Prime / Stability / Cycling Questions

Hello all, a bit new to all this so any advice would be appreciated. 2 weeks ago I bought a bottle of Prime and Stability to cycle my new tank. For the first week I added Stability as indicated on the bottle. I didn't add any additional ammonia source except for plants. A week later I went to my aquarium and they said I should have treated the water with Prime before adding stability and that I needed to add an extra source of ammonia. Rookie error. So I added Prime to my tank and added 2 ppm of liquid ammonia. I've been dosing stability again for a week now but my ammonia stays constant and no trace of nitrites or nitrates after 1 week. My questions are, should I continue to add stability past the 7 day mark? Should I empty my tank and start again? Or is this just normal and I should stop adding additional Stability and give the tank time for the bacteria to grow and wait for nitrites to appear? Many thanks!

 

Hi, my ammonia looks like it's at 0.5ppm today, (hard to say because the. 25 ppm colour is so similar) should I bump it up to 2ppm or wait another day? Thanks!

 

Hi, my ammonia looks like it's at 0.5ppm today, (hard to say because the. 25 ppm colour is so similar) should I bump it up to 2ppm or wait another day? Thanks!

I would go ahead and bump it back up to 2ppm since it may actually be .25

 

Thanks again mattgirl. I bumped the ammonia back up to 2ppm yesterday. I think my cycle is progressing nicely, i measured 10ppm of nitrates today ammonia and nitrite still at 2ppm. I'll keep measuring daily and add ammonia whenever it drops to. 25. Do I ever have to worry about nitrites going too high and stalling my cycle? If it goes to 5ppm for example should i do a water change or not worry? Thanks, think im getting close now

 

Thanks again mattgirl. I bumped the ammonia back up to 2ppm yesterday. I think my cycle is progressing nicely, i measured 10ppm of nitrates today ammonia and nitrite still at 2ppm. I'll keep measuring daily and add ammonia whenever it drops to. 25. Do I ever have to worry about nitrites going too high and stalling my cycle? If it goes to 5ppm for example should i do a water change or not worry? Thanks, think im getting close now

As long as the ammonia you add is going back down close to .25 after 24 hours your cycle is still moving forward. Should that stop happening then it will be time to do a water change get nitrites and nitrates down and replenish the mineral depleted by the cycling process. Be sure to keep an eye on the pH too. It is important to keep it above 7 during this process.

 

Thanks mattgirl. I just checked pH and it's 7.2 so that's ok. The ammonia is taking closer to 4 days to go to. 25-.5 ppm. But nitrites don't seem too high at 2ppm and nitrates at 10. Shall i just give it time or do you think the cycle is stalled and needs a 50% water change? I thought complete ammonia reduction in 24 hours was the sign the cycle was nearly over, but it took a few days within the first week if seeing nitrites.
I just checked ammonia and it's at 1ppm, down from 2ppm 2 days earlier. Is that OK or has my cycle stalled as it's not going close to 0 in 24 hours? Thanks!

 

Thanks mattgirl. I just checked pH and it's 7.2 so that's ok. The ammonia is taking closer to 4 days to go to. 25-.5 ppm. But nitrites don't seem too high at 2ppm and nitrates at 10. Shall i just give it time or do you think the cycle is stalled and needs a 50% water change? I thought complete ammonia reduction in 24 hours was the sign the cycle was nearly over, but it took a few days within the first week if seeing nitrites.
I just checked ammonia and it's at 1ppm, down from 2ppm 2 days earlier. Is that OK or has my cycle stalled as it's not going close to 0 in 24 hours? Thanks!

I would just give it more time for the ammonia to go down. As more ammonia eating bacteria grows the ammonia will go down quicker. If it has been at least 2 weeks since a water change it might not be a bad idea to do one to keep the minerals at a steady level.

 

Thanks mattgirl, i just did a 50% water change. My results before water change were Ammonia 0, nitrites off the chart and nitrates at 10. I did a half tap water test on the nitrites and it was still the same colour as the original nitrite tube which concerns me as this means they are at least 10ppm. I added 2ppm ammonia before the water change which I think was a mistake after reading a few other posts (with nitrites so high) . I guess the ammonia will be about 1 after water change but do you suggest I do water 50% changes every day to bring nitrites down to a decent level before adding any more ammonia? I didn't want to starve the ammonia eating bacteria if the nitrite spike lasted days that's why I added it but o know Dr Tim advises to not add any if either ammonia ir nitrites are over 5.Thanks

 

Update :
I measured my parameters a few hours after water change and PH=7, Ammonia =1ppm and by doing 25% nitrite test I conclude I have 8pm nitrites in tank.
Makes me wonder if my nitrites were 16 ppm before my water change! That seems like a massive spike,(literally overnight as my nitrites were 2ppm yesterday) I've only added 2ppm of ammonia last Thursday when my ammonia was 0.5ppm and nitrites were 2. I thought I was close to cycling before this. Any advice would be appreciated

 

I would do another water change to get those nitrites under 4ppm. People have claimed that nitrate levels above 5ppm can actually stall the cycle.

 

Update :
I measured my parameters a few hours after water change and PH=7, Ammonia =1ppm and by doing 25% nitrite test I conclude I have 8pm nitrites in tank.
Makes me wonder if my nitrites were 16 ppm before my water change! That seems like a massive spike,(literally overnight as my nitrites were 2ppm yesterday) I've only added 2ppm of ammonia last Thursday when my ammonia was 0.5ppm and nitrites were 2. I thought I was close to cycling before this. Any advice would be appreciated

You can do a water change to get them down or just wait it out and they will drop. When we are doing a fishless cycle we don't have to be overly concerned about the high levels of nitrites or nitrates. unless the ammonia stops going down. It is only them when we will know the cycle is stalled.

Doing another water change is not going to be a problem though. As long as the fresh water is temp matched and water conditioner has been added a water change isn't going to hurt anything.

By the way, I have seen nitrites spike from nothing to off the chart almost over night so what you experienced isn't unheard of. You didn't mention nitrates. How are they looking?

 

Thank you both. My nitrates were 10ppm before water change. Ok I think I'll do another water change and nitrites should go down to 4. Shall I wait till nitrites get down to 1ppm before adding more ammonia, even if it takes a week?

 

You want to keep your ammonia level up until your nitrites zero out

 

Thank you both. My nitrates were 10ppm before water change. Ok I think I'll do another water change and nitrites should go down to 4. Shall I wait till nitrites get down to 1ppm before adding more ammonia, even if it takes a week?

jdhef is right. Add ammonia each time it drops to or close to zero no matter the nitrite level. Eventually, and I hope it is soon, both the ammonia you add and the nitrites will drop to zero. By doing so you will be growing a strong colony of both ammonia and nitrite eating bacteria.

 

Thank you both. I think that's why fishless cycling is so tricky for beginners like me. Dr Tim, the inventor of the bacteria says not to add more ammonia until ammonia and nitrites read zero and not to worry about starving the bacteria.

I trust you guys but there's so many factors and sources of information available that you just have to pick one and hope it's right.

 

If you are using Dr. Tim's ammonia and Dr Tim's One & Only, you should definitly follow his guidance. I must have lost track somewhere, because I didn't realize you were using Dr Tim's One & Only.

 

Thank you both. I think that's why fishless cycling is so tricky for beginners like me. Dr Tim, the inventor of the bacteria says not to add more ammonia until ammonia and nitrites read zero and not to worry about starving the bacteria.

I trust you guys but there's so many factors and sources of information available that you just have to pick one and hope it's right.

I do agree that we aren't going to starve the bacteria if we wait for both to zero out before adding more ammonia. We can do that, wait for both to drop, add ammonia again and again have a nitrite spike. Wait for it to drop again. Rinse and repeat. Or we can continue adding ammonia until both drop to zero. either way we accomplish the same thing. There really is no wrong way. Just different ways to get to the same place.

 

Thanks both again. I thought that by waiting for both to zero out the nitrite spike would a lot less and I wouldn't have to do big water changes every day. After another big water change today I got nitrites down to 2.5 ppm. The 1ppm ammonia that was there yesterday was zero today. I'm going to try the Dr Tim way to hopefully avoid huge spikes and water changes and see how long it takes the nitrites to zero out. Hopefully not too long to go now.

 

Thanks both again. I thought that by waiting for both to zero out the nitrite spike would a lot less and I wouldn't have to do big water changes every day. After another big water change today I got nitrites down to 2.5 ppm. The 1ppm ammonia that was there yesterday was zero today. I'm going to try the Dr Tim way to hopefully avoid huge spikes and water changes and see how long it takes the nitrites to zero out. Hopefully not too long to go now.

When fishless cycling the big water changes are not needed. Just let the cycle run its course. When fishless cycling the only time a water change is really needed is if the ammonia stops going down. If that happens a water change will get it going again. Normally high nitrites and high nitrates will not stall a cycle. It takes a combination of things happening to cause a stall. A lot of times it is because the minerals are depleted and the pH plunges. Other times we don't know why it happened. No matter the reason, a water change will get it going again.

I do agree though. If one is going to use certain products then the instructions for using them should be followed. The one thing I have seen with these particular products is the instructions aren't exactly right. Such as the dosing of the ammonia. If the instructions are followed the ammonia in the tank is much higher than recommended. It seems the recommended dose raises the ammonia level up to 8ppm. From what i have been reading the ammonia should be no higher than 5ppm but lower is better.

I can see why someone new to the hobby can be confused. Folks want to trust these products. after all they are supposedly designed by a Doctor. They should know their products. It hasn't always been like this with the ammonium chloride. Something changed. The instructions should have changed to reflect that change.

 

Thanks mattgirl. Yes there is so much conflicting information out there that it's hard to know what do. I've read many times that very high nitrites can stall a cycle, that's why I did the WC, but I'll just let them run from now on. In one video Dr Tim says don't add ammonia until nitrite is zero, and on his website he says don't add ammonia if nitrite is above 5ppm. I'll add 2ppm ammonia today and hopefully this cycle keeps progressing.

 

Hi all,
I retested 24 hours after adding 2ppm Ammonia and happy to report that Ammonia is 0, so I didn't screw up my cycle by doing 2 large water changes and cleaning the sponge in my filter. Nitrites at 5ppm (using dilution method) and Nitrates at 10ppm. I guess my cycle is moving forward even though very slowly. I think rather than add ammonia everyday, and rather than wait for Nitrites to drop to 0 I will do best of both worlds and add Ammonia every other day and hopefully keep the Nitrite spike within reasonable levels. Been nearly 2 months now, thanks for your help

 

Hi all,
I retested 24 hours after adding 2ppm Ammonia and happy to report that Ammonia is 0, so I didn't screw up my cycle by doing 2 large water changes and cleaning the sponge in my filter. Nitrites at 5ppm (using dilution method) and Nitrates at 10ppm. I guess my cycle is moving forward even though very slowly. I think rather than add ammonia everyday, and rather than wait for Nitrites to drop to 0 I will do best of both worlds and add Ammonia every other day and hopefully keep the Nitrite spike within reasonable levels. Been nearly 2 months now, thanks for your help

Adding ammonia every other day is perfect and is something I often recommend at this point in a cycle. I applaud the boat load of patience you have had while cycling this tank. You will get there

 

Today was the day the test tube finally showed light blue!
I hope that means I'm cycled. I've re-dosed 2ppm Ammonia today, hopefully see zero ammonia and nitrites in 24 hours. Then I'll do a 50% WC and finally buy some fish I think. Do you think starting with 5 guppies in my 23gal tank would be ok or too much? Thanks again!!

 

Today was the day the test tube finally showed light blue!
I hope that means I'm cycled. I've re-dosed 2ppm Ammonia today, hopefully see zero ammonia and nitrites in 24 hours. Then I'll do a 50% WC and finally buy some fish I think. Do you think starting with 5 guppies in my 23gal tank would be ok or too much? Thanks again!!

Yay!!!! I am thrilled to read this update.

Since this tank is processing 2ppm ammonia you should be able to add more than just 5 guppies. You have grown enough bacteria to handle that many and more. This is the beauty of knowing how much ammonia a tank can handle. We know we don't have to add just a few fish at a time. We already have enough bacteria to handle a fair sized bio-load.

 

Thanks mattgirl! I'll get 5 guppies and 10 cardinal tetras if you think that's ok. Fingers crossed not another nitrite spike tomorrow and I'll be good.
Just one more question please, I still have the two cycled bio-balls that I got from my LFS 2 weeks ago to kick start my cycle. They take up a lot of room in my already pretty small filter. Would it be risky to take these out now or do I need to leave them in there for good to not disrupt the bacteria colony? I also have a half of a cup of Matrix inside my filter.Thanks!

 

Thanks mattgirl! I'll get 5 guppies and 10 cardinal tetras if you think that's ok. Fingers crossed not another nitrite spike tomorrow and I'll be good.
Just one more question please, I still have the two cycled bio-balls that I got from my LFS 2 weeks ago to kick start my cycle. They take up a lot of room in my already pretty small filter. Would it be risky to take these out now or do I need to leave them in there for good to not disrupt the bacteria colony? I also have a half of a cup of Matrix inside my filter.Thanks!

You should have grown enough to handle the bio-load of these fish. Of course still keep an eye on the numbers just in case there is a spike in ammonia once they are added.

If at all possible leave them in there for at least a week after adding fish and then just take one out one week and the other one the following week but only if you are not experiencing any spikes.

 

Thanks mattgirl. My joy was short lived, nitrites are back today The ammonia was still zero but I guess the nitrite eating bacteria hasn't caught up yet. I do hope that I am close though now that it has gone to zero once.
I'm thinking it's probably because I was adding ammonia every second day. Should I go ahead and add ammonia again today and see what the nitrites are doing tomorrow?
Or is it wrong to expect the nitrites to drop to zero in 24 hours? If I don't add any ammonia today and the nitrites are zero tomorrow (i.e after 48 hours after ammonia addition) can I consider my tank cycled and get fish? Thanks!

 

Thanks mattgirl. My joy was short lived, nitrites are back today The ammonia was still zero but I guess the nitrite eating bacteria hasn't caught up yet. I do hope that I am close though now that it has gone to zero once.
I'm thinking it's probably because I was adding ammonia every second day. Should I go ahead and add ammonia again today and see what the nitrites are doing tomorrow?
Or is it wrong to expect the nitrites to drop to zero in 24 hours? If I don't add any ammonia today and the nitrites are zero tomorrow (i.e after 48 hours after ammonia addition) can I consider my tank cycled and get fish? Thanks!

If it were me I would go back to adding ammonia daily. I would continue adding ammonia daily until both ammonia and nitrite go to and stay at zero 24 hours after adding ammonia. Only then can we know for absolutely sure the cycle is done. A fully cycled tank should not spike nitrites so I am not sure why this one did.

It is possible that it is safe to go ahead and add fish at this point but I don't want to say it is alright and then you get spikes again.

 

Thanks mattgirl. Yes I thought it was unusual to see Nitrites again today too. I hope I'm not at the start of another 2 week spike like the last one.

 

Thanks mattgirl. Yes I thought it was unusual to see Nitrites again today too. I hope I'm not at the start of another 2 week spike like the last one.

I do too. I have to think you are very very close to the end of this very long journey.

 

Finger crossed. Have you ever heard of multiple nitrite spikes while cycling?

 

Finger crossed. Have you ever heard of multiple nitrite spikes while cycling?

The only time is if someone lets the nitrite drop to zero before adding more ammonia while fishless cycling. I know lately that is the advice that is been given. I have to think it will work either way but I prefer to keep adding ammonia every 24 hours until both ammonia and nitrites drop to zero instead of experiencing multiple nitrite spikes. Normally once that happens nitrites don't spike again.

We should know in a few days if adding ammonia each time it drops to zero and both ammonia and nitrites zero out within 24 hours whether or not this cycle is done. Please refresh my memory. How long has it been since you've done a water change? If it has been more than 2 weeks go ahead and do one. It will refresh the minerals.

 

Thanks mattgirl. It's only been a week since my water change. While I didn't wait for nitrites to reach zero, I was adding ammonia every other day so maybe that is what caused the 2nd nitrite spike. Hopefully near the end now..

 

I retested after 24 hours, Ammonia is zero and Nitrites are at 0.25ppm, so not a huge spike thankfully, just not processing the full amount in 24 hours. I'll re-dose ammonia today and hopefully will be zero soon.

 

I retested after 24 hours, Ammonia is zero and Nitrites are at 0.25ppm, so not a huge spike thankfully, just not processing the full amount in 24 hours. I'll re-dose ammonia today and hopefully will be zero soon.

I can't imagine it taking very much longer. I really do hope so anyway.

 

Cycled Thanks again mattgirl for all your help!!!

 

Cycled Thanks again mattgirl for all your help!!!

Super fantastic news. I am so happy for you.