Please Help...fish Dying

Hello,

55 gallon tank
Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate: less than 5ppm
PH 7.4

Stock:
6 Panda Cories
3 Golden Dojo Loaches
3 Male Swordtails
1 Dwarf Gourami
15 Celestial Pearl Danios
1 Albino Bushynose Pleco
2 Spotted Pictus Catfish
2 Bolivian Rams
6 Raspbora Het

This is a brand new cycled tank. About a week ago I noticed my Dwarf Gourami laying on it's side. I googled "Dwarf Gourami on side" and the first 15 pages to come up were talking about Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus. Being new to the hobby, I likely overreacted and assumed he would infect my entire tank.

I ended up taking him back to the LFS, which apparently put him back in their regular stock. More on that a little later.

The next day, two of my swordtails had died. No warning, no signs of disease, just not alive when I came home from work.

In the meantime, again, I'm new to the hobby, and didn't realize how easy it would be for celestial pearls to get caught in the filter. I've lost 6 or 7 of them to that, which is now covered by a sponge.

Today, I came home from work and one of my loaches is dead. Again, floating at the bottom of the tank, no signs of illness.

I've been feeding the fish once a day, a simple pinch of fast sinking food. All the fish seem to be eating, with the exception of the pleco, who is eating the algae wafers I am dropping in.

The Dwarf Gourami that I assumed was sick is doing fine at the LFS. At least according to my LFS. I am not spraying any chemicals near the tank (or at all) and am not a smoker. I have two cats who do not have access to the tank. I am at a complete and utter loss as to what could be happening, but I'm very quickly becoming dejected with the idea of having a fish tank. Please...help if you can.

 

How did you cycle the tank? How much ammonia was it processing before you added fish if you did a fishless cycle? Can you please provide the ammonia and nitrite readings?

 

Aquaphobia: Ammonia and Nitrite readings are above.

I cycled fishless, dosing ammonia. It was processing 6.25 ml in 24 hours.

 

Check again. Ammonia and nitrites aren't listed.

By the way, are you aware that you're EXTREMELY over stocked? The three dojo loaches alone are enough to put your tank at max capacity. I think your fish are dying from poor housing conditions. And what is the temperature of your tank? Dojo loaches need cold water, while the dwarf gourami need higher temperatures. Most of these fish are poor tank mates. Bolivian Rams need to be housed in groups of 6 or more. And your pictus catfish need larger tanks.

 

Are you using any glutaraldehyde-containing products such as:

• Easy Life Easy Carbo
• Seachem Flourish Excel
• API CO2 Booster
• Azoo Carbon Plus
• Cidex
• Metricide?

 

Tell me what you did to cycle the tank.

 

@paradise: 0 and 0. Not sure why they aren't displaying above, sorry about that.

I am certainly NOT at max capacity. I may be some day in the future, but these fish are all very tiny. The largest fish in my tank is my Dwarf Gourami, and he clocks in at a whopping 2.5".

As for them being poor tank mates? This tank setup was suggested by people on this forum.

As for temp: I'm running 74. Which is the exact same temperature my LFS runs, and all of their fish are doing fine. I understand that some fish do better in warmer water, and some in colder...but I can say with certainty that the same fish kept at 74 here are kept at 74 at my LFS, and are all doing great there.

As for chemicals: I am adding nothing extra to my tank currently.

 

Tell me what you did to cycle the tank.

You said you were new to the hobby, how long has the tank been set up for?
Also with the previous comment, how did you cycle the tank?
I would agree is close to max capacity. I used to have 3 dwarf gouramies and 1 passed away, kinda doing the same thing. Laying on its side, inactive. My other two are just fine, I think they have a lot of problems off the bat.
1. when did you put all the fish in?
2. Did you put them in all at once?
3. if you didn't, how far apart did you put the fish in?
4. What filtration are you using?

 

Even if it is cycled, if you put all your fish in at once, it can cause a minI cycle and restart itself. Or the bacteria was sufficient for the cycle but with the new fish it is only 40 or 60 percent of what is needed

 

You said you were new to the hobby, how long has the tank been set up for?
Also with the previous comment, how did you cycle the tank?
I would agree is close to max capacity. I used to have 3 dwarf gouramies and 1 passed away, kinda doing the same thing. Laying on its side, inactive. My other two are just fine, I think they have a lot of problems off the bat.
1. when did you put all the fish in?
2. Did you put them in all at once?
3. if you didn't, how far apart did you put the fish in?
4. What filtration are you using?

Paulo: "Close to max capacity" is what I've been led to believe...I have no intent on adding more fish, I went for a full stock from the beginning.

Tank has been set up, cycled, for about a week. I dosed 6.25 ml of ammonia daily until it could process 6.25ml in a 24 hour span (4ppm ammonia down to 0, 0,) overnight.

At that point, I waited 48 hours before adding fish, and added half of my stock. I then waited a week and added the second half...testing my water daily, and completing a 25% water change on the weekends. I've done this WC 2 times now. I'm currently using 2 filters rated for 55 gallon tanks.

 

I don't usually use Aqadvisor, but I did just now. Even with juvenile sizes, your tank is over stocked by 155%. And this is with the two filters. And even if it wasn't, you said it yourself that one day it will be. So why are you planning to over stock from the beginning?

What test kit do you use? If you added ammonia only one week before adding your fish, I can hardly believe that your tank is cycled by now. Your tank needs at least 2 weeks to cycle with Seachem Stability, but you said it yourself you haven't added any chemicals so it'll take closer to 1 mouth. And by no chemicals, I'm sure you're still using a dechlorinator at least, right?

Eventually your Bolivian Rams will prey on your danios, either getting eaten or chased to death. And if the rams breed, they'll attack everyone else in the tank.

You asked for help on what you're doing wrong, but I don't think you're willing to acknowledge what it is. Your fish may be able to physically live together, but none of them will be truly happy. I suggest you to rehome several of your fishes to a different tank. Return most of them before more of them die. But in the end, it's your choice and those fish are at your mercy.

 

Paulo: "Close to max capacity" is what I've been led to believe...I have no intent on adding more fish, I went for a full stock from the beginning.

The tank has been set up, cycled, for about a week. I dosed 6.25 ml of ammonia daily until it could process 6.25ml in a 24-hour span (4ppm ammonia down to 0, 0,) overnight.

At that point, I waited 48 hours before adding fish and added half of my stock. I then waited a week and added the second half...testing my water daily, and completing a 25% water change on the weekends. I've done this WC 2 times now. I'm currently using 2 filters rated for 55-gallon tanks.

I'm not sure what other tips or help I can give you filtration is sufficient, possibly only waiting a week was not long enough. I use filtered media on my tanks so when I start a new one it will automatically start off with filtered media. Speeding up the whole process. I keep all my chemicals to a minimum the only ones I use being prime. The only other one I use is Stress Zyme+ in the beginning just to get things started.
The only thing I can think of again is maybe removing some of the fish and creating 2 tanks (using a new 10gal garbage can works), then slowly adding them into the 55 gal. Doing that just to slowly build up the bio load in the tank instead of shocking it with a huge amount of fish.
Otherwise, I wish you the best and that no more of your fish pass.

 

You guys. While a lot of these questions are valid, it's kinda starting to sound hostile. OP has said the tank has been cycled for a week, not that it was cycling for a week. 4ppm is a large amount of ammonia to process, and it sounds like he/she has been testing, doing water changes, the tank parameters seem cycled, and the filtration seems adequate. As far as the stocking, temperature, and compatibility, I'm not going to speak to that, except to just gently point out that just because a fish is kept at a certain temp at a fish store doesn't mean that it should be kept at that temp for its whole life since it might be at the cold end or hot end of what it can tolerate, which can lead to stress which leads to lowered immunity and disease, or best case scenario have a healthy but shortened lifespan. Kinda why fish stores can get away with overcrowding - the fish are only meant to be there temporarily. Again, not trying to pile on you, just an observation and opinion. Perhaps TexasDomer or Anders247 could weigh in on the stockkng. If there are stocking issues, they can be addressed and fixed. If there aren't, then we can lay that to rest and go on to other variables to figure out why the fish are dying.

 

The only pressing issue I see with the stocking are the pictus catfish, which should be kept in a larger group and in a larger tank. They will probably eat the CPDs when they get bigger.

 

If your tank is overstocked that doesn't appear to be the cause of the fish dieoff. Overstocking leads to a rise in ammo and nitrates if your filter or water change schedule can't keep up with the fish waste. Also intimidation and bulling can happen but the result is usually fish wasting away over time before dying. Are you checking your water params or is the store? Recheck daily to be sure nothing is changing. Maybe check store water ph against yours, a big diff can shock the fish and some don't recover. You use a dechlorinator for adding water, right? Maybe check water hardness if extreme at either end could be rough on fish. I'm grasping at straws as you water params seem correct. I wouldn't add more fish unless you can stop the dieoff. Any visible signs of fish acting strange, scratching against rocks, redness around gills or white spots, stringy poo? Give a good visual inspection. Good luck you'll get through this.

 

@jpm: Water is being tested by me, I have an API kit. I've also had the store test it just in case my kit was bad, it doesn't appear that's the case. Dechlorinator being added correctly. No bullying that I can see. No scratching, redness, or white spots, BUT...I did notice stringy poop on the Dwarf Gourami, as well as the swordtail that died tonight...

 

@jpm: Water is being tested by me, I have an API kit. I've also had the store test it just in case my kit was bad, it doesn't appear that's the case. Dechlorinator being added correctly. No bullying that I can see. No scratching, redness, or white spots, BUT...I did notice stringy poop on the Dwarf Gourami, as well as the swordtail that died tonight...

What color was the poop? White, clear, brown?

 

white

 

@jpm: Water is being tested by me, I have an API kit. I've also had the store test it just in case my kit was bad, it doesn't appear that's the case. Dechlorinator being added correctly. No bullying that I can see. No scratching, redness, or white spots, BUT...I did notice stringy poop on the Dwarf Gourami, as well as the swordtail that died tonight...

Make sure there's no worms coming out with poop.

 

I'm fairly confident there aren't...but if there are, where might they have come from?

 

I'm fairly confident there aren't...but if there are, where might they have come from?

Most certainly from a fish in the store, they spread and are very hard to stop. Maybe the fish store can do a minI autopsy on the fish and the poop to be sure [if there a really good store]. If you have access to a microscope maybe you can check the dead fish/poop. Maybe a good jewelers loop would work. Good luck.

 

Racing1113 is right. I guess I just got a little frustrated as I personally feel for every dojo loach and CPDs as my own (as I've kept them and love them).

KenandAna, sorry for being toxic. But still, please house your CPDs to another tank or remove the fishes that may be a threat to them.

 

I don't mind rehousing the pictus, as they were late additions to help with algae cleaning anyway.

That said, after reading everyones comments, I just don't think overcrowding is the issue, at least at the moment. Ill take a closer look at my stock in general, but Ill still need to figure out what's going on now. Been watching the poop since yesterday, and I'm not noticing anything abnormal.

Water parameters holding up, temp steady at 74. Any other things to keep watch for?

 

If over stocking isn't a problem now then it definitely will be in the future. Also with your stocking so high you should be doing 75% water change every week or two 50% water changes biweekly to provide healthy conditions. Other than that, just keep your eye out for any spikes, rehome some fish, and I think you'll be fine.

 

If over stocking isn't a problem now then it definitely will be in the future. Also with your stocking so high you should be doing 75% water change every week or two 50% water changes biweekly to provide healthy conditions. Other than that, just keep your eye out for any spikes, rehome some fish, and I think you'll be fine.

Don't really agree with this. If he's checking his water params and nitrates are under control why would do a 75% water change? Also hope op did not lose any more fish today.

 

I don't mind rehousing the pictus, as they were late additions to help with algae cleaning anyway.

That said, after reading everyones comments, I just don't think overcrowding is the issue, at least at the moment. Ill take a closer look at my stock in general, but Ill still need to figure out what's going on now. Been watching the poop since yesterday, and I'm not noticing anything abnormal.

Water parameters holding up, temp steady at 74. Any other things to keep watch for?

White feces can indicate a parasite infection or a bacterial infection/.

Have all these deaths occurred in one week?
No other symptoms than white feces?

 

White poor is a sure sign of intestinal parasites. As said above, the tank is overstocked. I would start by returning the Pictus. The CPDs will likely also become prey.

 

UPDATE:

One Bolivian Ram is now dead. As are two of the Raspbora Hets. And one panda cory

I can now say with complete confidence that overcrowding is not the issue. Not given how many have now died.

Still no symptoms, except with the ram. I watched the ram swimming in circles towards the bottom of the tank. He would then turn on his side until disturbed. He died about 30 minutes later.

My water parameters are still perfect according to API test, AND LFS test. CPD's don't seem to be being affected (yet) and neither do the pictus catfish. That said, they could die tomorrow at this rate, as nothing gave any real warning signs.

I've kinda accepted I'm going to lose this stock, but I really want to know what is happening so I can avoid it in the future...

 

It could be a virus. If it is I don't think there's a cure.

Smaller stocking, proper quarantine, and reliable fish source would likely be more successful next time.

Just wanted to post this again.
There's two ways to love. One person may say, "I love fish!" As they care for, provide for, and give everything they can for their beloved pet fish. Another can say, "I love fish!" As they sit down in front of a warm dish for a meal. I feel like more people should learn to love by giving, instead of what they can get from it. Do what's best for them, not what you want out of them.
I think I'll stop now before I get any more flustered. Good luck.

 

It could be a virus. If it is I don't think there's a cure.

Smaller stocking, proper quarantine, and reliable fish source would likely be more successful next time.
Yeah, a given.... it goes without saying and has no solution to the issue at hand.

Just wanted to post this again.
There's two ways to love. One person may say, "I love fish!" As they care for, provide for, and give everything they can for their beloved pet fish. Another can say, "I love fish!" As they sit down in front of a warm dish for a meal. I feel like more people should learn to love by giving, instead of what they can get from it. Do what's best for them, not what you want out of them.
Deep, but again worthless to the issue at hand.
Hydrogen peroxide to treat fish with internal bacteria in aquarium? Where did that come from?

I think I'll stop now before I get any more flustered. Good luck.

 

@Paradise: You are not better than me. You may be better at taking care of fish, but that does not give you the right to be condescending or hostile. I am EXTREMELY new to this hobby. I am trying my best to be a good fishkeeper, FOR MY FISH, but there are a lot of things to learn. So I come on here for help. You are not the first person to be rude to new people asking for help here...sadly, it's seems it's the norm, not the exception.

You, and others would do well to remember that this forum is also a place people come to get information, and instead of berating, or attacking because someone made a mistake, you can educate and inform. I have thick skin, so I came back to ask for help again, but many won't. And those that don't never learn, and continue to make the same mistakes, or worse, lose interest in the hobby.

On the topic: My stock was suggested by someone on THESE forums. Someone that others said was well respected. I made a few slight alterations (such as the pictus), but the general number/size of the stock was the same...so the overcrowding was decided by someone on here...not myself. Obviously others in THIS thread have said that the stock is mostly fine (minus the pictus), so either you are wrong, or they are. How do I know who is right? It's a bit of a guessing game.

What I do know, for certain, is that overcrowding is not the issue killing my fish currently. So while it may have become an issue in the future, the issue here and now is the one that I was asking help for, and you seem dead set on beating a dead horse. Be helpful, not hateful.

 

The members that are ignoring that this post is a request for disease identification and assistance need to be aware that if you want to speak of any issues concerning stock you need to ask the OP if they would like this advice.
It is posted under "freshwater disease" not the "stocking" thread.
Sure, stocking has a very important part to play in the development of illness, but--- if you have no answers to the current issue of disease ( the effects) in sick fish than let those who are willing to put the time in with the OP do it for you.
We are here to be supportive no matter where the OP is in their process of fish-keeping. I am sure that there have been times in your own learning process where you made uninformed mistakes... think about that before casting judgement on others.

 

@Paradise: You are not better than me. You may be better at taking care of fish, but that does not give you the right to be condescending or hostile. I am EXTREMELY new to this hobby. I am trying my best to be a good fishkeeper, FOR MY FISH, but there are a lot of things to learn. So I come on here for help. You are not the first person to be rude to new people asking for help here...sadly, it's seems it's the norm, not the exception.

You, and others would do well to remember that this forum is also a place people come to get information, and instead of berating, or attacking because someone made a mistake, you can educate and inform. I have thick skin, so I came back to ask for help again, but many won't. And those that don't never learn, and continue to make the same mistakes, or worse, lose interest in the hobby.

On the topic: My stock was suggested by someone on THESE forums. Someone that others said was well respected. I made a few slight alterations (such as the pictus), but the general number/size of the stock was the same...so the overcrowding was decided by someone on here...not myself. Obviously others in THIS thread have said that the stock is mostly fine (minus the pictus), so either you are wrong, or they are. How do I know who is right? It's a bit of a guessing game.

What I do know, for certain, is that overcrowding is not the issue killing my fish currently. So while it may have become an issue in the future, the issue here and now is the one that I was asking help for, and you seem dead set on beating a dead horse. Be helpful, not hateful.

Never said I was better than you. Just disappointed with whoever suggested you this stocking as I would've been very surprised it was suggested in the first place.

I admit that I was rude. I was speaking from my emotions and let it get out of hand. That's just the part that makes me human speaking. I felt like I was trying to be informative. But looking back on my past posts on this thread and I can clearly see the daggers in my words. Everyone has shortcomings, and I now know what mine is. In the end, I think I was either sad or scared for you to face what is happening as I remembered facing it myself.

I agree that this place has plenty of toxicity and many, like me, speak from their emotions rather than focusing on information. I believe that they, as well as myself, forget that there's an actual person behind the words in a screen. I admit my mistakes and apologize, and thank you for being patient with us. Eventually though, I'm sure me and the others will get flagged or something soon, as this forum works very hard to reduce toxicity.

 

@Paradise: Thank you for the apology, it is accepted. I'm trying, I really am. Losing this batch sucks...not only do I not enjoy watching fish die, but it also was almost 400 dollars worth of fish, and I had them for less than a month. The worst part is simply not knowing what is happening. It's hard to avoid repeating the same mistakes if I don't know what they are.

 

UPDATE:

One Bolivian Ram is now dead. As are two of the Raspbora Hets. And one panda cory

I can now say with complete confidence that overcrowding is not the issue. Not given how many have now died.

Still no symptoms, except with the ram. I watched the ram swimming in circles towards the bottom of the tank. He would then turn on his side until disturbed. He died about 30 minutes later.

My water parameters are still perfect according to API test, AND LFS test. CPD's don't seem to be being affected (yet) and neither do the pictus catfish. That said, they could die tomorrow at this rate, as nothing gave any real warning signs.

I've kinda accepted I'm going to lose this stock, but I really want to know what is happening so I can avoid it in the future...

With no external symptoms it is either an internal parasite or internal bacterial infection. Do you have any medications on hand?

 

I don't. My wife heard about something from API that's like a general antibiotic? Would that help?

 

Since not sure which it is ...why don't you try Tetra Lifeguard. It covers many different issues. Can usually find it at Petco and /or/ Petsmart.
Make sure to do at least a 25% water change before treating in aquarium and change at least the same amount of water before each dose.

 

Wow.. I'm sorry to hear that.

Like everyone else, we can't tell for sure. My best guess from what I've gathered from the others are bad sources of fish stock, cross contamination (unless you know all the fish were from the same water), or stress by bullying from other fish. When you setup the tank, did you did anything that you think was different from the traditional/common way?

 

KenandAna I have had my ups and downs with fishkeeping this past year. I have lost many fish to being a novice. I have learned much here. I hope that you can get to the bottom of what is happening. It is so disheartening to everyday go see your fish and have to count to make sure they are all there. It will get better.

The one quick thought I have and it may not be your issue but worth checking. Do you shake bottle number 2 of the nitrate test vigorously and beat it on the counter for at least 30 seconds and then shake the vial like crazy for 1 minute after adding bottle 2's drops? If that isn't done, you can get a false low nitrate reading. I lost many fish to high nitrates and they seem fine and then die. I also know that this has been a simple fix for some fishlore members. Not saying this is what is going on, but I thought it should be asked.

Good luck. I will be following and if I have any other ideas, I will throw them out there.

 

JRS: I wasn't shaking at first, but read on here I needed to, so I have been. Thanks for the tip.

@Paradise: I don't think I did anything unusual. I cycled fishless using a guide I found on here. I have nothing "fake" in my aquarium that could be leaking acryllic or anything like that, all real plants and real rocks, all boiled beforehand.

Filters are definitely set up correctly, and I provide an adequate amount of light daily. It's driving me crazy not knowing, but I'm going to try the suggested medication above tomorrow and see if it helps. So far nothing dead today, which is a first in about a week...