Possible Ich, Not Seeing White Spot...

Discussion in 'Freshwater Beginners' started by Corycat, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Corycat

    CorycatValued MemberMember

    Hey everyone, I'm in need of some advice. I am in the process of starting a new quarantine tank but I received 3 clown loaches. Because they were in a bucket I just decided to put them in my 2 tanks. This is proving to be a bad idea. I have now been informed they are notorious for ich. I saw the one in my 55 gallon itching but I don't see any white spot. I have 7 cories and I saw a couple of them flash. I have 4 dojo loaches in the tank as well. I have API General Cure so I was thinking of treating with that first just in case it isn't ich because of not seeing white spot. I just lost a black molly sunday but when I examined him I didn't see any white spot. He was also flashing before his death. My water parameters are exceptional no ammonia no nitrite and little nitrate. I test with api freshwater liquid kit and tetra 6 in one strip. PH is between 7.4 and 7.6. I also have Mardel Quickcure but I'm hesitant to use that because I have plants, an aggressive amano shrimp that doesn't work in my 10 gallon tank as well as the loaches. Should I try the General cure first and if the problems persists then try the ich medication? I'm trying to preserve as much of my community as possible. Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Jonathan1259

    Jonathan1259New MemberMember

    Hey man how's it going ? Having your fish itch or looking like their being irritated ,rubbing against ornaments ,rocks ,plants , gravel are signs of ick . The ick has multiple life stages , and when they become white they are harder to remove but when they can't bee seen is when you need to strike by doing a heavy water change , and adding required medicine for such case . Not seeing white spots doesn't mean their not there. Dw it's easy to take care off .drop a piece of garlic inside the tank .
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Corycat

    CorycatValued MemberMember

    Hey Jonathan, thanks for the reply. I got out a flash light and sure enough under closer inspection the largest clown loach has some white spots..I did a decent size water change in the 55 and a hefty one in the 10 gallon. I dosed it a little on the lighter side because of all the loaches. I read I could dose lighter but for a couple of extra days. I started a new tank for the shrimp and snails so I could start dosing. I appreciate the advice and I'm hoping this will work I just gotta see what happens. Unfortunately it was too late for one clown loach so I am down to two. I'm hoping they both make it so they can be a pair. What's up with the garlic? Never heard that before lol
     
  4. OnTheFly

    OnTheFlyWell Known MemberMember

    Two options I am aware of. Heat method is raise temp to about 86 to stop ich reproduction, or abut 90 to kill ich. Many species can withstand those temps. Personally I prefer any med containing malachite green and raised temps above 80 to speed up the ich lifecycle. It will start knocking the spots off within hours. Daily dosing is required with small WCs. Ich is not particarly deadly if caught soon enough, but it spreads like the plague A lot of products available are snake oil IMO. MG is real medicine. It will stain the silicone seams and plastic air hoses blue in your tank for a good while. Live plants won't like it either.
     
  5. NavigatorBlack

    NavigatorBlackFishlore VIPMember

    Clown loaches and Ich.
    You can drop garlic in and have it rot while the Ich thrives.
    You can try the heat method, going above 85f for a few weeks. It will be hard on the fish and kind of inefficient, but clown loaches are very medication sensitive.
    Malachite green at a half dose is what I would do, as Clowns are scaleless fish with med sensitivity.
    I hope you realize that 3 clown loaches in a 55 are going to teach you a lot about disease management over the next few years - they are eventual large fish that will need a tank twice that size, or this will be the first of many battles. Because they have no scales, they have poor defenses against skin parasites like Ich.
     
  6. OnTheFly

    OnTheFlyWell Known MemberMember

    Very good point on med sensitivity. Always good to research exact species for dosage or warnings.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Corycat

    CorycatValued MemberMember

    I am slowly trying to raise the temperature and I've treated half dose of mardel quickcure. I'm hoping this does the trick. I'm still curious about what the rotting garlic does? Will this produce ammonia?

    Navigator, I am seeing the obstacles I have ahead of me. Unfortunately I'm down to 2. I wish the 3rd would have survived, he was only a baby, as I would have made the accommodations necessary for them to have a happy life. I'm hoping I still have the chance for the remaining 2. If not, I will most likely steer clear of these in the future unless I devote a tank soley to them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
  8. NavigatorBlack

    NavigatorBlackFishlore VIPMember

    I was being sarcastic about garlic. Sorry. It in no way is a proven treatment, and all it will do is rot.
    I don't see anything in garlic that would harm a freeswimming parasite. A few (20...) to me years ago, a Discus breeder started selling garlic as an anti worm remedy. In an enclosed gut, it could possibly work, but praziquantel does work. The anti-pharmaceutical approach is always casting around for "natural" remedies, and garlic is popular at the moment. A clove of garlic in an aquarium is going to be so diluted that even if there were proof it worked, there would not be enough of it. There was some inconclusive research about garlic and gutworms, but I have never seen anything on Ich, a creature of the open water column.
    Since the health of living creatures is at stake, I would not want to steer people towards untested remedies when easy to use, safe medications exist, and have been proven by decades of use.

    I once bought clown loaches. I am sorry to say they did not live their 35 year lifespan. Back then, I trusted a store that told me they would stay small and be ideal. Trusted? Maybe because they told me what I wanted to hear about these beautiful fish, I chose to believe them against my usual skepticism. Even then, I usually double checked. They were on sale, and were so beautiful...
    Either way, they did grow well. They tripled their size, and died on the third bout of Ich. If I had had a 6 foot, 180 gallon tank, they might have made it.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Corycat

    CorycatValued MemberMember

    The Meridel Quick Cure has Formalin and Malacite green. I have some api general cure, I was going to use that because of the scratching and it seemed gentler for the clown, dojo loaches amd cories. The tetra as well. That was before I saw the white spots. But I thought it would be pointless if it's ich.