Poor conditions at the LFS

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lokky.funky

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Jus wanted to share this info on how the LFS maintain their live stock in our region.

I recently went to a LFS complex (the building has multiple aquarium stores + pet stores - birds, puppies, etc..)

It is kind of bad looking, the way they keep the cheaper varieties of livestock in the glass tanks. They overstock it way too much (around 50 fully grown up mollies in a 15 gallon tank) and these fishes except for a few does not look health at all.

Most of them are sort of disturbed and are constantly looking for some rest.. A lot of tanks had dead fishes in it.. These people don't even bother to remove them.. huh.. It sorta stinks when you enter the store..

I even enquired, why these tanks are kept in such a bad way..

They say that it is for commercial purposes, they stock the tanks soo fully..

This is the case in almost all the LFS in my city

So, most of the fishes we take home are definite to have some stress related diseases..

I asked them about the Nitrogen cycle. No one is aware of it. These people are good only at keeping costlier livestocks properly, as any loss would be fatal for their business.. >
 

Tamara

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my LFS's in my city are the same. it is horrible.
out of about 50 fish in a little tank that's about 3 gallons there's about 10-20 dead fish...
 
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lokky.funky

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and for some reason, they have netted 100s of fishes and kept it just in the water surface

and they are gold fishes and they are finding it real difficult to breathe..
 
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lokky.funky

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Tamara, which country are you from?
 

Tamara

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Canada
 

Isabella

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It's not just you. I believe most of the fish stores are this way (or at least in America they are). It is horrible - they'll do anything for money. Neither anyone, at the fish stores that I have been to, knew what "cycle" was. It is simply unacceptable. Not to mention how overstocked the tanks are. All they care about is revenues, even if it means sick and dying fish. I have no respect for businesses like this. What they don't understand is that you cannot handle a live creature the way you handle some material goods for sale.
 

Tamara

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but would it still be smart to buy fish from them?
because almost all of my LFS are like that...so sometimes i go to another city...(30 minute drive) and buy fish from there..
would it be smart to continue to buy the fish from the other city..or just to get some from the crappy LFS?
 

Isabella

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I'd say it would be best not to buy from irresponsible and cruel fish stores. And if you're willing and have the time to drive to other stores that are ethical, you should definitely do this. Some people do not have access to a lot of fish stores and are stuck with those bad ones - that's when they have really no choice.
 

Richard

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...But Isabella..ain't it grand when you buy fish from stores like that,and get 'em healthy again?..I say that because Buzz and I get our fish from LFS that are clueless for the most part,and we've been able ,barring several unfortunate losses,to build up and maintain the health of our stock.
 

Isabella

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Yes, it's good to rescue the poor fish. But as long as people continue buying from unethical stores, they continue to grow and they continue to be cruel. If, all of a sudden, people stopped buying from stores like this, they'd go out of business and wouldn't be able to sell any fish at all - which is better than selling fish living in horrible conditions. They DEPEND on our money to survive. By buying from them we encourage them to further act they way they do.
 

Richard

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...but if we were to stop buying fish from these stores(none of whom are deliberately cruel,just clueless sometimes about the subtleties of keeping their stock healthy),quite a few of us,I'm guessing would not be able to have fish to raise..what I'm saying is,when there're no other options,these stores are where we have to shop for supplies,equipment,and occasionally,fish..them's the facts Isabella,whether we like it or not..all we can do is try to make the best of a bad situation.
 

Isabella

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Yes, of course I understand that for many people going to stores like this is the only option. If you don't have any better (by better I mean ethical) stores near you, unfortunately you're "stuck" with the bad ones. However, I wouldn't exactly call: keeping Bettas in half a cup of water, not knowing about the cycle - the MOST IMPORTANT piece of information anyone even remotely involved with fish should know, keeping tens of fish packed into 10-20 gallon tanks, keeping an Oscar 10" in size in a 15-20 gallon tank (NOT KIDDING - I've seen this), many fish dying at once in many tanks due to diseases caused by extreme overcrowding and God knows what ... I wouldn't exactly all all of these a "subtlety" ... sorry. Every LFS has a business owner and its manager(s). No one going into fish business can possibly "NOT know" about the things I mentioned above. Therefore it's not really hard to hire a manager who then will hire people who at least know about the BASICS of fish keeping. But don't you get it Richard? If they tell the customers about the cycle ... they won't have so much revenues anymore because people won't be able to buy a fish tank and 20 fish at once - something that is all too common around the world. And don't you get the fact that if they stock tanks lightly (which would keep the fish healthy) and according to the fishes' body sizes, they also won't have much revenues with that? It's all about money Richard, not "subtleties". And who suffers in the end? Of course, the fish - but who cares, right? Money's more important!

I know for a fact that if I were a manager of such a store, I'd never let anything like this happen. First of all, I'd never hire people who have NO CLUE about fish keeping. And if I couldn't find any people who "know their stuff", I'd educate the newly hired employees. It's really not that much to learn the basics. Yet with the basics in mind, so much could be improved at a typical LFS. This is called responsibility, by the way.
 

Richard

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I am on your side with everything you've said Isabella..don't get me wrong..but you and I both know that business is about profit..from the Enrons of this world to the smallest Mom&Pop run stores,the bottom-line is what it's about,and that's the almighty dollar/yen/shekel/peso/euro,it don't matter..we both know in the pursuit of profits,ethics die a quick death..you and I are from different sides of the tracks,in that you're a New-Yorker and I'm from the Caribbean..Trinidad could probably fit into New York several times over..my population is a measly 1.3 million,which automatically means less options in everything(including LFS)..and despite our differences in demographics,we both have LFS that are profit-driven to the detriment of their fish..the BIG difference between where you live and me,is that you probably have more professionally-run and ethics-driven LFS than I do..another difference is,the LFS in Trinidad with the highest disease and death rates have the widest variety of fish,fish-foods,equipment,aquariums etc...to their credit,they do try to keep their stock healthy,but if you're selling more Hamsters,Parrots and Puppies on a daily basis,I guess your priorities are pretty much set..I'd go out on a limb and tell you those of us who keep fish in Trinidad and all of the other Caribbean islands,roll the dice more often than not when it comes to buying fish..and if they're not in the best of health,we roll up our sleeves and do what we can to mend 'em..in a perfect world,all LFS would do the right thing by their fish..sadly,that's not the case.
 

chickadee

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and sadly that is why I made the decision to buy direct from breeders, instead of from LFS. I cannot stand the loss of my fish after I have loved and cared for them. I am quite aware that this is not what all would wish or can do, but it is still a much safer and better chance of getting a healthy and younger fish that has not been in a tank of fish that are floating with other sick or dead fish or in tiny cups. Even my male bettas are not usually resigned to the tiny cups that they are in the pet stores and if they are in small containers the water is changed every day as the breeders want the fins to be as well formed on their little charges as possible.

Rose
 

Isabella

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Richard, I also agree with what you said. I never said you "absolutely must not" buy from unethical fish stores. I just said that if you have any other, ethical store near you - that's where you should buy. And if you don't, then of course not. I already said that I DO understand that not everyone has a lot of fish stores around. Believe it or not ... New York has A LOT of very unethical fish stores, including those near me (except for the Aquarium Adventure store). I'd say the majority of NY fish stores are cruel and business driven, and unethical - so it's not just Trinidad and Tobago. But as I usually don't have the time to be driving around and looking for ethical stores, I am also stuck with my bad local stores for most of the time. Believe me: New York is one big money-making machine and of all the places in the world, you actually find here an extreme lot of unethical fish and pet stores. It's sad. All I meant before was that as a business person, if you can afford to, you should by all means strive to have as ethical a fish store as possible. I understand there are not as many business opportunities in Trinidad and Tobago as in New York - but still I'd encourage anyone to be as ethical as possible. I always try to put myself into the shoes of the suffering animals (including fish, however small they are). All life is precious.
 
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