Playing At Hardscape-only Aquascape

I was flipping through Aquascaping pictures a while back. Almost by accident I stumbled upon some tanks that were beautifully set up with hardscape and what I think of as Peacock-Fish. Most would probably call these species Display Fish - usually elegant in appearance and accompanied by a flamboyant color pattern, or body design, that really steals the show. These were Cichlids, Angels, some other species I'm not remembering right now, and even though these kinds of fish are quite often stand-alone wonderful to look at I found myself looking passed the flamboyance and more so at plantless-tanks, that really enhanced these species by being lackluster in color, lighting, plant life.

After playing around with some ideas, not really ready to set up a new tank at the moment, I decided to play with a few pieces I had, an empty tank, and dull white sand, so here's what I ended up with after a little over an hour and the beginning of a headache -

Viewed from above -



- Close up front



And pretty much how I was viewing it -



Trust me, I'm not after validation that it was time well-spent (my headache says otherwise anyways - haha!) just wanting to see if any of us have hardscape-only, or close to, tanks out there they'd be willing to share in this thread, or maybe suggestions of small but peacock-like fish for tanks 20G and under just to get a few ideas.

By all means, if any of you want to give a critique on my sand-play go right ahead. Tear it to pieces, so I can pick up the fragments of what's left, and work on something better. That's about 20-30 pieces of weird wood in there, pinned with rocks, so hopefully there's something left when the critique is done.

Cheers!

 

That is an amazing arrangement! I don't have any critique other than it is amazing...
I do have a favor, however.
Could you look at my hardscape that I am doing right know for my 180 gallon?
I would really appreciate your skilled eye.
Here is my thread. On page four is my last (sad attempt).
Finally... On To Aquascaping!

 

I love it! Oh, how I wish I could be of help. I have no real experience aquascaping yet but I have quite enjoyed watching and learning from yours. I've seen some recent videos of what some might call 'dreary' scapes too, but with the right fish I think it can look very clean and well planned.

I'm not very experienced with stocking either but think some green fish would look awesome... you know, like the fish are bringing the green since there's no plants.

 

Those pieces laying on the ground on the far right. I think they should go. I would like to see that right side slightly more open... I feel like its a bit too much DW with the twigs on the right being just a bit much.

 

I've always loved this scape:

 

Looks good man

A few pieces that don't fit for my eye (purple arrows). Other than that it looks very peaceful and looking forward to see that with water.

 

Looks good man

A few pieces that don't fit for my eye (purple arrows). Other than that it looks very peaceful and looking forward to see that with water.

Yup! I completely agree with you, Nigel. Sorry for the late replies guys. Had some time to play in the sand on this one, then got really busy. Thanks for the replies, and thanks for arrowing those spots, Nigel! I looked at this tank when I got home and my brain picked up those spots, or close to, as well.

That right piece, farthest in the left corner really "blehs..." me. I think it was one of those pieces that looked kewl outside of the tank, but no matter how I placed that piece it just sits poorly. I appreciate you pointing it out. One of the sticks you're arrowhead to I broke and let sit. I can see no those points aren't blending well as a whole.

I've always loved this scape:

These discus tanks are the exact reason I started looking at hardscape tanks! Love it.

Those pieces laying on the ground on the far right. I think they should go. I would like to see that right side slightly more open... I feel like its a bit too much DW with the twigs on the right being just a bit much.

Yup! But I have an idea to this madness. Most these sticks will get covered, and since there's no plant roots to hold the substrate in place, these roots will hold the sand from cascading forward. We'll se. It's too busy like you pointed out.

That is an amazing arrangement! I don't have any critique other than it is amazing...
I do have a favor, however.
Could you look at my hardscape that I am doing right know for my 180 gallon?
I would really appreciate your skilled eye.
Here is my thread. On page four is my last (sad attempt).
Finally... On To Aquascaping!

Thanks, and I'll give it a look. Problem is I'm not at my computer, and the link isn't showing up on my app, so if you point me in the direction so I can see where I will, since I normally quick view on the app.

Edit: it appeared when I quoted the post, so he. I have time I will!

 

Yup! But I have an idea to this madness. Most these sticks will get covered, and since there's no plant roots to hold the in place, these roots will hold the sand from cascading forward. We'll se. It's too busy like you pointed out.

What plants are you planning? Won't the twigs still poke up throught he plants? You could always cut some strips of food safe plastic and use them as underground retaining walls.

 

Thanks, and I'll give it a look. Problem is I'm not at my computer, and the link isn't showing up on my app, so if you point me in the direction so I can see where I will, since I normally quick view on the app.

Edit: it appeared when I quoted the post, so he. I have time I will!

Disregard my request, I am done aquascaping my tank-- thanks.

 

Touched it up some. Tanks been sitting on its new stand for a while now. I want to fill it, but I feel like I have a much better design idea for something else in this tank. There’s just more than a few technical problems to attempt my other idea. So, here it is, but paused.

 

UPDATE: What in the - ?

[pic somewhat related]



Taught myself a new trick today, and let me just say that it wasn’t how to lose gracefully! It also wasn’t the misshapen stack of, “Erm...what?” On the left side of the above tanks which is the weighted remains of my “playing at hardscape only tank”.




So funny thing, I was removing the hardscape of the above tank and had all the sticks removed, the substrate, stones. I was more or less done dismantling and I just had to vacuum out the little bit of sand still left in this tank. Sand was stuck to the left glass panel, and since I still had my gravel rake in my hand I reached in and tried to push it to the bottom when a funny little line suddenly appeared through the glass... cracked... broken... what?

Okay, I barely touched this thing - I have gentle fingers - and I stood there looking at the crack, which wasn’t there before mind you, contemplating whether or not to push the whole thing on the floor, and with this $14 broken Top-Fin a third the way off the stand, ears eagerly awaiting the much needed sounds of this doomed paperweight shattering into ten-thousand glittering shards of dismay with the only rival to this sad chorus likely to be my mad laughter as I exited the room... I stopped... I still really wanted to see gravity and the cement floor take my sweet-as-candy-until-glass-shard-flies-into-my-eye revenge on this tank, but what did I expect from a cheap tank?

Well-enough defeated without losing an eye in the same day, I set the broken tank aside and began to remedy the situation by making an unplanned new tank. Thirty long seconds into a YouTube DIY how-to on glass tank construction I clicked on something not tank related, being completely bored out of my mind.

30 seconds of tutorial and hours later -




I realized I probably should have paid attention to what little I did watch of that video. Hindsight... yeah...

Will it be glorious, or a waste of an afternoon? Seriously, I have no idea. That’s why I’m asking you. I've never assembled a tank before. Never even given it much thought.

Nailed it!

 

Oh no! That sucks!! Glad you didn't break it all the way. If that turns out it will be really cool.

 

Update: We’ll that’s weird... from hardscape only to trial-Dutch?










Start-up: November 16, 2017

Light: Chihiros A-Series 50cm (half-power @ 3 BPS Co2 injected for 3 hrs)
Substrate: Stratum
Fertilization: Liquid Macro/Micro 2ml on alternating days (Seen on cabinet shelf)
Filtration: SunSun 602B w/ glass piping
Co2: 24oz paintball tank w/ modified regulator & Hinterfield Slanted glass diffuser


Notes: Feel like those who know me could have made a fairly accurate guess and assumed hardscape-only wasn't going to last all that long. Turns out, it lasted even shorter than expected.

 

 

Update: Trimmed, Placement & Propogation

Before:




After:




Fixed original placement of stem plants, which were planted without much thought in order to acclimate. The majority of plants were growing roots into the water column. Plants were trimmed at a uniform height to prevent faster growth from shading slower plants, some of the trimmings replanted, what wasn’t was tossed back in my emersed box.

It’s not easy to see, but I replanted everything into streets, gathering a plant-layout idea as I went, which I sketched into my notebook as a blueprint to how I think it should flow overall.




I considered upping the light intensity a bit, but decided against it. Plants that have already acclimated might do well, but some of the plants from my emersed collection aren’t showing new growth yet.

Lighting: Chihiros A-501 ran at reduced setting for 4 hours each day [4PM - 8PM]. Co2 increased from 3 bps to 4 bps, no fertilizer increase yet

 

Too funny, this tank has been through it all!!!!

FYI, I've found that with lighting on the 4th not getting the reds I want, better on 5 and up....

I like it just redid I one of mine to a more Dutch style as well...

 

Too funny, this tank has been through it all!!!!

FYI, I've found that with lighting on the 4th not getting the reds I want, better on 5 and up....

I like it just redid I one of mine to a more Dutch style as well...

Oh my god, I know! Me and cheap 10 Gallon tanks - never again! I’ll play around with it for a bit, then tear it down and get a quality low-iron rimless tank that fits the stand because every 10 Gallon tank I touch dies.

Edit: seriously, a standard ten gallon tank is one I’ll never remove the rI'm from for myself or anyone again. The glass on cheap 10 gallons is too big (L x H) and made of too thin of glass. It becomes fragile and bows without the rims too much for long term use, not to mention for what reasons every one I’ve modified has had some of the worst sealed joints I’ve seen.

And thanks for the lighting intensity tip! Eventually I planned on working the dimmer settings up, but started low. Half the plants were added grown in their emersed form, the other half I found dropped on the porch by the mail lady on a day when the temp was 19 degrees. I was hoping to avoid some unnecessary algae. Maybe... haha!

How tall is the tank you’re talking about with your red plants, if you don’t mind me asking, and where’s your dang thread Jocelyn! I want to see!

 

Lazy about posting reds are primarily in tens, chihiros setting depending on co2 or not, 5 if no co2 plus a stand, 4 wasn't getting reds red, 5 was too high with no co2, 5+stand on the lower setting, just slightly raised, happy medium. With co2 coloration is best at 7, but most set at 6.
Will post some soon and tag you, just set up a new UNS low iron 30c, would love some opinions on it (just have to remember to get the pics transferred to iPad)


Funny, I was wondering if it was a ten you removed the rI'm from... been debating about doing it, now I will happily leave as is
What ever happened to that poor other tank????

 

Funny, I was wondering if it was a ten you removed the rI'm from... been debating about doing it, now I will happily leave as is

Totally a ten gallon and when I gently tapped the glass with my gravel rake I pieced a new one back together with unbroken pieces of the other broken 10 gallons I dug up from the graveyard I've buried a few bad ideas and failure in.

And yeah, removing the rI'm on 10 gallons. You can cut the 1 inch band on the outside of the tank using a straight-edge, narrowing it to 1/4 - 3/8 and inch but not removing it entirely, which will clear some of the obstruction to the tank. You could also get away with narrowing the bottom as well. It opens it up a bit more and gives it a sleeker look. This way the structural support remains intact, while opening it up. It's not a whole lot of work.

I've removed the top rims off 20 gallon longs, standard 20 gallons. Removed both rims on 5 gallons. All these were fine as is. A 20 gallon long bows a bit when filled without the top rim, but it bows a bit with the rI'm on. Even removed both rims off 29 gallon and a 30, which requires added support - siliconed a middle, glass brace on the 29 and euro-bracing on the 30. No problems.

The problem with a 10 gallon is it's about the same thickness material as a 5 gallon tank, meaning it's holding back somewhere around double or more of the same pressure with the same thickness of material spread across a larger area. The thinner material wants to flex, but glass doesn't flex much before it breaks.

When I reassembled the 10 gallon from the boneyard I put it back together the same way my low-iron rimless are - which are supposed to be constructed either the strongest or second strongest way, if I remember. I even reinforced the panels, gave it time to cure fully, filled it up, and realized it was pointless as I watched that thin glass bow and bow father. Bowing equals a higher chance that the pressure will weaken the silicone joints and pull apart overtime - best case, a tank that does this leaks after a year or two (haven't had one fail, so no idea really) of bowing out as it's filled and relaxing as it's emptied with water changes / worst case and there isn't enough towels in the neighborhood to sponge gallons and gallons of water out of the carpet. Reason why rimless tanks have such thick glass. My low-iron rimless 5 gallon is 2x as thick as a cheap ten gallon and shorter, which means less pressure.

I knew better. Even with this rather useless information rattling in my head, I knew better.

What ever happened to that poor other tank????

I'm not ready to talk about that. The feels...

 

Update: Bacterial Blooming

I noticed the water wasn’t crystal clear last night. When the lights came on today I could see the cloudy indication of the bacterial bloom rolling like smoke in front of the glass outflow. I tried taking photos to show just how cloudy it was, but it doesn’t show up well. Just makes the photos kind of blurry and drab.




Pearling






And there’s an ammonia source for the bacterial bloom right here:



The healthy H.C. was grown emersed by me, while the bits that are covered with filamentous diatoms came from another high-tech tank. At the moment the filamentous diatoms are an eyesore, but not much else. it’s probably easier just to remove the H.C. that is less healthy to prevent further spread since it’s only on a few pieces.

Lighting: Chihiros A-Series [Set: Max] 4 hrs daily
Co2: 4 bps
Nutrients: E.I. Macro/Micro on alternating days

 

That stinks. I guess just do lots of water changes? Are you dosing full EI or 1/3 or 1/2 EI?

I'm setting up a tank for my neighbor, and I'm debating whether to go with the chihros RGB or the chihiros A series. I've heard the A series can wash out colors, but that it has higher PAR. Its a 20 long again, so only about 11 inches deep. Which do you like best? Also, I'm debating between Marsfield Controsoil Extra Fine (~1mm) or ADA Aquasoil. I'll be doing a dwarf baby tear carpet, so I liked the controsoil the best right now because of the small grain size. ADA aquasoil powder is twice the price of controsoil fine. Have you used controsoil before and would you recommend it? Also, would the smaller grain size be fine for all the plants?

 

That stinks. I guess just do lots of water changes? Are you dosing full EI or 1/3 or 1/2 EI?

Nope to the water changes for a few reasons:

1.) Too busy and far too lazy and -

2.) [I think] an increase in water changes would actually be counterproductive in this case. The places where it's actually growing, not just snagged in the current, are a few plants and leafs that experienced die back during acclimation, releasing ammonia. No established biological filter = Ammonia + Light = diatoms x strong current = filamentous diatoms. If I remember right. Haha!

- My water likely has elevated levels of silica, so more water changes would add a continued supply, encouraging diatom growth.

- Much easier to eliminate ammonia sources by pruning and seed the filter with biological media from established filter, or use a Bio-Starter, hopefully.

I'm setting up a tank for my neighbor, and I'm debating whether to go with the chihros RGB or the chihiros A series. I've heard the A series can wash out colors, but that it has higher PAR. Its a 20 long again, so only about 11 inches deep. Which do you like best? Also, I'm debating between Marsfield Controsoil Extra Fine (~1mm) or ADA Aquasoil. I'll be doing a dwarf baby tear carpet, so I liked the controsoil the best right now because of the small grain size. ADA aquasoil powder is twice the price of controsoil fine. Have you used controsoil before and would you recommend it? Also, would the smaller grain size be fine for all the plants?

Before replying to some of the other stuff there's this: ask yourself how much this person understands, comprehends, and how likely they are able to perform continuous upkeep on the tank long-term? I could slap a tank up for anyone footing the bill, but monitoring steady levels, nutrient dosing, plant & stocking health, identifying minor problems before they escalate inevitably falls onto the shoulders of the owner unless they want to foot the bill for my continued maintenance and help after. I'm generous, but not that generous, and my time usually requires $$motivation$$.

Okay! That said, I'd take into consideration a few things about the Chihiros Lights -

1.) The difference in cost between the A-Series and the RGB Chihiros Light for a 30 inch model. I can't think of the price for either of the top of my head, but there's no doubt the RGB series is priced higher.

2.) "Washed Out" - I've typed this elsewhere, but I'll say it again. When I first set up an A-Series it looked visually awful in comparison to the RGB+W Finnex Planted+ 24/7 on the tank two feet away. After plants adapted to the new light, giving it some time, and grew in I changed this opinion. In a tank of light green, dark green, maybe some yellow plants, I like the Chihiros A-Series better than my 24/7. The visual difference I first noticed between lights is barely recognizable in a tank with green plants. In a tank where I want lots of reds, yellow, oranges, purple if I had, there are much better lights to help show these - the best being Metal Hallides lights, T-5's, maybe another, while LED's are towards the bottom, even RGB LED's.

- if colors need to look their best get a Metal Halides. If colors need to look nice and there's going to be lots of colorful plants in the future, look into a RGB like the Chihiros. If the person is someone who likely isn't going to care if their reds aren't bleeding gorgeous and just the right shade, then the A-Series.

- Both lights are likely high-light on such a short tank. The matter of which one is going to fall into a category of visual preference versus cost. The plants in the photos I've posted in this thread are shown under an A-Series. Now given, they aren't well-established which accounts for colors, and the last set is foggy from bacteria.



As for substrate, I'm going to have a similar argument as of which one, even though I haven't used Controsoil. Aquasoil is regarded as a very good substrate, but overpriced. I've seen colorful, healthy plants grown in sand, gravel, clown-booger colored gravel, wedged between rocks, or just floating. Aquasoil isn't going to provide any substantial element to a balanced tank, and I think if people aren't aware (especially someone else's tank) they should be made aware that they are going to have a virtually non-inhabitable glass box of water, doing frequent and large water changes, until ammonia levels settle and a cycle is established.

If the person isn't very experienced, not able to keep up with the water changes, or is prone to frequent rearranging just skip right over Aquasoil. Hobbyists that are more experienced are likely the only ones that can use a substrate like ADA Aquasoil to their full potential and see a difference between that or something cheaper. I'm definitely not saying it's a waste for the cost, or wasted one someone new. Is it something - the owner might, the plants might, or the Aquascape might - benefit from to justify the expense? Just a question I'd ask myself.

The money spent on aquasoil could be much better utilized in lighting, Co2 system, filtration, a stand, plants, a quality tank (low-iron rimless, or other) and probably in a few other places I'm not thinking of right now if there is no foreseeable benefit in any of those three areas.

- just my thoughts

 

Before replying to some of the other stuff there's this: ask yourself how much this person understands, comprehends, and how likely they are able to perform continuous upkeep on the tank long-term? I could slap a tank up for anyone footing the bill, but monitoring steady levels, nutrient dosing, plant & stocking health, identifying minor problems before they escalate inevitably falls onto the shoulders of the owner unless they want to foot the bill for my continued maintenance and help after. I'm generous, but not that generous, and my time usually requires $$motivation$$.

She's going to be my client. As this is what I want to do for a living, I said I would set it up for free, then charge maintnence. She will be paying for everything. I basically want to do this for a few close people, build a sort of resume, then go to my doctors, dentist, people like that. But, this is perfect because she's close (right next door), really good practice, and I get to build my resume kind of. I'll be doing weekly maintnence, but when I first flood I'll be doing as much maintnence as needs to be done.

1.) The difference in cost between the A-Series and the RGB Chihiros Light for a 30 inch model. I can't think of the price for either of the top of my head, but there's no doubt the RGB series is priced higher.

Actually? Its almost exactly the same price.

- if colors need to look their best get a Metal Halides. If colors need to look nice and there's going to be lots of colorful plants in the future, look into a RGB like the Chihiros. If the person is someone who likely isn't going to care if their reds aren't bleeding gorgeous and just the right shade, then the A-Series.

I'm planning on planted with just monte carlo, DHG, Blyxxa, E. Tennelus, and Rotala sunrise. So, a bit of color will be better I think. As they're almost the same price....

If the person isn't very experienced, not able to keep up with the water changes, or is prone to frequent rearranging just skip right over Aquasoil. Hobbyists that are more experienced are likely the only ones that can use a substrate like ADA Aquasoil to their full potential and see a difference between that or something cheaper. I'm definitely not saying it's a waste for the cost, or wasted one someone new. Is it something - the owner might, the plants might, or the Aquascape might - benefit from to justify the expense? Just a question I'd ask myself.

She knows nothing about tanks or plants or fish. I'm building hardscape, planting the tank, and maintnencing completely. All she will be doing is "dose 5 ml out of this jar this day and5 ml out of this jar the next" haha. Hardscape and plants will stay exactly the same, just weekly trims and replantings. I think the plants will benefit from it, but I think the plants might benefit more if I get the controsoil since it has 1mm grain size, better for the carpet. I'm planning on letting it do a lot of the heavy lifting ferts wise and just run a lean EI dosing regime.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply so in depth. It is so, so helpful!! I really appreciate it.

 

She's going to be my client. As this is what I want to do for a living, I said I would set it up for free, then charge maintnence. She will be paying for everything. I basically want to do this for a few close people, build a sort of resume, then go to my doctors, dentist, people like that. But, this is perfect because she's close (right next door), really good practice, and I get to build my resume kind of. I'll be doing weekly maintnence, but when I first flood I'll be doing as much maintnence as needs to be done.



Actually? Its almost exactly the same price.



I'm planning on planted with just monte carlo, DHG, Blyxxa, E. Tennelus, and Rotala sunrise. So, a bit of color will be better I think. As they're almost the same price....



She knows nothing about tanks or plants or fish. I'm building hardscape, planting the tank, and maintnencing completely. All she will be doing is "dose 5 ml out of this jar this day and5 ml out of this jar the next" haha. Hardscape and plants will stay exactly the same, just weekly trims and replantings. I think the plants will benefit from it, but I think the plants might benefit more if I get the controsoil since it has 1mm grain size, better for the carpet. I'm planning on letting it do a lot of the heavy lifting ferts wise and just run a lean EI dosing regime.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply so in depth. It is so, so helpful!! I really appreciate it.

If those lights are pretty close to the same price Chihiros RGB all the way, for sure! What's the price out of curiosity? Saves me some time looking it up. Haha!

Controsoil may be smaller, but ADA breaks down and becomes a silty topsoil within a year or so. Probably should go with the Controsoil, but just F.Y.I.



I just thought of a good example of how my thought process would align when it came to setting up a tank for someone else -

My aunt and uncle have a neighbor on one side of them. Well-off, owns several large business enterprises. We've spoke about aquariums, shown him photos. If I were approached by this neighbor, because the money is there and the cost of a setup would virtually have no cap, the products, equipment, tank would all be well-known brands, best reviews. In this tank the lighting would be metal halides, have ADA aquasoil, automatic-nutrient dosing, tissue-culture plants and whatever it needed to have the fastest, least problematic start, and this neighbor would pay accordingly. Like I said, no cap.

On the other side of my aunt and uncle is an older family that is not so financially well-off as the first. There are items that are necessity and some that could be done without. While I would want both these neighbors to have a similar experience and great set-up to look at, it's a problem because the farther I try to cheapen the overall setup for this one the more of my time I may end up putting into it trying to create a similar experience for the two neighbors.


What I'm getting it is drawing the line for what is necessity for the algae-free start and healthy growth versus looking at $$$ to function on certain items, and what is easier for you to make the idea profitable. For future neighbors at a later date.

 

Controsoil may be smaller, but ADA breaks down and becomes a silty topsoil within a year or so. Probably should go with the Controsoil, but just F.Y.I.

I thought the smaller grain size of the controsoil would be better for the monte carlo. Why do you think get the controsoil if you said for the richer neighbor you would get Aquasoil?

If those lights are pretty close to the same price Chihiros RGB all the way, for sure! What's the price out of curiosity? Saves me some time looking it up. Haha!

$44.98 for the RGB, and A series is $54.

 

I thought the smaller grain size of the controsoil would be better for the monte carlo. Why do you think get the controsoil if you said for the richer neighbor you would get Aquasoil?

Monte Carlo & H.C. (Dwarf Baby Tears) have similar habits. They sometimes spread beneath the substrate under the right conditions, but if planted in a gravel sized substrate they just spread over it. Tie H.C. To a piece of lava rack and eventually it will root into the porous surface and grow from there. They're less particular to substrates than other carpet plants.

I only say Controsoil because I'd become very familiar with ADA (can't recall what substrate you used) before using it in someone else's tank, then you know what to expect. No idea the money your neighbor has, but the one next door to my relatives has "Yacht-Money". He didn't bat an eye when I threw out a ballpark figure of what I thought the size and type of tank (500-600-maybe more gallons) we spoke of might cost, or how much hardscape would venture to be - $1,000+. A few dozen or two bags of Aquasoil might just be the cheapest investment in the tank he was thinking.

Like I was just talking, and joking about a tank, and he liked the thought. There's middle-class, well-off, rich, and then yacht-money rich.

$44.98 for the RGB, and A series is $54.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same Chihiros RGB by that price, but if we are link me a private message immediately so I can get one (what's 30 inch? 80cm light?). There's a Chihiros RGB that's about half the price as the one I'm thinking of, and is more visual-colored towards a reef tank vs freshwater, and you can usually see it in the photos above reef tanks, looking cold blue, cold white, purple. However, the RGB Chihiros light I'm talking about has red, green, blue tones and looks like a lit up series of colored boxes in place of LED, is wider than the A-Series and is colored specifically for freshwater.

They're both RGB Chihiros.

 

Monte Carlo & H.C. (Dwarf Baby Tears) have similar habits. They sometimes spread beneath the substrate under the right conditions, but if planted in a gravel sized substrate they just spread over it. Tie H.C. To a piece of lava rack and eventually it will root into the porous surface and grow from there. They're less particular to substrates than other carpet plants.

I only say Controsoil because I'd become very familiar with ADA (can't recall what substrate you used) before using it in someone else's tank, then you know what to expect. No idea the money your neighbor has, but the one next door to my relatives has "Yacht-Money". He didn't bat an eye when I threw out a ballpark figure of what I thought the size and type of tank (500-600-maybe more gallons) we spoke of might cost, or how much hardscape would venture to be - $1,000+. A few dozen or two bags of Aquasoil might just be the cheapest investment in the tank he was thinking.


Like I was just talking, and joking about a tank, and he liked the thought. There's middle-class, well-off, rich, and then yacht-money rich.

I have Aquasoil in mine. I know first week will be 50% waterchanges every day, second week every other day, third week two 50% and then settle down into routine maintnence. Wow, that's really expensive. Lucky guy lol

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same Chihiros RGB by that price, but if we are link me a private message immediately so I can get one (what's 30 inch? 80cm light?). There's a Chihiros RGB that's about half the price as the one I'm thinking of, and is more visual-colored towards a reef tank vs freshwater, and you can usually see it in the photos above reef tanks, looking cold blue, cold white, purple. However, the RGB Chihiros light I'm talking about has red, green, blue tones and looks like a lit up series of colored boxes in place of LED, is wider than the A-Series and is colored specifically for freshwater.

Ohhhh I was looking at the reef one. Glad you caught that!!! Would've been bad. I'll get the A series and use the extra money for extras like lily pipes.

You have lily pipes right? What do you do for surface skimming? When my Eheim surface skimmer goes down my surface gets nasty quick. I'm going to be getting her lily pipes and didn't want nasty stuff on the surface. I love the way it looks when its crystal clear.

 

Monte Carlo & H.C. (Dwarf Baby Tears) have similar habits. They sometimes spread beneath the substrate under the right conditions, but if planted in a gravel sized substrate they just spread over it. Tie H.C. To a piece of lava rack and eventually it will root into the porous surface and grow from there. They're less particular to substrates than other carpet plants.

I only say Controsoil because I'd become very familiar with ADA (can't recall what substrate you used) before using it in someone else's tank, then you know what to expect. No idea the money your neighbor has, but the one next door to my relatives has "Yacht-Money". He didn't bat an eye when I threw out a ballpark figure of what I thought the size and type of tank (500-600-maybe more gallons) we spoke of might cost, or how much hardscape would venture to be - $1,000+. A few dozen or two bags of Aquasoil might just be the cheapest investment in the tank he was thinking.


Like I was just talking, and joking about a tank, and he liked the thought. There's middle-class, well-off, rich, and then yacht-money rich.

I have Aquasoil in mine. I know first week will be 50% waterchanges every day, second week every other day, third week two 50% and then settle down into routine maintnence. Wow, that's really expensive. Lucky guy lol

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same Chihiros RGB by that price, but if we are link me a private message immediately so I can get one (what's 30 inch? 80cm light?). There's a Chihiros RGB that's about half the price as the one I'm thinking of, and is more visual-colored towards a reef tank vs freshwater, and you can usually see it in the photos above reef tanks, looking cold blue, cold white, purple. However, the RGB Chihiros light I'm talking about has red, green, blue tones and looks like a lit up series of colored boxes in place of LED, is wider than the A-Series and is colored specifically for freshwater.

Ohhhh I was looking at the reef one. Glad you caught that!!! Would've been bad. I'll get the A series and use the extra money for extras like lily pipes.

You have lily pipes right? What do you do for surface skimming? When my Eheim surface skimmer goes down my surface gets nasty quick. I'm going to be getting her lily pipes and didn't want nasty stuff on the surface. I love the way it looks when its crystal clear.

I also found some Aquasoil powder for about $55, I'll just get that so I get the benefits of aquasoil and the benefits of the small grain size

 

I have Aquasoil in mine. I know first week will be 50% waterchanges every day, second week every other day, third week two 50% and then settle down into routine maintnence. Wow, that's really expensive. Lucky guy lol



Ohhhh I was looking at the reef one. Glad you caught that!!! Would've been bad. I'll get the A series and use the extra money for extras like lily pipes.

You have lily pipes right? What do you do for surface skimming? When my Eheim surface skimmer goes down my surface gets nasty quick. I'm going to be getting her lily pipes and didn't want nasty stuff on the surface. I love the way it looks when its crystal clear.

No problem! I was seriously hoping you found the freshwater RGB for cheap!

On my 32.1 gallon with stainless steel pipes the surface skimmer is on the intake, and control is adjusted by turning the intake grate(?) to adjust how much, if any, water is sucked through the surface skimmer part. If you look at my most recent picture of that tank you can see what I'm talking about. Some other means I use is the exact same concept, except made of glass. These are high-tech means, all of which increase how much Co2 you need to add, but keep the surface sparkling 24/7 and are 100% adjustable. I bought them on eBay.

Low-tech I have "fire wheels", a poppy outflow, and just a Lilly pipe - these are just adjusted so the surface is agitated all the time.

 

I wish lol. Ahhhh so something like this?

I have a Fluval surface skimmer but its big and black and obtrusive. Keeps the surface crystal clear and sparkling though. She says she wants eberything as unobtrusive as possible so inline heater, lily pipe inflow and glass outflow. In this tank you don't have the skimmer, just the lily pipe set higher so more agitation? Sorry for all the questions, I'll go make my own thread and tag you. I've been meaning to do that but ehh I'm too lazy lol. I'll do it now. Btw I love talking with someone on here that actually knows what aquascaping is and knows the balance and equipment and tips and tricks. It really helps so much!

 

I wish lol. Ahhhh so something like this?

I have a Fluval surface skimmer but its big and black and obtrusive. Keeps the surface crystal clear and sparkling though. She says she wants eberything as unobtrusive as possible so inline heater, lily pipe inflow and glass outflow. In this tank you don't have the skimmer, just the lily pipe set higher so more agitation? Sorry for all the questions, I'll go make my own thread and tag you. I've been meaning to do that but ehh I'm too lazy lol. I'll do it now. Btw I love talking with someone on here that actually knows what aquascaping is and knows the balance and equipment and tips and tricks. It really helps so much!

Yup - that link brought up the glass and the S.S. Farther down for my surface skimmer + intake sets. I used some kind of surface skimmer (separate from intake) on another tank for a while. Like you said, crystal clear but very obtrusive.

And in this tank -




I’m not using anything at all, so far. It’s brand new, uncycled, unstocked without much in terms of ingredients that cause a film. That’s a photo with everything running full blast, and not even a ripple. Because virtually all I did was plant it in a matter of minutes and nothing is very colorful as of yet, I have no reason to show it off, so it just is. If I stock it, it becomes a different story because a skimmer is how I (at least how it plays out in my head) keep the surface clear for gas exchange, and a minimal but small, constant agitation flow to the filter directly for fish+beneficial bacterial oxygenation, as well as a means to exchange Co2 for O2 during the night.

There’s my logic, but whether even half of it holds scientific credibility is highly debatable. Unless there’s fish and established nitrogen cycle, I don’t care about the surface. A tank with plants, but no critters is cleaner, easier, and much more balanced, so there’s less negatives in appearance. Haha!

 

That really is no surface agitation at all. But I guess since you just planted you want CO2 as high as possible. Huh, just brought up glass for me. I'll probably get that skimmer, and when I first plant it I'll do it so the skimmer is underwater, not skimming, and just get lily pipes. Speaking of lily pipes... there's different types. I know I've seen something you posted once about lily pipes but I can't find it. this ones a lily pipe and this ones a violet pipe. I know they will move water differently, but what do you use?

 

Update:

Day 1




Day 7




Day 9




Day 11




Day 13



Day 14




Day 15




Day 16




Day 17




Day 18

 

Day 20







Day 30

Missing - trimmed

Day 32: I misplaced the background some where!

 

Continued ----> Update:


Can’t seem to find a handful of pics to fill the gaps before the last photo, where I trimmed it heavily.

Most of the plants in the background had reached the surface in the span of two weeks I trimmed all the plants and replanted some portions to fill in a few areas in the last picture. At the start I super glued the mosses into place, but the Riccia (right) at least doubled in mass and wanted to lift off the piece of wood, so I trimmed a good deal of it and then tied it to prevent it from loosening again - same with the moss on the left.

**** You might see a drastic increase in algae in some of the pics. When I started the tank I initially let the Co2 run 24/7 for a little over a week, then put it on a timer and began adjusting it over the next few weeks, and I'll likely continue to adjust it until I find a balanced level that's low enough so I can stock the tank. There was an initial kickback from the plants as I made changes to their environment, but their health is improving, and the algae is disappearing.

Game Plan- - -

I'll let the tank grow up to the surface again, which only took a few weeks the 1st time (a lot of light) while I continue to adjust Co2 and lower nutrient dosing levels to more tolerable levels, so I can think of introducing some algae eater. Before stocking anything I'll trim the tank down again, give it some time to adjust and regrow some before stocking some critters. Probably some of my RCS to begin with. They've always been great at determining healthy live-stock water conditions for sensitive species, since they tend to group at the waters surface if levels are out of balance, mainly nutrient overdosing.

Just some ideas. Haven't set anything in stone, since I'm more or less just playing with this tank and the plants for a bit of rapid growth and a more involved setup.