POPEYE: Wont go away after rounds of antibiotic (my fault he got sick at all)

Should I put hi min his new tank ( as long as its cycled)

  • Yes, cycled with all that good bacteria and good water parameters will help him heal

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • No, Just let him stay in the 2 gallon tank with water changes

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Other (Please explain in comments)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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gregoranddexter1816

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Originally my fish (Greg) has swim bladder issues. I fasted him 3 days t a time gave him BOTh pea and daphnia (as a trial and error since ive heard both work) for about 2 weeks. He developed a big popeye in that time so I dosed aquarium salt and stress coat and almond leaf tannins. That didn't work. But he did develop fin rot in that time as well. So Although the swim bladder issue is fixed, after 1 full round of Furan-2, on day 2 of Jungle Fungus Clear, and just also dosing with betta fix/melafix and stress coat as conditioner as well as a couple of drops of betta conditioner which contains aloe to help him heal. Today (hopefully my new tank will clear the ammonia) I plan to put him in his new 5-gallon tank.

Current tank (2 gallons, not cycled)
- water changes every other day since February 25th except for the 5 days of Furan-2 in which I followed the medication instruction


New Tank (Cycled by tonight hopefully)
- fully cycled
- bigger and better environment


My thought is that since my current tank is not cycled at all, but his new one is about to be. I should transfer him when its fully cycled (tonight or within the next couple days). I know how bad it is I didnt cycled the first one. And IU know exactly why hes sick! I wasn't aware of all the good bacteria so less than a week before he got sick I actually changes ALL decor, did a 100% water change, cleaned his WHOLE filter, changed the filter media AND changed gravel all on the same day. So its completely my fault.

SIDE NOTE! I'm not 100% sure if he still has popeye! His eyes (the clear parts) are a little farther out than I remember from before he got sick. But the eye part (colored part and pupil) are in his head. He has a white line (I'm assuming its his eyelid) when he looks down. LET ME KNOW if pictures would help because I'm home currently and can. upload if it would help,.
 

david1978

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By the sounds of it neither tank is cycled. I would move him to the bigger tank since even uncyled the water quality will be easier to control. The aloe in the water to me is scam too. Studies with stress coat found it doses nothing unless you poured it directly onto the fish. Its just too diluted in the tank to do anything.
 
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gregoranddexter1816

gregoranddexter1816

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david1978 said:
By the sounds of neither tank is cycled. I would move him to the bigger tank since even uncyled the water quality will be easier to control. The aloe in the water to me is scam too. Studies with stress coat found it doses nothing unless you poured it directly onto the fish. Its just too diluted in the tank to do anything.
My 5 gallon tank is cycled. I am on my last day as long at it brings my ammonia to 0 by 6 pm tonight and my nitrite and nitrate levels are correct.

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here
 

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angelcraze

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All those symptoms are due to aeromonas bacteria. It's an anaerobic bacteria that flourishes in substate mulm and filter guck, so it's good to keep these free from detritus, but not stripping the good nitrifying bacteria. So by siphoning, and rinsing filter media in dechlorinated water. Keeping the cycle is essential to fight off aeromonas bacteria.

I have the same issue atm, and I found some helpful info. I'm not sure I can explain it and links don't seem to be allowed to the page I trust. But one thing that perked my interest was redox. What is your GH and KH? depleted calcium and magnesium encourage the bacteria. You may temporarily raise these while clearing the bacteria.

Also at this point, sounds like the bacteria is in the gut, so you need internal treatment. Metronidazole and Neomycin in a fish food soak is the recommended choice of treatment since it targets the intestine with internal treatment.

Btw, for Maracyn, if you choose this method, you want Maracyn two because Maracyn One contains Erythromycin Sulfate which is not effective against aeromonas. (Although Erythromycin Phosphate is actually more effective found in APP Myacin).
 
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gregoranddexter1816

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angelcraze said:
All those symptoms are due to aeromonas bacteria. It's an anaerobic bacteria that flourishes in substate mulm and filter guck, so it's good to keep these free from detritus, but not stripping the good nitrifying bacteria. So by siphoning, and rinsing filter media in dechlorinated water. Keeping the cycle is essential to fight off aeromonas bacteria.

I have the same issue atm, and I found some helpful info. I'm not sure I can explain it and links don't seem to be allowed to the page I thrust. But one thing that perked my interest was redox. What is your GH and KH? depleted calcium and magnesium encourage the bacteria. You may temporarily raise these while clearing the bacteria.

Also at this point, sounds like the bacteria is in the gut, so you need internal treatment. Metronidazole and Neomycin in a fish food soak is the recommended choice of treatment since it targets the intestine with internal treatment.

Btw, for Maracyn, if you choose this method, you want Maracyn two because Maracyn One contains Erythromycin Sulfate which is not effective against aeromonas. (Although Erythromycin Phosphate is actually more effective found in APP Myacin).
I was thinking of giving him time in the new tank since I'm not 100% sure the popeye is from bacteria since I took away all the good bacteria I know his water quality sucks right now. I feel like hes getting stressed by all my medication this past month! Ive heard KanoPlex and the stuff from SeaChem is good and they have a food additive medication. Have you ever looked into it or. used it?
 

angelcraze

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You can use kanaplex and Metronidazole in the feed. I don't have access to antibiotics, but metro does not last long in water and is more effective in a food soak for intestinal issues.

But repeated treatment with metro can cause organ damage so keep that in mind as well. Same applies to kanaplex, not recommended for extended treatment.

I'm just trying to ID the bacteria for you bc different bacteria requires different treatment.

Personally I have to treat with Methelyne Blue, aquarium salt and epsom salts. Also boosting my redox.
 
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gregoranddexter1816

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angelcraze said:
You can use kanaplex and Metronidazole in the feed. I don't have access to antibiotics, but metro does not last long in water and is more effective in a food soak for intestinal issues.

But repeated treatment with metro can cause organ damage so keep that in mind as well. Same applies to kanaplex, not recommended for extended treatment.

I'm just trying to ID the bacteria for you bc different bacteria requires different treatment.
yeah furan-2 I think treats gram-positive and my Jungle Fungus Clear treats Gram-Negative
 

angelcraze

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The thing is, you want a synergistic effect between the gram positive and gram negative bacteria and both to be anaerobic or broad spectrum in activity. The gram positive (and aerobic) won't treat aeromonas. It will only compliment the gram negative. Just research that they do compliment eachother because i'm not familiar with Fungus Clear atm.
 
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gregoranddexter1816

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angelcraze said:
The thing is, you want a synergistic effect between the gram positive and gram negative bacteria. The gram positive won't treat aeromonas. It will only compliment the grain negative. Just research that they do compliment eachother because i'm not familiar with Fungus Clear atm.
Ok. So what specific product would you suggest? I have a Petsmart and Petco near to me

angelcraze said:
The thing is, you want a synergistic effect between the gram positive and gram negative bacteria. The gram positive won't treat aeromonas. It will only compliment the gram negative. Just research that they do compliment eachother because i'm not familiar with Fungus Clear atm.
I can also order off of Amazon. I think that Amazon has stopped all non-essential shipments because of COVID-19 so I may just have to transfer him to my new tank until I'm able to treat him
 

angelcraze

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So i'm not a med pro and practice more natural approach to treatment bc I have to, but the link recommended Neomycin and Metronidazole in the feed. You haven't used kanaplex or metro yet right? You could use Neoplex and Kanaplex or Metroplex in the food instead. Seachem makes a product called Focus that binds the med in the food.

Note: Neoplex is anaerobic, but mostly gram positive, so it's recommended for a synergistic effect with Kana or Metro which are broad spectrum or gram negative and treat anaerobic infections.

Also I feel you, good water conditions and parameters are essential for his recovery. That's another reason why I would feed the meds over dosing the water and continue water changes and endeavor to cycle the tank.

Actually I just read Doxycycline is the best, most wide spectrum product from the Tetracycline family and proven effective against aeromonas. So if there are no red streaks or open sores, you could use it instead of Neoplex/kana or metro. Not sure of its the same thing in Fungus Clear.

Sorry for the delay, I was reviewing your thread and something came up.
 
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gregoranddexter1816

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Let me know if you have questions

angelcraze said:
So i'm not a med pro and practice more natural approach to treatment bc I have to, but the link recommended Neomycin and Metronidazole in the feed. You haven't used kanaplex or metro yet right? You could use Neoplex and Kanaplex or Metroplex in the food instead. Seachem makes a product called Focus that binds the med in the food.

Note: Neoplex is anaerobic, but mostly gram positive, so it's recommended for a synergistic effect with Kana or Metro which are broad spectrum or gram negative and treat anaerobic infections.

Also I feel you, good water conditions and parameters are essential for his recovery. That's another reason why I would feed the meds over dosing the water and continue water changes and endeavor to cycle the tank.

Actually I just read Doxycycline is the best, most wide spectrum product from the Tetracycline family and proven effective against aeromonas. So if there are no red streaks or open sores, you could use it instead of Neoplex/kana or metro. Not sure of its the same thing in Fungus Clear.

Sorry for the delay, I was reviewing your thread and something came up.
I am looking up medication in food and came across this thing called "Hikari® Aquarium Solutions® Betta Revive? Health Aid for Fish 0.08 Oz". ill look into it but let me know if you think it would be beneficial? I think its premedicated food but I have no idea about the chemicals you're referring to so ill let you look it over

gregoranddexter1816 said:
I am looking up medication in food and came across this thing called "Hikari® Aquarium Solutions® Betta Revive? Health Aid for Fish 0.08 Oz". ill look into it but let me know if you think it would be beneficial? I think its premedicated food but I have no idea about the chemicals you're referring to so ill let you look it over
Just kidding its the blue dye!

angelcraze said:
So i'm not a med pro and practice more natural approach to treatment bc I have to, but the link recommended Neomycin and Metronidazole in the feed. You haven't used kanaplex or metro yet right? You could use Neoplex and Kanaplex or Metroplex in the food instead. Seachem makes a product called Focus that binds the med in the food.

Note: Neoplex is anaerobic, but mostly gram positive, so it's recommended for a synergistic effect with Kana or Metro which are broad spectrum or gram negative and treat anaerobic infections.

Also I feel you, good water conditions and parameters are essential for his recovery. That's another reason why I would feed the meds over dosing the water and continue water changes and endeavor to cycle the tank.

Actually I just read Doxycycline is the best, most wide spectrum product from the Tetracycline family and proven effective against aeromonas. So if there are no red streaks or open sores, you could use it instead of Neoplex/kana or metro. Not sure of its the same thing in Fungus Clear.

Sorry for the delay, I was reviewing your thread and something came up.
Look at this link from Amazon. Would this be what you are reffering to? Amazon.com : Seachem Aquarium Water Treatment Set - MetroPlex & Focus (5g Each) by Seachem : Pet Supplies
 

angelcraze

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gregoranddexter1816 said:
Look at this link from Amazon. Would this be what you are reffering to? Amazon.com : Seachem Aquarium Water Treatment Set - MetroPlex & Focus (5g Each) by Seachem : Pet Supplies
Well according to the link, it can be used in a food soak with Neoplex.

Kanaplex is an alternative to Metroplex.

I looked up your Betta Revive link, it contains neomycin, methylene blue, some protective polymers and redox ingredients, but I can't really say because I don't know. I do know that small doses are often less effective than actual treatment meds used specifically and may even lead to resistance, so I'm only relaying info from sources I trust. So I think I would stick to using each med independently and adding electrolytes and polymers myself. You already have the IALs.
 
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gregoranddexter1816

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angelcraze said:
Well according to the link, it can be used in a food soak with Neoplex.
would that be OK? I know you suggest something in his food for his internal things
 

angelcraze

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gregoranddexter1816 said:
would that be OK? I know you suggest something in his food for his internal things
Well according to the link, it works better when combined with Neomycin. So maybe the Betta Revive and Metro in the food? Again, i'm sorry I keep stressing this, i'm only relaying info that I trust. I am not recommending anything. But it is what I would do after researching like crazy if I had access to fish meds.

I just worry about meds in the water when you are trying to cycle. So I'd rather just add Neoplex to the food with Metro and bind with Focus.

FYI I read in someone else's link that you can bind meds with fish oil. Might be something to look into for cheaper or maybe more available.
 
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gregoranddexter1816

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angelcraze said:
Well according to the link, it works better when combined with Neomycin. So maybe the Betta Revive and Metro in the food? Again, i'm sorry I keep stressing this, i'm only relaying info that I trust. I am not recommending anything.
no worries! I saved that link earlier so ill look at those products!

gregoranddexter1816 said:
no worries! I saved that link earlier so ill look at those products!
is this what you mean by Metro? I do see the betta revive! I think its the same thing used to heal and destress fish during shipment

angelcraze said:
Well according to the link, it works better when combined with Neomycin. So maybe the Betta Revive and Metro in the food? Again, i'm sorry I keep stressing this, i'm only relaying info that I trust. I am not recommending anything. But it is what I would do after researching like crazy if I had access to fish meds.

I just worry about meds in the water when you are trying to cycle. So I'd rather just add Neoplex to the food with Metro and bind with Focus.

FYI I read in someone else's link that you can bind meds with fish oil. Might be something to look into for cheaper or maybe more available.
Metro+ By HikarI brand?
 

angelcraze

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gregoranddexter1816 said:
Metro+ By HikarI brand?
I think this is ok.
Amazon.com : Seachem Aquarium Water Treatment Set - MetroPlex & Focus (5g Each) by Seachem : Pet Supplies
It's a smaller amount of Metronidazole but includes the binder Focus.

Alternatively, you can use HikarI Metro+ in the food and fish oil for a binder. Just giving you your options. But it would be best to also include Neomycin in the food soak as a synergistic blend.
 

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I think it may be, but I’ve personally never dealt with it to know for certain. I’d click the link for popeye and treat just in case.
 

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