Possible new Fish-In Method?

Revan

I've been thinking about it, and I was wondering if you could do a fish-in cycle and just use Prime dechlorinator to keep your fish safe, thereby skipping water changes? I'd assume it's more efficient this way as there's more ammonia in the tank for the colonies to use. The only counter to this idea that I could see is that nitrifiers can't use ammonia that binds with prime. Any thoughts and reasons this wouldn't work? There has to be something wrong with this in my eyes.
 

StarGirl

Yes because Prime only protects up to 1ppm of ammonia and nitrites combined. So after that .....fish in pee soup.
 

Revan

Ah that makes sense. Would increasing the dose change anything though?
 

StarGirl

No I don't think so. Everyone on the planet would be overdosing Prime to cycle their tanks if it did, don't you think? Prime isn't magic in a bottle, its dechlor...;)
 

Azedenkae

No I don't think so. Everyone on the planet would be overdosing Prime to cycle their tanks if it did, don't you think? Prime isn't magic in a bottle, its dechlor...;)
So Prime does allege it works exactly in a 1x dosage to 1ppm ammonia/nitrite ratio, i.e. more Prime detoxifies more ammonia/nitrite at the same rate. However, the cap is 5x dosage, i.e. detoxifying 5ppm ammonia/nitrite. Allegedly because more than 5x dosage of prime can deplete the water of oxygen enough to kill fish.

Of course, that is if Prime detoxifies ammonia/nitrite at all. There is some evidence, but nothing concrete yet, that Prime does not actually detoxify ammonia/nitrite.
 

Dunk2

I'd assume it's more efficient this way as there's more ammonia in the tank for the colonies to use.
Even more efficient and less harmful to fish if the objective is to avoid water changes. . . A fishless cycle.
 

StarGirl

So Prime does allege it works exactly in a 1x dosage to 1ppm ammonia/nitrite ratio, i.e. more Prime detoxifies more ammonia/nitrite at the same rate. However, the cap is 5x dosage, i.e. detoxifying 5ppm ammonia/nitrite. Allegedly because more than 5x dosage of prime can deplete the water of oxygen enough to kill fish.

Of course, that is if Prime detoxifies ammonia/nitrite at all. There is some evidence, but nothing concrete yet, that Prime does not actually detoxify ammonia/nitrite.
Ok so if you are not changing water after 5ppm then what?
 

Dunk2

There is some evidence, but nothing concrete yet, that Prime does not actually detoxify ammonia/nitrite.
And despite your continued questioning of the effectiveness of Prime, you still suggest up to a 5x dosage. Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense.
 

Rye3434

And despite your continued questioning of the effectiveness of Prime, you still suggest up to a 5x dosage. Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense.
Don't mean to be rude but I don't think they were suggesting, more just talking about the question
 

Dunk2

Don't mean to be rude but I don't think they were suggesting, more just talking about the question
I don‘t think you’re being rude at all. But do a search for his suggestions to folks for fish-in cycles.
 

Swishy

Don’t mean to hijack your thread but I have a related question. I’m currently doing a fish-in cycle (I know, I know… impulse purchase) and I’m curious - if you can’t get filter media or whatever with beneficial bacteria, where does it come from? This is a serious question.
 

StarGirl

Don’t mean to hijack your thread but I have a related question. I’m currently doing a fish-in cycle (I know, I know… impulse purchase) and I’m curious - if you can’t get filter media or whatever with beneficial bacteria, where does it come from? This is a serious question.
The bacteria is everywhere so it will eventually seed your tank. It just may take a little longer than with some kind of seed.
 

Fisch

Another question to the OP, continuing the thought process, when the fish-in cycle is complete, and you are kind of adverse to waterchanges, how would you plan to keep the Nitrates in check?
 

Azedenkae

Ok so if you are not changing water after 5ppm then what?
Oh no, certainly absolutely I’d recommend changing water after 5ppm. Before hitting 5ppm in fact is where I’d already suggest doing water changes. Just wanted to mention that allegedly Prime does detoxify ammonia/nitrite at a rate of 1x dosage per 1ppm ammonia/nitrite is all.
 

MacZ

The original question of the OP has been asked more times than can be counted. As the answer is "NO, you can't just counter everything with a water conditioner, do some *bleep*ing waterchanges.", here some interesting side info.

Sodiumthiosulfate (the active agent in dechlorinators) is used as an antidote against cyanide and carbon monoxide poisoning. As those attack the same mechanism in the metabolism of oxygen as nitrite, a nitrite poisoning might be countered with it. As this is just a hypothesis when it comes to fish, I doubt this works. Also not very helpful as ammonia is present first.

Ammonia itself is only poisonous in sufficiently alkaline conditions. A reason why I detest the advise to raise pH for/during cycling. A tank will eventually cycle in any pH between 4 and 9. I may take some longer but that's it. Read a book (preferrably about aquariums) while waiting.

At least for our European users very important these days: Fish-less cycling saves water. Which right now is something everybody here should be doing, at least to a degree.

So it boils down to: Be patient and do fish-less cycling.
What's so hard about that? Everybody afraid to drop dead tomorrow?
 

jdhef

If you want to do a fish-in cycle without having to perform water changes, there is a simple solution. Cycle the tank using Tetra SafeStart+
 

Revan

Even more efficient and less harmful to fish if the objective is to avoid water changes. . . A fishless cycle.
Yeah, I would always to a fishless cycle if I could, its just that I have snails in the tank, so I don't want to dose ammonia and risk them as well. Unless maybe they could handle it? I doubt it though. Anyway, thanks for all the answers, I knew something had to be off with that line of thought just didn't know what.
Another question to the OP, continuing the thought process, when the fish-in cycle is complete, and you are kind of adverse to waterchanges, how would you plan to keep the Nitrates in check?
Nah I would still do water changes, I just wanted to see if for the cycling process it could work like this. I do water changes like once a week, got nothing against them.
 

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