Prime & Safe Start

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dfisherman

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I don't suppose you could use prime to keep fish safe while using TSS? It does state on prime bottle it detoxifies Ammonia and allows bio filter to consume it.
 

UNTAMEDlore

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PRIME will keep fish safe and can be used as an emergencey treatment, and if you are using prime there is no need for safe start also its not a very good practice to cycle tanks with fish even with chems like safe start and prime the fish still suffers.. Also prime can safely be used up to 3 times the reccomended dose if really needed
 

Kunsthure

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Any water conditioner that detoxifies ammonia or chloramines canNOT be used with TSS and you need to wait at least 24 hours after using a water conditioner before using TSS.

-Lisa
 

jetajockey

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No don't use prime while using tss look up the QnA with tetra safestart for more info

Also the only given option by tetra reps is that if your ammonia levels get too high (2 or higher is what the rep told me) then do a water change AND redose with tss.
 
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Lucy

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jetajockey

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Shawnie

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I don't suppose you could use prime to keep fish safe while using TSS? It does state on prime bottle it detoxifies Ammonia and allows bio filter to consume it.
when did you add the tss ? whats the amount of ammonia/nitrites you are getting ?
 

H20girl

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I ended up adding TSS to my tank that is cycling with fish. I did this because there were going to be a few days when I wouldn't be able to do the daily water change.

I tested the water 2 days after adding the TSS. Ammonia was .25, Nitrite .25. The next day the test showed .5 -1.0 ammonia, which worried me. I added Prime to a large bucket of water and let it sit for 48 hrs. I tested the water on Thursday and the ammonia reading was 1.0, nitrite 0, nitrate 40. I decided to use the bucket water to do a 15% water change and added the rest of the TSS bottle (I bought the 75 gal size bottle for a 20 gal tank...initially put in about 2/3 since the tank had been going for 2 weeks). I figured that if it killed the TSS, I'd go back to daily water changes. I know the Q&A said to expect levels between 1 -1.5, but after seeing that test turn so green, I changed my mind and decided I wasn't ok with that.

An hour after the water change the ammonia looked between .25-.50.

Today (Saturday) the water appeared better: trace ammonia (very light green) and .25 nitrite. (I didn't get a chance to test nitrate).

Hopefully the water change helped??

Do you think it's "safe" to do what I did - water change 48 hrs after conditiong water w/ prime with the addition of more TSS?

What about without adding more TSS? It would be nice if there was a way to speed up the cycle (w/ TSS) while limiting/reducing the fishes' exposure to toxins (w/ small water changes). Curious what you think...

ETA: Ok, just reread the Q&A and this time noticed it said:
Do not add TSS for 24 hours after using
such a product, and do not add such a product for at least 7 days after
using TSS.
I still think that adding water treated 48 hrs previously with Prime might be different than adding Prime directly to the tank.

BTW, I'm aware that I'm terrible at following directions!
 
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Aquarist

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Good morning,

Once Tetra Safe Start (TSS) has been added, the tank should be left alone for 7 to 10 days. This means no water changes, no added chemicals. While you're cycling with TSS your readings are going to be all over the place and that's why they suggest that you not test the tank during this period.

Tetra Safe Start is designed to keep your fish safe during this period. There is no need to add Prime or Amquel + or anything designed to detox ammonia.

Personally I would start doing daily water changes because I feel the TSS process has e interrupted and at this point you won't know if your fish are safe or not. Continue with daily water changes until you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and under 20 nitrates. Add Prime or Amquel + to detox the ammonia for 24 hours until it's time for the next water change.

If you're going to use TSS then you have to follow the directions precisely or your fish are at risk for ammonia poisoning. Follow the directions in the link Lucy provided in post #5.

Best of luck!
Ken
 

jetajockey

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I ended up adding TSS to my tank that is cycling with fish. I did this because there were going to be a few days when I wouldn't be able to do the daily water change.

I tested the water 2 days after adding the TSS. Ammonia was .25, Nitrite .25. The next day the test showed .5 -1.0 ammonia, which worried me. I added Prime to a large bucket of water and let it sit for 48 hrs. I tested the water on Thursday and the ammonia reading was 1.0, nitrite 0, nitrate 40. I decided to use the bucket water to do a 15% water change and added the rest of the TSS bottle (I bought the 75 gal size bottle for a 20 gal tank...initially put in about 2/3 since the tank had been going for 2 weeks). I figured that if it killed the TSS, I'd go back to daily water changes. I know the Q&A said to expect levels between 1 -1.5, but after seeing that test turn so green, I changed my mind and decided I wasn't ok with that.

An hour after the water change the ammonia looked between .25-.50.

Today (Saturday) the water appeared better: trace ammonia (very light green) and .25 nitrite. (I didn't get a chance to test nitrate).

Hopefully the water change helped??

Do you think it's "safe" to do what I did - water change 48 hrs after conditiong water w/ prime with the addition of more TSS?

What about without adding more TSS? It would be nice if there was a way to speed up the cycle (w/ TSS) while limiting/reducing the fishes' exposure to toxins (w/ small water changes). Curious what you think...

ETA: Ok, just reread the Q&A and this time noticed it said:

I still think that adding water treated 48 hrs previously with Prime might be different than adding Prime directly to the tank.

BTW, I'm aware that I'm terrible at following directions!
I understand your concern. TSS is designed to keep fish safe, but do you really trust the lives of your fish with it? The test results are not inaccurate, and I believe their 'ideal' parameters include a fresh tank with one small fish, rather than a modest to full bioload.

As to whether a water change interrupted TSS, I can't say. I don't even understand why ammonia /chloramine detoxing products interfere with it to begin with.

Prime and Amquel+ don't "Lock" ammonia up, it is just converted to a less harmful form and they both stress the point that it is still available for consumption by the biofilter. Stresscoat doesn't lock ammonia up at all, it just breaks the chlorine/ammonia bond, and detoxifies the chlorine, if anything you'd think it'd make the ammonia MORE available for the biofilter.

Yet the tetra reps say that it is unsafe to use TSS in conjunction with any of these products (including their own water conditioner ._.)


With that being said, the tetra reps claim that if you do a water change to lower toxin levels then you should redose. The only thing I can figure is that the TSS is free floating for a very long period of time so when you do a water change you are losing a portion of it. Technically, using water conditioned with prime 48 hours after it has been dosed should be sufficient for the 'ammonia detoxing' phase to be over, but I wouldn't bet on it personally.
 
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H20girl

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I don't even understand why ammonia /chloramine detoxing products interfere with it to begin with.
I don't understand this either, it doesn't make sense based on the info they've provided!

I'll let you know how things turn out, but what happens with my tank probably won't indicate much, as the TSS was in my tank for 6 - 7 days before I did the water change and I added TSS as well.
 

sirdarksol

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The ammonia "binding" products turn the ammonia into another, less harmful form. It is likely that the TSS bacteria can't handle that form, unlike natural nitrifying bacteria.

All of these concerns are why I will only use/suggest TSS in an emergency. It is set up based on the idea that a few short spikes in ammonia aren't going to kill your fish. If I can get the same results without the spike, then I'm going to do so. However, if I have an aquarium crash and don't have the filter media to recover it (or if someone else has the same issue), I would likely use/suggest the product in those cases. Likewise, I would suggest it in cases where someone fully stocked an absolutely new aquarium, as that aquarium is going to see huge spikes of ammonia anyway.
 

dfisherman

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Wow look what I started this is great info. My history as to Shawnie Post#7. I've had several post about this tank 10gal with guppies. Started 4/9 has been going 44 days. Still no cycle getting 1.5 ammonia all the time. 5/19 added TSS 48 hours later Ammonia 4+ppm, 0 nitrite, 40+ nitrate. Call Tetra help line they said do 25% water change. Have done this going to test water later today.
 

sirdarksol

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Wow look what I started this is great info. My history as to Shawnie Post#7. I've had several post about this tank 10gal with guppies. Started 4/9 has been going 44 days. Still no cycle getting 1.5 ammonia all the time. 5/19 added TSS 48 hours later Ammonia 4+ppm, 0 nitrite, 40+ nitrate. Call Tetra help line they said do 25% water change. Have done this going to test water later today.
Though there was an ammonia spike, you're getting results.
Out of curiosity, did Tetra say to add more TSS after the water change?
 

jetajockey

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to the OP, consider rehoming some of the fish in the cycling tank, having a heavy bioload makes cycling very difficult, because there are so many extra factors at play. Minimize the amount of fish you have in there and you should be seeing results faster.
 
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