Please Read, Stop Global Warming!!!!!!!!!

and it illustrates my point that we don't have enough information to be so certain of our supreme intelligence in having figured out the universe, especially on an issue tainted by politics from day 1.

Well said...that's exactly how I feel about the issue. If there's one thing more apalling than humanity's supreme ignorance, it's the fact that we seem to think we've got everything figured out....

 

0morrokh, well said... we think we know everything, and the truth is we've barely scratched the surface.

I don't rememeber who, but I remember someone once saying:
The first step to wisdom is the ability to say "I don't know..."

We don't have enough wisdom in this world to tackle the environment....

 

I agree.
I do not condone any attempt to alter the environment, I am pushing for attempts to stop altering the environment.
To presume that we aren't changing the environment by stripping old growth forests, by dumping vast amounts of chemicals and pollutants into the air and into the water, by killing off wolf populations because we think that deer, elk, moose, or whatever populations are getting too low, and then having to kill of deer, elk, moose, etc... because their populations sky-rocket (thank you, Bush administration), by building along coastlines, removing the plants and putting in sandy beaches, causing the coastline to erode far faster than undeveloped coastline, by building dams that keep annual flooding from happening, by building levees that change the flow of saltwater in the South, eating away at the swamps that protect much of Louisiana from hurricanes, is to be blind to our effect on the world.
Using the last idea as an example, take a look at maps and pictures of the Louisiana swamps since the levees were built, and you'll see what used to be a stable system quickly degrading. As the saltwater creeps in, trees die off. As the trees die off, the ground that they hold together gets washed out to sea, allowing saltwater to creep further in, killing off more trees, allowing the cycle to progress. This all started when the levees were built, and started out localized around the levees.
We are affecting the world, sometimes on purpose (such as trying to "control" wildlife populations or the building of the levees), sometimes on accident or as a result of some industry (such as global warming, water changes that are killing off the coral reefs, mercury in the lakes, erosion caused by cattle grazing). This is precisely what we need to minimize. On one front (population), we have already broken the rules of nature. We have grown beyond the limits of what an omnivore of our size should exist. On another front (location), we have broken another rule of nature. We have spread to nearly every continent on the globe.
So if the tiny zebra mussel can wreak havoc on the ecosystem of the Great Lakes when these two rules are broken, why would the human race, with all of our technology that we can use, but barely understand the true impact of, be incapable of wreaking havoc on any ecosystem it comes into contact with? (oh, yeah, we're responsible for the zebra mussel thing, too)

 

Very well put, sirdarksol. We will never know how what we do is going to affect our planet, which is precisely why we just need to start leaving nature alone. But due to human greed I'm sure it's never gonna happen....

 

Very well put, sirdarksol. We will never know how what we do is going to affect our planet, which is precisely why we just need to start leaving nature alone. But due to human greed I'm sure it's never gonna happen....

yea. in a world of uncertainty, isn't it funny how certain greed is?

 

Lol, the only thing we can say for sure is that human nature will always be big, bad, and greedy.

 

have you guys seen the concert on July 7th? they have some famous band playing at seven different content of the earth, playing music to spread out the words of global warming

 

Wow....I thought that people who still thought global warming was a hoax were some crazy rarity, like cool guys who play D&D, or Hilton heirs who are good drivers. Awesome.

 

Well crazy probably, but not necessarily a rarity. Oh and definitely not cool either by the way.

Well, I wouldn't say that I would call global warming a hoax. (global warming here meaning the theory that human activity is causing the warming... the 'global warming' itself, as in the planet's actual temp increase, is an observable fact.) It's an interesting theory with some evidence. But it's not proven so I'm not going to stand up and declare that we're causing global warming, as a fact. I'm all for pollution and emission reduction...but I'm not going to say that doing it will reduce the warming because we just don't know. I don't care what scientists say...remember most of them have an agenda too, just like politicians...it is not at all proven that we are causing the rise in temp.

 

i'll 2nd that.

 

Well, I wouldn't say that I would call global warming a hoax. (global warming here meaning the theory that human activity is causing the warming... the 'global warming' itself, as in the planet's actual temp increase, is an observable fact.) It's an interesting theory with some evidence. But it's not proven so I'm not going to stand up and declare that we're causing global warming, as a fact. I'm all for pollution and emission reduction...but I'm not going to say that doing it will reduce the warming because we just don't know. I don't care what scientists say...remember most of them have an agenda too, just like politicians...it is not at all proven that we are causing the rise in temp.

Exactly!

But at the same time, I'm here in Florida, and it's averaging 95+ every afternoon, until the thunderstorms kick in. I work outside and it's hot, sticky, and nasty, and I decided this afternoon that I blame Al Gore. lol.

 

and the floridians who speak english say

 

It's an interesting theory with some evidence. But it's not proven so I'm not going to stand up and declare that we're causing global warming, as a fact.

We've discussed everything else, so I'm not going to go over any of that again, but I would like to point out that, in logically-argued science, there is no way to "prove" anything. Everything is theory, and the closest thing to proof is lack of disproof. Even gravity is only a theory, despite the fact that we can see its effect, measure it, and so on and so forth. Only the simplest, most basic directly observable things may be considered "fact". Example: A mouse was fed arsenic: Fact. That mouse died: Fact. The mouse died because of the arsenic: Theory (a very sound theory, with a large amount of corroborating evidence, but still a theory).
This is the reason behind the idea that for an experiment to be valid, it must be reproducible in another laboratory setting. In other words, other scientists must be able to "fail to disprove" something for it to be considered valid. If other scientists replicate the supposed scenario and fail to achieve the stated results, the experiment has been disproven, unless someone determines that something different was done in the second lab and rectifies the problem.
This is why I support the theory. Nobody has disproven it. I have never had any opponents of the idea provide anything resembling disproof of the theory, and since it is something that could make the earth nigh uninhabitable in the very near future (read; one or two centuries), and since I believe that the human race was given the task of protecting the Earth, I would rather not take the chance.

 

Not one or two centuries!!! scientists believe if the temperature of Earth keeps rising in the rate it is rising now, Antarctica will melt within 50-70 years and most of the coastal cities will be under ocean.

 

some might believe that (or say they do for funding).. other scientists disagree and still other scientists are more worried about asteroids and other ways the world will end. so much money and politics involved that it's hard to not be skeptical. in 50-70 years, we could all be crispy critters from the nuclear wars anyway.. I remember when that was the inevitable end of the world.

 

The ice at the poles is melting. More of it has melted than has melted in many millenia (according to studies of the ice caps, core samples from deep within the ice, etc...) And yes, if the ice caps melt, coastal cities will be severely affected. But this does not make the world "nigh uninhabitable."
What I'm talking about is climate change that comes about fast enough that the forests, jungles, plains, and waters of the world are severely harmed, reducing the world's ability to filter out toxins.
I wouldn't discount nuclear war as being a possible end of the world. Think of the adage "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you." It's not wise to automatically discount something merely because a politician has used it to try to swing a vote his way. Nuclear war (or accident), pandemic (caused by intentional manipulation of biological agents, or by incidental manipulation due to exposure to antibiotics, or by dumb luck, it doesn't matter), global warming, human extermination after the Robot Wars of Aught Nine, any of these could be the way we go. We just have to work hard at making conditions as difficult as possible for any of these scenarios to occur.
So remember, boys and girls, keep your robot pets (iDogs or whatever you've got), Armatrons, and Capsella-bots away from Daddy's yard equipment, especially the chainsaws. And, for the love of all that's holy, don't allow your Furbies to interact with any of the above-mentioned artificial beings. If anyone leads the Robot Revolution, it will be the Furbies.

 

I don't know may be there is a chance nuclear war could end this world but global warming is the no. 1 threat.

 

given the proliferation of nuclear weapons to so many countries and terrorists, the odds of nuking go up.. enough nukes go off and it will be too cold to worry about global warming.

 

Don't forget the cows farting. :;z

and you thought you were being funny Just to add my two cents worth

Carol

 

there ya go!

 

There's a show on tonight on Discovery or History channel... I have to go look... called "The little Ice Age" or something like that. I've seen it before. It's about the small ice age that occured in the middle ages; something like 1400-1800 AD. What's interesting is that right before this the planet was warming, just like it is now. I don't remember the exact details, but the planet stopped warming because the ice caps were starting to melt, and the cool water from the ice caps did something to change the currrents in the atlantic, thereby kicking in this ice age.
Like I said, I don't remember the details, but I plan on taping it this time. I want to see if I heard it right, because they're implying that this small ice age was CAUSED by global warming.
Could this be the earth's way of keeping things in balance?

 

The basic idea is that melting ice introduces large amounts of fresh water to the oceans, lowering ocean salinity, which then affects currents, which in turn affects climate. The scenario that gets talked about a lot involves the "Atlantic Conveyer", which is a current that helps warm western Europe (and maybe even eastern US...can't recall for sure), getting switched off. When that happens you need a parka and a spear for seal fishing to live in those areas. The interesting question that you touch on is basically which effect would be "stronger"? I dunno.

 

There's a show on tonight on Discovery or History channel... I have to go look... called "The little Ice Age" or something like that. I've seen it before. It's about the small ice age that occured in the middle ages; something like 1400-1800 AD. What's interesting is that right before this the planet was warming, just like it is now. I don't remember the exact details, but the planet stopped warming because the ice caps were starting to melt, and the cool water from the ice caps did something to change the currrents in the atlantic, thereby kicking in this ice age.
Like I said, I don't remember the details, but I plan on taping it this time. I want to see if I heard it right, because they're implying that this small ice age was CAUSED by global warming.
Could this be the earth's way of keeping things in balance?

it might explain how people lived in florida without A/C back then.

 

it might explain how people lived in florida without A/C back then.

The lady that used to live across the street didn't have A/C. She was in her 90's; was born & lived her whole life here in florida. She used to tell me the heat didn't bother her, so why waste the $$$. I always thought she was nuts. I guess it's like anywhere, if you're there long enough you get used to anything.

 

it might explain how people lived in florida without A/C back then.

The lady that used to live across the street didn't have A/C. She was in her 90's; was born & lived her whole life here in florida. She used to tell me the heat didn't bother her, so why waste the $$$. I always thought she was nuts. I guess it's like anywhere, if you're there long enough you get used to anything.

lol.. more power to her.. I'll just be thankful for the wheel, fire and A/C - our greatest inventions ever!

 

There's a show on tonight on Discovery or History channel... I have to go look... called "The little Ice Age" or something like that. I've seen it before. It's about the small ice age that occured in the middle ages; something like 1400-1800 AD. What's interesting is that right before this the planet was warming, just like it is now. I don't remember the exact details, but the planet stopped warming because the ice caps were starting to melt, and the cool water from the ice caps did something to change the currrents in the atlantic, thereby kicking in this ice age.
Like I said, I don't remember the details, but I plan on taping it this time. I want to see if I heard it right, because they're implying that this small ice age was CAUSED by global warming.
Could this be the earth's way of keeping things in balance?

i've seen that show

 

Hey guys, the desert in central Asia is expanding and look at the current flood situation in England! and it's rainy season in our country and we have not seen sun for 2 weeks in my city; i'm afraid it has already begun :-[ .

 

of corse the dessert is going to expand the sand is being blown every which way.

 

Yes, but unless something is physically (geologically?) PRODUCING more sand, the desert isn't expanding, it's only relocating from one point on the planet to another. As for the rainy season, I've been in florida now a little over 10 years, and I've seen it change slightly, year after year. But according to my grandfather, who had lived here for decades, this is normal, and it cycles every 19-20 years or so. I do know thinking back that the snowstorms up north followed more or less the same pattern. Do you have acccess to weather data from the last 20 or more years in your area? It might be interesting to see if this is really a problem, or just a weather cycle.

 

Not sure will have to check.

 

desert in central asia, huh? so that'll be a beach when the ice caps melt? seriously, what kind of deforestation is going on there? is it in china? just think of the damage china will do as it industrializes with a billion+ people.

 

Nope, the desert is actually expanding (at least, the Sahara is). It's not that more sand is being produced, it's that the humus (the organic parts of soil) is being used up, and with little or no more decaying organic matter to replace it, all that's left is the sand (inorganic) part of the soil. With the Sahara, it's sort of a critical mass thing. There's always been a desert there. But then, man dammed up the Nile, ending the yearly flooding that reintroduced fertile soil to the land. Likewise, forests were stripped, some by humans, some by acts of nature. All of this added up to the desert expanding and growing more inhospitable around the edges. It started slowly, but is moving quicker now, where the dry, inhospitable nature of the desert is expanding, killing off more plants, creating more desert, and continuing the cycle.
In this case, I'm not saying that it wouldn't be happening without man's involvement. The land around the Nile wouldn't be affected as much if it hadn't been dammed up, but the desert may have still spread around the rest of Africa.
I presume that something similar happened in Asia, since the flood/dry cycle is similar there, and is what created such an excellent point of growth for civilization in the first place (just like the Nile), and since man has probably done his best to try to stop the flooding there.

 

Not only SAHARA but GOBI desert in China is also expanding at an alarming rate. it's not relocating Jim; it's simply expanding.................

 

Yes, but unless something is physically (geologically?) PRODUCING more sand, the desert isn't expanding, it's only relocating from one point on the planet to another. As for the rainy season, I've been in florida now a little over 10 years, and I've seen it change slightly, year after year. But according to my grandfather, who had lived here for decades, this is normal, and it cycles every 19-20 years or so. I do know thinking back that the snowstorms up north followed more or less the same pattern. Do you have acccess to weather data from the last 20 or more years in your area? It might be interesting to see if this is really a problem, or just a weather cycle.

Not sure if this site works because I can't download anything of my computer because it stinks.

 

Oh god, didn't we already go thru this???
OK, I'll voice my opinion agail, but I'll be brief.

Yes, the planet is warming... but humans don't have a thing to do with it. Search thru history, the planet warms, then it cools... rinse, repeat..
I'm sick of hearing about it, it's become the biggest political joke in years! Suddenly politicians and hollywood syncophants that no-one would trust for a second are now experts... EXPERTS... in global climate patterns? You must be kidding me! The greatest scientists have been studying the environment for centuries and are just starting to scratch the surface... you expect a political hack like Al Gore suddenly knows more???
All of you that put so much faith in Mother Ghia sure don't give her much credit... she can handle the very SMALL changes we might make in the environment. Compaired to the occasional supervolcano or asteroid, we humans are NOTHING to her!!!

I totally agree with you, in a following post it is stated that it is EXPERTS, not politicians and singers that are pointing out the problem, well, I also think expert knowledge that ice ages, and warmings have been with us through history. THAT is why we have oil up here in Alaska in the first place. Do you think the massive vegetative coverings that created the oil would have been possible if it wasn't warm in what is now the arctic?

People remain SO full of themselves to think we actually are so important. Yes, I agree that we need to try and be good stewards of this earth, but people also have to live, and be able to support themselves and their families, and get to work.
For entertainers who "give to the cause", it is a HUGE tax writeoff.....For politicians who stump the cause, it makes millions...." Just another way to serve selfish interests.

Much to-do about nothing!

Fish in the STILL Frozen North

 

Oh god, didn't we already go thru this???
OK, I'll voice my opinion agail, but I'll be brief.

Yes, the planet is warming... but humans don't have a thing to do with it. Search thru history, the planet warms, then it cools... rinse, repeat..
I'm sick of hearing about it, it's become the biggest political joke in years! Suddenly politicians and hollywood syncophants that no-one would trust for a second are now experts... EXPERTS... in global climate patterns? You must be kidding me! The greatest scientists have been studying the environment for centuries and are just starting to scratch the surface... you expect a political hack like Al Gore suddenly knows more???
All of you that put so much faith in Mother Ghia sure don't give her much credit... she can handle the very SMALL changes we might make in the environment. Compaired to the occasional supervolcano or asteroid, we humans are NOTHING to her!!!

I totally agree with you, in a following post it is stated that it is EXPERTS, not politicians and singers that are pointing out the problem, well, I also think expert knowledge that ice ages, and warmings have been with us through history. THAT is why we have oil up here in Alaska in the first place. Do you think the massive vegetative coverings that created the oil would have been possible if it wasn't warm in what is now the arctic?

People remain SO full of themselves to think we actually are so important. Yes, I agree that we need to try and be good stewards of this earth, but people also have to live, and be able to support themselves and their families, and get to work.
For entertainers who "give to the cause", it is a HUGE tax writeoff.....For politicians who stump the cause, it makes millions...." Just another way to serve selfish interests.

Much to-do about nothing!

Fish in the STILL Frozen North

I think this time it's different; experts have found holes in the ozone layer which they r saying has never happened in the history of earth, and this time the earth is warming up because of the excess of CO2 gas in the atmosphere which is created by us through factories, nuclear plants, motor vehicles etc. yes, we have to live happily but we should take care of our planet too; and we should start to think how can we protect her from global warming; why take the chance? we should become more careful about what we do to our planet; it's not like we can go shopping somewhere else!

 

just wondering......how would they know what the ozone layer was doing hundreds of years ago? they didnt have the technology then? anything higher than a tree was undiscovered territory!!

 

I think it's guessing.. taking a piece of ice and guessing it's age, then measuring chemicals in it and guessing why they're there.. and the right guesses mean more funding.. and some human arrogance doesn't hurt to say we've figured it all out and are so smart we can be totally sure of the past from some ice cubes.

 

"Guessing" is an interesting name for educated theories.

Ok, so I agree that scientists may not necessarily be right about the "never happened before", but also, look at it this way. If you don't believe we've put holes in the ozone, isn't it a huge coincidence that we just happened to to build all of our rocket launch sites under holes in the ozone?

 

Ok, so I agree that scientists may not necessarily be right about the "never happened before", but also, look at it this way. If you don't believe we've put holes in the ozone, isn't it a huge coincidence that we just happened to to build all of our rocket launch sites under holes in the ozone?

I thought the hole was over the antartic (or artic). We don't launch from the south pole, do we?