Possible Goldfish Fin Rot?

My fiance and I have a fairly new tank and have had a goldfish in it for just under a week. It has done very well so far despite the issues we've had (see below if you want the full story), but this morning I noticed a tear in his tail fin. It doesn't look like the classic fin rot, but his tail is kind of white where the tail is torn, and there is a little white on the matching fin on the other side (he's a fantail). He's also moving a little more slowly today and hanging out by the pipe for the filter. I can't get a pic right now since I'm at work, but I will take a pic when I get home and share it. So does this sound like possible fin rot? Or something else entirely?

I'm planning on doing a partial water change tonight to see if that helps him perk up a bit before jumping to any medications. I also read to add aquarium salt in small quantities with the water change if a fish is looking sick, so I plan to add that in the morning if the water change alone hasn't helped perk him up any.


So here's the long version of the story...

We got a 2 gallon tank after being told by the pet store that it would be good for a glofish tetra. Got it set up, let it cycle for 48 hours as their instructions said, then got a neon and it died overnight. Took it back and talked to the other pet store and they said a 2 gallon was too small and we needed a longer cycle.

So we took back the 2 gallon, got a 10 gallon and started cycling. I used water conditioner and bacteria starter and strip tests were looking good after about a week, so we took the water to the store to get tested. Their tests were good as well, so we got 4 glofish tetras and they were dead within 4 hours. Took them back and got 4 more, followed the acclimation instructions on the glofish website (instead of the pet store instructions), and they died after about 5 hours. I did a bunch of research and learned about drip acclimation, so I took back the 4 and brought 1 home and attempted a slower acclimation process (though not drip). I put him in a brand new rinsed out fish bowl and added a little tank water about every 30 minutes. I increased the time between water additions based on how he was acting. This one died in about 7 hours and never actually made it to the tank. We tested the water at home and at the store after each round of deaths too, so we know there wasn't an ammonia spike or something.

By this point, I'm 99% sure the issue is shock due to slightly different water parameters, so I figure the only way we'll get the tetras into the tank is to do an extremely slow drip acclimation (and my fiance is ready to totally give up at this point). So we talk to the "fish specialist" at the pet store and she's surprised too (and seems to know nothing about how to avoid shock), and suggests something tougher like a goldfish. So we brought home the most active of the ones in the tank (a fantail), and he's been doing well so far.

Until today...and the rest of the story is at the beginning of the post.

 

Welcome to fishlore!!!

I think your issue is an uncycled tank. You should read up on the nitrogen cycle because none of the methods you used will cycle a tank.

But even an uncycled tank shouldn't kill a fish in a matter of hours. Did you use dechlorinator?

I suggest you have your water tested with a liquid test kit. Those strips are not accurate. I'm willing to bet you have toxic ammonia and/or nitrites based on your story. Probably just ammonia at this point since you haven't had the goldfish a full week yet.

Right now you should do daily water changes. That is the best medicine for torn fins. And it is necessary anyway since your tank will now go through a fish-in cycle.

 

I think your issue is an uncycled tank. You should read up on the nitrogen cycle because none of the methods you used will cycle a tank.

But even an uncycled tank shouldn't kill a fish in a matter of hours. Did you use dechlorinator?

I suggest you have your water tested with a liquid test kit. Those strips are not accurate. I'm willing to bet you have toxic ammonia and/or nitrites based on your story.

Right now you should do daily water changes. That is the best medicine for torn fins. And it is necessary anyway since your tank will now go through a fish-in cycle.

Yeah, I read up on it after I was given bad advice, so I know how to do better going forward. I used bacteria starter which is supposed to help with the nitrogen cycle (after dealing with the very first dead fish...before any others were introduced and subsequently died), and watched the water get cloudy for a few days then turn clear. I didn't test while the water was cloudy, but all tests after showed water parameters were safe.

Since the goldfish is doing fairly well, I'm still pretty sure the tetras died from shock. Googling says it is a common occurrence with them, so they just seem to be weak and fairly fragile when it comes to environment changes. As I mentioned in the original post, I used the water conditioner (that's what the brand called it and it dechlorinates), so chlorine shouldn't have been an issue. If it was, I imagine the goldfish would have died as fast as the tetras.

I do have a liquid test kit that should be showing up tomorrow and I plan to test everything with it as soon as I get home from work. I (now) know that the strips aren't accurate, but they have always shown 0 for ammonia and nitrites, so I would think even if the levels aren't actually 0, they shouldn't be off by much. At least not into deadly levels.

Like I said, I do plan to do a water change tonight and will keep up on them daily until the fins hopefully heal. I'm just concerned that the issue may be the beginnings of fin rot rather than stress.

 

Yeah, I read up on it after I was given bad advice, so I know how to do better going forward. I used bacteria starter which is supposed to help with the nitrogen cycle (after dealing with the very first dead fish...before any others were introduced and subsequently died), and watched the water get cloudy for a few days then turn clear. I didn't test while the water was cloudy, but all tests after showed water parameters were safe.

Since the goldfish is doing fairly well, I'm still pretty sure the tetras died from shock. Googling says it is a common occurrence with them, so they just seem to be weak and fairly fragile when it comes to environment changes. As I mentioned in the original post, I used the water conditioner (that's what the brand called it and it dechlorinates), so chlorine shouldn't have been an issue. If it was, I imagine the goldfish would have died as fast as the tetras.

I do have a liquid test kit that should be showing up tomorrow and I plan to test everything with it as soon as I get home from work. I (now) know that the strips aren't accurate, but they have always shown 0 for ammonia and nitrites, so I would think even if the levels aren't actually 0, they shouldn't be off by much. At least not into deadly levels.

Like I said, I do plan to do a water change tonight and will keep up on them daily until the fins hopefully heal. I'm just concerned that the issue may be the beginnings of fin rot rather than stress.

The bacteria supplements do nothing if there are no fish in the tank. You said you added the bacteria and waited days before adding fish. The bacteria feeds off of ammonia produced by the fish. The bottled bacteria starved to death by the time you added the fish. Your water parameters were safe because there was nothing in your tank to produce ammonia to make it unsafe. It was essentially a brand new un-cycled tank. And now that your goldfish has been in there producing ammonia for almost a week, he is now struggling a little. In other words, I don't think you need to be thinking about meds or salt. Your goal is to keep the tank water as safe as possible and you are basically doing an fish-in cycle. We will know more when you test the water with your API kit. Now is the time to add the bacteria if you want to go that route, because it can feed off the ammonia the goldfish produces.
If you don't go the bottled bacteria route again, if I were you, I would do small daily water changes (like 25%) with Seachem Prime as your dechlorinator (because it detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours) until the tank is fully cycled.

edit: also, I have cured fin rot a couple times doing nothing but daily water changes. So if it is the beginning of fin rot, that should improve as well.

 

The bacteria supplements do nothing if there are no fish in the tank. You said you added the bacteria and waited days before adding fish. The bacteria feeds off of ammonia produced by the fish. The bottled bacteria starved to death by the time you added the fish. Your water parameters were safe because there was nothing in your tank to produce ammonia to make it unsafe. It was essentially a brand new un-cycled tank. And now that your goldfish has been in there producing ammonia for almost a week, he is now struggling a little. In other words, I don't think you need to be thinking about meds or salt. Your goal is to keep the tank water as safe as possible and you are basically doing an fish-in cycle. We will know more when you test the water with your API kit. Now is the time to add the bacteria if you want to go that route, because it can feed off the ammonia the goldfish produces.
If you don't go the bottled bacteria route again, if I were you, I would do small daily water changes (like 25%) with Seachem Prime as your dechlorinator (because it detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours) until the tank is fully cycled.

edit: also, I have cured fin rot a couple times doing nothing but daily water changes. So if it is the beginning of fin rot, that should improve as well.

Gotcha. I guess I misread something or mixed things up. I've read a LOT in the past couple weeks! That's really great information though. Is it safe to do both the bacteria starter and the water changes? Or should I just do one or the other? I'm still planning on the water change tonight either way to help take some stress off the little guy, but I want to make sure I continue things the best way possible.

That's great to know about the fin rot as well. Thanks for the advice!

 

Gotcha. I guess I misread something or mixed things up. I've read a LOT in the past couple weeks! That's really great information though. Is it safe to do both the bacteria starter and the water changes? Or should I just do one or the other? I'm still planning on the water change tonight either way to help take some stress off the little guy, but I want to make sure I continue things the best way possible.

That's great to know about the fin rot as well. Thanks for the advice!

It depends on which bacteria supplement you choose. Some you can do water changes, some you cant. Some you can use prime, some you cant. So whatever you do decide, I suggest you come on here and ask how to do it properly. There are many people here who can help you with that!

I have only used Seachem Stability because it can be used with seachem prime and with daily water changes.

 

It depends on which bacteria supplement you choose. Some you can do water changes, some you cant. Some you can use prime, some you cant. So whatever you do decide, I suggest you come on here and ask how to do it properly. There are many people here who can help you with that!

I have only used Seachem Stability because it can be used with seachem prime and with daily water changes.

This is what I already have at home. According to the website description, it looks like it can be safely used during water changes. Is there any reason to think what it says isn't right?

 

I have never used that kind. But if the directions say you can that I assume its fine. Sometimes directions don't always consider everything, so I like to get other's opinions too.

 

What is the temperature in your tank? Do you have a heater?

 

What is the temperature in your tank? Do you have a heater?

It's a pretty steady 76. We've got a heater, but I don't think it's needing to turn on much. I never see the light on, at least.

And here's the fishy and his torn fin. He's being much more active tonight than he was this morning, and I did the partial water change right after taking the pic.

The little guy is as active as ever this morning! Now if the mail would just get here so I can test the water properly!

Do you think the torn fin looks like there might be the start of fin rot?

 

Doesn't look like finrot to me but wait for other's opinions on that.

Take the heater out. 76f is way too warm for goldfish.

You've been given good advice so far. How much water did you change?

 

Doesn't look like finrot to me but wait for other's opinions on that.

Take the heater out. 76f is way too warm for goldfish.

You've been given good advice so far. How much water did you change?

I have the heater turned down to 72 now, but the water was a steady 76/77 when we first put the tank together and I didn't know how to adjust the heater (and it had been turned all the way down). We keep our house 75 during the day, so I imagine the temperature won't go down until winter.

I changed around 10% of the water last night. I was planning on doing more, but I was limited on time to get the new water to a steady temp because the tank is in my daughter's bedroom and I can't do anything with it after she goes to bed. I'm planning on doing another 20% tonight though.

 

It just looks like a tear right now. It will heal up fine. If the water quality is really bad, then a rip or tear like that could turn into fin rot. So just keep doing your best to keep the water quality in check. It'll heal faster and it'll prevent possible rot. Keep doing daily water changes and it will heal real fast.

 

It just looks like a tear right now. It will heal up fine. If the water quality is really bad, then a rip or tear like that could turn into fin rot. So just keep doing your best to keep the water quality in check. It'll heal faster and it'll prevent possible rot. Keep doing daily water changes and it will heal real fast.

Thanks! What do you think it could have torn on? I'm thinking it might have been on the plants since they're plastic, but my fiance thinks his tail might have gotten sucked into the filter because he was hanging out by it a lot for a couple days.

 

Thanks! What do you think it could have torn on? I'm thinking it might have been on the plants since they're plastic, but my fiance thinks his tail might have gotten sucked into the filter because he was hanging out by it a lot for a couple days.

Both are possibilities. Probably one of the two.

 

So just thought I should update...tank is indeed going through the nitrogen cycle now. I don't remember the exact number, but there is definitely ammonia but no nitrites, so things are still in the first stage. I added some bacteria starter last night to hopefully speed things up, and will be continuing with the daily water changes.

How often should I test the levels since I know it's currently cycling? Should I test daily just to make sure nothing is going crazy high, or should I just test every few days since I'm doing daily water changes?

 

Testing daily could drive you bonkers to be honest!!
Since you are already doing daily water changes, I would suggest you test it every couple days.

 

Poor fishy is getting ammonia burns

I did a 40% water change yesterday, and the burns seemed to be looking better almost immediately. I plan to do another 40-50% change tonight to bring things down some more so he can hopefully heal. He hasn't been eating much (well, eating and spitting it back out), but he was eating a lot yesterday after the water change.

Is there anything else I can do to help speed up the cycling process?

And what is the recommended max amount of ammonia for fish-in cycling? I found a site that said around 1.2 ppm for pH of 7.5, but I couldn't find any other sites that gave a level. I want to make sure I do a bigger water change if it gets too high.

 

And what is the recommended max amount of ammonia for fish-in cycling? I found a site that said around 1.2 ppm for of 7.5, but I couldn't find any other sites that gave a level. I want to make sure I do a bigger water change if it gets too high

Different people will say different things, you want it as low as possible. I'd say try to keep it below 0.5ppm. When you do water changes try to get it as close to 0 as possible.

 

Different people will say different things, you want it as low as possible. I'd say try to keep it below 0.5ppm. When you do water changes try to get it as close to 0 as possible.

Yeah, at this point the only way it would get to 0 would be a 100% change. When I checked last night, it was somewhere between .75 and 1 after the water change and sitting for a few hours. Hopefully a big water change tonight will take it below .5.

 

Yeah, at this point the only way it would get to 0 would be a 100% change. When I checked last night, it was somewhere between .75 and 1 after the water change and sitting for a few hours. Hopefully a big water change tonight will take it below .5.

Theoretically if you're tank has 1ppm ammonia and the tap water has 0ppm ammonia then a 50% water change should lower it to 0.5ppm. I'd recommend a 75% water change if possible.

 

After the water change last night, there wasn't a noticeable difference in the amount of ammonia in the tank. I'm going to try for 75% tonight to see if that helps. Thanks for the suggestion!

The ammonia burns do seem to be healing a bit at least. His tail seems to have less black on it each day, so I'm taking that as a good sign, if only a small one. Still not reading any nitrites, so I don't know if my bacteria starter is helping or not.

 

Was able to do a 60% water change last night and little fishy's burns are almost completely gone today! Yay!! I didn't test the water last night, but I'll be doing another 30-40% water change tonight and testing after. I'm just super happy to see the fishy is healing!

 

Did a 40% water change tonight and tested the water before and after. It's very little, but I have nitrites!!!! If I hadn't done the before and after comparison, I never would've know though. Comparing each to the color chart individually, both appear to be at 0, but side by side the before had the slightest tint of purple compared to the after. So yay!!!

Fishy's burns are all gone this morning!! Hopefully that means the tear in his tail will be able to do some healing now.

 

Now I'm thoroughly confused...I got TSS and dosed the tank tonight. I tested the water before and about an hour later.

Ammonia was between .75 and 1 rpm
Nitrite was .25 before and 0 after
Nitrate was between 0 and 5 before and 0 after

I've got pics of the nitrite and nitrate comparison, though the nitrate difference doesn't show very well in the photo.

Then I decided to test the water with strips because I still have some, and it shows a little nitrite and no nitrate before but no nitrite and a little nitrate after.

So the strips and master test kit are showing different things. The master kit results are very confusing since I wouldn't expect the nitrates to totally disappear, but the strips are more accurate to what I'd expect after adding the TSS even though they're supposed to be less accurate.

I used the same water samples for all of them, so nothing could have gotten mixed up. Any ideas? I know testing tomorrow will show more informative results, but this has me really confused.

 

Small update in case anyone was following...got the tank cycled, added some ghost shrimp and a snail, and now the little goldie's tail is almost completely grown back! Yay!