking!)
I am pretty sure my fish has wasting disease and General cure or Metroplex w/ Prazipro is recommended treatment.

 

Can Fenbendazole and Prazipro be use together or do you recommend spacing them out (just asking!)
I am pretty sure my fish has wasting disease and General cure or Metroplex w/ Prazipro is recommended treatment.

For Fenbendazole I use it in a food soak. I make Repashy gel food infused with it. And garlic juice and Epsom salts.

Especially if I suspect wasting (already an issue) I do 2 or even 3 treatments each 2 weeks apart. I feed for 3 days straight exclusively.

I personally wait 2 weeks before treating with something else. I would watch the fish for improvement and it would take at least 2 weeks to find out.

If a dewormer doesn't seem to help (it did for me), I would feed Metro in a food soak and Prazi in the water simultaneously. Those two are the ingredients in GC, so can be combined. Just with the Metro, it does not stay effective that long in the water, or not so soluable. So I feed it for greater effectiveness against internal issues (Hexamita).

It's best to try and get the best idea of your ailment before using meds though. I researched like mad and when I saw a red dot at the vent of some of my fish (along with wasting) I figured it was camallanus and the dewormer fixed the issue.

With Hexamita you might see clear stringy poop, isolation, facing corners/ back walls, wasting.

FYI if it's Hexamita, Metro is the med to use, if it's nematodes, you'll need a dewormer. That's my experience.

 

Recomn

Can Fenbendazole and Prazipro be use together or do you recommend spacing them out (just asking!)
I am pretty sure my fish has wasting disease and General cure or Metroplex w/ Prazipro is recommended treatment.

Most of this recommended treatment advises are in fact "We don't know the hack what we're dealing with, so throw in everything we can get"?

In fact the trio med-advice is a sort of scam. $ 50,-- for uncertainty. If fish die we were too late, if fish survive it is the meds. Yeah right.

Read this post. ONLY 2 corys died in 24 hours ???????? And the meds seem to be working ????????? OMG

Think and try to pinpoint treatment. Don't shoot with hail at a mosquito. Don't believe in anything "general" cause diseases are not "general".

As I said in Ich-trearment before I think the most deadly risk fish can encounter is a human trying to treat it.

This IS meand in "general" and certainly not against the OP trying to save his fish.

 

Which antibiotic would you recommend?

Trimethoprim or ciprofloxacin if Aeromonas is suspected.

The fish often have vague symptoms as is your case which can be caused by a myriad of things. I would probably start with metronidazole for Hexamita since it's pretty common then praziquantel for cestodes, levamisole for nematodes, and then consider an antibacterial.

You can't trust commercial aquarium treatments to get the dose correct. A lot of times they just list a bunch of ingredients because they know the customer is looking for something with X in it. So they put X in it just not enough.

 

Good to know! I’m learning SO MUCH!

 

Trimethoprim or ciprofloxacin if Aeromonas is suspected.

The fish often have vague symptoms as is your case which can be caused by a myriad of things. I would probably start with metronidazole for Hexamita since it's pretty common then praziquantel for cestodes, levamisole for nematodes, and then consider an antibacterial.

You can't trust commercial aquarium treatments to get the dose correct. A lot of times they just list a bunch of ingredients because they know the customer is looking for something with X in it. So they put X in it just not enough.

Reading this I have to think and chime in with DoubleDutch:
Does it even matter anymore at that point? The stuff you listed amounts to what? 100 bucks if you get everything, provided all is available without prescription? Then going through all the treatments... The fish likely dies from the treatments, not the disease.

Prevention will hopefully be the lesson learned. Sourcing from a safe and clean source, quarantining and avoiding species/breeds that generally tend to be in weak health.

 

Reading this I have to think and chime in with DoubleDutch:
Does it even matter anymore at that point? The stuff you listed amounts to what? 100 bucks if you get everything, provided all is available without prescription? Then going through all the treatments... The fish likely dies from the treatments, not the disease.

Prevention will hopefully be the lesson learned. Sourcing from a safe and clean source, quarantining and avoiding species/breeds that generally tend to be in weak health.

Antibiotics are very safe. They're probably hundreds of thousands or even millions of times safer than typical aquarium treatments. This is something that aquarists don't seem to grasp.

A fish with a serious Aeromonas infection probably only has a 5% chance of survival on its own. A classic too-dangerous-to-use-except-as-a-last-resort antibiotic such as chloramphenicol is fatal in 1/40,000 people.

Compare that to an ich treatment that has maybe a 50% of working but a 50% chance of killing your fish.

 

That's actually not what I meant. I was more referring to the availability and cost relation. Mea culpa. I know antibiotics are relatively safe, but it may be from my experience: Here all antibiotics are prescription meds. I would have to go to a vet and pay 300€ up front and most often sacrifice one of the sick fish for a diagnosis before I even get the prescription which will cost me roundabout 50€ at the pharmacy. Plus it would take a week until I have the meds. So unless I have to safe a whole fishroom or breeding setup full of fish that I want to sell for hundreds or thousands of bucks antibiotics are off the table as an option anyways. At least for one fish.

 

I have read through the thread, you've gotten some "Good Advice".
During this discussion, I do not see the mention of a simple Initial treatment, I and other keepers do is a proper "Water Change".

My routine right now, as mentioned, "New" purchase - "Quarantine" tank minimum 2 weeks, "Sick" fish - "Hospital" tank, with that said some "Fish" just die, through no fault of our own.
Of course when you discover you have a "Sick" fish, you want to do your best to help, even though you have "No" idea what is wrong. During "Research" it was recommended to have "Meds" on hand, for the what if this or that, better to have and not need vs need and not have. So I purchased the meds which have been discussed, which by the way I still have unopened.
Some might say I have been "Lucky", works for me.
Just my .02

Good Luck!

 

That's actually not what I meant. I was more referring to the availability and cost relation. Mea culpa. I know antibiotics are relatively safe, but it may be from my experience: Here all antibiotics are prescription meds. I would have to go to a vet and pay 300€ up front and most often sacrifice one of the sick fish for a diagnosis before I even get the prescription which will cost me roundabout 50€ at the pharmacy. Plus it would take a week until I have the meds. So unless I have to safe a whole fishroom or breeding setup full of fish that I want to sell for hundreds or thousands of bucks antibiotics are off the table as an option anyways. At least for one fish.

And the funny thing is that I doubt the survival rate of fish is any different than in countries that have antibiotics without description.

Also the question can be asked "what is relatively safe" about antibiotics.
Safe as in surviving treatment? Antibiotics aren't safe for the environment, the microlife and balance in a tank and in the place where tankwater ends up, the good bacteria keeping fish healthy, etc etc....

Even in humans. A familymember got antibiotics to treat a certain bacteria.
Next test : The bacteria was gone, but an even worse one took over. Balance was gone.

I think we have to accept that aquariummeds are the greatest stuff to sell for a company. If the fish survives or dies isn't important. The brands are NEVER accountable for the fact if it works or it doesn't. In the first case we'll never know the med did it and in the second we didn't treat it the right way or too late.

Esha 2000 the Dutch wonder- and fairy tale med from the seventees, which never has been changed is a great example. Cheap, treats "everything" (besides Ebola I believe).
But does it do "anything". I seriously doubt it.

Always stay sharp and sceptical when aquabrands are telling things. Think !!! The mentioned retailer has a great marketing strategy. But always "read between the lines" if it is telling something. Think about a company is different than a fishkeeper and its owners and employees have different interest than that same fishkeeper. The simple thought a dead fish for a company means another sell (and profit) but for a fishkeeper is a devestating event and costs. 180 degree difference.

So far the sceptical Dutchman.

 

And the funny thing is that I doubt the survival rate of fish is any different than in countries that have antibiotics without description.

And the reason for this is that the products used by hobbyists (erythromycin, Kanaplex, metronidazole, Furan-2) are largely ineffective.

The galaxy brain aquarists will skip those and use the antibiotics I recommend which are much more effective. Someone in my local club recently had what she believed was a Columnaris outbreak. She reported that Kanaplex and Furan-2 didn't work (no surprise there). But then she did the unexpected and used ciprofloxacin which worked like a champ.

Also the question can be asked "what is relatively safe" about antibiotics.
Safe as in surviving treatment? Antibiotics aren't safe for the environment, the microlife and balance in a tank and in the place where tankwater ends up, the good bacteria keeping fish healthy, etc etc....

Even in humans. A familymember got antibiotics to treat a certain bacteria.
Next test : The bacteria was gone, but an even worse one took over. Balance was gone.

Safe as in being less dangerous than the disease.

If you want to think of antibiotic resistance as a tragedy of the commons then you're sacrificing your fish so a factory farm can indiscriminately use massive amounts of antibiotics to boost profits. The big corporations thank you for your sacrifice.

I think we have to accept that aquariummeds are the greatest stuff to sell for a company. If the fish survives or dies isn't important. The brands are NEVER accountable for the fact if it works or it doesn't. In the first case we'll never know the med did it and in the second we didn't treat it the right way or too late.

Esha 2000 the Dutch wonder- and fairy tale med from the seventees, which never has been changed is a great example. Cheap, treats "everything" (besides Ebola I believe).
But does it do "anything". I seriously doubt it.

I agree and I'm holding them accountable. I'm sure you've seen me tell people that Kanaplex is massively underdosed. And that ParaGuard is really just an ich treatment...