Quarantine And Meds? Or No?

So I recently was growing out a Redtail cat/tiger Shovelnose Hybrid, it got madly infected with ich and didn't make it. I only had him a week! I'm going to try this again. I currently have the tank at 90 degrees F I think I'm gonna keep it like that for a couple weeks. Along with replacing all filter media. Also going to add a sponge filter for extra filtering during quarantine. Would you recommend any meds or treatment or just no med quarantine in case something comes up? May get a normal Redtail and a normal tiger Shovelnose also along with a replacement hybrid. I have the pool pond already set up so this is mainly just to ensure they aren't sick first. All the research I've done has honestly left me more confused than when I started reading lol. Please help

 

How big is this quarantine tank, and does it have any substrate? Typically, I prefer bare bottom QTs (something I learned from the local university lab) as it makes teardowns so much easier. I just drain and spray well with 70% rubbing alcohol. I take the filter apart and spray it down, too. Then I let it all drain and air dry.

 

I would use Paraguard because it's the closest thing to a cure all and it makes sure the fish are free from anything just in case before going into their new home. It's a very gentle medication that's safe for fish even if they're not sick.

 

How do you use Paragaurd in a quarantine tank before adding fish to main tank? How much of it do you use and for how long do you add it before you add the new fish to the main tank?

 

How big is this quarantine tank, and does it have any substrate? Typically, I prefer bare bottom QTs (something I learned from the local university lab) as it makes teardowns so much easier. I just drain and spray well with 70% rubbing alcohol. I take the filter apart and spray it down, too. Then I let it all drain and air dry.

It is a 40 breeder. And the pool is the rectangular shaped one at Walmart. 8x5x2 and that's just the temporary pool until we move next year then it will be even bigger. And yes it will be bare bottom.

I would use Paraguard because it's the closest thing to a cure all and it makes sure the fish are free from anything just in case before going into their new home. It's a very gentle medication that's safe for fish even if they're not sick.

Just follow the directions or do you suggest something else?

 

Just follow the directions or do you suggest something else?

Yeah you follow the directions and redose everyday because it evaporates after 24 hours for 2 weeks, though if it's a 40 gallon quarantine tank, it's gonna be too much and too expensive. So you're probably better off just doing regular quarantine for 3 weeks.

 

How do you use Paragaurd in a quarantine tank before adding fish to main tank? How much of it do you use and for how long do you add it before you add the new fish to the main tank?

You use it like any other medication. You dose according to the directions 1 capful (5ml) per 10 gallons or 10 drops per gallon, redose every 24 hours because it evaporates. It's recommend to add it for 2 weeks because that how long most parasites/dieseases last before they die and the fish is clear.

 

You use it like any other medication. You dose according to the directions 1 capful (5ml) per 10 gallons or 10 drops per gallon, redose every 24 hours because it evaporates. It's recommend to add it for 2 weeks because that how long most parasites/dieseases last before they die and the fish is clear.

Thanks

 

You use it like any other medication. You dose according to the directions 1 capful (5ml) per 10 gallons or 10 drops per gallon, redose every 24 hours because it evaporates. It's recommend to add it for 2 weeks because that how long most parasites/dieseases last before they die and the fish is clear.

So do you recommend starting a new fish or 2 on meds or without? In your honest opinion, if you were to get 1 tiger Shovelnose (in my case), would you medicate it for the first month or just put it in an estabolished tank and monitor first.

 

So do you recommend starting a new fish or 2 on meds or without? In your honest opinion, if you were to get 1 tiger Shovelnose (in my case), would you medicate it for the first month or just put it in an estabolished tank and monitor first.

If it's Paraguard, then I would put fish on that medication because it's safe. Depends on you but I would just monitor because catfish (or any scaleless fish) are sensitive to medication, Paraguard's fine for them, but it's quite expensive for a quarantine tank that large.

 

If it's Paraguard, then I would put fish on that medication because it's safe. Depends on you but I would just monitor because catfish (or any scaleless fish) are sensitive to medication, Paraguard's fine for them, but it's quite expensive for a quarantine tank that large.

I do have a couple 20 longs I can use so it's less cost. I'm more worried about the size of the fish in a 20 long. Granted it should only need to be in quarantine for a couple weeks to a month.

 

Just do regular quarantine, better to give a fish like that the room.

 

Just do regular quarantine, better to give a fish like that the room.

That's what I was thinking. And money isn't much of an issue as much as saving the fish from dying id rather lose 50-80 from using meds to save fish than the 150-200 to lose all the new fish that I'll be quarantining.

 

No quarantine and not prophlatic meds for me. I use to de-worm new fish, but usually the fish farm or wholesaler will do this before being sent to the pet-store anyway.
Theres nothing I'm worried about that I can't easily identify or kill, I just use formalin or quick cure for parasites. I keep on hand several types of medicated flakes, levimasole, Oxytetracycline, and General cure flake. In case I should ever need them (rare)
Bacterial infections are systemic, meaning they should not hurt the fish unless its immune system is compromised for whatever reason.

 

This is such a touchy subject, some feel QT without meds is fine using the watch and see method, others prophylactically treat new fish in QT the same manner each time.

I used to QT for 3 or more months minimum, I ended up with a parasitic nematode in my show tank! I am still waiting to see if I have eradicated it. I lost 6 cichlids to the worm by the time I realized I had a problem. For me, I will always deworm fish at least in QT to have that never happen again. I lost so many fish because intestinal worms snuck thru QT.

But I will not use antibiotics or antibacterial meds unless I know I need them to not cause immunity.

In fact, I don't mind waiting and watching for a lot of issues, but nematodes you just can't see with limited symptoms. I didn't know I had a problem until 3 years after the tank was infected, meaning fish can have them without you knowing until it's too late.

That's my experience.

 

This is such a touchy subject, some feel QT without meds is fine using the watch and see method, others prophylactically treat new fish in QT the same manner each time.

I used to QT for 3 or more months minimum, I ended up with a parasitic nematode in my show tank! I am still waiting to see if I have eradicated it. I lost 6 cichlids to the worm by the time I realized I had a problem. For me, I will always deworm fish at least in QT to have that never happen again. I lost so many fish because intestinal worms snuck thru QT.

But I will not use antibiotics or antibacterial meds unless I know I need them to not cause immunity.

In fact, I don't mind waiting and watching for a lot of issues, but nematodes you just can't see with limited symptoms. I didn't know I had a problem until 3 years after the tank was infected, meaning fish can have them without you knowing until it's too late.

That's my experience.

I guess I'm just worried cuz my last Redtail/tigershovelnose hybrid got ich or some sort of disease. That killed it in 3 days. I've had salt in the 86 degree tank for 3 days now to kill off what ichs left for a second time. The first time was with the last setup in the same tank in which my Raphael cat, a few red shiners, and some baby bristlenose all died from ich. Ottocinclis dies from a fungus that ate their fins at the same exact time. The parameters are and we're golden in all scenarios. Which has lead me to believe that from any of my local stores I truly need to medicate these fish. All my other tanks that I drove 45 minutes to a store to get fish for have survived absolutely everything but it seems whatever gets into this specific 40 breeder dies from some sort of sickness. Which is why I personally I am asking the question. I'm just worried of more losses to this cursed tank haha. Last time I didn't change the filter media tho after salt treatment I just rinsed the out of them. And did frequent water changes to get all the salt and funk out.

 

Stress more than anything brings on these issues. Meds can stress fish even more. If your getting new fish from the petstore, I think its best to have an antibiotic flake on hand and de-wormer tho just incase you notice any tail rot or stringy poop.

 

What I'll do is I'll keep the tank without a substrate. Dose heavy on the salt, 5ppt or more, for about a week or 2 just to ensure all the ich is dead. Then I'll water change the heck out of it. After no salt is present I'll add in new filter media and some seachem stability to kick start the tank. And after about a week of treatment I'll add some fish. With no meds. Unless I see an issue. Usually we have none other than ich so I'll just make sure that and the fungus are dead.

 

I use this QT procedure now against Ich

Paraguard and salt (sodium chloride). 2-3 tsp of salt per gallon and full strength Paraguard for 2-3 weeks at 82-84°F.


You can also get the new fish in a Methylene Blue bath at 1ml per gallon for 1hr before they go into QT. This also helps get the nasties from the LFS off the fish scales. The fish will have no problem breathing in the meth blue, it facilitates oxygen absorption for the fish. Completely safe and potentially saves a lot of heartache.

Note: Salt is used depending on the species. That said, even sensitive scaleless species have been fine.

 

Also, if you're not worried about starting the cycle again, I might disinfect the 40 gallon tank and equipment with a bottle of hydrogen peroxide, rinse and air dry before putting back into operation.

 

And just for additional info, I didn't see any white poop with the nematode infestation. I really didn't see anything until the fish were emaciated and it was too late. If I looked really really closely at the vent when the lights first turned on, I barely saw something pinkish. But it quickly retracted with the daylight. Not an easy thing to spot at all. I have been keeping fish for more than 10 years, and I had the nematode in my system for 3 years before I saw any issues!

 

Also, if you're not worried about starting the cycle again, I might disinfect the 40 gallon tank and equipment with a bottle of hydrogen peroxide, rinse and air dry before putting back into operation.

Yes I'm going to do that because I'm convinced the tank is infected. Not the water, hardscapes, or the fish.

 

And just for additional info, I didn't see any white poop with the nematode infestation. I really didn't see anything until the fish were emaciated and it was too late. If I looked really really closely at the vent when the lights first turned on, I barely saw something pinkish. But it quickly retracted with the daylight. Not an easy thing to spot at all. I have been keeping fish for more than 10 years, and I had the nematode in my system for 3 years before I saw any issues!

Yea that's why I'm starting to lean towards medicating to eliminate a problem before it starts. But I'm also afraid it will be like a flue shot. You gotta get sick to prevent it. You can't really prevent something you've never had.

 

Yea that's why I'm starting to lean towards medicating to eliminate a problem before it starts. But I'm also afraid it will be like a flue shot. You gotta get sick to prevent it. You can't really prevent something you've never had.

You are right. But if you deworm new fish in QT before they are added to your system, the chances they ever get infected are nil. Once they are infected, it might take out many of your beloved fish and the nematode is hard to eradicate in a large tank with many fish. Just my 2 cents to share my experience.

If you deworm your fish in QT, it won't prevent them from becoming infected if you fail to deworm new infected fish going forward and add them to the main tank.

Only antibiotics will create an immunity as far as I know. That's why someone suggested medicated antibacterial flakes to have on hand instead of dosing the water.

 

You are right. But if you deworm new fish in QT before they are added to your system, the chances they ever get infected are nil. Once they are infected, it might take out many of your beloved fish and the nematode is hard to eradicate in a large tank with many fish. Just my 2 cents to share my experience.

If you deworm your fish in QT, it won't prevent them from becoming infected if you fail to deworm new infected fish going forward and add them to the main tank.

Only antibiotics will create an immunity as far as I know. That's why someone suggested medicated antibacterial flakes to have on hand instead of dosing the water.

Do you recommend a specific way to deworm them? Being their monster fish and will have a lot of growing to do I want to ensure they're healthy.

 

Also

You are right. But if you deworm new fish in QT before they are added to your system, the chances they ever get infected are nil. Once they are infected, it might take out many of your beloved fish and the nematode is hard to eradicate in a large tank with many fish. Just my 2 cents to share my experience.

If you deworm your fish in QT, it won't prevent them from becoming infected if you fail to deworm new infected fish going forward and add them to the main tank.

Only antibiotics will create an immunity as far as I know. That's why someone suggested medicated antibacterial flakes to have on hand instead of dosing the water.

Also being monster fish idk if they will eat flakes. It's hard enough to feed them something that isn't trying to run away.

 

Do you recommend a specific way to deworm them? Being their monster fish and will have a lot of growing to do I want to ensure they're healthy.

Oh ok, I totally agree. I use Levamisole 3 times for 3 weeks. 1/4 tsp per 100 gallons. Levamisole stays in the water for 24 hrs, (I leave the lights off too cuz I read it degrades with light) then a big water change and bottom siphon.

Here's the info I go by

Just make sure not to surpass the 2-3 ppm dosage.

I also add Epsom salts to the food, 3/4 of a tsp per 1/2 cup water. Let pellets soak and absorb the water. I only add enough water to just cover the food. You could try adding them to frozen foods as well, but I'm not sure how well it would absorb. The epsom salts affect as a laxative, helping the fish to pass any worms they might have.

 

Also

Also being monster fish idk if they will eat flakes. It's hard enough to feed them something that isn't trying to run away.

As for antibacterial food, I only use them if I know I need them. Tbh, any bacterial issue is hard to deal with IME, so if its not contagious, I'll put the sick fish in a QT/hospital tank and treat with salt and water changes. Sometimes I'll use kanamycin, but only in the QT/hospital tank. It really depends on the bacterial issue and degree of infection.

 

As for antibacterial food, I only use them if I know I need them. Tbh, any bacterial issue is hard to deal with IME, so if its not contagious, I'll put the sick fish in a QT/hospital tank and treat with salt and water changes. Sometimes I'll use kanamycin, but only in the QT/hospital tank. It really depends on the bacterial issue and degree of infection.

The craziest part is in 4 years not once have I had to use meds or salt. That's why I'm convinced the tanks the issue. Due to the last 2 sets of losses. But I was wrong haha. I'm going to try again for sure. Just gotta build up the funds again. Pool pond is already set up and cycling so I'm thinking in about a month I'll be able to transfer a couple monster over to it. Sounds like we may be adding yet another pool for gar and arowanas possibly stingrays. Well see tho.

 

Are these outside pools? I would think if they were outdoors, they'd be at risk for possible parasitic infection anyway. I'm not sure how to handle that. I was only speaking from a closed indoor system point of view.

 

Are these outside pools? I would think if they were outdoors, they'd be at risk for possible parasitic infection anyway. I'm not sure how to handle that. I was only speaking from a closed indoor system point of view.

They will all be indoor ponds. I have a huge basement. The main fish room is approximately 60x40 foot

 

It's basically gonna be like having a fish store in my basement lol. Gonna start growing my own plants and continuing my breeding projects. We currently do a couple cichlids, plecos, shrimp and rainbowfish. But we're starting to stray from some of the easier fish you could say.

 

Good luck with your endeavor. Basements get pretty cold in Minnesota, how are you heating the water?

 

Good luck with your endeavor. Basements get pretty cold in Minnesota, how are you heating the water?

Our basement usually sticks around 68-75 degrees. Which should be good for those monsters. I am debating on some sort of heater to keep it a steady temp. But then again no body of water stays the same temp forever.

 

Wow, love your idea. I had a smaller scale thing going on a few years ago, but I never got quite set up. I would love to see what you do. The pool idea sounds really cool! Might be best if you could insulate the area well and heat the air for so much volume. I wish you all the best!

If you are planning on selling plants and fish, best deal is to treat new fish prophylactically. One beautiful thing about locally raised fish is they seem to do better with similar water parameters when rehomed, less travel stress and so on. Locally raised fish always did the best for me.

 

Wow, love your idea. I had a smaller scale thing going on a few years ago, but I never got quite set up. I would love to see what you do. The pool idea sounds really cool! Might be best if you could insulate the area well and heat the air for so much volume. I wish you all the best!

If you are planning on selling plants and fish, best deal is to treat new fish prophylactically. One beautiful thing about locally raised fish is they seem to do better with similar water parameters when rehomed, less travel stress and so on. Locally raised fish always did the best for me.

I honestly can't wait til it's all set up and I'll be sure to share progression. Yea tho I only plan to sell locally. Alot of my local stores would like to stray from imported orders as much as possible so I kind of fill that void currently with fish and a few plants. But again most of this will be temporary. We are moving next summer. Depending where we move will regulate where I should sell the fish and such. The next place will most likely be well water also so it "should" pan out to help the fish and plants grow better and faster. I've noticed my current city water must have low minerals just by how much ferts and high quality substrate I need to use currently.

 

I think you'll regret it if you don't use aquariums, tho I understand wanting to save money.

 

I think you'll regret it if you don't use aquariums, tho I understand wanting to save money.

I already have a bunch of aquariums. 14 to be exact. Plus I will be rescueing full grown monsters. And they don't fit in aquariums. Maybe with stunted growth yes. But my uncle's old hybrid rtc/tsc was 5'3". Lemme know when you can afford an aquarium for that lol. I would need a 3000 gallon aquarium just for what I'm doing. But I'll take my chances with a 3000-5000 gallon pool instead lol. Way cheaper. Plus majority of your monster fish look way better from above.

 

Yeah, well as a guy who changes his mind every 5 minutes I was just trying to warn you that you are gonna want to see them in a glass aquarium at some point too.
Pictures of this basement fishroom when its done!!
BTW, a dehumidifier can lower the relative humidity and put out a lot of heat, and they shouldnt take too too much electricity, especially in winter when your not running the AC.
You don't want black mold growing down there, and your gonna want it a little warmer when its -10f for a week straight in january lol

 

Yeah, well as a guy who changes his mind every 5 minutes I was just trying to warn you that you are gonna want to see them in a glass aquarium at some point too.
Pictures of this basement fishroom when its done!!
BTW, a dehumidifier can lower the relative humidity and put out a lot of heat, and they shouldnt take too too much electricity, especially in winter when your not running the AC.
You don't want black mold growing down there, and your gonna want it a little warmer when its -10f for a week straight in january lol

I hear ya lol. This is something I've been contemplating for a few years. Alot of my lfs have nowhere to send the monsters other than someones kitchen. So they're willing to give me supplies if needed also. Hence why we may just do 2 pools instead of just one. We will most likely do lids on the pools also with lighting defusers or green house roofing. As far as dehumidifiers we already have one but I'm thinking of adding 2 more. We shall see if I go with 2 pools or one tho. Thank you for the advice tho I highly appreciate it. I just have a lot of people backing me up on this so my fear level is very very small. Just live in the right place at the right time haha.