Platy is sick - Anyone like doing research?

UnknownUser

Here’s an issue for the textbooks. Can’t find ANYTHING in my online searches.

My platy is sick. She’s been this way for MONTHS and is slowwwwllyyyy getting worse. She’s been with my other fish who are TOTALLY fine, so it’s not contagious. A while back I noticed it looked like the inside of her mouth was white, I thought nothing of it because maybe that’s just how it is and I never noticed. Now I think this is where it all began. She opens and closes her mouth like she’s got peanut butter in there. It’s not gasping. She’ll just be floating calmly, but all of a sudden it’s like she’s startled and she freaks out. It only lasts a second. I’m starting to think when she tries to move, something neurologic is going on where it makes her movements jerky and erratic. She has stopped eating as of yesterday. For a bit now when she did eat, she’d have erratic movements to the point of splashing. I just saw her try to go for some food and have what looked like a 1 second seizure and then not go for it again. She seems Completely normal if she doesn’t attempt to swim.

So basically, white stuff in her mouth. Moving her mouth like peanut butter’s in there. Erratic swimming.

I’m wondering if maybe it’s a neurological issue, maybe genetic, or maybe this white stuff in her mouth eventually made it’s way to the brain. I have no idea though and google doesn’t get me anywhere.
 

A201

Maybe the Platy is simply aging out. Since its health is obviously on a downward spiral, be a good idea to remove the infected fish asap. If the issue is truely a bacterial infection, it can spread if tankmates are allowed to nibble on an infected corpse.
 
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UnknownUser

Maybe the Platy is simply aging out. Since its health is obviously on a downward spiral, be a good idea to remove the infected fish asap. If the issue is truely a bacterial infection, it can spread if tankmates are allowed to nibble on an infected corpse.

She has been in QT since the symptoms started indicating an actual issue and not just an old tired fish. It’s been a rapid decline since then.

It's probably a bacterial infection...

I have no idea what bacterial infection it could be. On hand I have kanaplex, metroplex, and furan - 2. Do you think it’s worth treating her, and which one would you treat her with?

The symptoms of erratic swimming started maybe a week ago. The not eating began yesterday. The lethargy / slowing down started maybe a month ago, but the white inside mouth has been there for months.
 
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ayeayeron

Sorry to say this, but I think it’s best to euthanize her. In my experience When a fish stops eating it’s too far gone.
 
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UnknownUser

Sorry to say this, but I think it’s best to euthanize her. In my experience When a fish stops eating it’s too far gone.

Yeah, I typically do when they stop eating or when the diagnosis isn’t good. I just haven’t made the decision yet, I’m not sure if I’m humanizing her in saying “she’s not happy” because how do I actually know she’s not happy? It’s not like she can smile or frown. I’ve been back and forth with the option to euth for a week. Since she’s alone in a QT tank it’s possible to let her die naturally but is it humane to let it go like that
 
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AvalancheDave

She has been in QT since the symptoms started indicating an actual issue and not just an old tired fish. It’s been a rapid decline since then.

I have no idea what bacterial infection it could be. On hand I have kanaplex, metroplex, and furan - 2. Do you think it’s worth treating her, and which one would you treat her with?

Metroplex should never be used on bacterial infections of fish since nearly all are aerobic and metronidazole only affects anaerobic bacteria.

Kanaplex is underdosed 17X less than what veterinary texts recommend. I would dose at least 10X the recommended dose.

Furan-2 is optional in this case. I'm not sure about its dosing but it's probably also underdosed.

Sorry to say this, but I think it’s best to euthanize her. In my experience When a fish stops eating it’s too far gone.

I've had fish stop eating and resume eating after whatever ailed them was cured.
 
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UnknownUser

Furan-2 is optional in this case
Since she’s dying anyway, I dosed the tank with the recommended amount of furan-2. I’m not sure I feel comfortable increasing the dose from the recommended
 
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AvalancheDave

Since she’s dying anyway, I dosed the tank with the recommended amount of furan-2. I’m not sure I feel comfortable increasing the dose from the recommended

People on the discus forums do it all the time. The doses in veterinary texts are based on studies and experience.

Seachem may have realized that it's too expensive to treat at the correct dose so they lowered it until it was below the amount their marketing told them people were willing to spend. Even if at that dosage there was only a slim chance it would work and it encouraged antibiotic resistance.
 
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UnknownUser

People on the discus forums do it all the time. The doses in veterinary texts are based on studies and experience.

Seachem may have realized that it's too expensive to treat at the correct dose so they lowered it until it was below the amount their marketing told them people were willing to spend. Even if at that dosage there was only a slim chance it would work and it encouraged antibiotic resistance.
What do you recommend for a dosage?
 
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UnknownUser

At least 10X the recommended dosage for Kanaplex.

I just did some math using the seachem’s website, my kanaplex bottle, the recommended kanamycin fish dosage from this link, and rough measurements.

1 g is 317 mg of medication.
Recommended dosage based on attached link: 500-750mg for 20 gallons
1 “level scoop” weighs roughly 125 mg

1 gram / 125 mg = 8 (level scoops per gram of med)
8 level scoops = 1 g = 317 mg of med
317 / 8 = about 40 mg of med per scoop

I’m treating a 10 gallon. So my recommended range is 250-375mg. My range would therefore be:

250 / 40 = 6.25 scoops (min)
375 / 40 = 9.375 scoops (max)

They recommend 2 scoops, but effective treatment seems to be 6-9 scoops.

All my links for this information listed.

(This one states the recommended dosage of kanamycin in fish)

Kanaplex™
(This one gives the mg of med in 1 g of product)


EDIT: interestingly enough, the first link also has a link to kanaplex itself. Here, it states 1 level scoop has 180 mg. This would put 2 scoops at 360 mg, which is a correct dose. But seachem itself says each scoop weighs 125 mg. I will email Seachem asking how many mg of med is in each level scoop.
 
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AvalancheDave

I just did some math using the seachem’s website, my kanaplex bottle, the recommended kanamycin fish dosage from this link, and rough measurements.

1 g is 317 mg of medication.
Recommended dosage based on attached link: 500-750mg for 20 gallons
1 “level scoop” weighs roughly 125 mg

1 gram / 125 mg = 8 (level scoops per gram of med)
8 level scoops = 1 g = 317 mg of med
317 / 8 = about 40 mg of med per scoop

I’m treating a 10 gallon. So my recommended range is 250-375mg. My range would therefore be:

250 / 40 = 6.25 scoops (min)
375 / 40 = 9.375 scoops (max)

They recommend 2 scoops, but effective treatment seems to be 6-9 scoops.

All my links for this information listed.


Kanaplex™
(This one gives the mg of med in 1 g of product)


EDIT: interestingly enough, the first link also has a link to kanaplex itself. Here, it states 1 level scoop has 180 mg. This would put 2 scoops at 360 mg, which is a correct dose. But seachem itself says each scoop weighs 125 mg. I will email Seachem asking how many mg of med is in each level scoop.


From Noga's Fish Disease and Diagnosis:


Kanamycin dosage.png


Kanaplex dosage.png
 
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UnknownUser

That's interesting. If I'm reading it right, I would need to add roughly 6 g of kanaplex to my 10 gallon per dose, right? So that'd be 6 grams per day with a 50% wc before each administration? My little bottle of seachem kanaplex only came with 5 grams! haha
 
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AvalancheDave

That's interesting. If I'm reading it right, I would need to add roughly 6 g of kanaplex to my 10 gallon per dose, right? So that'd be 6 grams per day with a 50% wc before each administration? My little bottle of seachem kanaplex only came with 5 grams! haha

6 grams for 3 days...but if ammonia gets out of control in the hospital tank and you have to control it by doing a water change before the 3 days are up you are throwing away some money.

Now imagine treating a 100 gal tank. You can see why Seachem would be tempted to lower the dosage since most people aren't not going to like hearing it will cost $28 per day to treat their tank.
 
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UnknownUser

6 grams for 3 days
Oh okay, I read it wrong then, so 2 grams a day. Not so bad for a 10 gal, yes a bigger tank is worse, but most people say to use a small tank for QT for that reason. IMO it's worse to market a product at a lower dose to make it cheaper, because it also makes it ineffective. If you want to sell, it has to work. Even if it's cheap. Melafix, Pimafix and the like are cheap, but useless, so no one recommends them

So just to update myself, Seachem replied and said the 125 mg / scoop is the amount of medication per scoop, not the weight. At AvalancheDave's recommended dose per the textbook (190-380 mg/gal) the range would be 15 scoops to 30 scoops every 3 days for 3 treatments, for effective treatment.
 
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