Please help with goldfish!

Hello, my partner and I recently started up a freshwater tank. I did a lot of research before starting it and I feel like I haven't done anything wrong, but I'm no expert. We bought two fish originally, one from Petco and one from Petsmart. They were a fantail goldfish and a black moor goldfish. The black moor passed after a few days of having him. He started acting sick so we think he may have just been sick, as some other fish at petsmart seemed sick now that we thought of it. Chunky (the fantail) never acted sick like he did. We waited a few days & then introduced another fish, an Oranda goldfish. She acted very healthy at Petsmart (a different location than where we got the sick black moor) and acted well the first day or two of having her, Chunky & her were always beside eachother and chunky would stay next to her and slightly harass her? Not in an aggressive way, it looked like some videos I saw of fish mating but I'm not sure. Everything was fine and I tested the water often, we have a filter, and everything to make the water safe. Chunky still seems to be extremely healthy, he's constantly swimming, doesn't stay at the top, etc. Could this be something I'm doing wrong or something I can do to prevent another fish from passing? This is the first time I've ever had an aquarium so I know I'm not gonna get everything right. I just want to make sure the fish stay healthy and alive. Also, I know buying from petstores is wrong now and I won't be buying from one again if I am to get another fish. The pet stores around where I live have always been reliable when I've bought different animals from them before and I never had any sick animals from them so I thought their fish would be healthy & a good place to buy from but I was wrong. Thank you for reading and I would appreciate any help I can get

 

First off, we need to know a bit more detail. Could you please fill out this form?



What is the water volume of the tank?

How long has the tank been running?


What is the water temperature?

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?

How much of the water do you change?

What do you use to treat your water?

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?

What do you use to test the water?

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?

How much do you feed your fish?

What brand of food do you feed your fish?

Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?

Have you started any treatment for the illness?

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

 

First off, we need to know a bit more detail. Could you please fill out this form?



What is the water volume of the tank?

How long has the tank been running?


What is the water temperature?

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?

How much of the water do you change?

What do you use to treat your water?

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?

What do you use to test the water?

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?

How much do you feed your fish?

What brand of food do you feed your fish?

Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?

Have you started any treatment for the illness?

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

Okay, I'll do my best to answer these as specifically as I can. Please bare with me as I am very new to this.
The aquarium is a 10 gallon. It's been running for about 2 weeks now. The temperature is 68 degrees. At the moment, there is only one fantail goldfish. So far since having the tank, I've done two partial changes. To treat my water, I use Tetra AquaSafe plus, Tetra water clarifier and Tetra EasyBalance. About the parameters, at the moment I only have some tetra test strips to test the water at the moment, so I can't give an exact answer but it looks like the nitrate is 0, nitrite seems to be .5, hardness seems to be about 75-150, alkalinity is about 120, pH seems to be 6.8-7.2. I feed the fish two small feedings every day, one at morning and one at night. I feed them Tetra fish flakes and Tetra bloodworms. The bloodworms are freeze dried. I had the first fish, the black moor, for about a week before it passed. We had the Oranda for about 2-3 days before she passed. I noticed the black moor would stay still a bit and just acted very lazy and sick. The newer one, the oranda seemed to be fine at the pet store and even acted fine the first day, but then started moving slower and hiding in a house we have and barely coming out, she would also turn on her side right before she passed. Let me know if you need any further information and I apologize for not being able to give the most accurate information.

 

Okay, I'll do my best to answer these as specifically as I can. Please bare with me as I am very new to this.
The aquarium is a 10 gallon. It's been running for about 2 weeks now. The temperature is 68 degrees. At the moment, there is only one fantail goldfish. So far since having the tank, I've done two partial changes. To treat my water, I use Tetra AquaSafe plus, Tetra water clarifier and Tetra EasyBalance. About the parameters, at the moment I only have some tetra test strips to test the water at the moment, so I can't give an exact answer but it looks like the nitrate is 0, nitrite seems to be .5, hardness seems to be about 75-150, alkalinity is about 120, pH seems to be 6.8-7.2. I feed the fish two small feedings every day, one at morning and one at night. I feed them Tetra fish flakes and Tetra bloodworms. The bloodworms are freeze dried. I had the first fish, the black moor, for about a week before it passed. We had the Oranda for about 2-3 days before she passed. I noticed the black moor would stay still a bit and just acted very lazy and sick. The newer one, the oranda seemed to be fine at the pet store and even acted fine the first day, but then started moving slower and hiding in a house we have and barely coming out, she would also turn on her side right before she passed. Let me know if you need any further information and I apologize for not being able to give the most accurate information.

So, from what I see there are two factors coming into play here. First, the 10 gallon is too small for even one of the goldfish species you have (unless they are tiny right now). You will want a 29 gallon or larger long term (goldfish people correct me if needed). This is because goldfish produce lots of waste, which quickly builds up in a small aquarium and they can become stunted.

The second thing is your tank isn’t cycled (presence of nitrite one the water). Combining this with the high waste output and concentration in a small tank likely resulted in the deaths. Your profile says that you know about the nitrogen cycle, but I posted a diagram below to explain it further. Usually it takes around three weeks to cycle a tank from scratch.

For now, you need to do 50% water changes daily or every other day and get a larger tank as soon as possible. I also recommend using Seachem prime as your water conditioner because it will also temporarily detoxify ammonia, which will help protect your fish while the tank cycles.

 

So, from what I see there are two factors coming into play here. First, the 10 gallon is too small for even one of the goldfish species you have (unless they are tiny right now). You will want a 29 gallon or larger long term (goldfish people correct me if needed). This is because goldfish produce lots of waste, which quickly builds up in a small aquarium and they can become stunted.

The second thing is your tank isn’t cycled (presence of nitrite one the water). Combining this with the high waste output and concentration in a small tank likely resulted in the deaths. Your profile says that you know about the nitrogen cycle, but I posted a diagram below to explain it further. Usually it takes around three weeks to cycle a tank from scratch.

Seems correct except one thing, with goldfish I doubt that what killed one was that the tank was not cycled, when I first got goldfish I didn’t know about cycling and I always did 100% water changes in a 10 Gallon (STRONGLY DONT RECOMMEND) for about three years, I have since then upgraded but I just wanted to point out that it can be done

 

No mention of the ammonia reading....I am sure it is too high , not cycled and messy goldfish in too small of a tank....

 

Thanks guys. The reason I am using the 10 gallon is because it was my partners and he kept goldfish in it successfully (they lived for years and only passed because his mother changed it one day and didn't condition the water. I have a 20 gallon aquarium & a 55 gallon, but they are currently homes to hamsters so I can't use them. I will eventually upgrade it, but for now since chunky is tiny, would the 10 gallon be okay? We are probably not gonna get another goldfish, especially not until we have a bigger tank but I mean, he's maybe an inch. He's very small. Also, I didn't know of cycling prior because I admit I should have educated myself further, I will do half changes everyday, how long should I do that for? Thank you for not judging me and just trying to help

 

HI there! Sorry to hear about this, starting a fish tank an be hard. Goldfish need at least 20 gallon for the first fish and 10 gallon for every goldfish you add (this only applies for the fancy goldfish, comets/commons need much larger). However I’d prefer 20 for the first fish and 20 for every fish you add. They are incredibly dirty fish and produce a lot of waste, so 2 filters is always a good idea with a goldfish tank. I would do a 40% water change 2x a week for goldfish, keeps that waste in check. Your tank is not cycled so adding in 2 goldfish likely caused high ammonia and killed the fish. Goldfish can get very large, fancies can get 5, maybe 7 inches. Comets and commons can get up to a foot long. Goldfish can also live a very long time, fancy goldfish can live 10+ years with good care. I would recommend getting a much larger tank, 40-55g. Or finding a new home for your goldfish. Then if you are still interested in cooler water fish, you can get a nice school of white cloud minnows I’m a 10g. If you add a heater you can look into a much larger variety of tropical fish (I suggest a betta !).

 

Also, we are thinking of going tomorrow to get a bubbler, some ghost shrimp and a moss ball. Would that be a good idea?

HI there! Sorry to hear about this, starting a fish tank an be hard. Goldfish need at least 20 gallon for the first fish and 10 gallon for every goldfish you add (this only applies for the fancy goldfish, comets/commons need much larger). However I’d prefer 20 for the first fish and 20 for every fish you add. They are incredibly dirty fish and produce a lot of waste, so 2 filters is always a good idea with a goldfish tank. I would do a 40% water change 2x a week for goldfish, keeps that waste in check. Your tank is not cycled so adding in 2 goldfish likely caused high ammonia and killed the fish. Goldfish can get very large, fancies can get 5, maybe 7 inches. Comets and commons can get up to a foot long. Goldfish can also live a very long time, fancy goldfish can live 10+ years with good care. I would recommend getting a much larger tank, 40-55 gallon. Or finding a new home for your goldfish. Then if you are still interested in cooler water fish, you can get a nice school of white cloud minnows I’m a 10 gallon. If you add a heater you can look into a much larger variety of tropical fish (I suggest a betta !).

Rehoming is not an option, I am willing to do whatever it takes to have Chunky be healthy and happy with us. I am going to upgrade, but due to Christmas just passing, we currently don't have the money to buy a new tank as of now, but we will soon. Since he is very small, I'm hoping he will be okay in the 10 gallon until then. Thank you so much for the advice though! I will definitely follow it. And just wondering, once I do upgrade to a bigger tank, what species of tropical fish can stay in a 10 gallon? Just bettas and minnows? Thanks again.

 

Also, we are thinking of going tomorrow to get a bubbler, some ghost shrimp and a moss ball. Would that be a good idea?

No. You should not add more living creatures until the tank is cycled. You also need to get something to test ammonia. Because your strips clearly do not.

Petco has the dollar per gallon sale going on for what it's worth. And I've gotten several large used tanks for very cheap on craigslist or Facebook marketplace. A few even free. Upgrading can be done on a budget.

 

We were all where you are when we first got into this hobby. I am glad you came to us. We will try our best to help you. Please take a moment to read this and once you have if you have more questions Please just ask.

 

Rehoming is not an option, I am willing to do whatever it takes to have Chunky be healthy and happy with us. I am going to upgrade, but due to Christmas just passing, we currently don't have the money to buy a new tank as of now, but we will soon. Since he is very small, I'm hoping he will be okay in the 10 gallon until then. Thank you so much for the advice though! I will definitely follow it. And just wondering, once I do upgrade to a bigger tank, what species of tropical fish can stay in a 10 gallon? Just bettas and minnows? Thanks again.

Lovely to hear you will be upgrading! Goldfish are awesome fish. You can get a standard 55 gallon at petco/petsmart, petco is selling them for 70$ right now! Usually 140$, so if it is in your budget I would pick one up and save up for the rest of the supplies. Or wait for their next $/gallon sale, but I am not sure when that will be. You could have 3 fancy goldfish in a 55g. They will grow into it very nicely. You can probably find 2 good filters at petsmart, price match on chewy! You will save big time. I have found petco to not be so lenient on price matching, but their dollar/gallon sale is amazing. Just some tips because I know this hobby is very expensive. He will be okay in the 10 for now, I am assuming he is like the size of a golfball or smaller? They usually sell goldfish pretty small at first. Just do 40% water changes 2x a week for now. Some other options for a 10 gallon tropical tank would be chilI rasboras (10-12), ember tetras (10-12), pygmy cory catfish (8), celestial pearl danios (8), a small school of neon tetras (7), guppies (6-7), shrimp tank (depending on the shrimp, but you could do a dozen with most species). That is what I could think of off the top of my head, the numbers is how many I would be comfortable putting in. I still love bettas tho, they will have the most personality. You an also mix a more laid back betta with the ember tetras or chilI rasboras and shrimp. You would just have to cut the school size of the embers and chilis down to 6-7.

Also, we are thinking of going tomorrow to get a bubbler, some ghost shrimp and a moss ball. Would that be a good idea?

No goldfish are cold water fish, they are actually in the carp family. Ghost shrimp are tropical, they prefer water around 78-80 degrees. Not compatible with goldfish. I would not add anything to the tank. Goldfish are also little piggies and like eat anything, so it might nibble and pick on the moss ball. Another thing, try to limit feeding your goldfish 1x every other day. This will prevent bloat which they can be prone to. They do not need to eat that often because they are cold water fish (slow metabolism) and they will produce so much unnecessary waste with 2x daily feeding. No fish needs to eat everyday, especially messy fish like goldfish. Hope this helps!

 

I'd do more than 2 water changes per week for a fish in cycle with a goldfish in a 10g. Id do daily or every other day at the least. And use seachem prime as the dechlorinator since it can detoxify ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours.

 

1. Since it's that small you don't need to be in a big hurry. I don't claim to be an expert, but if you keep an eye on water parameters and do water changes as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrite totals below 1.0 ppm it will be fine until it's 3" or so.
2. Check those parameters daily and do the water changes as I mentioned above until you can tell that they're going down on their own. I can't give you exact numbers on that part but you'll get a feel for it.
3. While live plants help with using up ammonia and nitrates, goldfish eat many plants. I don't know if they'll eat moss balls.
4. There's a good chance the goldfish will at least try to eat the shrimp, but ghost shrimp are cheap, so if it does at least you won't be out of much money. Also, shrimp like live plants to hide in, so that could be a problem. Hopefully someone can recommend a plant or two that goldfish don't like.

 

Okay. I only asked about the shrimp & moss ball because I saw in a youtube video someone suggested them, but now I will not get them. Also, I am aware of the $/gallon sale, that's how I got my current 55 gallon, and I will take advantage of that sale or craigslist when we have the money, but at the moment we simply do not. And yes, he is smaller than a golf ball. He's not even the length of a canned green bean. Thank you to all who are being nonjudgemental, because people tend to forget that they were just as clueless as I am at the beginning haha. I will get some seachem prime asap and do the suggested water changes. But again thank you so much. I care very much for animals, hence why I have a single hamster living in a 55 gallon long aquarium haha. I really do just want the best for my fish!

 

1. Since it's that small you don't need to be in a big hurry. I don't claim to be an expert, but if you keep an eye on water parameters and do water changes as needed to keep the ammonia and nitrite totals below 0.1 ppm it will be fine until it's 3" or so

I think you mean 1.0ppm ammonia. I don't think 0.1 would even register in the test kit. .25 is the lowest it goes before 0.

Also "up to 1.0ppm" is only safe if you are using prime to detoxify the ammonia because it can detoxify up to 1.0ppm. Otherwise 1.0ppm can stress out the fish. I'm going to guess the current ammonia is at least that high. Causing the death of the other fish.

And yes salemkl we have all been there and no judgment here.

 

Also, I will slow the feeding to every other day as suggested. When I got the fish, the pet store worker suggested twice daily, and online I saw an article saying to do small feedings 2-3x daily, but I will now lower it. Thank you. I currently have a 10 gallon filter on it, do you think that is enough? Or should I get a bigger one/another one? I will eventually have to get a bigger one when I upgrade, but it could be a month or two before then so I want to make this 10 gallon work the best I can for him until then. I'm open to any other suggestions on how to make the best out of a 10 gallon for him. Thank you

 

Okay. I only asked about the shrimp & moss ball because I saw in a youtube video someone suggested them, but now I will not get them. Also, I am aware of the $/gallon sale, that's how I got my current 55 gallon, and I will take advantage of that sale or craigslist when we have the money, but at the moment we simply do not. And yes, he is smaller than a golf ball. He's not even the length of a canned green bean. Thank you to all who are being nonjudgemental, because people tend to forget that they were just as clueless as I am at the beginning haha. I will get some seachem prime asap and do the suggested water changes. But again thank you so much. I care very much for animals, hence why I have a single hamster living in a 55 gallon long aquarium haha. I really do just want the best for my fish!

Ooh lucky hamster, mine are only in 40 gallon haha! Don't be hard on yourself, we have all made mistakes that we look back on and cringe. In case you are thinking of it, I wouldn't just let him grow out in that tank, aka waiting until he is 3 inches+. You don't want your goldfish to develop that hormone that hinges their growth. Any fish meant to be the size of a goldfish should not be kept in a 10 gallon longer than needed, stunting their growth in anyway is incredibly dangerous and can have bad effects down the line. Not trying to stress you! It will be a while until he is that big anyways, but I would treat this tank as a holding tank for now (not a grow out tank). Just upgrade asap

 

I think you mean 1.0ppm ammonia. I don't think 0.1 would even register in the test kit. .25 is the lowest it goes before 0.

Also "up to 1.0ppm" is only safe if you are using prime to detoxify the ammonia because it can detoxify up to 1.0ppm. Otherwise 1.0ppm can stress out the fish. I'm going to guess the current ammonia is at least that high. Causing the death of the other fish.

And yes salemkl we have all been there and no judgment here.

I see. Thank you so much. I know this may seem random, but I struggle with anxiety & fear of judgment very bad and interacting/asking for help can be very hard for me, but I had to put it aside for the wellbeing of my fish and I really appreciate everyone working with me on this and not just being like "Actually you're abusing your fish and you're terrible" haha. Thank you all very much for your kindness

Ooh lucky hamster, mine are only in 40 gallon haha! Don't be hard on yourself, we have all made mistakes that we look back on and cringe. In case you are thinking of it, I wouldn't just let him grow out in that tank, aka waiting until he is 3 inches+. You don't want your goldfish to develop that hormone that hinges their growth. Any fish meant to be the size of a goldfish should not be kept in a 10 gallon longer than needed, stunting their growth in anyway is incredibly dangerous and can have bad effects down the line. Not trying to stress you! It will be a while until he is that big anyways, but I would treat this tank as a holding tank for now (not a grow out tank). Just upgrade asap

Oh I know! If it was up to me and I had the money and resources right now, I'd be at the pet store buying him the biggest aquarium. I'm definitely seeing this as more of a college dorm for him, not a house with a mortgage! And I will have him in a bigger tank as soon as I can.

 

Also, I will slow the feeding to every other day as suggested. When I got the fish, the pet store worker suggested twice daily, and online I saw an article saying to do small feedings 2-3x daily, but I will now lower it. Thank you. I currently have a 10 gallon filter on it, do you think that is enough? Or should I get a bigger one/another one? I will eventually have to get a bigger one when I upgrade, but it could be a month or two before then so I want to make this 10 gallon work the best I can for him until then. I'm open to any other suggestions on how to make the best out of a 10 gallon for him. Thank you

He will be okay for a month or two. People still like to recommend over feeding that much and I cannot understand why. I think it's either outdated info people still spread or they are taking it off the back of fish food labels. If you look at any fish food label they encourage a lot of feeding. My guess is so you go through the product faster and have to buy more. Who knows. You can also limit the blood worms and instead feed a boiled and skinned pea in replacement of his normal food once a week or so as a treat. This will make sure he is pooping well and they seem to enjoy peas lol. Do peas right before a water change because it can be messy.

 

Honestly, I'd feed a maximum of once per day. Maybe even every other day until the tank is cycled. Less waste (uneaten food and poop) the easier it will be to keep the water from getting out of control during the cycling process.

My fish all get fed once a day personally.

 

I think you mean 1.0ppm ammonia. I don't think 0.1 would even register in the test kit. .25 is the lowest it goes before 0.

Also "up to 1.0ppm" is only safe if you are using prime to detoxify the ammonia because it can detoxify up to 1.0ppm. Otherwise 1.0ppm can stress out the fish. I'm going to guess the current ammonia is at least that high. Causing the death of the other fish.

And yes salemkl we have all been there and no judgment here.

I corrected it almost immediately after posting, and thanks for the clarification and additional information..

 

I corrected it almost immediately after posting, and thanks for the clarification and additional information..

Oh my bad. I should've given you a minute. Lol

 

Seems correct except one thing, with goldfish I doubt that what killed one was that the tank was not cycled, when I first got goldfish I didn’t know about cycling and I always did 100% water changes in a 10 Gallon (STRONGLY DONT RECOMMEND) for about three years, I have since then upgraded but I just wanted to point out that it can be done

Thanks for the insight!