Please, Our Haki (ebjd) Seems To Be Having Seizures! :(

Jenoli42

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Hey team.

Haki was not the first to greet us this morning, which is unusual. I found him hiding behind a plant. He came out for the high quality mixed flake breakfast, grabbed a flake but then seemed to struggle to stay upright & dropped it & went back to hiding. He tried to eat pellets but seemed lethargic & less interested. totally unlike his normal behavior.

Last night we fed the biweekly bloodworm meal. As well as a few omega one cichlid sinking pellets.

We feed the fish in his tank a large pinch of flakes every morning (gone in under 2 mins) & various stuff at night.

we've tried blanched veggies before but they never seem interested. end up scooping it out next day. happy to try again.

Here's the low down:

morning:
1 large pinch of: high quality green/fiber fakes, freeze dried worm, omega one colour enhance flakes.

eve: 1.5x jbl novo tab, 15 tiny omega one cichlid sinking pellets, 1.5 algae wafers broken up & frozen cichlid meat we try to feed to Haki & our firemouth by hand.

BUT! Our cichlids have been out-competed lately by the Odessa barbs who literally steal the meat from their mouths. so they've both been mostly eating the jbl novo tab. could this be part of the issue?

Haki (EBJD) & Luci (firemouth) have been in this tank a week. they were both quarantined for 5 wks. In their QT they ate at their leisure. but now there are 15 greedy Odessa Barbs to contend with at meal times.

72g Bowfront (~250L) params: 0,0,7.5. pH 7.2. temp 24-24.5ºC. established tank. diatom algae. fine silica sand substrate 50% & smooth black gravel other 50%.

stocking: 15 Odessa Barbs, 7 sterbai, 4 Apple/ mystery snails, 4 suckers, 1 EBJD, 1 firemouth.

Here's a video of him being uncharacteristically shy. his colour is good & no other signs of distress.


here's a video of what he's normally like... fast forward 32 seconds

 
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Jenoli42

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Full disclosure: yes I'm bumping my own post hoping for thoughts & ideas.

but also! could this be a symptom of our firemouth being more aggressive? it was following Haki around at feeding time last night & there were some signs of aggression... and Luci seems much more fearless today. . also. there's a small part of Haki's mouth that could have been bitten... can't tell clearly but it's possible...
 

Kristian Acevedo

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Sorry to hear about the issues mate

As I well know your tank is cycled and you’re always on top of that so we can most likely rule that out (i’m sure you’ve tested the water knowing you).

Is he having any stringy white poop? Does his swim bladder seem to be visibly bloated? Does he have any open wounds, or the likes?
 
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Jenoli42

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Kristian Acevedo said:
Sorry to hear about the issues mate

As I well know your tank is cycled and you’re always on top of that so we can most likely rule that out (i’m sure you’ve tested the water knowing you).

Is he having any stringy white poop? Does his swim bladder seem to be visibly bloated? Does he have any open wounds, or the likes?
thank you for replying!!

immediately checked all those symptoms this morning and several times today. no bloat. no open wound I can see but he's hiding so maybe the mouth thing? haven't seen any poo at all lolz... been stalking his backside which feels just creepy

(he's quite clean... only ever saw poo once after his first lot of bloodworms in QT 3 wks ago... and he was bloated then from gorging himself but it went away by the next morning... he got fasted that morning, the little pig.)

I hate that my problems are never straight forward, sorry.

he seems more active now. it's nearly dinner time & we just did our weekly water change. I'll update you on whether or not he eats. we're gonna try the tongs we use to feed our red eared snappers so we make sure he eats his cichlid frozen meat.

we are also gonna boil carrot and peas so they're on hand.

EDIT: is it possible he had the fish version of a tummy ache?

WAIT! the plot thickens!

I've spotted one of our smaller sterbai with what looks like a chunk torn out of its top back fin.

could Haki have decided to munch on it & it stabbed him with its spines?

alternatively, could the firemouth be feeling like tank boss & taking bites outta Haki & sterbai?

:emoji_thinking:

haven't witnessed anything like that and it's the weekend here so I've been obsessively watching this tank in between pwcs & kids sports
 

Kristian Acevedo

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Haki might very well be scared of your firemouth, or being territorial and doesn’t want to leave to eat. I would watch Haki, and be on the look out for anything that looks parasitic
 
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Jenoli42

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the good news is Haki ate normally last night & was back to his friendly curious self. we'll see how he is this morning. ..

Jenoli42 said:
the good news is Haki ate normally last night & was back to his friendly curious self. we'll see how he is this morning. ..
Update: he seems perfectly normal today. no odd swimming, no hiding. right out front greeting us as normal. eating normally.... we'll keep watching carefully as we know our stocking is aggressive & we've taken a risk. i hope he just had a bad bloodworm?
 

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Jenoli42 said:
Update: he seems perfectly normal today. no odd swimming, no hiding. right out front greeting us as normal. eating normally.... we'll keep watching carefully as we know our stocking is aggressive & we've taken a risk. i hope he just had a bad bloodworm?
Glad things are looking better! Haki might’ve just had a little bit of a tuff with your firemouth over night, and he was a tad skittish the next day
 
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Jenoli42

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Kristian Acevedo said:
Glad things are looking better! Haki might’ve just had a little bit of a tuff with your firemouth over night, and he was a tad skittish the next day
thank you so much. . we reckon that's the most likely. it was his swimming that freaked me out more than his hiding...
 
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Jenoli42

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team. I got up at 5am for work, had about 2 hours in the morning to check this forum & feed fish & test tanks... it's nearly 1030 at night now. I got home 1.5 hours ago. I'm exhausted & gonna go to bed but I'm afraid our favorite fish may be dead!

Haki didn't join the others at feeding time this morning. I saw him hiding in a fake plant, he came out when the firemouth went to the plant. ammonia & nitrite both dead zero so i thought he may simply be having issues with aggression & left for the rest of my work day.

so when I got home tonight, I checked on him straight away. because I knew I'd be home after dark, I left a light on in the room adjacent so its not pitch dark & i avoid shocking fish when i come home. I always switch on the room lights first then wait 5-10 mins to switch on any tank lights so I knows the fish are awake.

I switched on the room lights. he was right out in front waiting for me & food. yay... I turned the tank light on about 6 -8 mins later & he swam behind a decoration.

about 15 mins later, I held a piece of frozen cichlid food in my fingers for him to eat first. he did the normal thing of stalking my fingers & nibbling on my finger nail first (eyesight thing?). he took one nibble of the meat. .. and then appeared to have a seizure!

he twitched violently, swam UPSIDE DOWN for about 2 seconds & couldn't right himself. he then was vertical & went deathly pale lost all his gorgeous colour.

I grabbed a net so the others didn't try to eat him. I carefully scooped him & left it safely in the water, grabbed an extra breeding net & put him in.

his color started slowly returning. I put a small bit of the meat in with him, he looked up toward my fingers & immediately had another seizure-like reaction!

I removed the meat, switched off the tank lights & added stress coat to the tank. then i fed the test of the fish & watched him waiting to see if i could video the symptom. it didn't happen again. his color is better. here's an unhelpful video


everyone else in the tank is mostly normal. I say mostly because I saw the big female Odessa chasing the firemouth with a school of male Odessas behind her... which is odd. then again i fed less tonight than normal but this chasing was after I added stress coat.

I didn't retest ammonia & nitrite because I only tested this morning but I might add prime before bed & test in the morning.

Haki cost us $100 but he's worth $1000 to us! he's my youngest step daughter's fish & the absolute favorite for our whole family. I have cried a bit because I have no idea what's wrong.

you'll mostly all know the tank came with established filter media in January and we've only ever had blips of up to .25 ammonia as we stocked. ... but Haki has NEVER been exposed to ammonia or nitrite in our care & we quarantined him for 5 weeks before adding him just 9 days ago to this tank.
 

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I'd recommend putting Haki into quarantine, just incase something is wrong with him that could spread to the others. I've never dealt with seizures with fish before, so I might not be much help. I found this though... "Fish that have seizures are not likely to recover and live much longer after theseizures occur. But fortunately for you there are a few ways to help lesson the risk of them. Betta or fish seizures are similar to human ones as their body shakes uncontrollably, it is an absolutely terrifying thing to watch."
 
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Jenoli42

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FriarThomasIII said:
I'd recommend putting Haki into quarantine, just incase something is wrong with him that could spread to the others. I've never dealt with seizures with fish before, so I might not be much help. I found this though... "Fish that have seizures are not likely to recover and live much longer after theseizures occur. But fortunately for you there are a few ways to help lesson the risk of them. Betta or fish seizures are similar to human ones as their body shakes uncontrollably, it is an absolutely terrifying thing to watch."
thank you... that's kind of what happened when he was swimming upside down but less like the 2nd time? not really shaking... almost like he panics when he can't swim properly...??? maybe swim bladder? he goes almost catatonic for a cpl minutes after freaking out when he cant right himself?

I can QT him in the morning. I know i should tonight but I'm afraid I'll make a mistake with my kH buffers if I do it now when I'm tired & home alone... I've got the QT set up & running but it needs a wc for nitrates & needs me to test for ammonia etc cuz I've been adding fish flakes to keep bacteria going since the fish in it was added to our other tank on Friday.

thank you again
 

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Jenoli42 said:
thank you... that's kind of what happened when he was swimming upside down but less like the 2nd time? not really shaking... almost like he panics when he can't swim properly...??? maybe swim bladder? he goes almost catatonic for a cpl minutes after freaking out when he cant right himself?

I can QT him in the morning. I know i should tonight but I'm afraid I'll make a mistake with my kH buffers if I do it now when I'm tired & home alone... I've got the QT set up & running but it needs a wc for nitrates & needs me to test for ammonia etc cuz I've been adding fish flakes to keep bacteria going since the fish in it was added to our other tank on Friday.

thank you again
No problem, I'd recommend some little plants like anacharis to make him feel safer with it floating, keep the tank on the darker side to minimize stress and nitrates. I'm sorry your Haki isn't feeling great, and I truly wish you the best.

Also, just in case, here is a video I found of a fish having a seizure...
 

mattgirl

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Oh my goodness I have had company for the past few days and haven't had as much time as usual to check in. I am so sad to be reading this thread. I know you have given this little guy perfect care so I know what ever is happening is not because of anything you have done or not done.

I just have to assume that some fish like some humans are born not perfectly healthy and unfortunately it seems from what I am seeing here he must have had a hidden illness and it is just now showing up.

Kind of off topic but we once had a dog that started having seizures when she was about 2 years old. Sadly the seizures finally got so bad we had to have her put down. It was nothing we did that caused it just like it is nothing you have done or are doing that is causing this.

I am hoping for you and your families sake that it is a passing thing but if not you can rest assured that it is not your fault.
 
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Jenoli42

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FriarThomasIII said:
No problem, I'd recommend some little plants like anacharis to make him feel safer with it floating, keep the tank on the darker side to minimize stress and nitrates. I'm sorry your Haki isn't feeling great, and I truly wish you the best.

Also, just in case, here is a video I found of a fish having a seizure...
thank you but also that video is disturbing & helpful. how do they know that's a seizure i wonder... they can't hook an ekg up... ?

nevermind. that thankfully doesn't really look like what Haki had. he was frantic so his movements were three times as fast. and then he went vertical like he was exhausted and semi catatonic.

I think this one may be above all our heads? it's certainly above mine

thank you for the video. I've started turning on room lights slowly so i can check him

Mom2some said:
So sorry to hear this! I hope today is a calmer & healthier day!
me too. I had to drive 5 hours in a ridiculous storm that dumped so much rain on a particular stretch of "mountain" that I got delayed by an hour on the way home because of a massive slip. . So I was frayed already last night.

thanks for your message of support
 
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Jenoli42

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mattgirl said:
Oh my goodness I have had company for the past few days and haven't had as much time as usual to check in. I am so sad to be reading this thread. I know you have given this little guy perfect care so I know what ever is happening is not because of anything you have done or not done.

I just have to assume that some fish like some humans are born not perfectly healthy and unfortunately it seems from what I am seeing here he must have had a hidden illness and it is just now showing up.

Kind of off topic but we once had a dog that started having seizures when she was about 2 years old. Sadly the seizures finally got so bad we had to have her put down. It was nothing we did that caused it just like it is nothing you have done or are doing that is causing this.
www
I am hoping for you and your families sake that it is a passing thing but if not you can rest assured that it is not your fault.
yay your post helped but Haki is not good... he tried to eat. here's how that went:


it's whenever her tries to move normally... like swimming away or especially eating.

here's my thinking this morning:

- his QT doesn't have tank lights. his new tank does. maybe he's the fish version of epileptic ?
- I did a pwc on the weekend - his first in that tank. added some sand because the sterbai love digging down to the glass. substrate in general is new to him & this tank has much higher gH & nutrient load than his QT. we acclimated him for over 2 hours

I cried filming team....
 
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Jenoli42

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Mom2some said:
Oh baby fish. So sorry to see this. Over my head. Big guns... @TexasDomer? @Coradee?
yes, i think it's only a few months old...possibly as young as 10-12 weeks...we've had him for the last 6 weeks.

EDIT: i'm super upset about this.... i can't even...
 

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Jenoli42 said:
yes, i think it's only a few months old...possibly as young as 10-12 weeks...we've had him for the last 6 weeks.

EDIT: i'm super upset about this.... i can't even...
Oh sweetie I am so sorry to hear and see this. I truly am hurting for you. It is just so heartbreaking and even more so when you know you are doing everything right and something like this happens.

I wish I knew something you could do for him but like you I am at a total loss.
 
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Jenoli42

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Ok people! Haki is alive!!! let's figure this out please?

he's still swimming slightly crooked but he ate two pellets & didn't have a seizure. he came up to me & followed my movements.

ideas?!
 
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