Please Think Before You Medicate!

*** DISCLAIMER! THIS IS NOT TO BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE!! IT IS MY OPINION BASED OFF FACTS I HAVE LEARNED AND PERSPECTIVES I HAVE SEEN ***

Ok, so I just have an important environmental observation to make!! Please stick around if you are interested in the safety of our oceans and the safety of us!

Super bugs:

I'm sure you've all heard about the panic and debates surrounding "super bugs" but if you haven't, then here is the summary:

• Common and uncommon diseases are getting more powerful and resistant to medicine.
• Scientists have linked this to using medicine when it is not needed or only using part of the medical course prescribed.
• It is most often linked to medicinal resistant strains of colds and flu, or more serious issues like pneumonia.

Scientists and the governments alike are beginning to realise the threat this poses to us as humans, and are making plans towards preventing the creation and spread of these super bugs. Super bugs can not be treated with most medicines, so patients sadly die from serious treatments gone wrong or lack of treatment at all.

New ocean discovery:

Just recently it has been announced that a super bug called enterococcI has been traced back to our deep blues, and it is suspected that other resistant species of pathogens live and breed in there. Here are a couple of links so you can do your own research, but I will summarise what this means for us and for the ocean down below;

Superbugs 'Crawled Out' Of The Ocean 450 Million Years Ago

From ancient oceans to modern hospitals: How one superbug became near indestructible

What scientists currently believe is that we are bringing ocean bacteria to our homes, hospitals and even aquariums (anywhere where the bacteria is in a different environment to their usual one) where the pathogen builds resistance to our chemicals and treatments, before findign their way back to the ocean via sewage and rivers to breed and become even more resistant. This is the current theory as to why these super bugs are being created.

What this has to do with aquariums:

With the increased availability of aquatic medication, fish keepers are using it more and more to quickly and effectively treat their fish of diseases.

However..

I fear that this over-use may contribute to the level of chemicals available for super bugs to become resistant to. Especially if pet owners are keeping wild-caught fish (with river or ocean bacteria) or releasing medicated water into the environment.

Furthermore, just as it happens in humans, by introducing fish antibiotics you are often killing the weakest pathogens but leaving the stronger ones to breed, reproduce and build resistance to the medicine itself.

This is not good for the fish in your tank, the fish in the ocean or for us, as these bacteria can affect us all.

What you can do:

I don't know about America, but here in the UK there is currently a push to reduce the amount of antibiotics used in an attempt to prevent more super bugs from being created and spread.

So I thought I should help all of us do the same for our aquariums, at least until the panic has died down or it is proven that aquariums do not contribute to super bugs.

Before you use medicine, you could:

• Thoroughly research what aquatic disease you are dealing with on the internet or through Fishlore in order to understand the pathogen better. Also, you will be able to use a more specific medicine to target your disease instead of a general cure (which can attack other pathogens in the tank, killing the weakest, letting the strongest breed and creating super bugs)
• Try using an alternate specific method of treatment. For example; using a pea or salt dip for bloat or the heat/dark/salt treatment for ich. Only use these if the methods have a decent success rate.
• Check for any commercial medication which does not use antibiotics, antibacterial or anything of the sort which is targeted at killing the disease using chemicals.

If you must use medicine, please:

• Only use it if you have to; if there is no other option or if the disease you are treating for is hard to cure.
• Do not empty the medicated water into the drain. Instead try removing the medicine using a carbon filter if you can. Even putting the water on grass is better than straight back into the sewers and our oceans.
• Medicate as instructed. Medical professionals understand more about fish pathogens than we could ever hope to know, so always follow the labels of reputable medicinal bottles. Even if your fish seem cured, complete the course to kill of the more resistant strains of pathogen.

Of course, I do not want you to let your fish suffer through lack of medication, but by taking these methods into account, we can keep both ourselves and our aquariums safe!

In summary:

Medicating our fish may be creating a strain of super bugs which can hurt fish and ourselves.

Until we have these super bugs under control, there are a few steps you can take to help keep things safer for the world we live in.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you have a happy 2018!

 

Thank you for that informational post! I've always tried to avoid medicating my fish(and myself) as much as possible for this reason, and just because it doesn't seem natural for the fish. In the wild do they get treated for illnesses? No. I admit I have treated my old Betta for a couple of things before, but only him. I've been lucky enough not to encounter any major fish illnesses. But next time I have have to medicate,I will make sure to remember your tips!

 

Personally I think the herbal stuff is garbage. Yes I have done a ton of research on bacteria that is resistant. As an immune comprised person I had to. Biggest problem is not necessarily using meds when they are needed but using them when they are not needed. If a disease can be identified and an antibiotic is the answer than by all means do it. But don't just start pouring things in the tank, it usually makes things worse.

 

Nice post! One thing I disagree with is medicating longer than instructed. Instead, I would offer the advice to medicate as long as instructed. Going too much longer can be bad, too.

 

This very very very strongly applies to antibiotics.

Edit: also very very strongly agree with david1978 re: herbal "natural" stuff belonging in the trash. Absolutely useless and damaging when people believe it works. Pets, unfortunately, don't understand placebo.

 

*** DISCLAIMER! THIS IS NOT TO BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE!! IT IS MY OPINION BASED OFF FACTS I HAVE LEARNED AND PERSPECTIVES I HAVE SEEN ***

Ok, so I just have an important environmental observation to make!! Please stick around if you are interested in the safety of our oceans and the safety of us!

Super bugs:

I'm sure you've all heard about the panic and debates surrounding "super bugs" but if you haven't, then here is the summary:

• Common and uncommon diseases are getting more powerful and resistant to medicine.
• Scientists have linked this to using medicine when it is not needed or only using part of the medical course prescribed.
• It is most often linked to medicinal resistant strains of colds and flu, or more serious issues like pneumonia.

Scientists and the governments alike are beginning to realise the threat this poses to us as humans, and are making plans towards preventing the creation and spread of these super bugs. Super bugs can not be treated with most medicines, so patients sadly die from serious treatments gone wrong or lack of treatment at all.

New ocean discovery:

Just recently it has been announced that a super bug called enterococcI has been traced back to our deep blues, and it is suspected that other resistant species of pathogens live and breed in there. Here are a couple of links so you can do your own research, but I will summarise what this means for us and for the ocean down below;

Superbugs 'Crawled Out' Of The Ocean 450 Million Years Ago

From ancient oceans to modern hospitals: How one superbug became near indestructible

What scientists currently believe is that we are bringing ocean bacteria to our homes, hospitals and even aquariums (anywhere where the bacteria is in a different environment to their usual one) where the pathogen builds resistance to our chemicals and treatments, before findign their way back to the ocean via sewage and rivers to breed and become even more resistant. This is the current theory as to why these super bugs are being created.

What this has to do with aquariums:

With the increased availability of aquatic medication, fish keepers are using it more and more to quickly and effectively treat their fish of diseases.

However..

I fear that this over-use may contribute to the level of chemicals available for super bugs to become resistant to. Especially if pet owners are keeping wild-caught fish (with river or ocean bacteria) or releasing medicated water into the environment.

Furthermore, just as it happens in humans, by introducing fish antibiotics you are often killing the weakest pathogens but leaving the stronger ones to breed, reproduce and build resistance to the medicine itself.

This is not good for the fish in your tank, the fish in the ocean or for us, as these bacteria can affect us all.

What you can do:

I don't know about America, but here in the UK there is currently a push to reduce the amount of antibiotics used in an attempt to prevent more super bugs from being created and spread.

So I thought I should help all of us do the same for our aquariums, at least until the panic has died down or it is proven that aquariums do not contribute to super bugs.

Before you use medicine, you could:

• Thoroughly research what aquatic disease you are dealing with on the internet or through Fishlore in order to understand the pathogen better.
• Try using an alternate specific method of treatment. For example; using a pea or salt dip for bloat or the heat/dark/salt treatment for ich. Only use these if the methods have a decent success rate.
• Check for any commercial medication which does not use antibiotics, antibacterial or anything of the sort which is targeted at killing the disease using chemicals.

If you must use medicine, please:

• Only use it if you have to; if there is no other option or if the disease you are treating for is hard to cure.
• Do not empty the medicated water into the drain. Instead try removing the medicine using a carbon filter if you can. Even putting the water on grass is better than straight back into the sewers and our oceans.
• Medicate for longer than instructed. This may seem counterproductive, but if you medicate for more than the label reccomends, then you are more likely to kill off the stronger of the bacteria and prevent them from reproducing.

Of course, I do not want you to let your fish suffer through lack of medication, but by taking these methods into account, we can keep both ourselves and our aquariums safe!

In summary:

Medicating our fish may be creating a strain of super bugs which can hurt fish and ourselves.

Until we have these super bugs under control, there are a few steps you can take to help keep things safer for the world we live in.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you have a happy 2018!

Thanks for posting it up and reminding everyone to be careful when considering using any medication.
I keep koi and I do full quarantine every time for my koi when they came in. It's scary if you don't do that. One thing I do agree is that you can use something which is more mild or some kind of natural product if possible rather than keep dosing chemicals. Salt used to be an effective medication for treating costia long time ago but is no longer working anymore. People are abusing the use of salt and in a long run, other than helping to release stress, it's no longer functioning in terms of treatment for a lot of disease.
It's everyone's responsibility to keep the world healthier

 

Great reminder. A lot of the problem is not doing frequent enough water changes. There is nothing better than fresh clean water to maintain a healthy aquarium.

 

Great reminder. A lot of the problem is not doing frequent enough water changes. There is nothing better than fresh clean water to maintain a healthy aquarium.

Totally agreed!

 

Thank you all so much for taking my notes on board! I agree with everything you guys are saying; never on my post did I mention herbs, water changes are a great prevention and cure, and I didn't mean medicate for too much longer than reccomended (just a couple of days).

As I said, don't take my words at face value, this is just what my knowledge and research has led me to believe! By all means go out there and come to your own conclusions.

Also, if you could link this thread to anybody who you think is abusing medicine I would greatly appreciate it!

 

I wouldn't even medicate for a few days longer though. The length of time they recommend should be sufficiently long enough to help prevent resistance

 

I think the real problem starts with the breeders. In all reality I could get a super bug in my tank and it would go no farther than my tank since I don't breed and sell fish. I still wouldn't medicate unless it is absolutely needed. Follow the instructions on the bottle that's why its there.

 

Wouldnt doing the medication longer to prevent the bug from being resistant to the drug?

 

Meds are hard on fish. The instructions for time wise is figured out by chemists and scientists. So there is no need to medicate longer than recommended.

 

I wouldn't even medicate for a few days longer though. The length of time they recommend should be sufficiently long enough to help prevent resistance

I think the real problem starts with the breeders. In all reality I could get a super bug in my tank and it would go no farther than my tank since I don't breed and sell fish. I still wouldn't medicate unless it is absolutely needed. Follow the instructions on the bottle that's why its there.

Those are both very valid arguments. I personally do not know the strength of the medication in the bottles and figured that since most pathogens, especially super bug potentials, are getting stronger and more resistant, that it would make sense to need a day or two of extra medication. But we are each entitled to our own thoughts and opinions, and that is just my take on the subject Its better for you all to have your own ideas based of your experiences and knowledge too!

 

The length of time for medicating, according to the bottles, should already take into account preventing resistance. Doing it longer can be more problematic. We don't know more about this than the doctors and scientists who make these recommendations.

 

The length of time for medicating, according to the bottles, should already take into account preventing resistance. Doing it longer can be more problematic. We don't know more about this than the doctors and scientists who make these recommendations.

Again, understandable! I will change that point in my line of argument then, thank you all for informing me

 

We just don't want people extending it by a week or something

 

We just don't want people extending it by a week or something

You're right, we got to make these things absolutely clear to people

 

Beside the overuse of antiobiotics my worries go out to the over/misuse of so called "broadband" meds.

"Oh well my fish is sick, I don't know what it is, so I medicated" For/against what?????

The overuse of wondermed Esha 2000 overhere (since the seventees) made it useless nowaday. Bacteria have become resistant against it.

In my opinion eathanising seriously sick fish is better than experimenting with all possible meds. I know it is controversial but that's my opinion.

 

Beside the overuse of antiobiotics my worries go out to the over/misuse of so called "broadband" meds.

"Oh well my fish is sick, I don't know what it is, so I medicated" For/against what?????

The overuse of wondermed Esha 2000 overhere (since the seventees) made it useless nowaday. Bacteria have become resistant against it.

In my opinion eathanising seriously sick fish is better than experimenting with all possible meds. I know it is controversial but that's my opinion.

Yes, I recently updated my "research disease" section to emphasise how general cure can help super bugs

 

A lot of “superbugs” definitely originate with improper antibiotic use. I always encourage other more natural means of treatments before antibiotics. Water changes, peas, heat, air stones. Then if not better after 4-5 days, then move on to a medication.

All antibiotics should be used for 7-10 days.
(Unless the doctor gives the double dose that stays in the system for 10 days, but fish meds don’t do that.)

It’s the nature of how antibiotics work. They work that way in humans too. Not using long enough causes resistance, and using too long causes resistance. So you need to have it just the right amount of time.

I said this before. Antibiotics work for bacteria, anti-fungals work on Fungus, and anti-parasitics work on parasites. You can’t use an antibiotic to kill round worms. It won’t work.

 

Oh come on why wouldn't an antI parasitic kill bacteria? Just kidding.

 

The superbugs are one thing but te resistance of common diseases to our meds worries me even more.

A week ago there was a programm about bacteriophages as an alternative to antibiotics (viruses that kill specific bacteria)

In the meam time we went mis/overusing antibiotics in Georgia (the country) they specialized in this form of treatment.
No resistance/immunity is build up !

 

The superbugs are one thing but te resistance of common diseases to our meds worries me even more.

A week ago there was a programm about bacteriophages as an alternative to antibiotics (viruses that kill specific bacteria)

In the meam time we went mis/overusing antibiotics in Georgia (the country) they specialized in this form of treatment.
No resistance/immunity is build up !

I used super bugs as an extreme example of resistance because it has been in the news a lot recently, but of course, resistance is still a big issue!

I just think at this stage it is important to do whatever we can to prevent this from worsening. At the very least, restricting meds in our aquariums will save our fish from a similar fate.

 

Those are both very valid arguments. I personally do not know the strength of the medication in the bottles and figured that since most pathogens, especially super bug potentials, are getting stronger and more resistant, that it would make sense to need a day or two of extra medication. But we are each entitled to our own thoughts and opinions, and that is just my take on the subject Its better for you all to have your own ideas based of your experiences and knowledge too!

If a bacteria is resistant to an antibiotic it will grow in the presence of the antibiotic no matter how long it is there. Extending treatment period increases the likelihood of other bacteria developing resistance either by mutation or genetic transfer. Follow the provided instructions they will be based on many experiments used to empirically determine the effective treatment regime.

Regarding the disposal of antibiotics, the easiest way is to add boiling hot water to the unneeded antibiotic. This will denature the protein and allow you to pour it down the sink.

 

If a bacteria is resistant to an antibiotic it will grow in the presence of the antibiotic no matter how long it is there. Extending treatment period increases the likelihood of other bacteria developing resistance either by mutation or genetic transfer. Follow the provided instructions they will be based on many experiments used to empirically determine the effective treatment regime.

Regarding the disposal of antibiotics, the easiest way is to add boiling hot water to the unneeded antibiotic. This will denature the protein and allow you to pour it down the sink.

I have been made aware of this already by the other members thank you, and changed my thread accordingly a short while ago.

But that is an interesting idea, I have not yet heard of that method!