Please Differentiate Between Pangio Kuhlii And Pangio Semicincta

  1. ap4lmtree

    ap4lmtree Well Known Member Member

    In my old picture, http://i.imgur.com/HL6xCP3.jpg

    are those two kuhli loaches in the front the same kuhli loach subspecies or is the one on the right, with the ucler/scar, a half banded kuhli loach?


    i have 4 of the kinds that look like ones on the left and they look older than the other looking ones, and about 6 of the kind on the right. But, maybe the ones that are like the ones on the right are just juvenile and not adult and therefore different color?

    thanks
     
  2. OP
    OP
    ap4lmtree

    ap4lmtree Well Known Member Member

    after looking at loaches.com. I think the subspecies on the left is pangio semicincta / half banded kuhli loach because it has more orange color, and the one on the right is pangio kuhli. It is strange because the semicincta stripes look like they are fuller and go around more than the kuhlii one.

    or am i wrong?


    I know people say that pangio semicincta / half banded kuhli loach has bands halfway around the body, but I couldn't find any good pictures that fit that description. Rather, the pictures i saw look like my kuhli in the left

    http://i.imgur.com/HL6xCP3.jpg

    and i think it is distinguishable because the color, not so much the bands. The color of the left one in that picture and other pictures of semicincta appear to be a orange-ish body whereas pangio kulii looks like more of a white body aside from the stripes like the kuhli loach on the right in that picture.

    Is this wrong, or could any of you give me pictures that clearly show the difference.

    I marked this post as important because it is for the benefit of loaches everywhere that they be learned about more.

    Thanks
     
  3. Demeter

    Demeter Well Known Member Member

    From my understanding the half banded ones stay a fair bit smaller, have a lighter orange, and their bellies are more yellow. The other banded loaches are a darker orange, get a bit larger, and their bands go nearly all the way around their body.

    I have a half banded loach and the other type of banded loach along woth black kuhlis. The smaller one is the half banded. Both are mature, not sure of the larger one's age but the little one is a good 5+ years old
    IMG_1404.JPG

    The big guy is of the larger species, it's around 4 inches. See how the bands go pretty much all around the body?
    IMG_1316.JPG


    Note that i am not 100% sure on this, its just my understanding of it.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    ap4lmtree

    ap4lmtree Well Known Member Member

    I see. thank you for the picture. I see two kuhlis in the top picture with some of the half banded one. Could you give me another picture of your half banded one. I can make it out from your picture, but another picture of that specific one would help me understand that subspecies more.

    thanks

    it looks like the ones in my picture, the one on the right is a half banded one then and the left one is a full banded one if your descriptions are accurate of which is which.
     
  5. chromedome52

    chromedome52 Fishlore VIP Member

    Actually, your fish are all semicinctus. The bands do not go all the way around the fish on either of those. Pattern variations do exist, and the differences in body shape could be sexual dimorphism.
     
  6. N

    Natalya Well Known Member Member

    What are the tubes you have in your fish tank?
     
  7. Demeter

    Demeter Well Known Member Member

  8. chromedome52

    chromedome52 Fishlore VIP Member

    You are wrong. First, there are no subspecies in the Genus Pangio. There are species, but what you have are all semicinctus, just some regional color variants.
     
  9. tyguy7760

    tyguy7760 Fishlore VIP Member

    Pattern variation is common in this species. Of the 8 semicincta I currently keep, 5 have a similar pattern to the one on the left of your picture, and 2 have one similar to the one on the right. The other one is completely different with the bands breaking apart into "sub bands" that looks more similar to a "PAN03" from seriously fish. Though I'm sure it's just another semicincta from another local.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    ap4lmtree

    ap4lmtree Well Known Member Member

    I ordered a second one that I will get tomorrow. My kuhli loaches love that the most and the large airstone in the back, which they hide under.

    Amazon.com : Breeding Cave, Govine Multi-Function Aquarium Ceramic Shrimp Spawning Breeding Cave : Pet Supplies

    Oh okay, good to know. I guess the pattern differentiation is because they come from different breeders or so.

    From what i read at seriousfish (^1), Pangio kuhlii is actually uncommon in aquarium hobby. Rather, all kuhli loaches sold are probably Pangio semicinctus? Or else do you have a picture of a true Pangio kuhlii?

    thanks

    (^1) Ref: Pangio semicincta – ‘Kuhli’ Loach (Acanthophthalmus semicinctus, Pangio kuhlii) in Notes paragraph 2.
     
  11. N

    Natalya Well Known Member Member

  12. OP
    OP
    ap4lmtree

    ap4lmtree Well Known Member Member

    i have a 20 gallon high with 10 kuhli loaches and a yellow female betta and 11 amano shrimp

    but, because i want to change my kuhli loach hiding and skittish behavior and also make them go out more

    i decided to online buy 6 java loaches from aquariumfish.net being that i read java loaches are less fearful and skittish than kuhli loaches, i hope they lead and cultivate my kuhli loaches to become less fearful too. Otherwise, i would have to live with kuhli loaches that hide all the time, and i am trying to modify their behavior

    Thus, because i am going to have so many kuhli and java loaches, i thought i need more housing. =)

    also, i plan on getting a 30g or 40g within a year or so if i can.

    Once i get a 30 or 40 gallon later on too, then i also wish to add another fish like ember tetras or harlequin rasboras being that there would be more space for them and my betta not to fight i hope.

    serious fish article on Pangio semicincta says seems to suggest that Pangio Kuhlii is uncommon in the aquatic hobby. Thus, do any of you have any pictures of a true Pangio kuhlii or if their bands fully go around the whole loach, including their stomach?

    It seems right now that true endemic Pangio kuhlii is like a mysterous unicorn to me.

    thanks

    Pangio semicincta – ‘Kuhli’ Loach (Acanthophthalmus semicinctus, Pangio kuhlii) says this in the notes:

    This species is among the most frequently-misidentified in the hobby, almost always being traded as P. kuhlii.

    However the latter is currently considered endemic to Java, from where commercial collections are almost unheard of, and has possibly never been seen in aquaria.

    [...]

    However even if further study reveals P. kuhlii to occur outside Java it appears probable that it is not the common aquarium ‘Kuhli/coolie’ loach which is more likely to be P. semicincta, one or more unidentified species, or a combination of these.

    if anyone has a Pangio kuhlii, then please share a picture. Otherwise, i will have to guess that no one actually has one, and it might be like a mysterous unicorn, or that Pangio semicincta is the only species of kuhli loach widely available.

    IE, i challenge you guys to produce a true Pangio kuhlii picture.

    thanks