Please Read, Stop Global Warming!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: sgould
Not make enemies or raise my own blood pressure.

SGould, no problems, we're cool. I was just putting in my opinion... if it sounded like I was pisssed or anything, I wasn't. Sorry, I just write like that.

Posted by: Xenomorph
At the risk of going off topic... has anyone ever noticed that non-conformist rebels always seem to conform to a stereotype?

yes... interesting, isn't it.....

 

SGould, no problems, we're cool. I was just putting in my opinion... if it sounded like I was pisssed or anything, I wasn't. Sorry, I just write like that.

I know you weren't...I just didn't want to get there myself! 8)

 

when you go outside of course you're not gonna see the 12000 mile gap in the ozone layer that is getting bigger and bigger every year, and of course you're not gonna feel the temperature is getting hotter and hotter every year because your bodies are already adjust to it. okay maybe we'll never gonna beable to work together to save ourselfs, but we can't deny that it isn't happening.

 

PPK9110Oh, it's definitly getting warmer. The real debate is whether this is a good or bad thing. Most of the pro-global warming crowd is all in a panic and thinking this is a bad thing that must be fixed NOW. I'm part of the crowd that is of the opinion that this is just a cycle in the environment and no real big deal. The earth gets warmer, then it cools again. I think the problem is we're looking at the weather year after year and not century after century. We've only been keeping good weather records for maybe a hundred years or so, so it's hard to see if this is a real problem or just something that happens over the centuries.

 

Just because man's records of weather patterns only extends back a century or so doesn't mean that's all the further back that we can track the weather. Trees, layers of ice, layers of sediment, tracking the progress/egress of glaciers. All of these things allow us to analyze past weather. While it won't give us a year by year picture, it can give us a decent idea, and when we're talking about tens of thousands of years, a few years off doesn't matter.
And I've looked into the Toba Catastrophe Theory, and it doesn't particularly apply to this discussion (either in support of my argument or in support of others). In addition to the CO2 and other greenhouse gasses thrown in to the air, so much ash was thrown into the air that the global temperature is thought to have dropped by an average of 5C for several years (which doesn't seem like a lot, but even one degree average can be a huge deal). This time may have triggered another ice age.
In the discussion we are talking about, the change is likely to be four degrees in the other direction by 2080 (in London. Other countries will have more or less change, parts of South America and the Poles are likely to be the hardest hit).

I've found the page regarding the huge climate change experiment that the BBC ran last year. This was not political. It's not a platform to rake in votes for parliament. This is just the largest use of computer power (until the airplane-hangar-sized supercomputer is completed) ever to calculate the various factors (including human involvement) involved in the changing weather.
No matter what side of the fence you're on, please look through this. It is not meant to be the be-all and end-all to this discussion, but it is intelligently put. As I said, not made by politicians to sway opinion, just stating things as the experiment revealed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/climateexperiment/whattheymean/inevitable.shtml

 

What role is China having in the global pollution? Look at the size of that country and it's population. Now that other countries are overlooking the human rights (or lack thereof) issues, China is consuming huge amounts of fossil fuels as they majorly industrialize and only increasing their consumption and resulting pollution.. I don't think they have EPA regulations and such even to bother with.. I think it all illustrates that the bottom line with the human race is money,money,money,MONEY. we can debate issues but if there's one constant in our history, it's greed. are our countries going to stop trading with countries that pollute extensively when the lack of basic freedoms is given a blind eye? not with the amount of money involved. money makes everything good.

I think the BBC study has some valid points about pollution and I would LOVE to see pollution dealt with using modern technology and advancements being held back by the greedy oil companies and their politician monkeys. I think anyone, either believing in global warming or not, would like to see a cleaner planet. we're moving back to Denver for a job and I can tell you that you SEE the air when you look down into the 'bowl' the city is in and the pollution there is caused more by refineries spread around the city, more than cars. if we were using clean hydrogen for fuel, those refineries would be vacant or gone and not producing horrible pollution levels. everywhere you look, i'm sure you can find pollution sources that could be replaced by clean fuel if the hands of science weren't cut off by the greed of politics. we don't have to move backwards to clean up the planet, we need to move forward into an age of technology and clean hydrogen fuel.

 

I think the BBC study has some valid points about pollution and I would LOVE to see pollution dealt with using modern technology and advancements being held back by the greedy oil companies and their politician monkeys. I think anyone, either believing in global warming or not, would like to see a cleaner planet. we're moving back to Denver for a job and I can tell you that you SEE the air when you look down into the 'bowl' the city is in and the pollution there is caused more by refineries spread around the city, more than cars. if we were using clean hydrogen for fuel, those refineries would be vacant or gone and not producing horrible pollution levels. everywhere you look, i'm sure you can find pollution sources that could be replaced by clean fuel if the hands of science weren't cut off by the greed of politics. we don't have to move backwards to clean up the planet, we need to move forward into an age of technology and clean hydrogen fuel.

I agree with everything except for the idea that the refineries would be vacant. Unfortunately, the current state is that hydrogen takes a large quantity of energy to remove from water. This is the case for pretty much every energy source, it takes energy to release the energy. One of the biggest things that scientists are currently working on is refining hydrogen with much less energy use. If we could ever harness solar, wind, geothermal, or tidal power and use it to refine large quantities of hydrogen, we would have as close to a perfect energy source as I believe exists. These studies are being done, the information is getting out there. One by one, more people such as you and myself are clamoring for better energy sources. Upstart companies are seeing the potential for profit. In this way, greed is also working for us.
The problem is exactly what you said, the people with the money are fighting tooth and nail to hang on to it. They are short-sighted, and can only comprehend the easy way of doing things. They don't see that, if they headed the production of various biofuels, hydrogen, and other energy sources, they could continue to make money. This is probably for the better. This way, the stagnancy of the past century can be cleared away, making room for a new group of rich people to try to rule us. Wait a tic...that's not much better than before. Gotta work on that.

 

I believe we're at least 60 or 70 years behind where we should be in the advancement of hydrogen fuels (and in time zero point energy - currently scifi, but scifI is often a window to our future in ways) thanks to the greed of the oil companies and politicians.. just think of what it would be like if fuel technology had advanced as much as computer technology.. and I find these "we care" BS fuels like E85 to be pathetic attempts to placate the cry for clean fuel. hey, the terrorists need their funding so we gotta keep using oil, right?

of course, i'd still love to have a mr. fusion on my flying car.

 

I don't think of E85 as BS at all. Yes, it produces pollutants as it burns (not as much as petroleum, though), but as I said above, making ethanol (read: growing the biomass for it) takes pollutants out of the air. If the right biomass is used, the environmental impact can actually be positive. Even more, though, I support the use of renewable biomass as an alternative to coal burning. In MN, a large amount of energy is produced by burning coal. We're also trying to renew our natural prairies. If we harvested the grass from some of these prairies, it would produce energy. This would encourage energy companies to put money into saving the natural prairies. Returning the spent ash from the power plants to the prairies would renew the soil. The growing grass pulls more CO2 and CO out of the air over the growing season than burning it creates. Best of all, at least for people who like to fish in MN, burning prairie grass doesn't release mercury, which is a huge concern for people who eat fish from the lakes here.
I love the ideas of science fiction, and know the eerie way that it can be a window to the future, but because we don't know what will become reality and what will be lost (read Ray Bradbury's "The Illustrated Man" sometime, and you will see a mish-mash of ideas come to fruition and ideas that have become jokes), I mostly concern myself with what is known will work, and leave such theorizing to those whose degrees allow them to comprehend it. (I do my own theorizing in my writing, but it's purely fictional)
I've always both loved and hated the idea of cold fusion as a private-level energy source. On one hand, cheap fuel, lots of energy, etc... On the other, though, the high cost of a restart should your system go cold (the amount of energy to start any sort of nuclear reaction is astronomical), and the thought of a car's engine going critical on the highway is a little frightening to me.

 

the thing about E85 is that it seems like a half-hearted endeavor at best by the oil companies. it doesn't feel like they really want it to go anywhere, but are doing it as a token gesture.

zero-point energy is the stuff of scifI now, but there are scientific theories on it and should we ever find our way to that fueling our world, it would be incredible.. true, it's a long way off, but every journey starts with a first step and I see hydrogen fuels as a first step to theoretical fuels.. some may never happen, some may.. but a true clean fuel source in adundant supply would be a worthy goal to strive for.

yea, mr. fusion is probably never going to happen, but it sure would be fun to fuel your car with banana peels and beer cans. lol.

 

Hey, anyone remember mad Max 3 Beyond Thunderdome?
"Barter-town runs on Methane
Methane cometh from Pig-manure.."

 

Don't forget the cows farting. :;z

 

sorry guys don't belive in Global Warming.

 

sorry guys don't belive in Global Warming.

me either, but everyone's entitled to their opinions and I do hate pollution, oil companies and politicians.. and I think those cows are up to something with all their farting.

 

The Cows are out to get us. No actually I think the Goverment is out to get us I just dislike the goverment.

 

The Cows are out to get us. No actually I think the Goverment is out to get us I just dislike the goverment.

maybe the cows AND the government are working together... although government is awfully full of pork..

 

that is funny mabe the cows have taken over the goverment and are controling our minds right now. ha ha ha ha aha ah ah h ah ah ha ha.

 

Hey guys, I have an idea. Let's ignore the unbearable heat.

His fish died
V
V
V

 

we pollute our ocean, its really dirty.

 

the goverment of cows are using the ocean as a giant landfill

 

Whatever you say, child seeker.

 

I still say the goverment is using the oceans as giant landfills.

 

That's a sure thing.

 

I thought we were talking about global warming... -_-

 

we are because the goverment throughs trash into the ocean then it makes the ocean nasty and everyone gets sick.

 

I think days of government using the ocean as landfill are over, is it? if so, where...?

 

Would that really affect global warming though?

 

Actually, it probably would. Human activity has doubled the amount of dust and sediment that gets washed into the ocean, according to geologist Kevin Harrison (in the scientific journal Paleoceanography), and the changes in the amount of silica in the ocean affects the abundances of the different types of phytoplankton.

Some haptophytes, called coccolithophores, may have a big effect on the amount of carbon dioxide in the air, as well as the amount of light reflected from the ocean (ocean albedo). They also produce a chemical compound that helps seed clouds, reflecting more light from the surface of the earth.

There are conflicting theories about exactly how coccolithophore populations will change with global warming, and whether they may slow or speed up climate change. There are complicating factors, like changing ocean pHs eating away at their calcium carbonate skeletons and stuff.

But bottom line is the oceans definitely have a big role when it comes to global climate.

 

What if this alledged global warming is the result of our sun heating up? Holy krypton Batman! ;D

 

What if this alledged global warming is the result of our sun heating up? Holy krypton Batman!

Try again, grasshopper.

 

Sort of related ... for all those that said that an electric car couldn't be sexy, Tesla Motors is trying very hard to prove you wrong! Saw an article on this car the other day, and it looks like it might become quite popular.

surely the electric car is only enviro friendly if the electricity isn't generated from a power station powered from fossil fuels. the majority of the uk's electric comes from burning coal which releases vast amounts of pollutants and of course the fossil fuels won't last forever. the government have GOT to do their bit by encouraging renewable resources such as wind and tide.....and believe me the uk has plenty of both of those. other countries have sun for solar power and other sources. the UK climate is fast changing. over the past 10 years, winters no longer bring snow, summer brings endless rain, and this year we've had devastating floods making thousands homeless.

 

yeah I doubt that the sun is heating itself, because we would of detect that already, global warming is happening and we should do what we can to protect our enviroment, for those who believe it isn't happening, shouldn't you guys be protecting our enviroment anyways? 鸦片

 

Sort of related ... for all those that said that an electric car couldn't be sexy, Tesla Motors is trying very hard to prove you wrong! Saw an article on this car the other day, and it looks like it might become quite popular.

surely the electric car is only enviro friendly if the electricity isn't generated from a power station powered from fossil fuels. the majority of the uk's electric comes from burning coal which releases vast amounts of pollutants and of course the fossil fuels won't last forever. the government have GOT to do their bit by encouraging renewable resources such as wind and tide.....and believe me the uk has plenty of both of those. other countries have sun for solar power and other sources. the UK climate is fast changing. over the past 10 years, winters no longer bring snow, summer brings endless rain, and this year we've had devastating floods making thousands homeless.

Maybe not entirely environmentally friendly, but more so. Your average electric motor is more efficient than a piston-driven gasoline engine. There's a new "hybrid" coming out whose engine actually only runs on electricity, but it has a gas-powered generator in it. The thing is supposed to get some insane amount of miles per gallon. Of course, you're trading out some acceleration and top speed, but everything has its ups and downs.

As far as not believing global warming is happening, I can't even comprehend that. While I disagree with him, at least I can understand Jim's position of
"it's natural." But to not even believe it's happening is to ignore the simple facts of what is happening in the world around us.

 

sirdarksol, thank you.
I just have been facinated by archeology and palientalogoy sinse I was a boy, and I know the planets environment has changed radically over the eons. And as smart as we think we are, we only have a clue as to how it changes, I it slow and constant, or does it change in spurts. This warming phase could be totally natural.
My point is, I'm worried about all the people jumping to fix this "problem" without having the slightest clue whether or not it IS a problem. And I trust it even less when I see someone like Robert Kennedy (I kdon't remember which middle initial this one has...lol). Anyway, he was on the Glenn Beck show last night, adn I swear to god he said "The global warming problem isn't so much about fluorescent light bulbs and Prius's as it is about how you vote in '08".
WHAT?? So it's all about votes, and has nothing to do with the earth?
This is where I have a huge problem. I'm an old hippie from way back. I've hugged trees at grateful dead concerts before most of you were born. And the 1st and MOST important rule to being a hippie... ****, probably the ONLY rule to being a hippie... NEVER TRUST THE MAN!
So now here comes Al Gore, former Vice Presidennt, as slick and double talking as any politican around, telling ME about the environment? No, I don't think so. Back when REAL hippies walked the earth, they would have laughed in old Al's face!

 

yea.. the incredible amount of politics involved is what makes me skeptical. I look at that article and yet the other day I saw a report on the amount of methane released by cows - apparently they put out more 'pollution' than the biggest gas guzzlers out there. there's other natural emissions around the globe and who knows what we don't know about yet contributing to it. so when I see a report blaming it all on humans, it sets of that alarm that says "funding" & "politics".. I don't trust 'the man' and have total confidence in the ability of a politician (and anyone bought by them) to lie through their teeth to us. don't forget these are the monkeys keeping us in the age of pollution while they line their pockets with oil company money while they cry about the end of the world. they don't care about the environment or 'global warming', they care about the new jet, the new mistress and whatever else they feel like buying. i've noticed that money makes the world go round and it's a lot easier to get it when you sell a crisis.

 

Money might make the world go 'round... but one day the politicians will realise that we can't eat money

 

Well, as I see this issue...the earth is warming, that's a fact. It has warmed and cooled many many times in its history. But no one can say for sure what is causing it this time. Likely it's a combination of many factors. The most notable one being politics. : Anyway of course we need to cut down on pollution, whether or not it's causing global warming. The amount of pollution our society creates is absolutely ridiculous.

Now here's something to think about. I have read plenty of opinions on both sides of the issue, but this is something I haven't heard before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but I kind of liked the fact that someone took an opinion that was different from what you normally hear.

I read it a while ago so hopefully I remember it correctly: Apparently the past few, whatever it is, couple thousand years when the rise of civilization as we know it has occurred have been an unusually long warm stretch. I think more of the earth's history has been in ice ages than in warmer times. If the past few thousand years had been cold, civilization could not have occurred. Apparently however we are due for another ice age fairly soon (according to the patterns of geological warming and cooling), which would not be good news for us. But we have added just enough CO2 to the atmoshphere that it may prevent the ice age from happening. Too much CO2 in the atmosphere may contribute to warming, but if we hadn't added Any CO2 it might have been even worse news--we would plunge back into an ice age and civilization would be halted. So there are some who believe that "global warming" may actually be the lifesaver of civilization, at least provided we don't go over the top with emissions and warm up the planet too much.

Now of course that's assuming that our CO2 emissions actually have an effect on the atmosphere, which I personally consider possible but not proven. I just thought the idea of global warming being a good thing was an interesting new twist to the debate.

 

Money might make the world go 'round... but one day the politicians will realise that we can't eat money

yea.. probably on the day the world ends. their greed and corruption know no end and I think they rather enjoy playing the people for fools.

 

maybe we should panic and have the world's biggest barbeque - take care of those farting animals like the bovines that are out to destory us! the point here being that all panic does is destroy. Logic and truth with a TOTAL removal of politics is the way to go.

good post there Omorrokh.. and it illustrates my point that we don't have enough information to be so certain of our supreme intelligence in having figured out the universe, especially on an issue tainted by politics from day 1.

 

I don't wanna stop eating meat lol...do you guys think its possible that in the future there will be cars that runs water instead of gas? some guy was telling me about it at jack in the box one day.