Platy Laying On The Bottom Of Tank :( Important

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by milankosaurus, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    Hi all, new to this forum and hobby, however did some good research (hopefully) before buying tank and fish.

    I have 10 gallon tank for 3 weeks now and it seems to by cycled as all my parameters are perfect. did one week fish-less cycle and one additional week with a single platy. added 2 more platies at the end of 2nd week. pH 6.6, nitrate,nitrite and ammonia all zero. water temp fluctuates between 75-80.tank is planted but not heavily (3 small plants, 3 medium size plants) + drift wood. now i have 6 male platies in the tank (maybe overstocked for 10G?)but i don't see them having territorial fights; occasionally they chase each other for 10-15 min and stop. one of my platies for past two days just sits on the bottom of tank all day but does come out to eat and comes greet when i show my face, but after that goes back to the bottom and hides behind plants again. i don't see others bullying it. other platies seems fine, however i see 2 platies with small white dots which makes me believe its an ich/ick and currently treating with Petco brand Parasite Remedy for 3rd day now. the dots are not increasing but staying the same. the platy sitting on the bottom of tank has few dots on the fins so do other two. i
    did de-chlorinated 15% water change every two weeks. but haven't done one since platy sitting on the bottom of tank yet.

    i am running out of ideas why he is laying down and trying to save him :(
    any help appreciated!
     
  2. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    U need to do atleast 50% water change and id do it immediately. Then keep up with 50% every week. Theyre prob stressed from water conditions cuz it is overstocked and 15% isnt enough to replenish the water. When theyre stressed they get sick. Do u have a liquid test kit or do u get ur water test at the fish store? Its kinda weird u have no nitrates in the tank. Also, do u have carbon cartridges in the filter? If so, dont replace them like they tell u to, just rinse em in tank water cuz if u throw em out ull lose ur good bacteria. i hope u dont take what im saying the wrong way. Just trying to help and figure out the problem!
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    thanks for quick response.i was worried i'd kill beneficial bacteria if i did any bigger water change as i read on multiple forums. i do have API liquid test kid and test every 2-3 days and no changes. carbon cartridge is removed as suggested by ich treatment. i only replaced one filter before i added fish because the tank was brown from tannins from drift wood, but water conditions never changed. same ph level and zero of the rest.

    i dont take anything wrong way lol, any help and advice is appreciated.
     
  4. Johnnybelfastboy

    JohnnybelfastboyValued MemberMember

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    Hi u said ammonia nitrites and nitrates are all 0. Ur tank is more than likely not cycled as it needs to have nitrates to be cycled as this is the end of the nitrogen cycle and u have only had it going for 3 weeks so maybe this is the cause
     
  5. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    There is pretty much no bacteria in the water so changing out more will not do anythin to ur cycle if u still have one. U may have lost ur cycle if ur reading 0 nitrates. There are plenty of people here who got rid of cartridges all together and replaces with sponges or other things, cost less and they dont need replacing. Next time it says to take out carbon, i just cut a hole and dump it out. Keep an eye on ur ammonia and nitrite levels too just in case ur cycle crashed. But ya, id do atleast a 50% water change now and see how the platy does. Then maybe another in 2 days. Clean water and good food go along way. Do u have any pics of the white spots? I hope ur guy makes it!
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    thanks i will do the water change. question: do you have to de-chlorinate the water BEFORE adding to the tank? or can i add after once its in the tank with fish? i never seem to find the correct answer, some ppl say it does not matter. asking because i do not have big enough bucket to do 50% water change one shot.
    i do not have any pics as i am not home, but basically the platy laying down on bottom does not have problem breathing nor anything wrong with its body besides the few tiny white dots on fins.
    aslo, should i put the carbon filter back in tank? i read if the parasite is here it will come back this way

    would the no cycle kill fish fast? how can i restart the cycle again?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2019
  7. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    Yes definitely dechlorinate before adding to the tank. And make sure the temp is close to the same as poss. And the cartridge, is it still wet or are u talking about a new one? If u still have the old one and its not dried out, id cut a hole and dump the carbon out and put it back. U could do this for a new one too so u dont remove the medicine. as far as the cycle goes, ull have to do a fish in cycle. Ur ph isnt too high so the ammonia wont be as toxic but any ammonia and especially nitrites can be deadly. Test ur water DAILY and if either one of those get above 1ppm, do a water change. Have u tested ur tap water? Id test it for everythin to see where its at and get back to us.

    Forgot to say, i always do fish in cycles and its totally doable if u keep up with water changes. Another thing that me and most people here use is Seachem Prime. Its a dechlorinator and also helps detox ammonia and nitrites so its a life saver in situations like these. A little goes along way as well. Best product out there as far as im concerned.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2019
  8. Islandvic

    IslandvicWell Known MemberMember

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    Welcome to the forum @milankosaurus .

    This is the right fourm to get pointed in the right direction.

    So there are a couple of points to address, after reading your posts.

    Everyone who has responded gave some solid advice.

    First, as others have mentioned, your tank is not cycled. Using replaceable cartridges is the best way to lose your tank's cycle and spend $$ when you don't have to.

    Here is a (LINK) to a thread on the forum, that gives a lot of examples with pics showing how to add DIY media to your filter. For $10 or less, you can boost its mechanical and biological filtration with a couple of easy mods. Plus you can discard using cartridges and instead place reusable media in the filter.

    You mentioned 15% water changes. The beneficial bacteria colonizes in the substrate and in the filter's media. It is a different type of bacteria that multiplies in the water column, which causes tank water to look milky. That is the kind you dont want.

    If you want to help jump start your cycle, add extra media of your choosing to the filter and an option is to dose the tank with a beneficial bacteria booster. I have used Tetra's Safe Start Plus with good results. Others choices available include Dr. Tim's One and Only, Seachem Stability and Fritz-Zyme's 7 and Turbo Start.

    Large water changes does not affect the cycle and is the best way to remove excess ammonia and nitrates.

    Eventually, invest in a 5-gallon bucket from Home Depot, Lowes, hardware store, etc. It will make water changes easy.

    Draining 4 gallons from your 10 gallon tank allows you to perform a 40% change all at once.

    I recommend using a gravel siphon vac to remove water at each water change. This will help keep your substrate clean and free of any build up of decaying organic matter, which contributes to ammonia and nitrate spikes.

    I am not a betting man, but I'd wager that with 6 platy's in a 10g and only 15% water changes every 2 weeks, the fish would be happier with more frequent and larger water changes.

    As for your question about dechlorinator, both methods you mentioned works.

    You can either treat each container of water individually you add to tank, or with the filter unplugged treat dose the tank with dechlorinator for the full 10 gallons then add you water.

    For example, for our 5.5g and 10g tanks, I add dechlorinator to my 5-gallon bucket then add that water to the tank.

    On our 55g and 75g, I add dechlorinator to the tank (dosing to treat entire tank volume) then I add water via a hose connected to a sink.

    My 55g and 75g gets water changes in the 50%-75% depending on how much time Inhave and how long it's been since last change. I will siphon vac the sand substrate first into a bucket or 2, then drain the tank with a pump and hose that stretches out to my plants outside. Best free fertilizer you can use on plants!

    As for your fish with Ich, that only gives more reason to do frequent water changes using a gravel siphon vac.

    Ich can be treated with heat, raise tank temp to 84°-86°f.

    Frequent water changes will remove the free floating ich.

    Raising the temp speeds up the Ich life cycle and higher temps will kill it off.

    I tried to look up your Ich media's ingredients list, but could not find it, so I cant comment on it.

    I've used Kordon's Ich Attack and their Rid Ich Plus with good results.

    Meds can only attack the Ich when they fall off the fish and and multiply in the water. When Ich is on the fish, meds are not effective against it.

    Here is one of the better YouTube videos explaining the life cycle of Ich....



    Once all fish are symptom free of Ich, continue whatever treatment regimen for an additional 7-10 days. This ensures the free floating Ich tomites are killed off.
     
  9. Johnnybelfastboy

    JohnnybelfastboyValued MemberMember

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    Yes no cycle will definitely play on the fish health. I dont 5hink anyone has a bucket to do a 50% water change in one shot lol. I think u will prob have to do a fish cycle. When i do a water change i pour it in the bucket as the bucket is filling up This way i feel the conditioner is getting properly mixed with the water... but hey thats just me as we all have our own little ways ☺
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    thanks for all this great info! really appreciate it!

    UPDATE: i just did 50% water change along with gravel vacuum as you all suggested and it worked like magic! all the fish seem to be a lot more activate as soon as i finished, even the one laying on the floor no longer does that! i actually used a 5 gallon bucket i forgot i had lol. i also returned the old filter back (it was still wet since i put it in the seal-able bag) but i cut a hole in and removed all the carbon from it. i rinsed it in the old water bucket. the old tank water stunk and was tea brown color.

    as for the ich, the fish are swimming so fast i can't take a non blurry pic so you can see. half of fish have handful of dots on fins and body. i seen a few bouncing themselves off the plants and read that they do that because ich is irritating their scales. i will continue treating for ich and will get an adjustable heater tomorrow to raise the temp slowly to 86. the heater i have now is pre-set to 78 which is already a temp i have every day without heater needed so its no good. thanks all!

    PS: below is the quick pic of my tank
     

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  11. Islandvic

    IslandvicWell Known MemberMember

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    The good thing is platys are generally hardy.

    So I'm sure they will be able to make it as you treat for Ich, since you seem to have caught it early.

    Good looking tank, especially with the plants.
     
  12. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    Thats a really pretty tank! And im glad everyone here could help. Id def take @Islandvic on filter media at some point for sure! Hopefully the ich will clear up soon! Wish u the best of luck and keep us posted!
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    Hi all, just purchased Seachem Stability since you guys mentioned i may not have a cycle completed so i would like to jump start it with fish in the tank. after i did 50% water change yesterday afternoon, this morning i tested water and no change (ph6.6, ammonia,nitrite and nitrate zero). i already have 6 fish for 2 weeks in the tank and these results have been exactly the same since i put the fish in first time, so i am not sure how i didn't have any ammonia,nitrite or nitrate spikes at all testing every other day. how do i jump start cycle properly with fish already in the tank with Seachem Stability? it says in directions to use 5mL for first day and then half aka 2.5mL (since i have 10g tank) for next 7 days. doesn't say however if with fish or without, only that fish can be introduced anytime. i do not want to mess up so asking if anyone has experience with this.

    thanks!
     
  14. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    Its fine with fish in there. Id turn off the filter, dump it in there and then turn filter back on after. Its so weird u havent had any ammo readings at all. Are u shaking the bottles for nitrate test REALLY well and following instructions to a T? U should be getting ammonia or nitrite readings if ur not cycled....are u testing before the water changes?
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    i agree it's weird. i did fish-less cycle for 7 days with new tank purchase. then i went to have the water tested at Petco and they used the strips to test. i was told my ammonia is one level above zero as well as nitrite was purple instead of blue and no nitrates. then they told me wait 3-4 days and then i can buy fish. so i got one fish then 3 days later i got two more and week later 3 more. every other day i have been testing with additing fish and everything was exactly the same. no change in water parameters. i am following instruction exactly to a T reading twice or three times to make sure i make no mistake. could it be that my tank actually did full cycle in one week since now i have zero ammonia, nitrates and nitrites? its pretty odd
     
  16. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    A tank NEVER cycles in 7 days unless u have another tank that u moved media over from. When u say fishless cycle, how did u do it? And i wish someone would have told me but never trust the pet stores, they just want to sell fish or other things. Testing ur own water is the best thing and also research research research. They give out terrible advice alot of the time either not knowing or just to up sales. Im at a loss really...because if u are cycled u should have some hint of nitrates. But then again, u should have some ammonia or nitrite of it wasnt....maybe @mattgirl could help more then me. She helps everyone with cycling issues...did u test ur tap water for everything? Ph ammo nitrites & nitrates? Please do and let us know the results! How are the fish doing today? And the ich?
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    i figured after researching that stores tend to care more about sales than actually helping you lol, hence why i am here on this forum.
    anyways, fish-less cycle i was told at the store is to fill the tank with tap water, put plants and decorations in, treat it to de-chlorinate, have the filter on non-stop and leave lights on 12h a day for 7 days. then come back to test the water.
    i will test my tap water tonight. also haven't checked on fish since i am at work but in the morning two of them were laying on the floor again and still have white salt size spots on them. i think they all have ich now, but only handful of dots. i also purchased adjustable heater so i will slowly raise temp tonight every couple of hours few degrees up, see if that helps. ich medicine says do 3 treatments (every other day 1 dose for 6 days) and should disappear but well see i guess
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  18. JamieLu

    JamieLuWell Known MemberMember

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    Ok, ya. Thats not how a fishless cycle works but i think most of us starting off thinking or hearing something along those lines. A fishless cycle is when u dose ammonia directly to the tank til it converts to nitrites the nitrates and it usually takes about a month, sometimes more. Fish in cycles, the ammonia is produced by the fish and it goes from there. So if no ammonia is added to the tank in some way the bacteria never establish because thats their "food" source. But still, uve had them in there for 3 weeks right? U still should have some ammonia readings by now. Get back to us when u do the tap water test and hopefully ur fishies are doing ok.
     
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    milankosaurus

    milankosaurusNew MemberMember

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    i have had the tank for 3 weeks and fish for almost 2 weeks. i was told in the store if readings r fine i can introduce 1-2 fish but to test every other day for ammonia spikes and change water if it does but nothing ever spiked and everything looked "healthy" by API liquid test kit (or so i thought since i had no spikes in anything). i only did 15% water change during those two weeks so i am at loss as well lol. i dont understand how i have no ammonia spikes when platies poop like crazy. is the filter taking care of it or what? plants messing up cycle? i did not add any products to speed up process or to kill ammonia etc..
     
  20. Johnnybelfastboy

    JohnnybelfastboyValued MemberMember

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    It sounds as tho you will have to go thru a normal cycle...tho its strange u havent had no spikes in your readings. Just use the seachem stability with every water change as it will help establish ur biofilter and will stop ur fish from dying from new tank syndrome... if you have had it going for 3-4 weeks hopefully u should start getting some readings soon... good luck with the fish
     
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