Pond with no electricity?

Hiya

I want to make a pond in my local scout hut, but sadly I cannot get electric to it. Is it possible to have a non-electric filter or plants as filtration, but let it still be suitable for fish. I was only thinking 1/2 goldfish, or if I could somehow heat it, some sort of subtropical fish. However, this is only the planning stage, so any suggestions are welcome

I know Flowingfins is good with ponds

 

Since another post got my imagination going. I can touch on some filtering detail. I'm sure others will come along too.

Would it be possible to use a small solar panel (12v) to power a small pump? It doesn't need to be elaborate. Something just to function as a mechanical filter.

No power option-
Otherwise, if you are building it, you could put a low spot at the bottom with a valve to drain the debris, then top off the pond with fresh water.

The plants would be a good idea for helping with the biological filter in keeping your nitrates down. Plus they would just add liveliness that fake plants can't.

Since it's inside, I'm not sure of the size but my concern with plants would be if it were left unattended for a long period of time that the plants could empty the pond.


Sorry if this is the wrong age group or if I have this entirely wrong. I'm thinking of our boy/girl scouts of younger-teen age group.

If this is the case for you, this would be a good learning opportunity; fish/plant cycle, solar for the pump, using the debris water as fertz for watering other plants and of course the building skills.

 

Pretty much what outlaw said.

Inside or outside?

 

Outside, with kids ranging from 7 to 14

I can visit as often as needed

Also, I am hoping to get all of them involved, but I know they will be confused as to why they can only have one or two tiny fish! Any ideas on how to explain stocking to the younger ones

 

What is your climate like? Does it freeze in the winter?
Explain to them that the fish are like kids. When they are smaller, more of them can fit in a smaller space, but as they get older they need more space to be happy and to get away from mean siblings lol.

 

Good idea thanks!

It does freeze lightly in the winter but I thought this could be sorted by a deep pond

The temp here ranges from -2*c to around 25*c

 

I know in our area, deep would mean a few feet but our winters regularly see -23*c. Along with the proper depth, like you said and only mild cold temps, IMO, the pump would probably be enough to keep agitation and aeration for the fish year round.

As an alternative or backup plan-
For smaller size fish, could they be transported to an indoor aquarium?

Hopefully a pond person can chime in. I'm not sure how the smaller goldfish/koi do in the colder/winter temps. I know with the proper pond setup, people do leave them in year round.


For stocking/sizing. What I've told/asked my kids. Short and to the point
Would you be happy living in your bedroom with your sister the rest of your life or the entire house?

 

I can't afford to provide an indoor aquarium sadly... I found a solar powered pump by the way

Totally newbie question:

Do you use a pump and just connect that to a filter or is there a giant 'HOB' filter for ponds? I have never made a pond before so this is a new adventure for me!

 

No worries, i'm sure someone else may have thought to ask but didn't. Whoever else is able to help knows now

Is it a 5W kit. The main thing to keep in mind with the pump is max pump height.

I've seen some (2-3W I think) that were only 1.5ft/.5m which likely wouldn't work properly. The 5W I seen was about 5ft/1.5m which would give you some options for a small waterfall feature or 'canister' type filter.

For a simple filter where you could use the lower power pump, you would just need to have a sponge on the intake or exhaust side of the pump to catch debris. A lot of the submersibles will have this but still check before buying or you may have to make something. Something secured to one of the ends like this would work too.

The way I've always thought about them is a really large aquarium. Almost all the same principles apply with the added variable of weather. Oh and predators (circle of life learning?).

 

Reminds me of the lion king

So, let me get this straight
-You buy a pump and a filter
-you attach the pump to the filter to pump water into it
-I need a pump that has a high max pump height

I will update in a second with links to the pump and filter box thing

Filter -

Pump-



Would it be easier to buy an all in one kit

 

Sorry about the flash backs . May need a net or some deterrent.

That's a beafy setup!

Lets start with.

What size pond?
- The filter is quite large for just a couple goldfish imo.
- The pump may require a larger solar panel setup.

Just using this as an example of what I was thinking of. It's a solar pump kit.


I'm not sure if the plastic end comes off the pump where you could attach a sponge filter to the inlet. You could probably just attach to outlet if needed though.

 

Well I was thinking anything between 20 and 60 gallons!!!

But I haven't actually measured the space for it, just seen it out a window, so I don't know what will fit. I would really like minimum 2 fish. Can you get pond heaters? If so, could I try a betta sorority? Flowingfins Aquaphobia would this work (I make you guys do a lot of work! I hope you don't mind)


That pump of mine was a bad example, any with a solar panel will work!

 

I'll leave the fish questions for those with more knowledge.

Do you have a budget you're working with? I was sticking to something smaller for cost reasons.

Depending on budget, if your able to get a couple decent panels, a heater probably wouldn't be a big deal. Being they are power hungry is where the concern is though. As convenient as solar panels can be, the cost can get out of hand quickly.

Depending on cost, skill set and comfortability with electricity, you could look at a larger panel/kit that converts to standard outlet voltage. This would widen your option but still have to keep in mind your power restrictions.

 

What's the climate like where you live? Heating a pond to tropical temperatures could be prohibitively expensive if you get cooler weather. Depending on the depth of the pond and the type of fish you choose you could potentially get a heater just to keep it from freezing which would work for goldfish and others, but not bettas.

 

Climate is mentioned above, budget is just 'as low as possible'

Is that type of filter suitable though? If not can you link something that is? And are there any other pond fish suitable for my climate? Koi aren't an option size-wise and I can only think of tropical fish...

 

Good idea thanks!

It does freeze lightly in the winter but I thought this could be sorted by a deep pond

The temp here ranges from -2*c to around 25*c

Climate is mentioned above, budget is just 'as low as possible'

Is that air temperature? You're going to need a heater year 'round for that pond if you choose bettas. I've kept fancy goldfish outside in a colder climate but I had a really deep pond.

 

Maybe I will stick with goldfish

 

The filter/pump would be more than enough. BUT thinking of it in a 20-60gallon. I would not recommend it.

Think of that equipment in a standard 20-60 aquarium. It would be huge IMO. Now if you put that into a pond shape with tapering edges, you lost your depth and swim space.

I would use a smaller setup like the 5W I linked earlier. It has the pumping power if you want to put your filter outside the pond and won't take up a lot of space. Think of a custom trickle or canister filter. Oh and it would be easier on the budget


Also, you could incorporate a "aquaponics" type setup on the filter. (Yes, I realize a pond is just that but this can help show the kids more visually imo)

For the goldfish/koi option. Would it be possible to work with a local fishery or LFS to swap fish once they become to large? I know my LFS would take fish in and rehome for store credit. This could be used to get smaller fish and/or supplies.


*Last edit.
Also thinking about the heating aspect of it using solar. You would need to get somewhat complex with a battery and charging setup too to make sure the heater is able to run overnight when it is most needed. The pump/filter isn't as critical if it didn't run for a day or 2.

 

Also, you could incorporate a "aquaponics" type setup on the filter. (Yes, I realize a pond is just that but this can help show the kids more visually imo)

For the goldfish/koi option. Would it be possible to work with a local fishery or LFS to swap fish once they become to large? I know my LFS would take fish in and rehome for store credit. This could be used to get smaller fish and/or supplies.


*Last edit.
Also thinking about the heating aspect of it using solar. You would need to get somewhat complex with a battery and charging setup too to make sure the heater is able to run overnight when it is most needed. The pump/filter isn't as critical if it didn't run for a day or 2.

Any ideas for this aquaponics???

I might try the LFS idea, as people usually become particularly nice if you mention the local scout group and stories of 'I remember there' begin. I may be able to get some sort of deal!


Are preformed or just those sheets better as liners? Any pros/cons?

 

The aquaponics may be a "phase 2" scenario for when everyone is comfortable with a standard setup.

But....

Instead of a sponge or media collecting the debris, it would be pumped into a raised flower/plant bed/planter (usually with a gravel as the soil but not limited to). Once there, the debris is trapped in the bed and the water through a siphon or simple overflow setup is sent back to the pond as "filtered" water.

A sponge could still be used to make sure the debris stays in the plant bed if you feel it's needed.

 

If it was watered enough, could that become any sort of biological filtration or do I need an actual filter for that

 

Exactly.

If you planted the pond itself, it would be similar to the same thing but give you more plant space.

Having the planter or external filter is moving the debris out of the pond. Leaving the filter media in the pond would require you to reach into it for cleaning.

 

So if I did a planter separately if could be mechanical and biological filtration?

 

Yep. Basically just moving where the filtration is happening.

Only pond, no planter
Having the pump with sponge- mechanical filter
Plants in pond- biological filter

Pond and planter
Having pump go to planter- more surface area for mechanical filter
Having plants in pond and planter- more area for biological filter

It comes down to how much your wanting to do with it.


*update
To your preformed or liner question. Someone I'm sure will chime in with more details but it's really your preference. You would need to find out what size sheet you need to see the cost comparison.

 

There is only really us 2 at the moment

 

Haha, there are lurkers i'm sure.

Here is my idea very simplified.



Pump at the lowest spot of the pond to pick up the most debris
-Pumps to surface of planter.
-Water trickles through soil/gravel
-Water then spills out an overflow style outlet. The workings not shown would depend on planter and work willing to be done.

The outlet would also provide surface agitation and aeration along with that soothing waterfall sound . At least how it all works in my head.

 

This is great!!! Thank you so much!!! All of them will love this

 

No problem. Glad it helps and hope to see it in action!

Extra reminder-
Be sure not to exceed the max head height of the pump. With that setup, and pump restrictions, that is key.

I have ideas for the planter/trickle filter but didn't want to take away from your main topic here.

Best of luck and please post your work in the DIY section or a blog (anywhere really). I would like to follow it.

 

There are some small fish that do ok in colder water like Danio or White Colds Minnows. There smaller fish but you could get a nice size group of them. I can't say for sure they would be good in your pond but I don't see why they wouldn't be. I'm sure there is more then just them that could do ok in colder water.

 

Cool thanks! How many could I have in the minimum size? Or how many per say 10g?
outlaw I will! I think I am going to do the planter! For that little bit extra there will be a lot more to learn! Especially for the really little ones! They come to the same hut so will see the pond in action but aren't going to help dig/prepare it (some are as young as 6!)

 

There active little fish so I think they need 20 gallon long minimum and about 12-24 give or take. A group of each with 8-12 so there's 2 schools to watch.
I'd say what others say to make sure of my numbers tho as I know have school 2 schools of 12(different type fish but around same size) in my 55. I do however have big fish with them so that maybe the reasoning I don't have as big of schools. I'm just not trusting my math on it atm.
A pond will be a little different tho. There's also Giant Danio which maybe a nicer size for a pond but I know nothing about them so you would have to do some digging on that yourself.

 

I think the scouts would prefer this! Thanks

 

Would be nice do something about how the little ones have to stick together and safety in numbers over having to share a room/needing space of your own like you were asking about with the small number of goldfish.

 

Yeah!

Would these little fish be okay with outlaw idea on a planter filter

 

It's Outlaw idea so overall best to see what outlaw says but I can't see a reason it wouldn't work.

They have less wast then goldfish so would be easier to filter unless you get very large numbers. Less wast does however mean less food for the plants. A lot of well planted tanks normally over stock with fish to help with the difference, But as with plants its all about a balance. The right number of plants to fish would be needed for it to work right no matter what fish you go with. Again I have no idea how different it would be in a pond vs in someones home so will let others help you there.
I will also add with smaller fish you will have to watch holes a little more. You won't want a pump they would get sucked in to(strength and size of intake would need to be taken in to account), also if you do plants flowing in pots the size of holes ion the pots need to be in mind. The fish could swim in them to hide in the roots (that's if bare roots) but may also have a hard time getting out. again balance is needed.

 

Okay thank yoi

 

Depending on the kit you go with, check that the pump has a sponge filter on the inlet. This keeps bigger debris from damaging the impeller and smaller fish from getting sucked in.

If it doesn't have a sponge filter or at least a guard, MOST pumps have a cover that can be removed to connect tubing. You could add a barb/tubing with some sponge on the end.


Just thinking out loud again here. Someone please do correct if wrong.

What if you do 1 goldfish as a centerpiece fish? Along with the smaller schooling fish. If possible, this would help with your bioload for the plants. Otherwise, depending on final size of pond maybe a common pleco (after the first winter to see what your low temps are)? They'd be good at keeping the pond from getting too green.

I'm currently housing a small comet goldfish (nephews 2year old carnival fish) with a bristlenose. Obviously not the same fish but they don't seem to bother each other. Overall, the goldfish should be peaceful enough.

 

The pleco maybe a nice idea but the goldfish very likely would eat the smaller fish as he gets bigger. Then again a lot of plants and a nice school of them it maybe worth a try in a pond doesn't work well in in most tanks.

 

Pleco's can get very large and not a good idea for the size of pond being planned. Goldfish can also get very large so not recommended.

Comets are easy to keep, smaller as they average up to 4 inches and hardy in the right conditions of course.

Rosy Red minnows could be another choice but they like water movement and love skeeters. I'd put in maybe 10 to start (M&F) a few comets as a showcase. Rosy Reds breed like rabbits, so it won't be long till you got a few lol.

The concept of your pond should work well. My upper holding basin/waterfall is similar in concept.

I run a 2 hp inline pump that pulls from the bottom of my main basin, like a bottom drain. Then through a uv into a diy filter which is a 50 gallon pvc garbage bin. The pump feeds into this bin from the bottom forcing water flow upwards through plastic scrubbers where it flows out into the waterfalls and then into the holding pond. This then feeds a waterstream that empties back into the main 3000g plus basin.

My 2cents worth

 

Do you mean Comet goldfish? They get a lot bigger than 4"!